3059 réponses à ce sujet

[LoveAsThouWilt]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Whats so hard about accepting that he isn't gay? And that you can't make him gay? Just go play DA ffs.

Because he got written the option with Kaiden which was voiced out, acted out and scrapped, thats why.

The female Shepard can be with an Asari AND with Kelly. Two FEMALES by our standards.

And from my experience of DAO it sucks and the M//M romance in it is pathetic due to the character taking to sex so casually and beign very feminine as well.

[Arik7]

Kordaris wrote...

VL247 wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

You can't choose:
-Race(can't play turian, asarit etc) but you can choose black/white/asian/etc
-Height
-Weight
-Age
-only one background is available(with different specializations as to what you did in the army)
-you can't choose your political views to be pacifists contradiction/breaks story
-you can't choose to join the reapers breaks story
-you can't choose to go on the rampage in citadel breaks story
-you can't choose to abandon your mission breaks story
-you can't choose to sell the Normandy and party on Illum breaks story
-you only get to choose two-three lines of dialogue

So yup Shepard is pretty pre-determined. Certainly more then DA where you had far more background options.

Certain things are predetermined for good reasons, story/plot coherency, etc. Making the sexuality of MaleShep being one of those predetermined qualities doesn't follow. Especially so when you consider that Liara isn't supposed to technically be female and thus MaleShep is not purely a straight male character then when he chooses to romance "her". Is a male defined as straight if he romances a hermphrodite or a MTF pre/post op transsexual?
Because my male Shep's been romancing Liara due to her ability to be both...

First of all, don't manipulate my posts. It's an extremely rude behaviour.

Second
Shepard gay/breaks story.


I see no problem, and you already explained why Shepard can't be gay. As to Liara she is an sexy alien with female characteristics not a human so human terms do not apply to her.

FemShep being gay doesn't break the story.  Why would the Male Shepard being gay break the story?  Romances are like side missions, completely optional and have no bearing on the main storyline.  Stop with the stupid excuses, we weren't born yesterday....

[Wittand25]

Kordaris wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...


All of the limitations also apply to the gray warden, from Ostagar onwards there is no storytelling difference between DA:0 and ME1, the only differences are gameplay and setting.

You don't start DA in Ostagar.

No but after Ostagar the difference between a human noble and a dalish elf is as big as the differences between earthborn and colonist.

[Creature 1]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...
And from my experience of DAO it sucks and the M//M romance in it is pathetic due to the character taking to sex so casually and beign very feminine as well.

I guess you didn't play it through.  Zevran's my favorite.  I don't think he's particularly feminine either, unless just being short makes you feminine.  

[Sporothrix]

Kordaris wrote...

Arik7 wrote...
FemShep being gay doesn't break the story.  Why would the Male Shepard being gay break the story?  Romances are like side missions, completely optional and have no bearing on the main storyline.  Stop with the stupid excuses, we weren't born yesterday....

FemShep is lesbian though. And lesbians are seen completely different in culture then male homosexuals.

So you have pointed it's a matter of Bioware hypocrisy.

[Arik7]

Kordaris wrote...

Arik7 wrote...
FemShep being gay doesn't break the story.  Why would the Male Shepard being gay break the story?  Romances are like side missions, completely optional and have no bearing on the main storyline.  Stop with the stupid excuses, we weren't born yesterday....

FemShep is lesbian though. And lesbians are seen completely different in culture then male homosexuals.

So a gay male cannot be a heroic soldier?  What you are implying is based on a stereotype and has no basis in reality.

[Sporothrix]

Kordaris wrote...
You can't choose:
-Race(can't play turian, asarit etc)

Actually you can choose to be black, white or asian.

-Height
-Weight
-Age

Just as in DAO

-only one background is available(with different specialisations as to what you did in the army)

That's not true. You have multiple backgrounds, just as in DAO. And you ends as Warden/Spectre and have nothing to say about it.

