3059 réponses à ce sujet

[Sporothrix]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Liara isnt a female, she is an Asari. They can mate with ANY species, ANY gender.

Asari are monogendered, all female species.
But that doesn't matter here, we're talking about Shepard. A woman, who's in a relationship with Asari, can't be straight, cause Asari are basically women with skin painted in blue, at least they look so (and sounds, and acts), and sexual orientation attraction is based mostly on visual clues.

[Cluck Norris]

90% of the internet is porn. Some of them must be male on male. Take a break from Mass Effect2, watch your porn, clean up, and go back to playing Mass Effect 2.



There. Problem solved.

[Traumacrazy]

Cluck Norris wrote...

90% of the internet is porn. Some of them must be male on male. Take a break from Mass Effect2, watch your porn, clean up, and go back to playing Mass Effect 2.

There. Problem solved.

is that your routine

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Cluck Norris wrote...

90% of the internet is porn. Some of them must be male on male. Take a break from Mass Effect2, watch your porn, clean up, and go back to playing Mass Effect 2.

There. Problem solved.

porn isn't romance.

[Traumacrazy]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Cluck Norris wrote...

90% of the internet is porn. Some of them must be male on male. Take a break from Mass Effect2, watch your porn, clean up, and go back to playing Mass Effect 2.

There. Problem solved.

porn isn't romance.

QFT

[Lightice_av]

Take a break from Mass Effect2, watch your porn, clean up, and go back to playing Mass Effect 2.

Cute, except that people aren't looking sex from video games. They want to have a more in-depth character experience through a romance subplot.

Liara isnt a female, she is an Asari.

There's still someone who believes that? The sky is also green. I know it because some smart guy told me, and smart people are always right.

[hycer]

Kosmiker wrote...
Agreed. I just think this all issue with not having a gay romance option is an over reaction.. people are actually arguing/discussing more about this "gay" issue than about other stuff that I feel are more important right now.

Since I don't have much to add to this thread, I'll stfu for now.

The same people who discuss about gay romance might as well discuss about other issues in other threads.  Plus, people want more RPG elements or romance choices because they are not satisfied with what ME 2 provides, but that doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.  To me, I am ok with ME 2 except for the lack of inventory system and same sex romance, therefore I am here, discussing gay romance.  I see you list RPG element as top priority, I agree because to me, adding gay romances also enriches RPG aspect of the game.

[JamesMoriarty123]

I will repeat once more, my last post here.

Liara = GENETICALLY monogender, PHENOTYPICALLY female.



Learn the difference between Genotype and Phenotype, and you're good to go.

[hycer]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

I will repeat once more, my last post here.
Liara = GENETICALLY monogender, PHENOTYPICALLY female.

Learn the difference between Genotype and Phenotype, and you're good to go.

Okay bye bye~~

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice.

Interesting.  I think what BioWare means by Shepard being a more "well-defined" character actually does make sense.  In every RPG, there has to be some context and background for the character, otherwise it's just a free-for-all.  DA:O's origin stories, while argued by some to be too restrictive, really do offer opportunities to play any kind of character under the sun.  While the origin story does define the character, between the six origin stories, four romance options (two of whom are bisexual), lack of a morality meter, and hundreds of iterations in how the endgame (not just the lives and deaths of companions, but the actual world-changing events of the endgame and epilogue) can turn out, Dragon Age is a less restrictive venue than Mass Effect.

In Mass Effect, you play Commander Shepard, who is fully voiced unlike DA:O's silent protagonist.  Sure, you can pick the first name, but you might as well be called Shepard Shepard for all it matters in-game.  Shepard is a 29 year old N7 Alliance Commander, decorated and well-respected, en-route to becoming the first human Spectre aboard the SSV Normandy.  Mass Effect contains significantly less dialogue than DA:O, and the two Mass Effect games combined clock in at around the same time as one DA:O playthrough--and that's being generous to Mass Effect.  I think Dr. Muzyka does have a valid point here: Mass Effect and Dragon Age, though both fall loosely into the RPG category, are fundamentally different "venues" if you will.

