3059 réponses à ce sujet

[Jimmy Fury]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Liara was included because evidently the writers felt confident in being able to write a believable pansexual alien (which is definitely quite different than a bisexual human), and guess what, many people, me included, judged her a pretty crappy character. Honestly it's a good thing that she was excluded from ME2, given that she was completely flatlined.

1: Liara may have been a pansexual alien, but femshep romancing her required writing a lesbian character's dialogue because, no matter Liara's gender, to be attracted to her one must, by default, be attracted to women.
Thus your "the writers weren't comfortable with same-sex relationships" idea goes out the window.

2: Your opinion of Liara's character is irrelivent to the topic being debated. But since you brought it up, using the word "many" might be a stretch. Look at the 500 threads about Liara (avoiding spoilers grrrr please move this to the spoiler thread so we can actually talk without getting this shut down again) many people like her.

3: The entire argument about resources is pointless. The past can not be changed therefore debating what could have been accomplishes nothing for either side of the debate. 
The only option now, and the one usually being requested (i'll not support those who are demanding it) is for it to be included in DLC or an expansion. This means the resrouces will already be in play. Voice actors will already be in the studio, animators will already be animating, programmers will already be programming. No new or additional resources would be required.

[jselene]

Oh, my.  A new thread.  :/  The last one was closed for bickering, so let's stay on the topic of the game, and avoid real-world topics, please!

Anyway, I support same-sex romance, and while I understand the 'Bioware's reluctant to include possibly controversial pairings' argument, I've never understood the 'it doesn't fit in with the universe!' one.  I mean, *Garrus* is an option.  He may be straight with his own species, but in cases of extreme xenophilia, that argument goes to lulz.  

"Oh, I'm sorry Shepard.  I can get past the fleshiness, the absence of head ridges... I can even get over the hair.  But the knowledge that you're a male of any sort, (despite your sexual dimorphism being different from ours, being mammalian and all) disqualifies you from getting my non-attraction-based affection."   Bwuh?

I'd imagine that human/alien relationships are far more scandalous in the future than human/human same-sex ones, simply by the logic that, when presented with something MORE "Other" than any human, yada yada (I'm sure you've heard this before...), it'll unify humanity and decrease hostility towards humans not like 'you'.

Also: I want maleShep/Thane, but am pretty sure final-release Thane is not bi.  If he is...I'll never have to post on these threads again.  :innocent:  But I'm pretty sure he's not.  Like...99.99991%.  So yeah.  

[Monstruo696]

Nah, I don't need another incident like Zevran.



I think I'm having a bro-to-bro conversation and suddenly he starts hitting on me. No, I don't think so.

[Endurance_117]

must have be a glitch



It said I want you Thane



I was like WTF

[Monstruo696]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

Monstruo696 wrote...

Nah, I don't need another incident like Zevran.

I think I'm having a bro-to-bro conversation and suddenly he starts hitting on me. No, I don't think so.

Am I the only one who told him to stop at the first convo and he did?  Leliana is the one who didn't seem to get the bloody message. <_< "We're friends!" "Oh totally" *10 minutes later* "OMG you're sleeping with Alistair! You told me there was nothing between you! We laid with each other under the stars!" "Lolwut?:huh:"

Like what did you do when a female LI started hitting on you and you wanted her to stop?

Yeah, but telling him to stop gave me like a "ZEVRAN DISAPPROVES (-20)" or something like that.

[Grumpiergoat]

Shepard obviously shouldn't be gay. Big Gorram Action Heroes aren't gay.



Oh, they aren't women, either. Hopefully that'll be eliminated in the next game.



Oh, and please. Alien love? That's disgusting. Shepard would never do that. It's just gross. It's like rutting with animals. Let's eliminate that garbage from the next game.



Oh, and heck. Ashley? Subject Zero? They're just not, ah...curvy enough. Shep's a real man. Only people built like Miranda will do. Or human women built like Samara. So all those people opposed to homosexual relationships who support romancing Tali, Jack, Liara...anyone really other than Miranda? You're wrong and should feel bad about yourself, as Shepard clearly shouldn't be that type of guy.



Oh, but wait. That's right. Mass Effect is one-part RPG and just like someone can play an alien-hating xenophile who only enjoys the company of Miranda...or who's a woman...or who doesn't get involved with romance whatsoever...or whatever...well, someone should be able to play a homosexual Shepard, too.

[Endurance_117]

Male Shepard - I went to just focus on your son or something like that. It was really weird. He was confessing something about his son.

[Arik7]

Abriael_CG wrote...

ColJones wrote...

It wouldn't require any resources... look at Zevran in DA O.

Zevran has some quite different dialogue when he flirts with women and men and different animations when he has sexual intercourse with women and men, You think that didn't require any resources? 

Except for a few gender specific phrases, such as "handsome man" / "beautiful woman", Zevran's dialog is almost exactly the same for both genders.     The game has dozens of thousands of animations for multiple story lines  In that context, the gay sex animation is a very minor addition.     In ME1, the M/M lines were already recorded and on the disk....

This without even mentioning the fact that to make him believable (and failing), Bioware turned him into a sex starved wacko that would hit on a tree. Many didn't really appreciate it and labeled it a negative aspect of the game.

Such people do exist, you know....

Writing a belevable gay character is really not an easy task, and assuming that Bioware's writers would be able to just because some people demand it, is quite pretentious. 

What would make a gay character believable in your eyes?  Does he have to be effeminate and embody all the other negative stereotypes of gay men?    The writers should not be writing a "gay character", but rather a character, who happens to be gay or bisexual.  While sexual orientation is a part of someone's identity, it does not necessarily affect their personality.   I wouldn't have problems believing that Alistair or Kaidan is gay/bisexual..... 

