100 réponses à ce sujet

[gotthammer]

Giantevilhead wrote...

Are you serious? Do you know what the word "derivative" means? Do you realize how much stuff Mass Effect takes from Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Farscape, Warhammer 40K, etc.?

The Krogans are essentially Klingons + Ork.

Reapers - Necrons/Cthulhu/Terminator

Volus - Ferengi/Hynerians

Hanar - Thyrrus

Rachni - Tyranid/Zerg

Thorian - Gravemind

Turians - Luxans

Geth - Matrix Machines

Quarians - Galactica

Asari - Eldars/Delvians

Spectres - Jedis/Inquisitors

The Illusive Man - G-Man/Cigarette Smoking Man

Mass effect - subspace

Biotics - Force users/psykers

The entire plot of the first two games takes liberally from Star Trek Enterprise and The Dirty Dozen.

Hehehe. Nice list. Lol at Reapers and Cthulhu. (tho' the squid form and mind effects of Sovereign would make someone think that )
Turians - Luxans? Hmm...so what would the Krogan be closer to? Scarrans (or that race that serve them?)?
Space Orks in Mass Effect would be nice/funny, tho'. ("Oi! Oi! Oi!" Space Hooligans FTW!)
I also lol'd at the Asari - Delvian thing (one of the thoughts that came to mind while I was watching FS last night)

Ahh, Mass Effect (or, perhaps, more appropriately, Element Zero) could also be - Unobtanium (present in lots of sci-fi! From Gundam to the more recent Avatar)

[Giantevilhead]

gotthammer wrote...
Hehehe. Nice list. Lol at Reapers and Cthulhu. (tho' the squid form and mind effects of Sovereign would make someone think that )
Turians - Luxans? Hmm...so what would the Krogan be closer to? Scarrans (or that race that serve them?)?
Space Orks in Mass Effect would be nice/funny, tho'. ("Oi! Oi! Oi!" Space Hooligans FTW!)
I also lol'd at the Asari - Delvian thing (one of the thoughts that came to mind while I was watching FS last night)

Ahh, Mass Effect (or, perhaps, more appropriately, Element Zero) could also be - Unobtanium (present in lots of sci-fi! From Gundam to the more recent Avatar)

Krogans are probably more Klingon than Ork. They seem to breed like Orks but they have rituals and some kind of honor like the Klingons. Although like the Klingons, very few Krogans are truly honorable and most are willing to break tradition to pursue personal goals.

Turians are Luxans because they're both pretty much tribal/warrior races that wear a lot of war paint.

Mass Effect is a good game and has an interesting universe but it is far from original.

Also, Thresher Maw - Worms from Dune

Salarians - Tau

Batarians - Orions

Vorcha - that ratlike race that serve the Scarrans

[gotthammer]

Giantevilhead wrote...

Krogans are probably more Klingon than Ork. They seem to breed like Orks but they have rituals and some kind of honor like the Klingons. Although like the Klingons, very few Krogans are truly honorable and most are willing to break tradition to pursue personal goals.

Turians are Luxans because they're both pretty much tribal/warrior races that wear a lot of war paint.

Mass Effect is a good game and has an interesting universe but it is far from original.

Also, Thresher Maw - Worms from Dune

Salarians - Tau

Batarians - Orions

Vorcha - that ratlike race that serve the Scarrans

Yup. Agreed. ME and ME2 are both, IMHO, great games. It may have 'borrowed'/been inspired from many other sources...but so what? It WORKS. That's what it's important, methinks.
Heck, if it were crappy, I wouldn't even bother w/ these forums. To date, tho', I don't think I've played a BioWare game that has disappointed, ME2 and DA:O included.

Thresher Maw - yeah...Dune. I'd also throw in that Asteroid thing from Star Wars:TESB
Salarians - lol, yeah, Tau (Tau could also = that weird Village Assoc. in Hot Fuzz. "The Greater Good", they say)
Vorcha - agreed

[frankiehorrigan]

The Reapers remind me heavily of the Berserkers.

