326 réponses à ce sujet

[sirandar]

Did Bioware rush ME2 out? I don't really get that impression. I get stuck sometimes and there is a huge variation in quality between the main quest path and some of the subquests but ME2 seems no more rushed than any other game, perhaps less so.



Every single game is rushed to market because that is when the cash starts rolling in.



Some people are accusing EA of destorying gaming companies. That is way too simple. Developers sell out when they are in decline or the people involved want to cash out. Either way it is usually already over. Bioware may be an exception.



The stock price rises and then often plummets

Cash is harvested never to be seen again

Often everyone is fired or laid off.



Personally I hate mergers like that because now all the games I like from Bioware are tied to and support all the games I don't from EA. Now when I buy a game from Bioware a good part of it goes to somebody I don't want to support, I am paying two entities.



Sadly, selling out is part of the business plan of almost every company. That is part of our badly failing economy. Usually but not always, everyone benefits except for the consumer and emplyees and those shareholders who don't cash out at the right time.

[gosensgo88]

I disagree that ME2 was rushed, the game is way too polished to be rushed. Like kileyan said, the things that you're complaining about were design choices obviously meant to cater to casuals with short attention spans, and you have all those people who complained about the first game being too complicated to thank for that.

As a huge fan of ME1, ME2 was a pretty big disappointment and it's not even because of the streamlined RPG elements, it's because of the story. I honestly feel that ME2's story is one of the worst from Bioware yet (which sucks because I felt that ME1's was one of Bioware's best). Instead of flowing smoothly throughout the whole game, like ME1's did, the majority of ME2's story is just random bits and pieces thrown together. It honestly feels like Bioware focused more on the story of the side missions rather than main story, even though side missions are just that, missions on the side.

[kiyyto]

I’m going to log off for tonight.

[apollyonpt1]

Couple of points i would like to say, everything people are talking in these forum, complaining about custumization, the combat system, the exploring, the game that was rushed, etc, it all comes down to one thing...money, ME1 better or not was a great game and build a good reputation.



They knew about this so they listened to the issues that people critized so they could make a game that they could milk the money from people.



the engine is the same, some assets are the same, animations, textures etc...



people ask whys so few armours, why this why that....



isnt it obvious...money....



everything is going to be sold on dlc



the game was not rushed, on the contrary, if you take the time you see that they had plenty of time to optimize everything, the things that are actually missing will come, eventually at a price.



the combat system is better yes, on some points, but the its too obvious that they took a formula that 360 owners know very well ( gears of war) to make the game even better for this market.



in the end 360 owners are the big share that fills theyre pockets, so they concentrate on them.



sorry for bad english

[kiyyto]

sirandar wrote...

Did Bioware rush ME2 out? I don't really get that impression. I get stuck sometimes and there is a huge variation in quality between the main quest path and some of the subquests but ME2 seems no more rushed than any other game, perhaps less so.

Every single game is rushed to market because that is when the cash starts rolling in.

Some people are accusing EA of destorying gaming companies. That is way too simple. Developers sell out when they are in decline or the people involved want to cash out. Either way it is usually already over. Bioware may be an exception.

The stock price rises and then often plummets
Cash is harvested never to be seen again
Often everyone is fired or laid off.

Personally I hate mergers like that because now all the games I like from Bioware are tied to and support all the games I don't from EA. Now when I buy a game from Bioware a good part of it goes to somebody I don't want to support, I am paying two entities.

Sadly, selling out is part of the business plan of almost every company. That is part of our badly failing economy. Usually but not always, everyone benefits except for the consumer and emplyees and those shareholders who don't cash out at the right time.

you might be right.
later.

[Brayton]

I hate making arguments over the internet...I never get it right....

My point is, everytime the logo appears every thinks EVIL CORPORATION....has anyone payed attention to Kotick lately?

EA is by no means a saint but its a the WAY lesser of two evils....the bigger evil being Activision

Modifié par RockingKraut, 02 février 2010 - 04:26 .

[kiyyto]

apollyonpt1 wrote...

Couple of points i would like to say, everything people are talking in these forum, complaining about custumization, the combat system, the exploring, the game that was rushed, etc, it all comes down to one thing...money, ME1 better or not was a great game and build a good reputation.