Do I think that has any bearing on same-sex romances?  Yes and no.  Yes in that different venue will attract different players, and the attitudes of the player base do impact the decisions of the devs.  I doubt the Dragon Age forums would get nearly the kind of trolls we get here if a discussion opens up about expanding same-sex options in expansions or sequels to DA.  No in that dangnabbit they already RECORDED those lines for same-sex romance, in both games!  Why go through the trouble of recording the lines if you won't use them?  The idea of using them "for comparison" holds no water--there are hours more dialogue that overlap between Female and Male Shepard, so why not use those "for comparison"?  In addition, there are romances like Garrus and Tali's where gender (and indeed species in Garrus's case) seem to matter little in the romances.  What matters is Shepard, and Shepard is still Shepard whether male or female.

</wall o' text> 

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Kordaris wrote...

misoretu9 wrote...
I don't see any difference between DAO character and Shepard

Different races to choose, mutliple diverse background history.Shepard already is pre-defined as part of System military with only partial choice as to military service events and birthplace.

The same choices that the female Shepard has for an ME background yet she can romance FEMALE. Liara looks like a woman therefore to SHEPARD as a human female romancing a female-looking alien is a lesbian romance. And Kelly in ME2 swings both ways.

Now, Male Shepard has no option of a male romance (like I said before and seems to be ignored).

They give more care to the "set back ground" excuse when it comes to the male Shepard but for the female that is thrown out the window. Its BS.

[Lightice_av]

Different races to choose, mutliple diverse background history.Shepard already is pre-defined as part of System military with only partial choice as to military service events and birthplace.

True, but there are many predetermined parts in the Warden's backgrounds, as well. You can't decide what kind of family you have, if any, or how you decide to become a Grey Warden. The story decides these factors for you depending on the origin-story that you pick. There's definately a wider variety of choices in Dragon Age, but it's no use pretending that it doesn't follow predetermined routes, as well.

[BLAHBLUE2001]

Arik7 wrote...

BLAHBLUE2001 wrote...

I don't put much into what the IGN article stated. As many have already stated and we know through playing ME1 and ME2 Shepard’s very origins can be chosen by us the player even down to his/her race, gender, how he/she talks to others, etc. So how pre-defined are they really?

First Casey Hudson comes out and says that FemShep/Liara relationship is not f/f, and now Muzika tells us their customizable Shepard is somehow a "defined" character, but only if you are male, and only for sexuality....  Bizarre and offensive....

Exactly... its ridiculous.
I'm not even going to go into the whole Liara/FemShep not being gay
thing. 

[DaeJi]

Well, what that article shows is that the issue is being noticed. That is something, and Ray's words are strangely non-answer-y.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Kordaris wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

misoretu9 wrote...
I don't see any difference between DAO character and Shepard

Different races to choose, mutliple diverse background history.Shepard already is pre-defined as part of System military with only partial choice as to military service events and birthplace.

The same choices that the female Shepard has for an ME background yet she can romance FEMALE. Liara looks like a woman therefore to SHEPARD as a human female romancing a female-looking alien is a lesbian romance. And Kelly in ME2 swings both ways.

Now, Male Shepard has no option of a male romance (like I said before and seems to be ignored).

They give more care to the "set back ground" excuse when it comes to the male Shepard but for the female that is thrown out the window. Its BS.

 Women are quite expected by our  mainstream pop culture to have bisexual tendencies and it doesn't  diminish their imagery as being gay does to a male person. In fact I would place my bets that a bisexual women increases her image as strong character due to her strong sexuality and ability to seduce women.
Sorry, but women and men are not treated equally in culture. It's one of the places where women actually have better then men in terms of social position.

I'd have to agree with you there. Sad but true. Manly romance is scary to the mainstream unless in the form of the terrible movie that is Brokeback Mountain - boring, slow and depressing.

[Jimmy Fury]

Lightice_av wrote...

Different races to choose, mutliple diverse background history.Shepard already is pre-defined as part of System military with only partial choice as to military service events and birthplace.

True, but there are many predetermined parts in the Warden's backgrounds, as well. You can't decide what kind of family you have, if any, or how you decide to become a Grey Warden. The story decides these factors for you depending on the origin-story that you pick. There's definately a wider variety of choices in Dragon Age, but it's no use pretending that it doesn't follow predetermined routes, as well.

