3059 réponses à ce sujet

[Arik7]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

How about another young human Spectre, who is extremely attractive, and constantly competes with Shepard throughout ME3, but Shepard may seduce him and get him to join his squad at the end.
Otherwise, as has been suggested before, BioWare could create an all-male version of Asari.... I don't care if Casey Hudson would deny it's an m/m relationship..

Sounds like a non-fan version of Conrad. Sounds too much like a bigger plot point than an optional one. In this case I probably would agre with the anti's only because i don't think it would fit. It could, if done right, and I would DEFINATELY, welcome it, but once again it would depend on how its done.

Seduction of the anti-Shepard could be made optional.  Players could also persuade/intimidate the anti-Shep.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Arik7 wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

How about another young human Spectre, who is extremely attractive, and constantly competes with Shepard throughout ME3, but Shepard may seduce him and get him to join his squad at the end.
Otherwise, as has been suggested before, BioWare could create an all-male version of Asari.... I don't care if Casey Hudson would deny it's an m/m relationship..

Sounds like a non-fan version of Conrad. Sounds too much like a bigger plot point than an optional one. In this case I probably would agre with the anti's only because i don't think it would fit. It could, if done right, and I would DEFINATELY, welcome it, but once again it would depend on how its done.

Seduction of the anti-Shepard could be made optional.  Players could also persuade/intimidate the anti-Shep.

It is a thought, and not a bad one.

[FataliTensei]

Kordaris wrote...

tzeraph1 wrote...

A lot of interesting thoughts here. Interesting in the form of "against cause I aint gay, promise!". Dont think think its the purpose of the thread tough.

What would be so horrible with a gay Shepard? I mean, those who doesnt like to have a male/male or female/female relationship woulndt have to play the romance game that way.

But I guess, for some, the mere thought of being able to is scary enough, or?

Hey, I didn't want to romance Liara and Jack either. Really the game is showing romance into the player's throat.
Romance options should be in pink, seriously.

It does, being nice apparently means you want "that" kind of relationship with a character, I wish there were options for just being friendly and then options for romance, highlightedin a specific color like you said is a really good idea, that way people know what they're getting into.

[Wittand25]

Kordaris wrote...

Hey, I didn't want to romance Liara and Jack either. Really the game is showing romance into the player's throat.
Romance options should be in pink, seriously.

Jack asks you if you want sex, if you respond with no she sulks the rest of the game and wont speak to shepard again ( just like all the other female LI), appearently the only thing intresting about male Shepard is in his pants.

Modifié par Wittand25, 08 février 2010 - 09:19 .

[Ninja Mage]

If Garrus asked me if I wanted sex I'd say YES PLEASE

[FataliTensei]

Wittand25 wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Hey, I didn't want to romance Liara and Jack either. Really the game is showing romance into the player's throat.
Romance options should be in pink, seriously.

Jack asks you if you want sex, if you respond with no she sulks the rest of the game and wont speak to shepard again ( just like all the other female LI), appearently the only thing intresting about male Shepard is in his pants.

Yeah that gets rally annoying too, then again jack is really immature so

[Jimmy Fury]

Arik7 wrote...

How about another young human Spectre, who is extremely attractive, and constantly competes with Shepard throughout ME3, but Shepard may seduce him and get him to join his squad at the end.

I like this idea. Not just because it could easily be the core of my "expansion that bridges ME2 and ME3 and lays the groundwork for a new series of games" idea either lol.
It also brings in the gay.Shep option and the seduce/confront/recruit angles would be a quick solution to the "but i don't wanna see the geh!" problem. Just don't try to seduce him...

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 08 février 2010 - 09:30 .

[FataliTensei]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

How about another young human Spectre, who is extremely attractive, and constantly competes with Shepard throughout ME3, but Shepard may seduce him and get him to join his squad at the end.

I like this idea. Not just because it could easily be the core of my "expansion that bridges ME2 and ME3 and lays the groundwork for a new series of games" idea either lol.
It also brings in the gay.Shep option and the seduce/confront/recruit angles would be a quick solution to the "but i don't wanna see the geh!" problem. Just don't try to seduce him...

