161 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

brgillespie wrote...

Is it really unreasonable for a former lover to freak out a bit when the person they deeply cared about dies... and then 2 years later reappears? On top of that, this person did not try to contact her AND has reappeared at the forefront of Mass Effect's equivalent of Al Qaeda.

I fully understood Ashley's anger.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if the person I love came back from the dead to save me when I needed them most, I'd do the 'Tali-pounce' on them and ask questions much, much later when I came up for air.

[UnstableMongoose]

brgillespie wrote...

Is it really unreasonable for a former lover to freak out a bit when the person they deeply cared about dies... and then 2 years later reappears? On top of that, this person did not try to contact her AND has reappeared at the forefront of Mass Effect's equivalent of Al Qaeda.

I fully understood Ashley's anger.

Demand turban armor and matching beard. Either for Shepard or the Illusive Man, it doesn't make a real difference to me.

[sedrikhcain]

brgillespie wrote...

Is it really unreasonable for a former lover to freak out a bit when the person they deeply cared about dies... and then 2 years later reappears? On top of that, this person did not try to contact her AND has reappeared at the forefront of Mass Effect's equivalent of Al Qaeda.

I fully understood Ashley's anger.

Astonishment and bewilderment would make sense to me. Anger would not. And I honestly have a hard time understanding how you can justify her being upset that you haven't called. You were dead -- DEAD!!! -- up until a few weeks before you saw her and she's on a covert operation. How exactly was she supposed to believe that you had attempted to contact her and failed? Her mission was so top secret that Anderson himself wouldn't tell even you, shepard, where she was or how to contact her.

[sedrikhcain]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

brgillespie wrote...

Is it really unreasonable for a former lover to freak out a bit when the person they deeply cared about dies... and then 2 years later reappears? On top of that, this person did not try to contact her AND has reappeared at the forefront of Mass Effect's equivalent of Al Qaeda.

I fully understood Ashley's anger.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if the person I love came back from the dead to save me when I needed them most, I'd do the 'Tali-pounce' on them and ask questions much, much later when I came up for air.

lol at Tali-pounce.

Nice.

[Decurian]

The best illustration of the difference between Ash and Tali is their respective reactions when they first meet Shepard after his return. It's night and day. Ash cops an (unacceptable) attitude and Tali is simply glad to see Shepard, though suspicious of the Cerberus connection.



I don't know about you all, but from my perspective of Shepard that degree of loyalty makes the difference. Ash jumps to judgement; Tali trusts that Shepard knows what he's doing--and it's the right thing. It always was before, so what's different now?



Sure, Ash tries to make amends after she thinks about it awhile. By then, however, things have changed. The Haestrom mission was over (my playthrough) and it's a whole new ballgame. An email at that point is too little, way too late.

[brgillespie]

*shrugs* Different folks, different reactions.

Keep in mind that she's all "you're alive!" until the subject of Cerberus comes up. Then Ashley (or Kaidan) are like, "Wait, dude... you're working for the enemy?!"

Modifié par brgillespie, 11 février 2010 - 09:42 .

[1490]

Tali was always my favorite NPC from the first game, but I defended Ashley when most people seemed to dislike her.   She was a bit prejudiced, but I think by the end of the game she started to ease up a bit.  And, I think she was a good example of a strong, independent woman, and I think we need more examples of that these days.

Here's what decided my vote though:

When I meet Tali, she wants to join up with me even though I'm with Cerberus now; Ash does not.  Let's look at what could motivate them:

-Ashley may be biased against Cerberus because they've gone rogue from the alliance and done some bad things to other people, but they never did anything to her or her associates specifically.  Tali, on the other hand, has every right to distrust Cerberus, because they snuck into the Migrant Fleet and mercilessly killed a bunch of innocent Quarians. 
-Ashley feels she does not want to join Shepard because she has a dedication to the Alliance.  Fact: the Alliance isn't doing crap to help with the Reaper invasion or the Collectors, which she is aware of and must know is important.  Then there's Tali, who has much more riding on her being a daughter of a fleet admiral and helping them to decipher geth technology that could help improve their lives.
-Ashley feels Shepard betrayed the Alliance, giving him no chance to explain that he was DEAD and couldn't do anything about it if he wanted to.  Also, you'd think with an Ashley romance that she would give Shepard a bit more slack in explaining himself.  Tali was "abandoned" by Shepard too, but she gives him the benefit of the doubt.  

So while Tali has many greater and more important reasons for distrusting or abandoning Shepard than Ashley, she still puts aside her doubts and chooses to trust him.  At least Liara has a good reason for blowing Shepard off: she's going after the Shadow Broker, who is working with the Collectors (see ME comic).  I don't buy Ash's "the Alliance is more important than saving the galaxy" bid; it seems she's the selfish one rather than Shepard.  

