65 réponses à ce sujet

[Thiefy]

would you be able to kill Morrigan's baby? Hypothetical situation, for whatever reason you somehow find yourself faced with the decision of having to kill it.

Assuming you took the ritual anyway. For the majority of people it will be wither your child or the child of your lover and I was just wondering when faced with that possibility, would you find a way to spare the child (even if there may be very bad reprocussions?) or would you kill it?

Kind of finding yourself in Isolde's shoes, so to speak.

Of course I think it would be easier for people who were just using Morrigan or weren't in a relationship w/ Alistair to do it but considering how much people reacted to Isolde I wonder how they would act if the shoe was on the other foot.

Personally, I would probably still try to find a way to save the child. It really is more or less my fault it even exsists, that, and well it's Alistair's child. On some level it probably is important to him, and literally is his only blood family left (I do not count Goldanna for obvious reasons). It's like Redcliffe all over again and possibly on a more personal level.

Edit: Since it seems like people aren't really understand the question, let me further explain.
The child doesn't necessarily have to be evil, though if you want to take it as that be my guest. What I am trying to illustrate with my example(s) is that due to some course of events, it is believed that the child must die. They may not be evil (or may, depending on how you want to look at it), but the exisistance of the child poses some threat or imment danger to a town/people/fereldan/etc., so if it meant saving other people, would you kill it or try to save it? Would you still try to save it knowing that you could endanger so many more lives rather than just dealing with the one?

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 02 février 2010 - 05:13 .

[Creature 1]

It's not human, it's an old god in a human's body. My female mage might try to spare it but I think the rest would say better safe and sorry than just sorry and kill it.

[wwwwowwww]

Well it's not just her baby, it's either yours or Alistairs so question is can you kill your child or your friends child.

[Chasseresse]

If it was a threat to the world, I'd kill it in a heartbeat.

[Mistersunshine]

Morrigan's baby . . . it's what's for dinner.

[errant_knight]

It depends entirely on what/who the child turns out to be. There's nothing intrinsically evil about an old god, as far as we know. I'm actually wondering why the darkspawn seek them out, exactly. Perhaps they want to corrupt them because, untainted, they could be a force for good. We just don't know. We know nothing about the old gods or the darkspawn's goals. I'm not much for killing things because they might be a problem. By that reasoning, all humans should be killed at birth. I'd have to see some real evidence before I'd even think about it.

In my scenarios, it's Alistair's 'child', too, so I'd have to see what he thought about it before I did anything. He's pretty quick to kill things that come down on the 'evil' side of the scale, usually a little quicker than me, if not by much, so I'd be willing to be guided by his wishes.

Modifié par errant_knight, 02 février 2010 - 02:39 .

[Thiefy]

errant_knight wrote...

It depends entirely on what/who the child turns out to be. There's nothing intrinsically evil about an old god, as far as we know. I'm actually wondering why the darkspawn seek them out, exactly. Perhaps they want to corrupt them because, untainted, they could be a force for good. We just don't know. We know nothing about the old gods or the darkspawn's goals. I'm not much for killing things because they might be a problem. By that reasoning, all humans should be killed at birth. I'd have to see some real evidence before I'd even think about it.

I knew someone would do this, which was why I bolded, underlined, and italicized *hypothetical*.

I never said the god baby would be evil and out to destroy the world. It could be another Connor scenario and it got possessed, as unlikely for it to happen, but whatever. Use your imagination. It doesn't have to be evil but by the magic of giant plot bunnies, you are some how faced with making that decision.

All I said that is you somehow find youself in the same situation as Isolde and given the situation where everything points to the child dying, could you kill it? Or, like Connor's scenario again, would you find a way to spare it?

It doesn't even have to be about the child having a God soul, could you kill your own child or the child of your lover? If neither of those things apply to you, then I suppose it's just the standard "could you kill a child", which a lot of players have already.

In my scenarios, it's Alistair's 'child', too, so I'd have to see what he thought about it before I did anything. He's pretty quick to kill things that come down on the 'evil' side of the scale, usually a little quicker than me, if not by much, so I'd be willing to be guided by his wishes.

fast edit there.  except of the events after redcliffe where he flips out when you don't save the both of them.

Well it's not just her baby, it's either yours or Alistairs so question is can you kill your child or your friends child.

Yes that is exactly what I am asking, but it's easier to refer to it as morrigan's child rather than all other titles that may or may not apply to it depending on who the player is.

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 02 février 2010 - 02:51 .

[Mistersunshine]

Not only would I kill Morrigan's baby, I'd have killed Morrigan herself right on the rooftop of Fort Drakon rather than let her walk away, had I the option.