Exactly. In ME the history and service record choices show how you got to the alliance. In DA the race and origin quest show how you got to the Wardens. It's literally the exact same thing. All roads lead to Alliance/Warden. the only difference is that you get to play it out in DA and you just click a box in ME. Functionally they are the exact same thing.

[ABCoLD]

DaeJi wrote...

Well, what that article shows is that the issue is being noticed. That is something, and Ray's words are strangely non-answer-y.

Some managers are great at not answering your question while telling you exactly what they're thinking.  This way they can yell at you for not doing what they said, and if it's wrong, yelling at you for doing something they didn't tell you to do.

Ray seems to have the "here's how it is, even if I'm not saying this is how it is" thing down.

Modifié par ABCoLD, 07 février 2010 - 07:33 .

[Lightice_av]

Women are quite expected by our mainstream pop culture to have bisexual tendencies and it doesn't diminish their imagery as being gay does to a male person.

I wouldn't say expected. Maybe slightly less stigmatized. But really, gay characters are making a breakthrough in scifi, at the moment. Look at omnisexual Captain Jack Harkness from Torchwood, who saves the world about once a year, and helps the Doctor to save the universe in a couple of occasions. Look at Sam Adama in Caprica, a badass gangster who happens to be married to a man.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Lightice_av wrote...

Women are quite expected by our mainstream pop culture to have bisexual tendencies and it doesn't diminish their imagery as being gay does to a male person.

I wouldn't say expected. Maybe slightly less stigmatized. But really, gay characters are making a breakthrough in scifi, at the moment. Look at omnisexual Captain Jack Harkness from Torchwood, who saves the world about once a year, and helps the Doctor to save the universe in a couple of occasions. Look at Sam Adama in Caprica, a badass gangster who happens to be married to a man.

Don't you mention that dreamy man! Just makes me angry how they ended that show with Children of the whatever. It was a dark dark mini series of the series.
 
And actually in the respect, its the American maintream that has an issue with manly romance. The BBC has no problem with it at all.

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 07 février 2010 - 07:33 .

[mangaminxx]

Arik7 wrote...

BLAHBLUE2001 wrote...

I don't put much into what the IGN article stated. As many have already stated and we know through playing ME1 and ME2 Shepard’s very origins can be chosen by us the player even down to his/her race, gender, how he/she talks to others, etc. So how pre-defined are they really?

First Casey Hudson comes out and says that FemShep/Liara relationship is not f/f, and now Muzika tells us their customizable Shepard is somehow a "defined" character, but only if you are male, and only for sexuality....  Bizarre and offensive....

Totally agree here. I used to consider Bioware a company that pushed the boundries and did it's best to cater to a wide-scope of players. Jade Empire for example was really great with it's romance options and plotlines both hetrosexual and homosexual, and recently Dragon Age too did things very well. However, with quite frankly BS and offensive comments from members of the team and the lack of ANY decent homosexual romances in ME2 (ME1's romance with Liara was definately a lesbian one, no amount of codex crap will change that especially with the way characters like Kaiden talk about your sexuality once you say you have a thing for Liara) it's clear Bioware are going to play it safe and appeal to the stereotypical pea-brained male shooter market rather than have any depth for those of us who wish to play the game our way. 

I'm sure Bioware don't really care about our opinions otherwise they wouldn't have staff members putting forth such responses, but I am having serious doubts about purchasing future games from what was once my favourite game developer, not because of the lack of inclusion of same-sex romances but because of the disgraceful way they are responding to those of us who want the variety they once put in their titles.

[Lightice_av]

Torchwood-I am sorry but both the series and its character are annoying to me and seem pretentious.

Try Doctor Who. Does better job with Jack's character in my opinion, or just the second season of Torchwood - the first one was just stupid.

As to Caprica-didn't see it, turned off by Galactica remake which to me seemed like an soap opera rather then SF.

If only more soap operas had awesome space battles...Caprica is even more a soap opera, but also seems to be going into the less well trod direction of social science fiction, observing changes in technological development from a social perspective. Does very good job at handling religion, too, so far.

no amount of codex crap will change that

The Codex calls the asari an all-female species. It agrees with you even when Casey Hudson doesn't.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 07 février 2010 - 07:39 .