That's a really cool idea, or just a person in general who you'd have to work to get, that'd make it more fun for us and less of a problem for the antis.

Hopefully this character would be bad-ass though, just as long as he's not lke Zevran >_<.

Modifié par FataliTensei, 08 février 2010 - 09:38 .

[tyddrwsau]

A very quick and casual web search was all I needed to find out that Electronic Arts has had a corporate nondiscrimination policy inclusive of sexual orientation since at least 2000. Another let me know that Electronic Arts has been graded 100% on same sex partner benefits for employees by several advocacy groups. Equivalent searches for BioWare weren't so quick and easy: initial search results resulted in references to debates similar to this one, but applied to the KOTOR franchise. Since their actual policies didn't turn up through that quick search, I don't know what they contain; EA's corporate policies probably apply to subsidiaries they've acquired unless specifically exempted. Off the top of my head, I can identify two EA titles that I've played with inclusive treatment of same-sex relationships - The Sims, and Dragon Age: Origins - the latter, we know, is a BioWare product. It doesn't seem reasonable to claim that either entity is fundamentally anti-gay.



Having inclusive and even gay-positive corporate policies with respect to staff and the work environment does not mean that they'll make product design and marketing choices that are inclusive, obviously. I suggest that this issue is the one that deserves our attention, not accusations against the company generally.



Negative posts in this thread and others on related themes illustrate precisely why advocating for more inclusive and respectful representation in different forms of media is important! Inclusive corporate policy directly affects life for employees of a company. Inclusive representation in media like the Mass Effect games has the potential to improve the gameplay experience for those of us who'd like same sex relationships and can serve as a way to communicate the truth that same-sex relationships are just as "Normal" as different-sex relationships. The same applies to any characters who might be available for that relationship (Shepard, if the option is taken, the available squad mate even if Shepard isn't interested).



I don't understand the people who object because they don't want "gay sex" in the game. The games don't include explicit sexual content, and they don't need it. We're talking about romantic subplots, not smut. This applies generally to people who bring up the idea that thinking about same-sex relationships are disgusting. I never imagine what other peoples' sex lives are like. Do the majority of people actually do the whole "I think about Fran and her husband together and that's hot, but Nigel and his hubby, that's gross"? For that matter, do BioWare's tasteful and brief intimate cutscenes really inspire everyone to go off and visualise what comes later in graphic detail? I'm curious, there. Never saw the need myself.



Back to marketing. It's apparent that BioWare hopes to attract a number of different players by creating a shooter/RPG hybrid game like Mass Effect. I understand that a good chunk of the "shooter" demographic are younger men, many of whom may be prejudiced. (See above: positive benefits of inclusive messaging & character examples) I've seen several people say that the best way to appeal to this demographic is to avoid things they might not like (such as gay people).



Mass Effect is the only shooter I've played for more than a minute, so I'm hardly exemplary of the "shooter demographic." I've asked other people who are into such games about what appeals to them, what the best games are. I can't tell you how many times I've had an enthusiastic player answer this question by bringing up the "Grand Theft Auto" series and talk about how cool it is that they can not only shoot people, but even engage the services of a prostitute and then run her over with their car. If players can find it in themselves to be blase about such an awful scenario, even think it's cool, I can only hope that they can find it in their hearts to see what's cool about gay and lesbian space heroes.



I know, I know! I'm too wordy.

[Contempt6289]

Who said that your Shepard couldn't be gay? It's an RPG you are free to role play your character as whatever you wish. I think what you want is for BioWare to make OTHER characters gay, in which case I strongly disagree.

[FataliTensei]

tyddrwsau wrote...

A very quick and casual web search was all I needed to find out that Electronic Arts has had a corporate nondiscrimination policy inclusive of sexual orientation since at least 2000. Another let me know that Electronic Arts has been graded 100% on same sex partner benefits for employees by several advocacy groups. Equivalent searches for BioWare weren't so quick and easy: initial search results resulted in references to debates similar to this one, but applied to the KOTOR franchise. Since their actual policies didn't turn up through that quick search, I don't know what they contain; EA's corporate policies probably apply to subsidiaries they've acquired unless specifically exempted. Off the top of my head, I can identify two EA titles that I've played with inclusive treatment of same-sex relationships - The Sims, and Dragon Age: Origins - the latter, we know, is a BioWare product. It doesn't seem reasonable to claim that either entity is fundamentally anti-gay.