[DPSSOC]

Well if any of my character's encountered Morrigan's baby it would be their baby too so probably no. My HN characters aren't going to kill their own child considering they'd lost what family they had. So I'd probably try to reign them in but I could never kill them.

[Thiefy]

Mistersunshine wrote...

Not only would I kill Morrigan's baby, I'd have killed Morrigan herself right on the rooftop of Fort Drakon rather than let her walk away, had I the option.

Ouch. That's a bit harsh isn't it? >_o

i wonder if that will ever be an option in the future.

[errant_knight]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

It depends entirely on what/who the child turns out to be. There's nothing intrinsically evil about an old god, as far as we know. I'm actually wondering why the darkspawn seek them out, exactly. Perhaps they want to corrupt them because, untainted, they could be a force for good. We just don't know. We know nothing about the old gods or the darkspawn's goals. I'm not much for killing things because they might be a problem. By that reasoning, all humans should be killed at birth. I'd have to see some real evidence before I'd even think about it.

I knew someone would do this, which was why I bolded, underlined, and italicized *hypothetical*.

I never said the god baby would be evil and out to destroy the world. It could be another Connor scenario and it got possessed, as unlikely for it to happen, but whatever. Use your imagination. It doesn't have to be evil but by the magic of giant plot bunnies, you are some how faced with making that decision.

All I said that is you somehow find youself in the same situation as Isolde and given the situation where everything points to the child dying, could you kill it? Or, like Connor's scenario again, would you find a way to spare it?

It doesn't even have to be about the child having a God soul, could you kill your own child or the child of your lover? If neither of those things apply to you, then I suppose it's just the standard "could you kill a child", which a lot of players have already.

In my scenarios, it's Alistair's 'child', too, so I'd have to see what he thought about it before I did anything. He's pretty quick to kill things that come down on the 'evil' side of the scale, usually a little quicker than me, if not by much, so I'd be willing to be guided by his wishes.

fast edit there.  except of the events after redcliffe where he flips out when you don't save the both of them.

Well it's not just her baby, it's either yours or Alistairs so question is can you kill your child or your friends child.

Yes that is exactly what I am asking, but it's easier to refer to it as morrigan's child rather than all other titles that may or may not apply to it depending on who the player is.

Yes. I saw the 'hypothetical', but I felt like going into more detail as to my thinking, so I did. That's not really a big deal, is it? I think I answered the question. Whether I killed it or not would have to depend on whether it was evil, therefore, in your scenario where it was necessary for unknown reasons, presumably that it is evil, I would kill it, but not without running it by Alistair first to make sure I wasn't jumping to conclusions, or missing something. Well, and out of common decency. It is his god-child. Alistair isn't wrong about Redcliff. Neither Connor or Isolde have to die. If you kill them, you went for quick/easy without looking at all the options. Reasons can be found for that, but it makes sense that it pisses him off. These people are the only family he has and Alistair feel VERY strongly about family.

[SusanStoHelit]

I'm with errant_knight on this one.

1. If the child is evil - killing innocent people as Connor was - and I had no other option. Yes, I'd kill the child.

2. If I had another option, another way of stopping the child - as I did with Connor - then I'd take the alternative.

3. If the child was not evil, not harming anyone, then the point is moot. The child doesn't need to be killed. And I'd kill anyone else who tried it.

[Edited for typos.]

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 02 février 2010 - 03:31 .

[TheBlackBaron]

I don't know. It's easy to look down on Isolde and her whole situation because she made a series of stupid decisions in succession, and I very much did so, but to be faced with it yourself...I think that most Wardens would probably hesitate at killing something that's about 1/3 themselves or their friend. Of course, should you have no such emotional attachments it'd probably be a pretty easy decision.

For my primary MHN character, after seeing damn near his entire family get wiped out, I think it would be close to impossible for him to go through with it. Certainly not without first attempting to find a third option.

I had a big whoops moment first time through since I took Alistair's advice and went to Redcliffe first, so there weren't any Circle magi to bail me out and I was forced to accept Jowan's solution. I actually never even thought that there might be another option; this seemed like a classic situation where there was no way this could end well for everybody, and totally fitting into the dark fantasy theme of the game.

SusanStoHelit wrote...

I'm with errant_knight on this one.

1. If the child is evil - killing innocent people as Connor was - and I had no other option. Yes, I'd kill the child.

2. If I had another option, another way of stopping the child - as I did with Connor - then I'd take the alternative.

3.
If the child was not evil, not harming anyone, then the point is moot.
The child doesn't need to be killed. And I'd kill anyone else who tried
it.

[Edited for typos.]

This, basically. Susan managed to articulate what I was trying to say without all the rambling.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 02 février 2010 - 03:35 .

