I think this quest would be a lot better if we were able to talk to Jowan, turn him down, then talk to the First Enchanter Irving where he forces us to betray Jowan, then warn Jowan that the Circle knows his plan and will ambush him to catch him in the act. Jowan would decide that the plan is doomed to failure and not go through with it or think of another way.
The game has been taken one step further and this way we are not forced to betray either the Circle of Magi or Jowan. Just my two cents.
Jowan Feedback (Spoilers)
Débuté par
Hamarabi2006
, nov. 06 2009 02:19
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#2
Posté 06 novembre 2009 - 03:18
David Gaider
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I think it was even like this at one point -- but there comes a time where you just can't have every logical outcome to a plot (especially in an origin where things are more or less directed anyhow). Or, I should say, you *can* have every outcome but it can threaten to become unnecessarily convoluted at that point and difficult to script, at which point you end up faced with a drastic reduction in scope to fix the problem or cutting the offending quest altogether.
In this particular instance I remember Sheryl went through several convolutions trying to find a path that both worked and allowed the player some option of how to act if not *every* option. At any rate, thanks for the feedback.
In this particular instance I remember Sheryl went through several convolutions trying to find a path that both worked and allowed the player some option of how to act if not *every* option. At any rate, thanks for the feedback.
#3
Posté 06 novembre 2009 - 11:54
Hamarabi2006
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Thanks for the reply, David.
I'm just saying there should have been an option where we did not have to betray someone. In this quest, we are forced to betray either the Circle of Magi, or Jowan. There is no other way. I don' t think adding that option would be convoluted at all, but rather the most logical thing to do in my mind.
I am surprised that nobody thought that the audience would seek for a way to complete the quest without betraying anyone and still do the right thing.
I'm just saying there should have been an option where we did not have to betray someone. In this quest, we are forced to betray either the Circle of Magi, or Jowan. There is no other way. I don' t think adding that option would be convoluted at all, but rather the most logical thing to do in my mind.
I am surprised that nobody thought that the audience would seek for a way to complete the quest without betraying anyone and still do the right thing.
#4
Posté 06 novembre 2009 - 12:14
Hamarabi2006
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(This may be a double post. I waited 5 minutes and nothing showed up though.)
We are given two options. One is to betray the Circle of Magi. The other is to betray our friend Jowan. It seems very logical to me that the audience would want to try to get through the quest without betraying anyone and still do the right thing. How is that convoluted?
We are given two options. One is to betray the Circle of Magi. The other is to betray our friend Jowan. It seems very logical to me that the audience would want to try to get through the quest without betraying anyone and still do the right thing. How is that convoluted?
#5
Posté 06 novembre 2009 - 12:14
Hamarabi2006
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(This may be a double post. I waited 5 minutes and nothing showed up though.)
We are given two options. One is to betray the Circle of Magi. The other is to betray our friend Jowan. It seems very logical to me that the audience would want to try to get through the quest without betraying anyone and still do the right thing. How is that convoluted?
We are given two options. One is to betray the Circle of Magi. The other is to betray our friend Jowan. It seems very logical to me that the audience would want to try to get through the quest without betraying anyone and still do the right thing. How is that convoluted?
#6
Posté 06 novembre 2009 - 12:14
Hamarabi2006
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(This may be a double post. I waited 5 minutes and nothing showed up though.)
We are given two options. One is to betray the Circle of Magi. The other is to betray our friend Jowan. It seems very logical to me that the audience would want to try to get through the quest without betraying anyone and still do the right thing. How is that convoluted?
We are given two options. One is to betray the Circle of Magi. The other is to betray our friend Jowan. It seems very logical to me that the audience would want to try to get through the quest without betraying anyone and still do the right thing. How is that convoluted?
#7
Posté 06 novembre 2009 - 04:03
Wissenschaft
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Perhaps the point of the quest is that you can not save Jowan. Not everyone can be save, especially from themselves. Its part of the charm of DA, there are no black and white choices.
#8
Posté 07 novembre 2009 - 02:15
Hamarabi2006
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The way it is, seems very black and white to me. Two choices. Both Betrayal. Not logical.
If I was really Jowan's friend, I would not want him to get in trouble, no matter how much I disagreed with him or how loyal I was to the Circle of Magi. I would want him to change his ways and make every effort to facilitate that change before giving up. I would have put it bluntly, "They know your plans and are going to ambush you. This is your last chance to turn this around before it is too late!"
If I was really Jowan's friend, I would not want him to get in trouble, no matter how much I disagreed with him or how loyal I was to the Circle of Magi. I would want him to change his ways and make every effort to facilitate that change before giving up. I would have put it bluntly, "They know your plans and are going to ambush you. This is your last chance to turn this around before it is too late!"
Modifié par Hamarabi2006, 07 novembre 2009 - 02:46 .
#9
Posté 22 novembre 2009 - 04:40
Gegenlicht
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Considering that Jowan is the whiniest, sorriest 'friend' you could ever have (before meeting Alistair at any rate), I felt no compunctions about ratting him out in ten seconds flat. I'm really wondering why my character put up with that loser in the first place.
#10
Posté 22 novembre 2009 - 04:50
Riona45
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Meh, I actually really enjoyed defying the Circle. I played my PC as someone who did consider Jowan a friend (though perhaps not an "equal" with regards to his talent), and even if she didn't, she probably still would have taken the opportunity to escape.* My PC wasn't "wicked" and had no ill intentions, she just wanted freedom. I never once really saw it as a "betrayal", to be honest, and even if it was, that didn't bother me.
*Lily does suggest that you probably could just run away from the tower along with them, even though your phylactery isn't there to crush like Jowan's is.
*Lily does suggest that you probably could just run away from the tower along with them, even though your phylactery isn't there to crush like Jowan's is.
Modifié par Riona45, 22 novembre 2009 - 04:52 .
#11
Posté 22 novembre 2009 - 04:54
Saurel
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Gegenlicht wrote...
Considering that Jowan is the whiniest, sorriest 'friend' you could ever have (before meeting Alistair at any rate), I felt no compunctions about ratting him out in ten seconds flat. I'm really wondering why my character put up with that loser in the first place.
Youre heartless Gegenlicht
Modifié par Saurel, 22 novembre 2009 - 04:54 .