Heh, the dick Admiral of the Quarian's ship is even a subtle reference to the Berserkers stories.

http://en.wikipedia....er_(Saberhagen)

Modifié par frankiehorrigan, 02 février 2010 - 08:22 .

[Dawninton]

Borschtbeet wrote...

The science and logic in Mass Effect is so rich and well written that it is impossible to take derivative crap like Star Trek and Star Wars seriously anymore.  Mass Effect just flat out blows them away.

That is not to say Mass Effect is the best sci fi story ever told, but compared to mainstream sci fi franchises, it clearly comes out on top.

The only "space opera" I can think of that is on the same level as Mass Effect is the Lensman series by Edward E. Smith.  

In fact, I think Mr.Karpyshyn has probably read these books since I can notice several sources of inspiration.

One great thing about Mass Effect is that even though it is rich in science and meticulous detail, it doesn't come at the expense of the characters.  Indeed, Mass Effect is a sci fi story with a heart that touches you emotionally as well as intellectually.

All you people who don't like Mass Effect 2, drop dead!

Star trek and mass effect are on the same page. They are very simaliar. Same with Star Wars, The storys are all really good. You guys are just hating on them cause you have seen it so many times. If you played threw mass effect as many times as you watchs the triology you would put it on the same page. Its nice to see a mix in Mass Effect of the Star Trek and Star Wars infulences in that art, story, and characters .

[Jable242]

Giantevilhead wrote...
Are you serious? Do you know what the word "derivative" means? Do you realize how much stuff Mass Effect takes from Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Farscape, Warhammer 40K, etc.?

The Krogans are essentially Klingons + Ork.

Reapers - Necrons/Cthulhu/Terminator

Volus - Ferengi/Hynerians

Hanar - Thyrrus

Rachni - Tyranid/Zerg

Thorian - Gravemind

Turians - Luxans

Geth - Matrix Machines

Quarians - Galactica

Asari - Eldars/Delvians

Spectres - Jedis/Inquisitors

The Illusive Man - G-Man/Cigarette Smoking Man

Mass effect - subspace

Biotics - Force users/psykers

The entire plot of the first two games takes liberally from Star Trek Enterprise and The Dirty Dozen.

Wow... just wow.  I am pretty sure you haven't really dug deep into 40k.

If you are going to trash talk the game, at least be accurate with your facts.


Asari - Eldars???

You equate consorts, strippers, and diplomats to the Eldar?  You think that the Eldar personality lends them to interspecies mingling?! 

I am not sure if you missed the memo, but Eldar are not even close to having those qualities.  Just like most of the other races in 40k, the Eldar are incredibly xenophobic and far too disciplined to carry any of those qualities.

But then again I am sure you heard somewhere that they were space elves and just drew your own generic conclusion from there.


Biotics - Force users/psykers???

Biotics and Psykers draw their power from completely different sources with completely different dangers that also have completely different reputations throughout the universe.

Yes they are both types of space magic, but that's the only similarity between the two.


Rachni - Tyranid/Zerg

The main trait of the Zerg/Tyranids is that they assimilate other races into their gene pool.  The Rachni do nothing of the sort.

Rachni leaders also seem willing to do things like negotiate, which is a trait hardly found within the zerg.


Volus - Ferengi???

Wow.  Um have you actually seen these two races?  You are comparing a race of nearly defensless intellectuals to the Ferengi?!


And Salarians - Tau???

Salarians are quick thinking practicioners of preemptive war that are constantly gathering intel about possible threats.

The Tau make up a patient empire that is willing to negotiate terms of 'alliance' (subjugation) with most races they come across, before resorting to multiple methods of hostility that does not always include military action.

Modifié par Jable242, 02 février 2010 - 08:58 .

[gotthammer]

^

I think the point was about similarities, more than anything else. As a general 'first look' goes, the comparisons do kinda work (not sure about the Asari - Eldar, thing, tho', but I do agree w/ the Asari - Delvian comparison. I can't really comment much on the Star Trek comparisons...as I'm not really into Trek anymore, nor do I remember much of it).