[errant_knight]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I don't know. It's easy to look down on Isolde and her whole situation because she made a series of stupid decisions in succession, and I very much did so, but to be faced with it yourself...I think that most Wardens would probably hesitate at killing something that's about 1/3 themselves or their friend. Of course, should you have no such emotional attachments it'd probably be a pretty easy decision.

For my primary MHN character, after seeing damn near his entire family get wiped out, I think it would be close to impossible for him to go through with it. Certainly not without first attempting to find a third option.

I had a big whoops moment first time through since I took Alistair's advice and went to Redcliffe first, so there weren't any Circle magi to bail me out and I was forced to accept Jowan's solution. I actually never even thought that there might be another option; this seemed like a classic situation where there was no way this could end well for everybody, and totally fitting into the dark fantasy theme of the game.

SusanStoHelit wrote...

I'm with errant_knight on this one.

1. If the child is evil - killing innocent people as Connor was - and I had no other option. Yes, I'd kill the child.

2. If I had another option, another way of stopping the child - as I did with Connor - then I'd take the alternative.

3.
If the child was not evil, not harming anyone, then the point is moot.
The child doesn't need to be killed. And I'd kill anyone else who tried
it.

[Edited for typos.]

This, basically. Susan managed to articulate what I was trying to say without all the rambling.

I think the Conner situation is an excellent example of why it's so important to go through all the dialogue options in every scenario. The game is very well designed, and sometimes it takes some digging to get to all the choices (and sometimes, there is no good choice, no matter how hard I dig! I didn't let Jowan out, so I got to hear what Alistair had to say about the circle mages and the lyrium before hearing from Jowan, and boy, was I ever relieved to hear that.... Isolde was the only one who really objected to the idea, and sice she clearly has the brain of a gerbil, I didn't listen to her. If I hadn't got to Alistair's dialogue, though, it might have gotten ugly. I was preparing to pick the 'I have to think about this option' and go back to camp to have a big ol'chat with everyone and hopefully get more information.

Modifié par errant_knight, 02 février 2010 - 03:47 .

[Thor Rand Al]

errant_knight wrote...

It depends entirely on what/who the child turns out to be. There's nothing intrinsically evil about an old god, as far as we know. I'm actually wondering why the darkspawn seek them out, exactly. Perhaps they want to corrupt them because, untainted, they could be a force for good. We just don't know. We know nothing about the old gods or the darkspawn's goals. I'm not much for killing things because they might be a problem. By that reasoning, all humans should be killed at birth. I'd have to see some real evidence before I'd even think about it.

In my scenarios, it's Alistair's 'child', too, so I'd have to see what he thought about it before I did anything. He's pretty quick to kill things that come down on the 'evil' side of the scale, usually a little quicker than me, if not by much, so I'd be willing to be guided by his wishes.

I've so got to totally agree with you on this...



N yes it is Alistair's child too, even though I'm the 1 that convinced him to do it in the first place n didn't lie about the ritual so we could be together n but if it ever came down to having to make that decision you better believe I'm goin to talk to Alistair about it first.

[Kekse2k]

I'd kill it for an achievement...............heh. Otherwise, no, I probably couldn't, probably "allow" it to be killed, like Havard did with Andraste and Maferath.

[EthanDirtch]

Hmm, well, since the question already posits a confrontation, then I can only assume the stakes would already be much higher than just me, or the child. It depends on who which character. If the stakes were so high that my character absolutely needed to deal with the child, then it would likely mean death for the child. If the stakes were not at all that high outside of personal reasons, then conflict would be avoided like the plague.



Of course, I'm also treating the question as, "This is the absolute only way to solve things: fight him/her, or not." I treated the question as not having any room for alternative solutions.

[angj57]

This is a difficult, interesting choice that I hope to see in a sequel.

[SusanStoHelit]

EthanDirtch wrote...

Hmm, well, since the question already posits a confrontation, then I can only assume the stakes would already be much higher than just me, or the child. It depends on who which character. If the stakes were so high that my character absolutely needed to deal with the child, then it would likely mean death for the child. If the stakes were not at all that high outside of personal reasons, then conflict would be avoided like the plague.

Of course, I'm also treating the question as, "This is the absolute only way to solve things: fight him/her, or not." I treated the question as not having any room for alternative solutions.

But you still haven't articulated why we're confronting the child. You haven't given a hypothesis at all. You can't just say, kill or don't kill without saying why we're confronting them at all.

Hypothesis: a statement or theory to be proved or disproved by reference to evidence or facts.

You haven't provided a theory at all, much less evidence or facts. All you've provided is a situation.

Edit: I just reread this and realised it was completely unclear. Need more coffee. I meant so say: no-one has articulated etc... A confrontation without context is meaningless. And impossible to resolve.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 02 février 2010 - 06:15 .

[Thiefy]

Ok well people obviously did not understand my first post, so I went back and edited it. Hopefully I have sufficiently explained myself.

