3059 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

acemaclace wrote...

Well for the actual gay people for morality in players I agree. (btw im straight) But I think gays (in my opinion) are offensive I mean sure at leats they are happy but what happens to the repopulation?

....

You're joking right? Tell me you're joking.

[Sarissan]

its the future, they cured gay in the military

[biddypocket]

[quote]Abriael_CG wrote...

Except right now some people are being shoehorned into a character they don't want to play, which I would imagine is rather annoying in a game that otherwise prides itself on choices.[/quote]

If one doesn't want to play a character because he's not gay, the problem is much deeper, and that person is quite shallow in his views.

[/quote]

dude...look at all of the others who are opposed to same-sex romances...who don't WANT to play as a  character because they might have the OPTION to pursue a same-sex romance....now that's shallow.

And God-forbid we get upset because in a game where literally everything about the characters is customizable, an opportunity for us gay gamers to FINALLY make the main character not-heterosexual, and it's taken away from us. That's kinda messed up.

[Eidolonn]

yhibiki wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...

I don't see any insult in her post. Unless you think that saying that this thread is spammy (and it is) is an insult, which it isn't.

Again, if you find opposing opinions "insulting", don't post on a discussion forums. Bioware offered you the group function so that you can gather all your friends and pat each other's back with no one daring to discuss. Otherwise, Blogspot or Wordpress are your ideal environment.

Is telling somebody to keep their opinions to themselves insulting? Yes it is.

"Hey, I think women deserve the same pay as men." "God, this again? Don't you feme****s ever let up?"
"I wish there were more positive representations of black people in the media." "It's just TV! Make your own movies if you care so much."

I don't find opposing opinions insulting if they're well-thought out and show respect. I find them insulting when they imply that minorities should shut up and keep to themselves.

Ah, such rage.  This is a GAME.  This is not a political forum.  This is not a gay rights activist site.  You have the option to play the game or not play the game.  If the game does not meet your satisfaction, in whatever manner, you are free to not play it.

I am not saying shut up.  I am saying that people have posted their complaints and/or suggestions.  Great, thank you very much.  But when you start taking it into a completely different spectrum (a "rights" issue), then it needs to be taken elsewhere.

[Abriael_CG]

yhibiki wrote...
"Hey, I think women deserve the same pay as men." "God, this again? Don't you feme****s ever let up?"

On a side note:
Women receiving the same pay as men is a right.
Playing a gay character in a videogame is not.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 02 février 2010 - 01:56 .

[ColJones]

I don't think problem here is that people are concerned about Bioware's resources. Honestly I'm picking up on some homophobes. All that would be required is a potential gay LI much like in DA O. The character doesn't need to be flaming gay, it's not like the whole game needs to be rewritten. Also @ acemaclace, keep those opinions to yourself. Discriminating against gays is just as bad as any other type of discrimination and just as morally wrong. Don't ever call a people or a culture you don't understand offensive. Btw I'm straight but I think you (in my opinion) are offensive.

[yhibiki]

Abriael_CG wrote...

yhibiki wrote...
"Hey, I think women deserve the same pay as men." "God, this again? Don't you feme****s ever let up?"

On a side note:
Women receiving the same pay as men is a right.
Playing a gay character in a videogame is not.

You're right, I used a bad analogy.

I've been following discussions RE: representations of minorities (and women, who aren't minorities) in media recently, and going from mostly well-thought out posts to these forums has been a bit of a "culture" shock, if you will.

I'm going to step out now, because I think actually playing ME2 is going to be more fun than this.

[Abriael_CG]

biddypocket wrote...
dude...look at all of the others who are opposed to same-sex romances...who don't WANT to play as a  character because they might have the OPTION to pursue a same-sex romance....now that's shallow.

I don't really waste time with complete idiots. They're no less stupid than the ones that make the ability of playing a gay character into a political matter of gay rights.

For many it's a much simpler matter. Mass Effect  has a reasonably good writing with quite good or at least decent characters across the table, and does well with the resources given.
1: we don't want to see resources diverted into making something that would only appeal a minority
2: we don't want writers that quite evidently don't feel confident in writing a believable and coherent gay character forced by vocal demands into putting in a badly written token gay character, that would only lessen the experience of everyone involved, including the ones that don't care for such an option.
3: we think that writers should be able to create the game according to their vision, not having to bend over twice to meet the demands of this or that activist group. The bendover attitude has been time and time again proved damaging through the history of gaming.

And God-forbid we get upset because in a game where literally everything about the characters is customizable, an opportunity for us gay gamers to FINALLY make the main character not-heterosexual, and it's taken away from us. That's kinda messed up.

LOTS of things are customizable. You can't be disabled, you can't lack an eye, you can't be a religious zaelot... I could go on for hours. There are relatively many customization options, but ALL customization options are impossible. Bioware chose the ones that best fit their ability to write them in a believable way and their budget. Demanding over and over again YOUR favourite option to be included in spite of whatever the developers might think/feel/be able to do about it is quite pretentious.

There are other games (some of which by Bioware themselves, even if it's other teams), that cater to YOUR favourite option. Be happy about that, others can't tell the same (for instance, how many games are there that feature disabled characters?).

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 02 février 2010 - 02:09 .