-you can't choose your political views to be pacifists

And in DAO you could explain politely to Archdemon he should change his ways?

So yup Shepard is pretty pre-determined. Certainly more then DA where you had far more background options.

There's not any big difference. And even when you're playing female, you could choose your sexual orientation. That shows Muzyka's hipocrisy, nothing else.

Modifié par misoretu9, 08 février 2010 - 02:15 .

[DaySeeker]

Kordaris wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

 If that is the case, it certainly is a slap in the face of gay fans, and it is a good reason to stop purchasing BioWare products.

I have a question. Why do you limit this to gay fans ? Clearly transgender gamers should boycott the game as well, since Shepard is not a crossdresser nor does he undergo a hormone treatment.
I assume you will advise them to stop buying BioWare products ?

Deviija wrote...

The difference is the double-standard.
If Shepard's pre-determined character is so defined then they should
not have included Kelly for FemSheps in ME2. The fact that they did
shows that the Shepard character is not defined for anyone but
DudeShepard. To write off FemShep/Kelly's lesbian relationship -- and
suddenly allowance for FemShep to be lesbian/bisexual in ME2 -- as
within the Shepard character and yet say 'it is not within the
character' to have a DudeShep/male relationship is a double-standard.
And ridiculous.

How is it a double standard ? It's quite obvious that lesbians are seen culturally in different way then gays.

Shhhh.  The grown-ups are talking.  

I know you were going for some sort of sensationalism, but while transgender may scare you and seem outrageous it's really not and it is not the same as crossdressing, that said, if I wanted to play a crossdressing or transexual Shep I could, but I can not play a gay one.  I can cotrol Shep's gender and appearance, but, although there are six romance options in the game none of them allow me to be gay.  

I think  I prefer my homophobes a little more frothy at the mouth; those just seem more honest and dedicated.  

[Sporothrix]

Kordaris wrote...
I have a question. Why do you limit this to gay fans ? Clearly transgender gamers should boycott the game as well, since Shepard is not a crossdresser nor does he undergo a hormone treatment.
I assume you will advise them to stop buying BioWare products ?

Transsexuals feel they are just men or women, so there's no point of this. And BTW ever heard of Kim Petras? She looks just like any other women, so why are you so certain your Shepard hasn't been born in body of opposite sex?

[Creature 1]

Funkenstein23 wrote...

@Creature 1

Thank you for the link. I read the entire article and I don't think it actually applies to what we are talking about. It speaks of differences in an educational setting, with regards to kids ability in a scientific or mathematic field. In fact, even the passage you quoted was in regards to how genders should be broken up in a classroom. I am not implying that men and women are different in terms of mental prowess, which is all that article is addressing. I did not see any baseline psychological claims, because that wasn't the authors intent. 

No, that was the focus of that particular article, but you see in the introduction they say that there has been found to be little difference in most measures of psychology.  I pulled up the meta-analysis review article they reference this morning, it describes the various studies they looked at: 

They are listed in Table 1, grouped roughly into six categories: those that assessed cognitive variables, such as abilities; those that assessed verbal or nonverbal communication; those that assessed social or personality variables, such as aggression or leadership; those that assessed measures of psychological wellbeing, such as self-esteem; those that assessed motor behaviors, such as throwing distance; and those that assessed miscellaneous constructs, such as moral reasoning.

As mentioned in the article I linked, in most of these cases differences were either absent or negligible.  They do mention some traits with moderate gender differences (meaning still a *lot* of overlap):  some measures of aggression (males greater physical aggression), motor performance (males greater physical strength), and sexuality (males a more lax attitude towards casual sex).  Besides these characteristics trait profiles have extensive overlap. 

[Madame November]

Creature 1 wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...
And from my experience of DAO it sucks and the M//M romance in it is pathetic due to the character taking to sex so casually and beign very feminine as well.

I guess you didn't play it through.  Zevran's my favorite.  I don't think he's particularly feminine either, unless just being short makes you feminine.  