[Zigaroma]

I'm still trying to understand how to opening was possible at all.....I mean walking around and all.....yeah anybody wanna explain that?

[gotthammer]

double post...

Modifié par gotthammer, 02 février 2010 - 09:28 .

[loboME2]

Jable242,

For the Tau, it's always about the 'greater good'. Salarians do have some similarity in this part.

[Evil Johnny 666]

newcomplex wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

In terms of actual hard sci fi, mass effect fails hardcore, compared to stuff like Hyperion Cantos and Dune.

But as a piece of Space Opera, its relatively well written.

Well, there's no hardcore space opera. You can't mix explaining in detail everything and the sub-genre's definition.

I said "Hard Science fiction".   As in if you judge ME by those standards of writing, its bad.   But if you judge it by a space operas standard of writing, its O.K/good.   

If you judge it by actual literatures standard of writing, its really bad.  

I think Mass Effect is an incredible space opera, that's why I thought I misread you. But have you read the books? They are pretty well written I must say.

[Akimb0]

Borschtbeet wrote...

The science and logic in Mass Effect is so rich and well written that it is impossible to take derivative crap like Star Trek and Star Wars seriously anymore.  Mass Effect just flat out blows them away.

That is not to say Mass Effect is the best sci fi story ever told, but compared to mainstream sci fi franchises, it clearly comes out on top.

The only "space opera" I can think of that is on the same level as Mass Effect is the Lensman series by Edward E. Smith.  

In fact, I think Mr.Karpyshyn has probably read these books since I can notice several sources of inspiration.

One great thing about Mass Effect is that even though it is rich in science and meticulous detail, it doesn't come at the expense of the characters.  Indeed, Mass Effect is a sci fi story with a heart that touches you emotionally as well as intellectually.

All you people who don't like Mass Effect 2, drop dead!

ME2 is already a step back from ME1. So it's not really looking good for the future.

Modifié par Akimb0, 02 février 2010 - 01:09 .

[Kwonnern]

Loved the Romantic Comedy in District 9!

[KilrB]

BonsaiTreee wrote...

name some more good sci fi reads if it suits you anyone.

Seriously?

How about most anything by Lary Niven, from whom MS stole the "Ringworld" for Halo?

CJ Cherryh's "Chanur" and "Heavy Time" works are extremely good.

Hard SF at it's best.

Dan Abbnett's stories in the 40k universe (Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Titanicus, Brother's of the Snake, etc.) are my current favorites.

I'm also rather fond of Matt Farrer's "Shira Calpurnia" series also set in the 40k universe.

Not hard SF it's true, but some of the best reading you'll find.

Edit:

Add David Brin's "Uplift" series to the list.

Modifié par KilrB, 02 février 2010 - 03:40 .

[BonsaiTreee]

KilrB wrote...

BonsaiTreee wrote...

name some more good sci fi reads if it suits you anyone.

Seriously?

How about most anything by Lary Niven, from whom MS stole the "Ringworld" for Halo?

CJ Cherryh's "Chanur" and "Heavy Time" works are extremely good.

Hard SF at it's best.

Dan Abbnett's stories in the 40k universe (Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Titanicus, Brother's of the Snake, etc.) are my current favorites.

I'm also rather fond of Matt Farrer's "Shira Calpurnia" series also set in the 40k universe.

Not hard SF it's true, but some of the best reading you'll find.

awesome thanks

[A Killing Sound]

Borschtbeet wrote...

The science and logic in Mass Effect is so rich and well written that it is impossible to take derivative crap like Star Trek and Star Wars seriously anymore.  Mass Effect just flat out blows them away.

That is not to say Mass Effect is the best sci fi story ever told, but compared to mainstream sci fi franchises, it clearly comes out on top.

The only "space opera" I can think of that is on the same level as Mass Effect is the Lensman series by Edward E. Smith.  

In fact, I think Mr.Karpyshyn has probably read these books since I can notice several sources of inspiration.

