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[LoveAsThouWilt]

SwobyJ wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

It is quite strange- women like seeing men together and men like seeing women together.

Not in all cases for SURE, but, hell i have a female friend who watches gay men porn! It is quite odd.

ME will doubtfully ever get the MM option, hence, why as i've played I made what in my opinion appears to be the "canon-Shepards" decisions. Romancing Liara because she is the sensitive non-racist person (unlike Ashley the xenophobe) and romancing Tali because of her and Shepards past.

It's because in m/f interactions, you're still seeing your own gender do sexual things with the opposite. It's easier on the imagination to just see your own interest (for straight guys, that's seeing just females, as opposed to having to 'put themselves into the position' of the other male).

Makes a strange kind of sense I guess. When I was younger I ussually played as a female character to see the interactions with the male characters. Though for ME it felt wrong to do that simply because Shepard is so... manly and nice to look at and hear? lol

[Lightice_av]

Oh so there's definitely not going to be any MM options?

Definately? Hardly. The development of ME3 has barely even started. What Dr. Muzuka did was to dodge the question entirely with less than solid explanation for the option's absence in ME2. Don't take it as a definite statement about anything in either way. I'm quite certain that the developers didn't expect after finishing ME1 that they would be writing Garrus as LI a year later, either.

[DoctorOctagonapus]

BrookMorrison wrote...

My thread got locked, but here you go...

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance for a lesbian relationship.

Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

since you like posting the same response over and over...

This again? Shepard can be a genocidal warrior or the savior of a species. He can be a heroic paragon and save the council, or a single-minded politician set on uplifting humanity by letting the council die. "He" isn't even the proper term, because Shepard can be a man or a woman. Shepard can even be a lesbian. but a gay dude? aw hell no! he's pre-Defined

Modifié par DoctorOctagonapus, 07 février 2010 - 09:01 .

[SethSteiner]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh so there's definitely not going to be any MM options?

Well that's a shame.

I wouldn`t nail Ray on that. BioWare try to avoid "spoilers", so what should he say? No one would give us a single information 2 years before the release. Neither Dragon Age nor Mass Effect are really different, it`s nearly the same with the protagonist, it`s just an excuse to tell nothing. Didn`t evil Chris said such lines before just with Tali or Legion instead of a same sex romance? I mean third person and first person narrative, really? Pfff there are a few things adjusted, like "fight the evil!" and that`s it. In both games.

[sw33ts]

Mr. Muzyka is I unno...he says it's not a wide-open Matrix...but honestly what game is? Every game has things that predetermined that you can't help. In DA you HAD to be a grey warden you couldn't be on the side of the DarkSpawn. Sure you could choose your background...but how is that different in ME? In ME you can choose your background and your race, and in DA you can choose your race and your background.



If he's going to bring up the pre-determined character/story then why listen to the the fans about anything dealing with Mako, Tali, Garrus...so on so forth...

[Arik7]

YOU are Commander Shepard, and it's YOUR story, unless you are gay. Thanks BioWare for treating us like 2nd class citizents.

[Evil Johnny 666]

DoctorOctagonapus wrote...

BrookMorrison wrote...

My thread got locked, but here you go...

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance for a lesbian relationship.

Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

since you like posting the same response over and over...

This again? Shepard can be a genocidal warrior or the savior of a species. He can be a heroic paragon and save the council, or a single-minded politician set on uplifting humanity by letting the council die. "He" isn't even the proper term, because Shepard can be a man or a woman. Shepard can even be a lesbian. but a gay dude? aw hell no! he's pre-Defined

I believe, that by pre-defined, they mean that any alignment choice made, well you can't do much. You have the choice between paragon or renegade but not much beyond that, or be a male/female and decide your relationship. If your Shepard is paragon, he'll pretty much always do the same things which are things you don't really decide.

[Arik7]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...
I believe, that by pre-defined, they mean that any alignment choice made, well you can't do much. You have the choice between paragon or renegade but not much beyond that, or be a male/female and decide your relationship. If your Shepard is paragon, he'll pretty much always do the same things which are things you don't really decide.

How is that different from the Grey Warden in DAO?

[Eternal Dust]

sw33ts wrote...

Mr. Muzyka is I unno...he says it's not a wide-open Matrix...but honestly what game is? Every game has things that predetermined that you can't help. In DA you HAD to be a grey warden you couldn't be on the side of the DarkSpawn. Sure you could choose your background...but how is that different in ME? In ME you can choose your background and your race, and in DA you can choose your race and your background.