They knew about this so they listened to the issues that people critized so they could make a game that they could milk the money from people.

the engine is the same, some assets are the same, animations, textures etc...

people ask whys so few armours, why this why that....

isnt it obvious...money....

everything is going to be sold on dlc

the game was not rushed, on the contrary, if you take the time you see that they had plenty of time to optimize everything, the things that are actually missing will come, eventually at a price.

the combat system is better yes, on some points, but the its too obvious that they took a formula that 360 owners know very well ( gears of war) to make the game even better for this market.

in the end 360 owners are the big share that fills theyre pockets, so they concentrate on them.

sorry for bad english

you might be right too.
OK, I’m really gone.

[BizarroMar]

>Implying a publisher is to blame for design choices.



Anyway my thoughts on some points.

1. I'm not too fussed about lack of side missions, I can go through ME1's main story in about 8 hours 17-20 hours if i do side quests, for ME2 it takes me between around 16 hours to get all my squad mates excluding legion add another 3/4 to that to do the loyalty missions, get the IFF and do Legions loyalty quest.

So I'd rather have a game with a lengthy story with at the moment a handful of side quests than ME1 with it's short main story and loads of generic (but fun) side quests.



I mean you still have to look forward to he hammerhead which should include hopefully a number of planets you can drive about in like ME1, and if Bioware keep their word a regular supply of free/premium DLC.



While I agree that this could've waited 2 months to be in retail it'd of more than likely had a 3rd disk and you'd all be ****ing about constant disk swapping. None of that with DLC.



2. ME2 has more armour than ME1 in a way, use the colour tool to change the N7 default armour and you can make most if not all the armours from the first game. Different chest, arm and leg pieces although at the moment are only a few have provided a greater selection of armour than the first.

Same goes for weapons they've kept the whole 2 looks for each weapon

"oh noes they don't have clear stats ;_;"

Pro tip - upgrade, stop crying and go scan planets.



Yes the game has it's faults but that is in no way EA's problem they make have asked for a Q1 2010 release but if Bioware said they weren't happy with that time frame they wouldn't release it. If this was any other publisher... Besides Activision then half you people wouldn't be complaining.

[FlurryJK2]

People are so ungrateful.... Cant make everyone happy sadly. It is good to make problems you have with the game known so the devs can take player feedback and build upon it, but I dont think mocking the publisher or developers will get you anywhere

[Veex]

gosensgo88 wrote...

I disagree that ME2 was rushed, the game is way too polished to be rushed. Like kileyan said, the things that you're complaining about were design choices obviously meant to cater to casuals with short attention spans, and you have all those people who complained about the first game being too complicated to thank for that.

There is nothing difficult or complicated about Mass Effect. Is omni gelling and selling a bloated inventory tedious? Yes it is. Is it difficult? No it is not. There is nothing hard about Mass Effect's inventory and character development or skill system. It was simply bloaded and not user friendly. There should be no reason why I finish a game with 999,999,999 credits. Optimizing armor is not difficult when the epitome is Spectre VII or X and Colossus armor. An illusion of choice is not a good RPG. 

I appreciate that you can see the changes made in Mass Effect 2 were not a symptom of the game being rushed, but I disagree that they were done because Mass Effect was "too difficult" and they wanted to cater to "casuals."

gosensgo88 wrote...As a huge fan of ME1, ME2 was a pretty big disappointment and it's not even because of the streamlined RPG elements, it's because of the story. I honestly feel that ME2's story is one of the worst from Bioware yet (which sucks because I felt that ME1's was one of Bioware's best). Instead of flowing smoothly throughout the whole game, like ME1's did, the majority of ME2's story is just random bits and pieces thrown together. It honestly feels like Bioware focused more on the story of the side missions rather than main story, even though side missions are just that, missions on the side.

That is precisely what the story is about, recruiting your team in respect to the suicide mission. This isn't Mass Effect where you're following Saren and learning about the Reapers and picking up squad mates as you go. You're literally tasked with building a squad here because it is necessary, you can't do this alone. I disagree that it is simply random bits and pieces as your entire purpose, as TIM points out early on the game, is to build a team to fight the collectors.

Modifié par Veex, 02 février 2010 - 04:35 .

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

If Mass Effect 2 was rushed, it's because it was necessary. They're aiming for a trilogy with full continuity. Unfortunately, one of their target platforms has a limited lifespan so succeeding in their goal is currently a race against time. They have to wrap up the trilogy before the 360 goes the way of the dinosaur, which unfortunately probably means cutting a few corners here and there. The price of trying to do something ambitious I suppose.