One great thing about Mass Effect is that even though it is rich in science and meticulous detail, it doesn't come at the expense of the characters.  Indeed, Mass Effect is a sci fi story with a heart that touches you emotionally as well as intellectually.

All you people who don't like Mass Effect 2, drop dead!

Wow!  Another Lensman fan!  I'd never thought I'd see the day

I never even thought of the similarities.  Spectres=Galactic Patrol 

Almost tempted to restart Mass Effect 1 and call my main character KImball Kinnison or Clarissa MacDougall.

Modifié par A Killing Sound, 02 février 2010 - 03:28 .

[Clumsy Ninja]

Agreed.  I love this world.  The talk of a movie has me stoked.  (Here's hoping they don't pull a Max Payne on it.)

[For Humanity]

The Rachni are more like xenomorphs, thought that was kind of obvious what with all the references and all.

[Giantevilhead]

Jable242 wrote...

Giantevilhead wrote...
Are you serious? Do you know what the word "derivative" means? Do you realize how much stuff Mass Effect takes from Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Farscape, Warhammer 40K, etc.?

The Krogans are essentially Klingons + Ork.

Reapers - Necrons/Cthulhu/Terminator

Volus - Ferengi/Hynerians

Hanar - Thyrrus

Rachni - Tyranid/Zerg

Thorian - Gravemind

Turians - Luxans

Geth - Matrix Machines

Quarians - Galactica

Asari - Eldars/Delvians

Spectres - Jedis/Inquisitors

The Illusive Man - G-Man/Cigarette Smoking Man

Mass effect - subspace

Biotics - Force users/psykers

The entire plot of the first two games takes liberally from Star Trek Enterprise and The Dirty Dozen.

Wow... just wow.  I am pretty sure you haven't really dug deep into 40k.

If you are going to trash talk the game, at least be accurate with your facts.

I'm not trash talking the game. I was just pointing out that the game isn't very original.

Asari - Eldars???

You equate consorts, strippers, and diplomats to the Eldar?  You think that the Eldar personality lends them to interspecies mingling?! 

I am not sure if you missed the memo, but Eldar are not even close to having those qualities.  Just like most of the other races in 40k, the Eldar are incredibly xenophobic and far too disciplined to carry any of those qualities.

But then again I am sure you heard somewhere that they were space elves and just drew your own generic conclusion from there.

I know that Eldars are space elves. Asari are pretty much the same thing. They're both sensual and mystical species with special psychic/magic powers with an appreciation for the arts and live ten times as long as humans. Although technically, the Asari are more like space Dryads.

Biotics - Force users/psykers???

Biotics and Psykers draw their power from completely different sources with completely different dangers that also have completely different reputations throughout the universe.

Yes they are both types of space magic, but that's the only similarity between the two.

Space magic is a big similarity. Biotics are certainly more common than Force users and Psykers but they have similar abilities. Technically, Biotics are like the magic users in Eberron.

Rachni - Tyranid/Zerg

The main trait of the Zerg/Tyranids is that they assimilate other races into their gene pool.  The Rachni do nothing of the sort.

Rachni leaders also seem willing to do things like negotiate, which is a trait hardly found within the zerg.

They're all insectoid creatures with hive minds. The Tyranid and Zerg are actually based on the Bugs from Starship Troopers combined with the Xenomorphs from Alien. The Rachni are pretty much based on them too. The only difference is that the Rachni are not inherently hostile. Although in Starship Trooper, it was the humans that started the war against the Bugs so the Bugs might not be bad.

Volus - Ferengi???

Wow.  Um have you actually seen these two races?  You are comparing a race of nearly defensless intellectuals to the Ferengi?!

They're both physically weak species that rely on financial power to earn their place in the galaxy. The Ferengi may have been made out to be a threat when they were introduced but they basically became pretty harmless, although still very greedy in later seasons.

And Salarians - Tau???

Salarians are quick thinking practicioners of preemptive war that are constantly gathering intel about possible threats.