Having inclusive and even gay-positive corporate policies with respect to staff and the work environment does not mean that they'll make product design and marketing choices that are inclusive, obviously. I suggest that this issue is the one that deserves our attention, not accusations against the company generally.

Negative posts in this thread and others on related themes illustrate precisely why advocating for more inclusive and respectful representation in different forms of media is important! Inclusive corporate policy directly affects life for employees of a company. Inclusive representation in media like the Mass Effect games has the potential to improve the gameplay experience for those of us who'd like same sex relationships and can serve as a way to communicate the truth that same-sex relationships are just as "Normal" as different-sex relationships. The same applies to any characters who might be available for that relationship (Shepard, if the option is taken, the available squad mate even if Shepard isn't interested).

I don't understand the people who object because they don't want "gay sex" in the game. The games don't include explicit sexual content, and they don't need it. We're talking about romantic subplots, not smut. This applies generally to people who bring up the idea that thinking about same-sex relationships are disgusting. I never imagine what other peoples' sex lives are like. Do the majority of people actually do the whole "I think about Fran and her husband together and that's hot, but Nigel and his hubby, that's gross"? For that matter, do BioWare's tasteful and brief intimate cutscenes really inspire everyone to go off and visualise what comes later in graphic detail? I'm curious, there. Never saw the need myself.

Back to marketing. It's apparent that BioWare hopes to attract a number of different players by creating a shooter/RPG hybrid game like Mass Effect. I understand that a good chunk of the "shooter" demographic are younger men, many of whom may be prejudiced. (See above: positive benefits of inclusive messaging & character examples) I've seen several people say that the best way to appeal to this demographic is to avoid things they might not like (such as gay people).

Mass Effect is the only shooter I've played for more than a minute, so I'm hardly exemplary of the "shooter demographic." I've asked other people who are into such games about what appeals to them, what the best games are. I can't tell you how many times I've had an enthusiastic player answer this question by bringing up the "Grand Theft Auto" series and talk about how cool it is that they can not only shoot people, but even engage the services of a prostitute and then run her over with their car. If players can find it in themselves to be blase about such an awful scenario, even think it's cool, I can only hope that they can find it in their hearts to see what's cool about gay and lesbian space heroes.

I know, I know! I'm too wordy.

This

[Wittand25]

FataliTensei wrote...


That's a really cool idea, or just a person in general who you'd have to work to get, that'd make it more fun for us and less of a problem for the antis.

Hopefully this character would be bad-ass though, just as long as he's not lke Zevran >_<.

A cool idea yes, but extremly unlikely the last time that a romance was hard to achieve was BG2. Every romance after those was so easy that Bioware should start giving a staying-single-achievment and not paramour ones.

[grimeyhippy]

yhibiki wrote...

For anybody who thinks people are just being whiners... Try to pretend, for a second, that the game featured only gay romances. And then see how willing you'd be to say it doesn't matter, or that it's just a game.

I wouldn't buy it so hence I wouldn't make a thread whining about it

[LoveAsThouWilt]

tyddrwsau wrote...

A very quick and casual web search was all I needed to find out that Electronic Arts has had a corporate nondiscrimination policy inclusive of sexual orientation since at least 2000. Another let me know that Electronic Arts has been graded 100% on same sex partner benefits for employees by several advocacy groups. Equivalent searches for BioWare weren't so quick and easy: initial search results resulted in references to debates similar to this one, but applied to the KOTOR franchise. Since their actual policies didn't turn up through that quick search, I don't know what they contain; EA's corporate policies probably apply to subsidiaries they've acquired unless specifically exempted. Off the top of my head, I can identify two EA titles that I've played with inclusive treatment of same-sex relationships - The Sims, and Dragon Age: Origins - the latter, we know, is a BioWare product. It doesn't seem reasonable to claim that either entity is fundamentally anti-gay.