[Shady41]

Drakron wrote...

KalReegar wrote...

EA has a habit of ruining good franchises. Mercenaries ...

I am sorry but I cannot blame EA for Mercenaries 2 as Pandemic was trying to sell it for a long time and nobody was picking it up like it was tainted.

That was a grave they thensleves dug up.

I like to blame both parties. Pandemic could have fixed the game to make it somewhat resembling Mercs 1 but they failed even that.

I'd like to see if Bioware will add in more elements from ME1. For gods sakes I want a larger variety in weapons. They got the heavy weapon category down well. I want more assault rifles, shotguns, and sniper rifle selections. Having Tier 1, 2 and 3 weapons do not cut it.

[Mangrapes]

Sigh. Anyone play Jade Empire? Very much a action game with light rpg elements. Much along the same line as Mass Effect is. If not even less so. Made in 2005, and published by microsoft game studios.
Bioware wants to redefine the rpg genre. It's been clear for years now. Even with NWN 1 they have tried to redefine how it works. Its not EA's fault. They suck, I agree. they put the axe to one of my favorite developers (Bullfrog), but they are not the culprit here. Bioware did not "rush" Mass Effect 2 by pulling out all your hopes and dreams from the first one, they pulled it out because they felt it was a detriment to the design of the game they INTENDED it to be.
If you pull the wizard hat and stat sheet out of your asses for a moment you might see how fun Mass Effect can be as a DEVIATION from traditional rpgs.
And who can complain? Bioware has not abandoned anyone - hell they just released Dragon Age: which is a total tribute to old school rpg fans. Whether or not you personally like the game is irrelevant. It possesses all the traits of what a "so called" rpg is.
Get off your high horses for a little while and think about things before you post.  

Modifié par Mangrapes, 02 février 2010 - 04:50 .

[Itkovian]

Most of the flaws being listed are not due to the game being rushed. They are design decisions, decisions that took the game away from the first installment and with which many people on these forums disagree (and, judging from reviews, that many agree with).



ME2 isn't any shorter than ME1, nor is it less polished. The focus simply changed, but that does not mean it was rushed.



Itkovian

[IndianKJBlue]

Dragon Age feels more like a rushed product than this game, and Dragon Age took 5 years to develop,and started development before EA bought BioWare. So... I don't know what people are talking about. ME2 is actually very well polished as far as I can tell.

But, uh yeah, EA is satan! Blargh!

[gosensgo88]

Veex wrote...

There is nothing difficult or complicated about Mass Effect. Is omni gelling and selling a bloated inventory tedious? Yes it is. Is it difficult? No it is not. There is nothing hard about Mass Effect's inventory and character development or skill system. It was simply bloaded and not user friendly. There should be no reason why I finish a game with 999,999,999 credits. Optimizing armor is not difficult when the epitome is Spectre VII or X and Colossus armor. An illusion of choice is not a good RPG. 

I appreciate that you can see the changes made in Mass Effect 2 were not a symptom of the game being rushed, but I disagree that they were done because Mass Effect was "too difficult" and they wanted to cater to "casuals."

Where did I say that the game was too difficult? Difficult =/= complicated, and I clearly remember numerous people complaining about how complicated the first one was to start and how they didn't get a good tutorial and whatever.

I mean Penny Arcade even made a comic making light of the complaints:

http://www.penny-arc...mic/2007/11/19/

Not to mention that it wasn't my complaint, yes I found omni gelling everything annoying, but in my opinion the first game was as close to perfect a game can get.

That is precisely what the story is about, recruiting your team in respect to the suicide mission. This isn't Mass Effect where you're following Saren and learning about the Reapers and picking up squad mates as you go. You're literally tasked with building a squad here because it is necessary, you can't do this alone. I disagree that it is simply random bits and pieces as your entire purpose, as TIM points out early on the game, is to build a team to fight the collectors.

Yes I know that's what the story is about, and to me it's not as good as the first game's story. Most of your squad has nothing to do with the collectors in the first place and only join you because you helped them out with their problems that are irrelevant to the main story.

