3059 réponses à ce sujet

[Evil Johnny 666]

Arik7 wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Because some options wouldn't be possible. In ME2, you can decide whether or not to cheat on your ME1 love interest and either way there has to be a history with the character. Even if a femshep could romance Ashley, there would be no "history" available, thus limiting the choices for same sex romances, something that I think would feel wrong in ME3.

The romance from ME1 does not exist for all the players who started ME2 fresh.   For them, Ashley/Kaidan just shakes their hand in the "cannon" story.   Many, perhaps most people, will not go through the romance trilogy anyway.    Moreover, Tali and Garrus showed absolutely no signs of attraction to Shepard in ME1, yet they are LIs in ME2.   Bioware can change existing characters or add new ones.   It's better late than never for same-sex romance options in the ME games.

True, but since in a trilogy your supposed to experience each part - and in order - there is obviously a way to have the most options possible, and it is playing through all games which I'm sure most of us in this forum have. So, since there is a way to have the maximum options possible, nothing undo my point, if you make everything to have the most options, everyone should have the same options, otherwise it would be wrong. You could be all about people not having played the first are disadvantaged, thing is still, ME2 is meant to be played after ME1 since it's a direct sequel that enables you to use saved games.

[Deviija]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Because some options wouldn't be possible. In ME2, you can decide whether or not to cheat on your ME1 love interest and either way there has to be a history with the character. Even if a femshep could romance Ashley, there would be no "history" available, thus limiting the choices for same sex romances, something that I think would feel wrong in ME3.

I'm not sure I understand your logic, here.  Romances are an OPTIONAL part of the game.  No one HAD to romance anyone in ME1, they could have stayed single (like one of my DudeSheps did).  This makes them finding a romance in ME2 not cheating at all but a new relationship.  Also, some people (like me again with one of my DudeSheps) did not romance anyone in ME2 either.  So adding new romances in ME3, particularly a m/m one, would not be affected at all.  

Not to mention that Devs have to plan on people picking up ME3 without ever having played ME1 and ME2.  They would never force romances onto your character to use as a 'history.'  That'd be dictating your story.  

[Arik7]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...
True, but since in a trilogy your supposed to experience each part - and in order - there is obviously a way to have the most options possible, and it is playing through all games which I'm sure most of us in this forum have. So, since there is a way to have the maximum options possible, nothing undo my point, if you make everything to have the most options, everyone should have the same options, otherwise it would be wrong. You could be all about people not having played the first are disadvantaged, thing is still, ME2 is meant to be played after ME1 since it's a direct sequel that enables you to use saved games.

What is your point exactly?  If gay males did not have any romance options in ME1 and ME2, it would only be "fair" to exlude them from ME3???

[Lightice_av]

All the parts of the trilogy can also function as individual units. It would make just as much sense to say that ME2 shouldn't have had any new romance options because the writers want the romance subplot to extend throughout the entire trilogy. Yet surprise, surprise, ME2 had more than ME1. Those who only get into the ball in ME3 also deserve to have options.



You can be sure that new options will become available in ME3, as well.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Arik7 wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...
True, but since in a trilogy your supposed to experience each part - and in order - there is obviously a way to have the most options possible, and it is playing through all games which I'm sure most of us in this forum have. So, since there is a way to have the maximum options possible, nothing undo my point, if you make everything to have the most options, everyone should have the same options, otherwise it would be wrong. You could be all about people not having played the first are disadvantaged, thing is still, ME2 is meant to be played after ME1 since it's a direct sequel that enables you to use saved games.

What is your point exactly?  If gay males did not have any romance options in ME1 and ME2, it would only be "fair" to exlude them from ME3???

I'm not saying "fair" but logical. Why change design decision that has been made in ME1 and didn't change in ME2?

And to answer the above poster, Casey did say you can cheat on your ME1 LI in ME2 and thus affecting ME3. And if you didn't cheat your LI, you'll still se her/him in ME3. Putting m/m or f/f relationships in ME3 would exclude those possibilities and in a design point of view, I think it is VERY likely for Bioware to have dropped that idea from the get-go. There's no romance with Kaiden or Ashley in ME2 just because they have to survive for ME3 and your LI, so that can't happen if Shepard suddenly turns gay.