If he's going to bring up the pre-determined character/story then why listen to the the fans about anything dealing with Mako, Tali, Garrus...so on so forth...

Not to mention that DA also forced you into a last name ala Shepard. If you were a Noble human, you were Cousland. No other way around it. To say that DA offered a wider array of choices than ME is just ridiculous. They were both limited and directed you to a certain finale.

[Lightice_av]

If your Shepard is paragon, he'll pretty much always do the same things which are things you don't really decide.

Well, the same applies in Dragon Age, really. You can choose between a handful of options, but you don't get to hand craft those options to your exact liking. You can't for example recruit both Dalish elves and werewolves to your aid, no matter how much you want to; it has to be either or. Both games are limited in options. Dragon Age has more, but not as much more as Dr. Muzuka would claim. It certainly has nothing to do with the main character's orientation. It was just a dodge to avoid a question he couldn't possibly answer at this point.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Lightice_av wrote...

If your Shepard is paragon, he'll pretty much always do the same things which are things you don't really decide.

Well, the same applies in Dragon Age, really. You can choose between a handful of options, but you don't get to hand craft those options to your exact liking. You can't for example recruit both Dalish elves and werewolves to your aid, no matter how much you want to; it has to be either or. Both games are limited in options. Dragon Age has more, but not as much more as Dr. Muzuka would claim. It certainly has nothing to do with the main character's orientation. It was just a dodge to avoid a question he couldn't possibly answer at this point.

Yup a definite dodge. I actually own DA but I have yet to really even play it. I got past one origin but once learning that my skill points I chose were useless and I can't change it that i'll have to do the origin again to do it the way I want to. Bah. ANd the lack of a speaking voice for the character makes it a similar game of the scope of Oblivion and Fable 2 in which: I would care less what is happening in the world.

BUt I digress because I haven't given DA THAT much of a chance yet.

[Merchant2006]

I don't think Shepard is going to suddenly go gay in ME3. So uh, No.

[CHT87]

Hmm...I do not understand, why you are all so hatefull when it comes to this topic.

BW has no fear of making gay romances - see DAO or JE for that.



But they do not HAVE to insert it into their games if they do not want to in my opinion.



I also see no offense in the things Ray (was it him? ^^) said about this. But Caseys statement, that ME1 had no f/f romance option was really...ehm..."misinformed" (in lack of a better word for "dumb" )



ME and ME2 are great games and my main shepard (the one I can relate to the most) did not have a romance in 1 or 2 (even if he/me REALLY loved Tali...I did not want to make her sick or regret it, when I am not coming back with her to the flotilla - thinking ahead).



In the end - if BW decides to make a gay romance possible I would be totally fine with it. I will still play my character like I want him to. If I do not "love" a romancable character I will not engage him in that manner.

[BLAHBLUE2001]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

If your Shepard is paragon, he'll pretty much always do the same things which are things you don't really decide.

Well, the same applies in Dragon Age, really. You can choose between a handful of options, but you don't get to hand craft those options to your exact liking. You can't for example recruit both Dalish elves and werewolves to your aid, no matter how much you want to; it has to be either or. Both games are limited in options. Dragon Age has more, but not as much more as Dr. Muzuka would claim. It certainly has nothing to do with the main character's orientation. It was just a dodge to avoid a question he couldn't possibly answer at this point.

Yup a definite dodge. I actually own DA but I have yet to really even play it. I got past one origin but once learning that my skill points I chose were useless and I can't change it that i'll have to do the origin again to do it the way I want to. Bah. ANd the lack of a speaking voice for the character makes it a similar game of the scope of Oblivion and Fable 2 in which: I would care less what is happening in the world.

BUt I digress because I haven't given DA THAT much of a chance yet.

Yes he danced around the answer, but even what he said didn't mesh. I haven't gotten DA myself just yet, but I will soon and I like the new sig Love 

[Jimmy Fury]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

DoctorOctagonapus wrote...

BrookMorrison wrote...

My thread got locked, but here you go...

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance for a lesbian relationship.

Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

since you like posting the same response over and over...

This again? Shepard can be a genocidal warrior or the savior of a species. He can be a heroic paragon and save the council, or a single-minded politician set on uplifting humanity by letting the council die. "He" isn't even the proper term, because Shepard can be a man or a woman. Shepard can even be a lesbian. but a gay dude? aw hell no! he's pre-Defined

I believe, that by pre-defined, they mean that any alignment choice made, well you can't do much. You have the choice between paragon or renegade but not much beyond that, or be a male/female and decide your relationship. If your Shepard is paragon, he'll pretty much always do the same things which are things you don't really decide.