In ME1 you were a human who became the first human spectre and then kicked some major ass against an enemy that threatened the whole galaxy and was supposed to be almost invincible, making some tough decisions in the process. In ME2 you collect your squad and go beat up the guys who destroyed your ship and are now abducting humans. Maybe the first game just built up the hype too much for me, but I expected the story of ME2 to rival ME1's and IMO it didn't.

[Zigaroma]

Yvese89 wrote...

It fails in the character customization aspect. It's literally a direct copy paste from the first game. There are also A LOT less varities of armors/weapons.

So all the FF games aren't rpgs? How many of those let you create who you play as? Customization does not equal rpg, need I remind everybody that RPG mean Role Playing Game and in ME 2 you play the role of the main char as well as greatly affect the story. So wait if I'm role playing and it's in a game that would mean the game is an RPG, holy **** that's mind blowing!

[phoenix fang55]

Mass Effect 2 is set up to lead into 3, the level cap, the story, it all points to this. The game is greatly improved over the last in many ways, where its faults lie is this,

1. They moved weapon mods into skills, they should have made the weapons like the armor, with various peices that you can change in and out that add different effects, the main one being ammo type.

2. While there is far more resources than you need, there is only a limited amount of currency that can be made, and not enough. This they could fix by allowing you to sell off excess resources.

3. With the condensed skills, they need more, particulary passive skills, and a higher cap to bring back the true rpg feel to the game. I beleive Bioware knows this is a current failing as they poke fun at it at the game table on the citadel, "They don't make role playing games like they used to, its all about "big choices" and "Visceral Combat" now."

4. No true planetary exploration! But this they already have fixed in the Upcoming Hammerhead dlc Release.

These are where the game fails in my opinion, but those are the downsides, the classes are unique, the abilities work better in every way, the story is rich, if you import you see so many charachters and references from the original, and them protraying what you did, Helana Blake, The Rachni Queen. The weapons are actually more diverse, as is the armor, customiztion.... it goes on and on.

[Spectre_Shepard]

complain all you want. mass effect 2 is the best game i've ever played. and I have played some incredible games in the past.



nothing more needs to be said.

[phoenix fang55]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm working on my third playthrough, while also going back to the first so that I can make some better chars in ME2. I just say it has a few areas it could use a little tweaking in to make it more the game we expected, the hammerhead dlc will help greatly.

[EverteMax]

the revamped combat system is enough for me to give the all green to ME2.



ME1 combat was scrapping by the 'horrid line'

[Veex]

gosensgo88 wrote...

Where did I say that the game was too difficult? Difficult =/= complicated, and I clearly remember numerous people complaining about how complicated the first one was to start and how they didn't get a good tutorial and whatever.

Not to mention that it wasn't my complaint, yes I found omni gelling everything annoying, but in my opinion the first game was as close to perfect a game can get.

Complicated, by definition, implies difficulty, but I digress. I am glad that you enjoyed Mass Effect so immensely. BioWare clearly had a different vision for the franchise and changed it accordingly. This obviously has grated with many of the fans who preferred some of the more traditional RPG elements, but in the end it was their decision. Whether that will expand their fanbase remains to be seen.

Yes I know that's what the story is about, and to me it's not as good as the first game's story. Most of your squad has nothing to do with the collectors in the first place and only join you because you helped them out with their problems that are irrelevant to the main story.

In ME1 you were a human who became the first human spectre and then kicked some major ass against an enemy that threatened the whole galaxy and was supposed to be almost invincible, making some tough decisions in the process. In ME2 you collect your squad and go beat up the guys who destroyed your ship and are now abducting humans. Maybe the first game just built up the hype too much for me, but I expected the story of ME2 to rival ME1's and IMO it didn't.

I don't agree that a galaxy wide threat has no effect on your squad members, but if you feel that way I can respect that. I do contend that many of them, especially Thane and Samara distinctively mention fighting for that cause because of the importance of it, perhaps you simply overlooked it. The threat in this game is the same threat that persisted throughout Mass Effect, the looming Reaper invasion is still there.

You're doing more than just beating up the guys who stole your ship. The collectors are in lieu with and directly controlled by the Reaper threat. The overarching theme is still there and present. I also loved Mass Effect's story and can understand your point though, I just don't think the sequel's plot is as simple as contrived as you're implying.

[newcomplex]

Lets all blame EA for everything.

[Twitchmonkey]

newcomplex wrote...

Lets all blame EA for everything.

I heard that EA secretly acquired the **** party shortly before WW2.