Creature is right; he's definitely not feminine.
He does make ME feel feminine, though.<3

Modifié par November Cousland, 08 février 2010 - 02:40 .

[Atrumitos]

why should anyone have a problem with him having the option to be gay? I mean.... it's an RPG (well kinda) and last I checked you're supposed to be able to do whatever you want in an RPG.



I don't have a problem with having the option. I just would never go for it. Anyway if bioware wants to add it, they should.



PS: The seduction lines should be clearer if that is to happen. I don't want to end up trying to get friendly with someone and having to load before the dialogue in order to avoid the whole ship telling me that "I respect your sexual preferences" lol

[Creature 1]

Kordaris wrote...

I certainly don't see any reason why every sexual minority should have representation in the game.
It's not a political manifesto, a therapy or such.
It's a game people.  I certainly have a wide variety of sexual kinks,but don't go screaming to include them in the game.
Honestly it looks like a lot of insecurity or exhibitionism on some people's part.

Sigh.  Homosexuality isn't any more a "sexual kink" than heterosexuality.  Sexual orientation is a basic part of a person's identity, so it makes sense to include it if you make a role-playing game.  Sure, Shepherd could be straight or gay and celibate, but since relationships are so key to people it makes sense to include a romance partner as well.  Putting in a straight romance partner is a no-brainer.  Bioware in the past has included a f/f relationship because they think it appeals to straight male fans.  Adding a m/m relationship would appeal to straight female fans as well as gay men. 

[Sporothrix]

Kordaris wrote...

You are confusing transgender with transsexual. Transgender is a wide term covering many different types of different gender identity. Transsexual is a person willing to change his gender. Although even there you will find exceptions-for example partial sex operations. One can be transgender and not transsexual-for example crossdressers who do not want to change their sex and feel completely ok with being heterosexual, women who are attracted to gay men, or men attracted to lesbian women only(girlf*gs and guydykes).

There are two meanings of transgender term - one is umbrella term which includes transsexuals, crossdresses, genderqueers and so on, and second is basically same thing as transsexualism, only difference is transgenders don't want to have surgery on genital organs.

I'm MTF transsexual and I have what I want on that matter - I can play as female. But I'm lesbian as well, and lack of f/f romances really bugs me.

Don't know what think other trans people, but there's no any complains from them. And there's tons of complains from people who want same-sex romances. And propably most of them are not gay actually, cause many straight men prefer f/f theme, so as straight women with m/m, so your 'minority' argument isn't valid at all.

Modifié par misoretu9, 08 février 2010 - 02:51 .

[hycer]

Kordaris wrote...

Arik7 wrote...
FemShep being gay doesn't break the story.  Why would the Male Shepard being gay break the story?  Romances are like side missions, completely optional and have no bearing on the main storyline.  Stop with the stupid excuses, we weren't born yesterday....

FemShep is lesbian though. And lesbians are seen completely different in culture then male homosexuals.

Enlighten me please.  You keep saying lesbians and gays are different culturally but "culture" itself is a big and complex term so how exactly are they different culturally?

[axdorffe]

dont any of you guys think that only a percent of people want to have the option for shepard to be gay? ya there is the whole f/f thing but that was really carried over from the first game. bioware doesnt want to lose customers. but you guys also have to look at the general public too who play this game. lots of teen males to young adults who like action adventure... and hate to break it to you guys but hey most of the nation doesnt really like or approve of gay relationships, not trying to offend anyone but it is what it is. shepard is suppose to be the hero of the galaxy. and obviously certain themes are being taken from other literature and novels.. movies etc... and i personally believe a huge reason for even the f/f thing is well alot of teen to young adult males haha go figure. but there ya go. in most parts of the world and nation....m/m isnt accepted or looked well upon.... bioware wants to sell this to the public and stay true to their inspirations from where they go the story from.. for the most part at least.