[Lightice_av]

Putting m/m or f/f relationships in ME3 would exclude those possibilities and in a design point of view

Hardly. First, no-one forces you to have an LI in either ME1 or ME2 - in fact, it's the default choice that you don't have one. Hence, the cheating subplot is only viable for those who played both earlier parts of the trilogy and did play a romance subplot in both - most certainly not all of the playerbase. There most certainly will be options for those who didn't play romance subplots in the earlier games, or didn't play them at all. This is a fact that doesn't just touch the same-sex interested playerbase.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Lightice_av wrote...

Putting m/m or f/f relationships in ME3 would exclude those possibilities and in a design point of view

Hardly. First, no-one forces you to have an LI in either ME1 or ME2 - in fact, it's the default choice that you don't have one. Hence, the cheating subplot is only viable for those who played both earlier parts of the trilogy and did play a romance subplot in both - most certainly not all of the playerbase. There most certainly will be options for those who didn't play romance subplots in the earlier games, or didn't play them at all. This is a fact that doesn't just touch the same-sex interested playerbase.

Did you read what I wrote? Of course you're not obliged, but you have that choice, since you have that choice, it is only logical you should have it if it is possible to have a same sex relashionship, but if there is one in ME3, the possibilities of cheating or not your LI from ME1 would no be possible. Look, I don't care if there is a gay romance thing, I'm just certain it won't happen and you are only dreaming.

[Lightice_av]

Did you read what I wrote? Of course you're not obliged, but you have that choice, since you have that choice, it is only logical you should have it if it is possible to have a same sex relashionship, but if there is one in ME3, the possibilities of cheating or not your LI from ME1 would no be possible.

I read but I don't comprehend your logic. Why exactly would cheating on your LI from ME1 be not possible because of a gay romance option? Does not compute. Logic error. Reboot!

[Arik7]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

Putting m/m or f/f relationships in ME3 would exclude those possibilities and in a design point of view

Hardly. First, no-one forces you to have an LI in either ME1 or ME2 - in fact, it's the default choice that you don't have one. Hence, the cheating subplot is only viable for those who played both earlier parts of the trilogy and did play a romance subplot in both - most certainly not all of the playerbase. There most certainly will be options for those who didn't play romance subplots in the earlier games, or didn't play them at all. This is a fact that doesn't just touch the same-sex interested playerbase.

Did you read what I wrote? Of course you're not obliged, but you have that choice, since you have that choice, it is only logical you should have it if it is possible to have a same sex relashionship, but if there is one in ME3, the possibilities of cheating or not your LI from ME1 would no be possible. Look, I don't care if there is a gay romance thing, I'm just certain it won't happen and you are only dreaming.

So the devs will not include m/m romance in ME3 because then your Shepard cannot possibly cheat on an ME1 character???  That's a very strange argument.
But following your "logic", a bisexual Shepard could cheat on Ashley/Liara with a male crew member, right?

Anyway, most BW games contain some sort of same-sex interaction, including the ME games with FemShep/Liara, FemShep/Kelly, FemShep/Morinth.   It's not that far fetched for developers to inlude a same-sex romance option in ME3.  

Modifié par Arik7, 06 février 2010 - 10:20 .

[Jimmy Fury]

I get what Johnny is saying to a degree. There's just one problem with it...

Fem.Shep.

Fem.Shep *could* be a lesbian in ME1 (we will NOT be getting into the fact that Asari are female in gender if not sex and that to be attracted to an Asari one MUST be attracted to women. I've covered it in explicit detail and it's no longer a topic for debate as far as I'm concerned.).

Yet Fem.Shep can't have a lesbian relationship in ME2.

Therefore players who played fem.shep as a Lesbian in 1, and did not suddenly become bisexual in 2, will also NOT experience the consiquences of cheating on Liara.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Arik7 wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

Putting m/m or f/f relationships in ME3 would exclude those possibilities and in a design point of view

Hardly. First, no-one forces you to have an LI in either ME1 or ME2 - in fact, it's the default choice that you don't have one. Hence, the cheating subplot is only viable for those who played both earlier parts of the trilogy and did play a romance subplot in both - most certainly not all of the playerbase. There most certainly will be options for those who didn't play romance subplots in the earlier games, or didn't play them at all. This is a fact that doesn't just touch the same-sex interested playerbase.