Modifié par Arik7, 02 février 2010 - 03:00 .

[Arik7]

Btw, if all the same-sex romance threads were not shut down for little or no reason, on a daily basis , our thread would probably eclipse the Tali/Garrus threads.

[Abriael_CG]

Arik7 wrote...
Except for a few gender specific phrases, such
as "handsome man" / "beautiful woman", Zevran's dialog is almost
exactly the same for both genders.  

Actually he rambles quite a bit on the fact that you might or might not, as a male, find his attraction unpleasant and all that. Maybe you didn't explore all the dialogue options, but there are quite a lot that don't appear if you're female.

Arik7 wrote...
What would make a gay character believable in your eyes?  Does he have to be effeminate and embody all the other negative stereotypes of gay men?

That would be exactly what would make him like all the tons of token gay characters you see in mainstream media, and that's exactly what a writer that doesn't really know how to write a believable gay character would end producing.
And that's exactly what Zevran is. A silly walking stereotype.

Evidently not all writers are able to write what you describe under the quoted lines (even if you oversimplified quite a lot). A romance (any romance) needs depth, and just using the same standard lines doesn't cut it. It's quite possible that the mass effect writers don't feel up to the task. In that case, why should they do it anyway?

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 02 février 2010 - 03:10 .

[Ibby1kanobi]

Shepard isn't gay. However, I've been told numerous times that I'm homophobic for stating that gays have a certain "look". Therefore, just role-play him as a gay in your head....and role-play that none of the doods on the ship are gay....therefore he can't find love during his mission.



Then turn off your computer, go outside, and live your gay little life to the fullest.

[RohanDaKitty]

This is a ridiculous discussion.

I don't see how anyone can make demands or requests to include something in someone elses work. It's BioWares project. BioWares game. They wish to express themselves in a certain way or form with the Mass Effect universe.

So they don't choose male homosexual couplings? It's their game and they can do or NOT DO, what ever they please.

If anyone is reading some kind of harsh, vindictive vibe from BioWare because of the lack of a gay male romance, I think they need to calm down. I don't see anything of this nature in the Mass Effect universe. I think BioWare have been really outgoing with their depiction of sexuality in other sapient species.

I'm a gay male (Does the word "Kitty" in my user name give it away? ) and I think I'm more offended by the people here who have a feeling of entitlement of such an option in someone else work of art or fiction.

Equlaity in society and under the law.

But this is a Video Game. Someone elses video game. Lets leave the Terminus Systems and Citadel Space for a moment and return to Earth. In 2010.

Gay Male Romance IRL > Shepared smooching on Garrus/Thane/Legion/Joker/Illusive Man/Wrex/Udina etc.

[Soffishy]

 No gay people please. Please.

[biddypocket]

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

Shepard isn't gay. However, I've been told numerous times that I'm homophobic for stating that gays have a certain "look". Therefore, just role-play him as a gay in your head....and role-play that none of the doods on the ship are gay....therefore he can't find love during his mission.

Then turn off your computer, go outside, and live your gay little life to the fullest.

I wouldn't say it makes you homophobic, that's a bit much. But it does show that you have a set stereotype about homosexuality that simply isn't true....there are a lot of men that you've met in your life that you probably have no idea are gay, but who are. Likewise, I've met quite a few men in my life who I have trouble believing are straight :innocent:.

And the whole point of this is to question why the devs didn't just include the option in one of the characters they were creating, will they include it in future DLC, and if they introduce new characters in ME3, which certainly they will, why can't one of them be gay? We're simply striking up the discussion, making it known.

And thank you, I will life my gay little life to the fullest.

[Ibby1kanobi]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

Shepard isn't gay. However, I've been told numerous times that I'm homophobic for stating that gays have a certain "look". Therefore, just role-play him as a gay in your head....and role-play that none of the doods on the ship are gay....therefore he can't find love during his mission.

Then turn off your computer, go outside, and live your gay little life to the fullest.

...

Right so all straight men and women have a look too?

If that's the case can you tell me what it is? It would be useful so my friends know who not to hit on.

I think you took away the wrong overall message from my post.

I'm trying to press upon the OP of living his gay life to the fullest in real life. Not through a game. Bioware already said no gays or gay relationships in their game. That's what they want. They are making the game. Stop crying, and stop making these useless threads.

[Dracotamer]

It's Bioware's character and story. If they choose to make him straight then that's is their choice.

[Lmaoboat]

I wonder if anybody actually believes they wrote in the lesbian romances for any other reason than that all guys love girl-on-girl action.

[Ibby1kanobi]

biddypocket wrote...

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

Shepard isn't gay. However, I've been told numerous times that I'm homophobic for stating that gays have a certain "look". Therefore, just role-play him as a gay in your head....and role-play that none of the doods on the ship are gay....therefore he can't find love during his mission.

Then turn off your computer, go outside, and live your gay little life to the fullest.

And thank you, I will life my gay little life to the fullest.

Finally. You got the overall message from my post! Yay!

[biddypocket]

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

biddypocket wrote...

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

Shepard isn't gay. However, I've been told numerous times that I'm homophobic for stating that gays have a certain "look". Therefore, just role-play him as a gay in your head....and role-play that none of the doods on the ship are gay....therefore he can't find love during his mission.

Then turn off your computer, go outside, and live your gay little life to the fullest.

And thank you, I will life my gay little life to the fullest.

Finally. You got the overall message from my post! Yay!

Well, actually...I'm sitting here doing homework....well....avoiding homework, and listening to Mahler....so I guess It's not so fulfilling .