In ME 1 Ashley was cool, but in ME 2 and into 3, I could give a sh*t less if she came back, because she blew Shepard off when he needed her the most.  I'll take Tali over Ashley any day

Modifié par 1490, 11 février 2010 - 10:00 .

[guru7892]

Ash had a right to be angry but what bothered me is that there wasn't really a chance to get things sorted out. her conversation really did raddle me a lot though. In a way I started to fell like I wasn't really recognizing my past. things like cerberus operations with Alenko and Akuze and stuff. It changed the way i played the game a little.

however I also just kinda fell in with tali and eneded up romancing her... ME3 is gonna be really complicated...

But on a more important note...

UnstableMongoose wrote...

brgillespie wrote...
 On top of that, this person did not try to contact her AND has reappeared at the forefront of Mass Effect's equivalent of Al Qaeda.

Demand turban armor and matching beard. 

I will Jihad for beard...
... the spice must flow!

[Sharn01]

Not going to quote each, but to previous poster's.



Tali never has acted and is not a child, if you dont like a character that is fine but stop making things up, and she does act more mature then Ash most of the time, she is just shy, which is not a personality trait that is accociated with age.



Liara is not a child, Asari do not age at the same rate as a human relative to their lifespan, most likely they grow to adulthood with in 30 or 40 years. Liara for instance has been an archaeologist for over 50 years, and she achieved a doctorate in archaeology, Dr Liara T'soni.

So unless she got her doctorate and started working and traveling the universe at the human equivelant of 9, Asari age at a different rate then humans do, so get over your self and have the nerve to say you do not like her and quite making crap up.



Ashley very much is a xenophobe/racist, you can not even argue it. You can give reasons all day long for why she feels the way she does, that does not change a thing, That just means she had something happen in her past that caused her to be racist, its still racist.

[Tooneyman]

I'm not going to lie. I created another shep so he would stay truly loyal to ashley. He didn't be mean to her though he is a renegade and hes been a total A to tali. Whats even funnier. The person who killed Wrex on Horizon was Ashley in that play through.. I'm sorry Ashley is cold blooded by nature. She is a solider in and out so you should expect the solider reaction. Tali is a traveler who a good heart. She knows how to handle herself, but she has petty for thoughs. When it comes to a fight her attitude would fail her. She may not take ashley's life and show her mercy. On the other hand. Ashley wouldn't show any. She would probably read her some peotry before she killed her though. =D

[GrimMaster]

Tali all the way.

One gave you the finger on Horizon, the other stayed by your side during BOTH suicide missions.

[Made Nightwing]

Sharn01 wrote...

Not going to quote each, but to previous poster's.<br />
<br />
Tali never has acted and is not a child, if you dont like a character that is fine but stop making things up, and she does act more mature then Ash most of the time, she is just shy, which is not a personality trait that is accociated with age.<br />
<br />
Liara is not a child, Asari do not age at the same rate as a human relative to their lifespan, most likely they grow to adulthood with in 30 or 40 years. Liara for instance has been an archaeologist for over 50 years, and she achieved a doctorate in archaeology, Dr Liara T'soni.<br />
So unless she got her doctorate and started working and traveling the universe at the human equivelant of 9, Asari age at a different rate then humans do, so get over your self and have the nerve to say you do not like her and quite making crap up.<br />
<br />
Ashley very much is a xenophobe/racist, you can not even argue it. You can give reasons all day long for why she feels the way she does, that does not change a thing, That just means she had something happen in her past that caused her to be racist, its still racist.

Ah...dude, Liara admits that she is considered a child by most asari standards. She is simply just more mature for her age than most other asari. Asari aren't considered full adults till they get to around two hundred. That's Drew Karpyshn speaking, not me.

lol, you're adorable. You can't even tell the difference between racism and nationalism. Let me explain to you how it works. Racism is hating/fearing/distrusting an ethnic group just because they're different. Ashley doesn't see it like that. She sees the aliens in Mass Effect like the Western world sees countires like China, and used to see Russia during the Cold War. We can get along with them if we have to, we even trade with them. But at the end of the day, we know that their aims and goals differ from ours. We know that they're always going to look out for their own interests first and ours last. We don't blame them for that, but we want to be ready for when it happens.

Ashley is just sensible enough to see this. If she was truly a racist, then why did she say things to Tali like: "I don't understand why people hate quarians," and "I hope this mission will help change people's perception of your people."

Contrast that to Garrus, who says "Your people have caused a lot of misery and bloodshed, Tali. I hope they are properly contrite." Now THAT is racism.