Did you read what I wrote? Of course you're not obliged, but you have that choice, since you have that choice, it is only logical you should have it if it is possible to have a same sex relashionship, but if there is one in ME3, the possibilities of cheating or not your LI from ME1 would no be possible. Look, I don't care if there is a gay romance thing, I'm just certain it won't happen and you are only dreaming.

So the devs will not include m/m romance in ME3 because then your Shepard cannot possibly cheat on an ME1 character???  That's a very strange argument.
But following your "logic", a bisexual Shepard could cheat on Ashley/Liara with a male crew member, right?

Anyway, most BW games contain some sort of same-sex interaction, including the ME games with FemShep/Liara, FemShep/Kelly, FemShep/Morinth.   It's not that far fetched for developers to inlude a same-sex romance option in ME3.  

That's not my argument, that's an example to support my argument which is that if there is same ex romance in ME3, in the ME trilogy, gay Shepards will have a lot less romance options than straight ones. A straight one will be able to cheat or not their LI in ME2 (if they did in fact made throught the romance subplot) which will have effects in ME3. A gay Shep in the other hand, will only be able to date a guy/female in the third installment thus unable to go through the same Shepard customization of a straight one as you will only be able to start a new relationship instead of pursuing an already existant one or ending one. That would be a flaw in the design of the trilogy in itself, something that was probably considered in making the first Mass Effect and the idea probably went out by the window and now that the choice has been made, it's all in stone. At least that's what I think.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

I get what Johnny is saying to a degree. There's just one problem with it...
Fem.Shep.
Fem.Shep *could* be a lesbian in ME1 (we will NOT be getting into the fact that Asari are female in gender if not sex and that to be attracted to an Asari one MUST be attracted to women. I've covered it in explicit detail and it's no longer a topic for debate as far as I'm concerned.).
Yet Fem.Shep can't have a lesbian relationship in ME2.
Therefore players who played fem.shep as a Lesbian in 1, and did not suddenly become bisexual in 2, will also NOT experience the consiquences of cheating on Liara.

Well Casey said there were no lesbian romance because of the Asari being asexual, but yeah, that's pretty questionable. I think if there is one same sex romance, the only one available in M3 would be a fem shep with Liara.

[ABCoLD]

Evil Johnny 666-

You can't argue that a design choice in the first game limits you in the second and third game, as by that logic you couldn't have a Salarian scientist with you in the second.

You can't argue that it's 'unfair' to place same sex relationships in the third game because it would mess up existing romances, as you have a chance to royally mess them up in the second already.



Nothing in the logical rules of design forbids Bioware from including them in the third game or as an optional DLC in the second, it's just a question of if they choose to do so.

[ReDSH1FT]

http://social.biowar...index/1022646/1



Redirect

[Lightice_av]

A gay Shep in the other hand, will only be able to date a guy/female in the third installment thus unable to go through the same Shepard customization of a straight one as you will only be able to start a new relationship instead of pursuing an already existant one or ending one.

So you're arguing that since gay Shepard can't be as widely customizable as straight one, the option shouldn't exist at all? Still doesn't compute. It's clear from the get go that same-sex romances won't get the same level of attention as their straight counterparts because they're indeed the minority. But to exclude the option entirely from the entire trilogy would be a serious mistake as well.
And you're still claiming that F/F was not an option in ME1? The option exists, no reason why its counterpart shouldn't follow.

Nothing is set in the stone in a project of this magnitude; without flexibility big media projects are invariably doomed.

Well Casey said there were no lesbian romance because of the Asari being asexual, but yeah, that's pretty questionable.

The salarians are asexual. Asexual means "lacks sexual drive". Most definately not the case with the asari. And the asari are women in every way that counts; anyone arguing otherwise is just making a joke of themselves.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 06 février 2010 - 10:48 .

[Bryy_Miller]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

http://social.biowar...index/1022646/1

Redirect

Don't troll, please. I understand that you like your "NO GAYS IN ME3 LOL" thread, but you are not the smartest guy in the room.

[ABCoLD]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

That's not my argument, that's an example to support my argument which is that if there is same ex romance in ME3, in the ME trilogy, gay Shepards will have a lot less romance options than straight ones. A straight one will be able to cheat or not their LI in ME2 (if they did in fact made throught the romance subplot) which will have effects in ME3. A gay Shep in the other hand, will only be able to date a guy/female in the third installment thus unable to go through the same Shepard customization of a straight one as you will only be able to start a new relationship instead of pursuing an already existant one or ending one. That would be a flaw in the design of the trilogy in itself, something that was probably considered in making the first Mass Effect and the idea probably went out by the window and now that the choice has been made, it's all in stone. At least that's what I think.