[biddypocket]

Abriael_CG wrote...

biddypocket wrote...
dude...look at all of the others who are opposed to same-sex romances...who don't WANT to play as a  character because they might have the OPTION to pursue a same-sex romance....now that's shallow.

I don't really waste time with complete idiots. They're no less stupid than the ones that make the ability of playing a gay character into a political matter of gay rights.

For many it's a much simpler matter. Mass Effect  has a reasonably good writing with quite good or at least decent characters across the table, and does well with the resources given.
1: we don't want to see resources diverted into making something that would only appeal a minority
2: we don't want writers that quite evidently don't feel confident in writing a believable and coherent gay character forced by vocal demands into putting in a badly written token gay character, that would only lessen the experience of everyone involved, including the ones that don't care for such an option.
3: we think that writers should be able to create the game according to their vision, not having to bend over twice to meet the demands of this or that activist group. The bendover attitude has been time and time again proved damaging through the history of gaming.

Resources are literally not an issue. The amount of game-space required to change some dialogue/voice overs and make them gender-appropriate would be more than negligible.

And God-forbid we get upset because in a game where literally everything about the characters is customizable, an opportunity for us gay gamers to FINALLY make the main character not-heterosexual, and it's taken away from us. That's kinda messed up.

LOTS of things are customizable. You can't be disabled, you can't lack an eye, you can't be a religious zaelot... I could go on for hours. There are relatively many customization options, but ALL customization options are impossible. Bioware chose the ones that best fit their ability to write them in a believable way and their budget. Demanding YOUR favourite option to be included in spite of whatever the developers might think/feel/be able to do about it is quite pretentious.

All of those points are completely, 100% irrelevant. Why? Because in game, the concept of disability or religion is never even touched upon as an option of customization. However, you ARE given the ability to engage in romantic relationships, just not male/male ones. That would be like including an option to pick a religion for your Shep, but purposefully leaving out Judaism.

If activist groups for the disabled or religious wanted to start threads about why those aspects aren't customizable, then although I wouldn't necessary support them, I would support their right to post topics about it and not troll their threads.

[Abriael_CG]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

...I doubt any soldier that was expected to be in combat would be ALLOWED to be disabled and/or be a religious zealot for obvious reasons there are physical and mental standards to serve (as long as there's not a draft usually).

let's not go there, because there still are many nations that ban homosexuals from military service too. But that's pretty sad and a risky political argument, so let's just not go there.

[Abriael_CG]

biddypocket wrote...
Resources are literally not an issue. The amount of game-space required to change some dialogue/voice overs and make them gender-appropriate would be more than negligible.

You obviously have no real experience in game development (not even indirect) or any collateral field (like voice acting).
Saying that the needed resources are negligible simply denotes that quite clearly.

All of those points are completely, 100% irrelevant. Why? Because in game, the concept of disability or religion is never even touched upon as an option of customization. However, you ARE given the ability to engage in romantic relationships, just not male/male ones. That would be like including an option to pick a religion for your Shep, but purposefully leaving out Judaism.

Not really. It's like making Shepard follow a  preset religion decided by the writers, which would definitely not anywhere strange or questionable.

[Abriael_CG]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...
Right because a sexual preference is the same thing as being physically unable to do something right. 

I'll let you research on that if you're interested. This is simply not the place to discuss a political topic, and that is a political topic. Wikipedia is a good place to start.

[ColJones]

It wouldn't require any resources... look at Zevran in DA O. Seriously I don't get what the **** the problem is here, you guys make it sound so complicated when it isn't. Look at Liara and fem shep in ME 1. Do you think that decreased the quality of the game? Also don't say that wasn't a lesbian relationship you can hide behind science fiction, but let us be honest here.

[Abriael_CG]

ColJones wrote...

It wouldn't require any resources... look at Zevran in DA O.

Zevran has some quite different dialogue when he flirts with women and men and different animations when he has sexual intercourse with women and men, You think that didn't require any resources? 
This without even mentioning the fact that to make him believable (and failing), Bioware turned him into a sex starved wacko that would hit on a tree. Many didn't really appreciate it and labeled it a negative aspect of the game.

Writing a belevable gay character is really not an easy task, and assuming that Bioware's writers would be able to just because some people demand it, is quite pretentious. 

Seriously I don't get what the **** the problem is here, you guys make it sound so complicated when it isn't. Look at Liara and fem shep in ME 1. Do you think that decreased the quality of the game? Also don't say that wasn't a lesbian relationship you can hide behind science fiction, but let us be honest here.

Liara was included because evidently the writers felt confident in being able to write a believable pansexual alien (which is definitely quite different than a bisexual human), and guess what, many people, me included, judged her a pretty crappy character. Honestly it's a good thing that she was excluded from ME2, given that she was completely flatlined.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 02 février 2010 - 02:29 .

[Xpardox91X]

 I can see why the male Shepard can't be gay, but... what about the female Shepard?

[biddypocket]

Xpardox91X wrote...

 I can see why the male Shepard can't be gay, but... what about the female Shepard?

Really? I don't.

[Endurance_117]

Anyone ever think that Miranda and Jacob are strait and don't want a gay relationship?



Why don't you guys go for Thane?

[Endurance_117]

^They do, you probably messed up somewhere, you can't just pick paragon actions anymore

[Endurance_117]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

^They do, you probably messed up somewhere, you can't just pick paragon actions anymore

I meant male gay option.

Thane is bi