Spacer, Earth-born, Colonist.
War Hero, Survivor, Ruthless.
Paragon, Renegade, Both, Neutral.
And those choices do indeed matter to the story. One choice means Shep's mother is alive and mentioned in both games. Another choice means you saw your entire family get slaughtered. Those are major character traits.

There is a difference between making choices and being able to control the consequences of those choices. Having predefined consequences that you can't control is realistic. that's how life works, you choose to do something then you live with the results.  The fact that you can choose a paragon or a renegade response has nothing to do with the fact that you can't control what happens when you respond in that way.

[ScotGaymer]

As a gay gamer and Bioware fan I would very much like to make my ManShep gay.



Simply because I can clearly make my FemShep a lesbian. I mean she can go after Liara which may not be "technically" make FemShep a lesbian (cite the dialogue of that girl that Morinth murdered on Omega) it IS still a Lesbian relationship as the Asari are an ALL FEMALE race.

Additionally there is the whole option to romance Kelly as a FemShep.



Not that I would WANT to romance any of the guy characters in ME2 as a GayShep *shudders* well except maybe Thane.

They are all clearly str8 - so my GayShep in ME2 would be sexless lol.

But theres no reason for him not to be gay in ME3 IF you didnt romance anyone in the prior two games. Your repeat squadmates (most likely Garrus will be in ME3. Liara might be likely to return if she manages to take down the Shadow broker.) might comment on it... "So THATS why he knocked back Miranda and Ashley?"



For consistencies sake (with ME1 and ME2) I would like ME3 to have a gay ManShep option simply because its pretty much guaranteed to have a gay FemShep option.

[BrianWilly]

I posted this in the spoiler forum, and I'm posting it here...Muzyka's response was ridiculous. He didn't even answer the question.



Q: "How come there are lesbians in ME1 but no gay guys in ME2."



M: "Third-person narrative!"



Wait, what? What does that have to do with...what?



I'm certainly not going to be "quelled" by this.

[Jimmy Fury]

Speaking (earlier) of the WhoVerse. I am currently compelled to quote the Doctor...
I am BRILLIANT.

Why? Because I've just thought of this:
Lock the m/m romance option for any save-import that had m.Shep romance a female.
Problem. Solved.
No fractures in continuity from Shep suddenly having gay romance options because straight.Shep never ever ever even sees the dialogue option.
Therefore Shep will never ever "suddenly go gay" and the only people who ever need see it are those of us who will happily go out of our way to replay both games and make sure we never romanced someone of the opposite sex.

tada! everyone wins!

[Arik7]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Speaking (earlier) of the WhoVerse. I am currently compelled to quote the Doctor...
I am BRILLIANT.

Why? Because I've just thought of this:
Lock the m/m romance option for any save-import that had m.Shep romance a female.
Problem. Solved.
No fractures in continuity from Shep suddenly having gay romance options because straight.Shep never ever ever even sees the dialogue option.
Therefore Shep will never ever "suddenly go gay" and the only people who ever need see it are those of us who will happily go out of our way to replay both games and make sure we never romanced someone of the opposite sex.

tada! everyone wins!

Everybody except for a bi-sexual Shepard, who has been waiting to dump Ashley/Liara for the right guy...lol

[Juztinb42]

If BioWare decide on putting gay romances in ME3, I would rather them sell a separate game for it.  I do not want one of my favorite characters out of any video game, Kaidan Alenko, to all of a sudden start hitting on me.  Well, maybe it doesn't have to be Kaidan.  So that makes Jacob the next logical choice.  Not only is he black, which may be a turn-off for some gay caucasian males playing the game, but he is also a favorite of mine.  So that leaves Garrus, who is my favorite character of all time.

I'm going to leave my personal opinion out, as requested by the moderators, but I just want to say that I don't want to have my opinion of some of my favorite characters in video games become tarnished just because a few people complained.

And I want to pose a question to those who think gay romances should be included:  Can you tell me the last time you heard of a "Hero's Journey" style story that ended with the main character getting the guy?

[ABCoLD]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Speaking (earlier) of the WhoVerse. I am currently compelled to quote the Doctor...
I am BRILLIANT.

Why? Because I've just thought of this:
Lock the m/m romance option for any save-import that had m.Shep romance a female.
Problem. Solved.
No fractures in continuity from Shep suddenly having gay romance options because straight.Shep never ever ever even sees the dialogue option.
Therefore Shep will never ever "suddenly go gay" and the only people who ever need see it are those of us who will happily go out of our way to replay both games and make sure we never romanced someone of the opposite sex.

tada! everyone wins!