Having inclusive and even gay-positive corporate policies with respect to staff and the work environment does not mean that they'll make product design and marketing choices that are inclusive, obviously. I suggest that this issue is the one that deserves our attention, not accusations against the company generally.

Negative posts in this thread and others on related themes illustrate precisely why advocating for more inclusive and respectful representation in different forms of media is important! Inclusive corporate policy directly affects life for employees of a company. Inclusive representation in media like the Mass Effect games has the potential to improve the gameplay experience for those of us who'd like same sex relationships and can serve as a way to communicate the truth that same-sex relationships are just as "Normal" as different-sex relationships. The same applies to any characters who might be available for that relationship (Shepard, if the option is taken, the available squad mate even if Shepard isn't interested).

I don't understand the people who object because they don't want "gay sex" in the game. The games don't include explicit sexual content, and they don't need it. We're talking about romantic subplots, not smut. This applies generally to people who bring up the idea that thinking about same-sex relationships are disgusting. I never imagine what other peoples' sex lives are like. Do the majority of people actually do the whole "I think about Fran and her husband together and that's hot, but Nigel and his hubby, that's gross"? For that matter, do BioWare's tasteful and brief intimate cutscenes really inspire everyone to go off and visualise what comes later in graphic detail? I'm curious, there. Never saw the need myself.

Back to marketing. It's apparent that BioWare hopes to attract a number of different players by creating a shooter/RPG hybrid game like Mass Effect. I understand that a good chunk of the "shooter" demographic are younger men, many of whom may be prejudiced. (See above: positive benefits of inclusive messaging & character examples) I've seen several people say that the best way to appeal to this demographic is to avoid things they might not like (such as gay people).

Mass Effect is the only shooter I've played for more than a minute, so I'm hardly exemplary of the "shooter demographic." I've asked other people who are into such games about what appeals to them, what the best games are. I can't tell you how many times I've had an enthusiastic player answer this question by bringing up the "Grand Theft Auto" series and talk about how cool it is that they can not only shoot people, but even engage the services of a prostitute and then run her over with their car. If players can find it in themselves to be blase about such an awful scenario, even think it's cool, I can only hope that they can find it in their hearts to see what's cool about gay and lesbian space heroes.

I know, I know! I'm too wordy.

THIS! and no, I love your wordyness *bows once more*
You should be a spokesperson lol

[FataliTensei]

Wittand25 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...


That's a really cool idea, or just a person in general who you'd have to work to get, that'd make it more fun for us and less of a problem for the antis.

Hopefully this character would be bad-ass though, just as long as he's not lke Zevran >_<.

A cool idea yes, but extremly unlikely the last time that a romance was hard to achieve was BG2. Every romance after those was so easy that Bioware should start giving a staying-single-achievment and not paramour ones.

Very true, romances should be more involved than just selecting the top right hand option for every choice, based who the characters are they should each like a certain response that's not easy to pick out, you have to actually know the character you're trying to romance in order to romance them.

[Nautica773]

Contempt6289 wrote...

Who said that your Shepard couldn't be gay? It's an RPG you are free to role play your character as whatever you wish. I think what you want is for BioWare to make OTHER characters gay, in which case I strongly disagree.

Why would you be against BioWare making other characters gay? If that's how they visualize an NPC, that's how they visualize an NPC. In some instances, it makes sense for the situation (a quest on Omega involving the past of one of your followers wouldn't work otherwise). 

[firefly212]

I think we should have romance options for all the characters... I mean seducing the Grunt would be funny as heck. Dr, Hacksaw has the whole cougar aspect... whatever... it'd just leave more options for players with relatively minimal effort for programmers.

[Garuda One]

I'm straight and I love women more then anything. In Mass Effect 2 I am able to choose from a large basket of women, I would like to see the same done for homosexuals and lesbians as well, it's only fair. It's been done in KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Dragon Age and I believe Blauders Gate from what friends have told me, I myself have yet to play Blauders Gate series, but will when I'm free. To just not have it in Mass Effect 2 comes as puzzled and shocked it's been one excuse after another.