Bolded for truth.  Italics for supposition. You can think that, but that doesn't make it the truth. 

[Arik7]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

http://social.biowar...index/1022646/1

Redirect

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Modifié par Arik7, 06 février 2010 - 10:49 .

[Lightice_av]

DON'T FEED THE TROL!

You're feeding him just by responding to him. Leave it alone.

[SethSteiner]

Yepp ignore the time traveller.

[Evil Johnny 666]

ABCoLD wrote...

Evil Johnny 666-
You can't argue that a design choice in the first game limits you in the second and third game, as by that logic you couldn't have a Salarian scientist with you in the second.
You can't argue that it's 'unfair' to place same sex relationships in the third game because it would mess up existing romances, as you have a chance to royally mess them up in the second already.

Nothing in the logical rules of design forbids Bioware from including them in the third game or as an optional DLC in the second, it's just a question of if they choose to do so.

Your first argument makes no sense at all. The Salarian wasn't in ME1 period, what I'm saying, is that if there are m/m relations in ME3, that would mean gay Shepards to have way less character customization than straight ones. Same for the second, in one of my earlier post I already said that it wasn't about fairness but logic which is quite different. I'm not saying it would mess up romances, I was only saying that a gay Shep would have less possibilities, something that can't be changed as you would need to have a gay shep save for ME1.

I never said they are forbidden, only that it is very unlikely as it was probably a design choice made prior the launch of ME that was probably made for the trilogy as well as it was planned for a trilogy. Why change ideas for the last one? That just wouldn't make any sense, it's like: "We didn't allow Shepard to be gay in ME1 and ME2 but for some reason we thought he/she could turn up gay in the third". And like I said, it would limit their options and as the Mass Effect games is all about making YOUR Shepard, even if gay Sheps would only be "fair" that would still mean they would be less customizable than straight ones. And lastly, they just can't do a "Gay Shepard DLC package" that's just nuts.

[ABCoLD]

I can't understand how adding options would limit their options, that part of your 'logic' I don't get.



But you're more than entitled to your opinion, as long as you realize that it's an opinion and not cold hard fact.

[Endurance_117]

lol at people calling him a troll.

[sw33ts]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...

Evil Johnny 666-
You can't argue that a design choice in the first game limits you in the second and third game, as by that logic you couldn't have a Salarian scientist with you in the second.
You can't argue that it's 'unfair' to place same sex relationships in the third game because it would mess up existing romances, as you have a chance to royally mess them up in the second already.

Nothing in the logical rules of design forbids Bioware from including them in the third game or as an optional DLC in the second, it's just a question of if they choose to do so.

Your first argument makes no sense at all. The Salarian wasn't in ME1 period, what I'm saying, is that if there are m/m relations in ME3, that would mean gay Shepards to have way less character customization than straight ones. Same for the second, in one of my earlier post I already said that it wasn't about fairness but logic which is quite different. I'm not saying it would mess up romances, I was only saying that a gay Shep would have less possibilities, something that can't be changed as you would need to have a gay shep save for ME1.

I never said they are forbidden, only that it is very unlikely as it was probably a design choice made prior the launch of ME that was probably made for the trilogy as well as it was planned for a trilogy. Why change ideas for the last one? That just wouldn't make any sense, it's like: "We didn't allow Shepard to be gay in ME1 and ME2 but for some reason we thought he/she could turn up gay in the third". And like I said, it would limit their options and as the Mass Effect games is all about making YOUR Shepard, even if gay Sheps would only be "fair" that would still mean they would be less customizable than straight ones. And lastly, they just can't do a "Gay Shepard DLC package" that's just nuts.

O_o

Why would it be nuts?  How would your shepard suddenly be gay if all this time he's been gay not romancing anyone up until a gay male intrested came along?  It's not like if you suddenly find yourself in a gay bar you're all of a sudden gay.  Just like playing a game with no gay males it doesn't suddenly make you straight.  I don't see your point.  At all.

Even if I don't import I have NO LI to cheat on...so your point just isn't making sense to me with the whole then they would have nothing to the 3rd game.

Modifié par sw33ts, 06 février 2010 - 11:08 .