[SusanStoHelit]

I understood perfectly. Screw if they're a threat. A threat to whom? A threat why?



If the child is 'evil', hurting people, and I have no choice..... (just read my post above).



For example:



1. Posit: The child returns and is a threat to the Chantry because they are a God. The Chantry wants the child killed. They drum up the populace, raising fear in them without any evidence that the child is any risk to anyone.



Response: I join the child and fight the Chantry - and everyone who sides with them.



2. Posit: the child is running around Denerim, slaying and torturing people while shrieking with glee. It says it will bring death and destruction to all.



Response: kill the child or die trying.

[Thor Rand Al]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

The child doesn't necessarily have to be evil, though if you want to take it as that be my guest. What I am trying to illustrate with my example(s) is that due to some course of events, it is believed that the child must die. They may not be evil (or may, depending on how you want to look at it), but the exisistance of the child poses some threat or imment danger to a town/people/fereldan/etc., so if it meant saving other people, would you kill it or try to save it? Would you still try to save it knowing that you could endanger so many more lives rather than just dealing with the one?

There are soooo many ways of how to respond to this n that's the problem... Looking at it from a parent's point of view like the Conner situation there was no way in hell I was gonna kill a child... N I'm so glad you get the options to look for other ways of dealing with that, I would rather sacrifice myself then to kill a child but I would still look for other options...
It depends on what you mean by endangering lives, how would the child be endangering lives??? If the childs not evil then the other possibility would be that someone found out what the child is n you got angry mobs trying to kill the child... In a situation like that no I wouldn't, I'd try to find another solution...
If the childs down right evil well then thats another story, I honestly don't know what I would do...

I will tell you this though if they were ever to put this in a game it would be very very interesting.

[Thiefy]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

I understood perfectly. Screw if they're a threat. A threat to whom? A threat why?

If the child is 'evil', hurting people, and I have no choice..... (just read my post above).

For example:

1. Posit: The child returns and is a threat to the Chantry because they are a God. The Chantry wants the child killed. They drum up the populace, raising fear in them without any evidence that the child is any risk to anyone.

Response: I join the child and fight the Chantry - and everyone who sides with them.

2. Posit: the child is running around Denerim, slaying and torturing people while shrieking with glee. It says it will bring death and destruction to all.

Response: kill the child or die trying.

Ok so in other words, you'd try to save it unless it was evil, more or less?

I understood your posts as well the first time, you didn't need to explain yourself. i went back and edited my posts in response to several people because it looked like they were honestly confused with what i was trying to say. as in, they misinterpreted my question, not "they answered wrong".

[errant_knight]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

The child doesn't necessarily have to be evil, though if you want to take it as that be my guest. What I am trying to illustrate with my example(s) is that due to some course of events, it is believed that the child must die. They may not be evil (or may, depending on how you want to look at it), but the exisistance of the child poses some threat or imment danger to a town/people/fereldan/etc., so if it meant saving other people, would you kill it or try to save it? Would you still try to save it knowing that you could endanger so many more lives rather than just dealing with the one?

There are soooo many ways of how to respond to this n that's the problem... Looking at it from a parent's point of view like the Conner situation there was no way in hell I was gonna kill a child... N I'm so glad you get the options to look for other ways of dealing with that, I would rather sacrifice myself then to kill a child but I would still look for other options...
It depends on what you mean by endangering lives, how would the child be endangering lives??? If the childs not evil then the other possibility would be that someone found out what the child is n you got angry mobs trying to kill the child... In a situation like that no I wouldn't, I'd try to find another solution...
If the childs down right evil well then thats another story, I honestly don't know what I would do...

I will tell you this though if they were ever to put this in a game it would be very very interesting.

I didn't have to make the choice with Conner, but if I'd had to, I think I would have killed him rather than let Jowan use blood magic, even with a willing victim. Allowing it would be giving tacit approval. More evil is just a bad way to deal with evil. In retrospect, I'm not at all sure that there isn't something a little hinky with Conner. Given his mother's religious nature, and having received at least some mage training from Jowan, Conner wasn't completely ignorant as to the implications of dealing with a demon. He's not that young. In the epilogue ending where Conner goes to Tevinter to study the fade, I'm always deeply unsettled. I have a real bad feeling about that--about Conner in general, actually. His response when you talk to him afterwards seems...a little off.

Modifié par errant_knight, 02 février 2010 - 06:22 .

[SusanStoHelit]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I understood your posts as well the first time, you didn't need to explain yourself. i went back and edited my posts in response to several people because it looked like they were honestly confused with what i was trying to say. as in, they misinterpreted my question, not "they answered wrong".

I'm sorry, since your post came immediately after mine, I assumed it was addressed to me. My bad.