I remember in a thread posted on the old forums from a developer stating it was due to time restraints and not enough memory and also stated in an interview with Best Buy the same thing, then in another interview it was stated

"...here as in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined
character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who
he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more
tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's
more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But
that's by choice. "

-taken from an interview with Ray Muzyka by IGN

It's one absurd excuse after another. As a gaming company I thought BioWare was unique for not only trying to combine certain genres with other genres but also making there games for everyone to enjoy, no matter the skin color, race or sexual preference. With Mass Effect 2 it seems it's more for the average 45 year old neck beard who watches pornos all day and drinks monster and beer and plays WoW when he's not playing ME2 and is prejudice against people who are different, being different in this world is what makes it go around. This comes even more apparent with "Kellys Surprise at the end" and also in Mass Effect 1 with only allowing players to romance a homosexual relationship as a female Shepard and a Female-Humanoid Asari (yes I know there A-Sexual blah blah)

Well thats just my opinion and I wanted to voice it, apparently Fox News got under the skin, or someone did.

Modifié par Garuda One, 08 février 2010 - 10:07 .

[Garuda One]

Ugh, I keep getting double posted, I don't know why it keeps happening.

Modifié par Garuda One, 08 février 2010 - 09:58 .

[Contempt6289]

Nautica773 wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

Who said that your Shepard couldn't be gay? It's an RPG you are free to role play your character as whatever you wish. I think what you want is for BioWare to make OTHER characters gay, in which case I strongly disagree.

Why would you be against BioWare making other characters gay? If that's how they visualize an NPC, that's how they visualize an NPC. In some instances, it makes sense for the situation (a quest on Omega involving the past of one of your followers wouldn't work otherwise). 

I worded that poorly. I think they way Zevran in DA:O was done was fine. If BioWare actually designs the character to be that way I don't have a problem with it at all, but I also don't think they need to force it on a character just so there is a male/male romance in the game. If there was a DLC for a gay party member I wouldn't have an issue, or even if one had been included in the game it would have been fine. I just don't wan't to load up ME3 and find out that Grunt is gay now.

[Nautica773]

Contempt6289 wrote...
I worded that poorly. I think they way Zevran in DA:O was done was fine. If BioWare actually designs the character to be that way I don't have a problem with it at all, but I also don't think they need to force it on a character just so there is a male/male romance in the game. If there was a DLC for a gay party member I wouldn't have an issue, or even if one had been included in the game it would have been fine. I just don't wan't to load up ME3 and find out that Grunt is gay now.

That makes sense. It's one thing to add something, another to retcon.

[Garuda One]

Contempt6289 wrote...



I worded that poorly. I think they way Zevran in DA:O was done was fine. If BioWare actually designs the character to be that way I don't have a problem with it at all, but I also don't think they need to force it on a character just so there is a male/male romance in the game. If there was a DLC for a gay party member I wouldn't have an issue, or even if one had been included in the game it would have been fine. I just don't wan't to load up ME3 and find out that Grunt is gay now.

I also agree with this post as well.

[FataliTensei]

Contempt6289 wrote...

Nautica773 wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

Who said that your Shepard couldn't be gay? It's an RPG you are free to role play your character as whatever you wish. I think what you want is for BioWare to make OTHER characters gay, in which case I strongly disagree.

Why would you be against BioWare making other characters gay? If that's how they visualize an NPC, that's how they visualize an NPC. In some instances, it makes sense for the situation (a quest on Omega involving the past of one of your followers wouldn't work otherwise). 

I worded that poorly. I think they way Zevran in DA:O was done was fine. If BioWare actually designs the character to be that way I don't have a problem with it at all, but I also don't think they need to force it on a character just so there is a male/male romance in the game. If there was a DLC for a gay party member I wouldn't have an issue, or even if one had been included in the game it would have been fine. I just don't wan't to load up ME3 and find out that Grunt is gay now.

I personally wouldn't want any of the characters who have been defined as straight to suddenly go bi, I'd rather have a new character, that way the fans of the already existing characters don't get their faves messed with. Now with characters whose sexuality hasn't been clearly defined, I can understand them, perhaps coming to a revelation in the last game about it. Still I'd rather just have a new character.

[Wittand25]

No npc was defined as straight yet in ME1 or ME2 they just were unavailable. But I agree a new male npc that is available for both male and female is the best option.