Of course you disenfranchise bisexuals... but otherwise that works... if they wanted to make it work?

Honestly all they needed to do to make same sex relationships work is spend ten dollars on writing and whatever five minutes worth of voice acting would cost them.  Cause thanks to the savegame editor we know that all you have to do is push a button and open up a romance option and the game engine will render it quite nicely for either gender.

They just didn't want to, which is dumb.

[Lightice_av]

Can you tell me the last time you heard of a "Hero's Journey" style story that ended with the main character getting the guy?

Dragon Age: Origins. How many times people are still going to ask the same question?

[ScotGaymer]

Juztinb42 wrote...

If BioWare decide on putting gay romances in ME3, I would rather them sell a separate game for it.  I do not want one of my favorite characters out of any video game, Kaidan Alenko, to all of a sudden start hitting on me.  Well, maybe it doesn't have to be Kaidan.  So that makes Jacob the next logical choice.  Not only is he black, which may be a turn-off for some gay caucasian males playing the game, but he is also a favorite of mine.  So that leaves Garrus, who is my favorite character of all time.

I'm going to leave my personal opinion out, as requested by the moderators, but I just want to say that I don't want to have my opinion of some of my favorite characters in video games become tarnished just because a few people complained.

And I want to pose a question to those who think gay romances should be included:  Can you tell me the last time you heard of a "Hero's Journey" style story that ended with the main character getting the guy?

Thats quite the leap in logic you have made there.

Just because we wish them to include the OPTION for ManShep to be gay and be with another lad (like you can be a lesbian with FemShep) does not mean that Kaidan, Jacob, Garrus, or Thane will all suddenly become bisexual or gay.
That makes absolutely ZERO sense.

Look at Dragon Age. Alistair flirts with ManWarden ALL the time. I mean ALL the time. And yet he is completely "straight". No matter how hard you try you just wont ever get into his pants.
So somehow I think its totally possible to *shock* keep Kaidan, Jacob, Thane, and Garrus as "straight" characters; and maybe introduce a new gay one?

[KateKane]

Juztinb42 wrote...

If BioWare decide on putting gay romances in ME3, I would rather them sell a separate game for it.  I do not want one of my favorite characters out of any video game, Kaidan Alenko, to all of a sudden start hitting on me.  Well, maybe it doesn't have to be Kaidan.  So that makes Jacob the next logical choice.  Not only is he black, which may be a turn-off for some gay caucasian males playing the game, but he is also a favorite of mine.  So that leaves Garrus, who is my favorite character of all time.

I'm going to leave my personal opinion out, as requested by the moderators, but I just want to say that I don't want to have my opinion of some of my favorite characters in video games become tarnished just because a few people complained.

And I want to pose a question to those who think gay romances should be included:  Can you tell me the last time you heard of a "Hero's Journey" style story that ended with the main character getting the guy?

[mangaminxx]

ABCoLD wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Speaking (earlier) of the WhoVerse. I am currently compelled to quote the Doctor...
I am BRILLIANT.

Why? Because I've just thought of this:
Lock the m/m romance option for any save-import that had m.Shep romance a female.
Problem. Solved.
No fractures in continuity from Shep suddenly having gay romance options because straight.Shep never ever ever even sees the dialogue option.
Therefore Shep will never ever "suddenly go gay" and the only people who ever need see it are those of us who will happily go out of our way to replay both games and make sure we never romanced someone of the opposite sex.

tada! everyone wins!

Of course you disenfranchise bisexuals... but otherwise that works... if they wanted to make it work?

Honestly all they needed to do to make same sex relationships work is spend ten dollars on writing and whatever five minutes worth of voice acting would cost them.  Cause thanks to the savegame editor we know that all you have to do is push a button and open up a romance option and the game engine will render it quite nicely for either gender.

They just didn't want to, which is dumb.

Yep I think dumb is pretty much the only word for it. Bioware used gay romances in other titles they have created and I'm sure that particularly in games like Jade Empire most people didn't really have a clue they could be gay, yet the option was there for those who sought it. Would have been simple enough for Bioware to write a few extra lines of dialogue pay for the VAing and voila. The idea that having the option to play as a gay character when you can easily make the choice to be hetrosexual is going to spoil the game clearly demonstrates that Bioware are simply babysitting those who are insecure in themselves.