The Tau make up a patient empire that is willing to negotiate terms of 'alliance' (subjugation) with most races they come across, before resorting to multiple methods of hostility that does not always include military action.

The Tau aren't patient. They're expanding very fast for such a young species.

They're both short lived and technologically oriented races. They also like to make alliances and deal well with other races. There's also the fact that they're both utilitarian collectivist cultures. Heck, they even have the same lifespan.

I should also point out that the design of the Quarians and Geth are pretty much based on the Tau.

Modifié par Giantevilhead, 02 février 2010 - 07:37 .

[Schurge]

Borschtbeet wrote...

The science and logic in Mass Effect is so rich and well written that it is impossible to take derivative crap like Star Trek and Star Wars seriously anymore.  Mass Effect just flat out blows them away.

That is not to say Mass Effect is the best sci fi story ever told, but compared to mainstream sci fi franchises, it clearly comes out on top.

The only "space opera" I can think of that is on the same level as Mass Effect is the Lensman series by Edward E. Smith.  

In fact, I think Mr.Karpyshyn has probably read these books since I can notice several sources of inspiration.

One great thing about Mass Effect is that even though it is rich in science and meticulous detail, it doesn't come at the expense of the characters.  Indeed, Mass Effect is a sci fi story with a heart that touches you emotionally as well as intellectually.

All you people who don't like Mass Effect 2, drop dead!

Mass Effect blows Star Wars away...? Seriously? Right... But your right it blows most everything else out of the way.

[spock06]

BonsaiTreee wrote...

name some more good sci fi reads if it suits you anyone.

Ender's Game and sequels

Honor Harrington series by David Weber (probably the best and most realistic military sci-fi ever thought up...Weber really thinks about what combat in space would be like)

Dune series

Starship Troopers

The Forever War

[Decho the Dolphin]

The only other sci-fi Universe which comes close for me is the Commonwealth universe, from Peter F. Hamilton's commonwealth saga and void trilogy.

[tommythetomcat]

 Borrowing from past work doesn't detract from what someone creates, good characters and plots will always be the same and always feel familiar because you try your best to point out what it reminds you of.  In the end science fiction will always feel like other science fiction because they all promote the same themes and ideas.


Mass Effect has a tone and feel that is as well done as some of the greatest science fiction novels ever written.  It has the sense of weight behind the setting and the characters.  When you can make science fiction feel more like a drama or a thriller rather than just set in the future and having cool technology that saves the day, then you hit the right cord for most people who enjoy sci-fi novels and games.  


The Sci-Fi setting lets you explore humanity with its flaws and strengths in vastly different ways than a setting in the conventional world does.  I just feel drawn to well hashed out back story  and realistic tones such as Earths nations never actually coming together to get into space in ME.  The Systems Alliance which was backed by many nations broke off its ties to all nations and is it's own separate entity not controlled by any one nation but by a parliament of all nations(according to a ME codex writers blog) and is the face of humanity for the rest of the galaxy and the support structure for human colonies.

The realism of even in the future we still can't learn to get along with our neighbors just adds more depth to how no matter how far we advance we are still humans and this is how we are; the polar opposite of that is of course Star Trek where magically all civil strife ended and everyone is happy as can be.  It just doesn't feel realistic, not to say Star Trek is bad but it was more about explore the "wild west" frontiers, and in the early years the "monster of the week" was also very popular for the episodes.

my 2 cents on the subject :happy:

Modifié par tommythetomcat, 02 février 2010 - 08:12 .

[Havokk7]

I think some of the posters in this thread are confusing "based on" with "based on the same archetype".



I don't think it is true to say 'Krogan are based on Klingons". It is true that both are based on the same archetype - that of an honourable warrior race - an archetype that has been in stories for centuries.



B



P.S. Star Wars is not space fantasy. It is a martial arts story. The archetype of an inexperienced but talented young person on a quest to find a wise teacher to defeat a powerful evil is a very old archetype. It was already old when Kurosawa made The Hidden Fortress (the movie that Star Wars A New Hope is based on).