114 réponses à ce sujet

[BLACKOUT228]

Plain and simple, they do it because as Vigil said in the first, they came in through the Citadel so they kill all government, take control of the relay network, and get each star system singled out. They need to do it so they can pick off each system one by one. They don't want the entire galaxy uniting against them, which would probably cause them to suffer more casualties than they want. Look how many humans it took just to make a baby reaper. You think they wanna build 50 more?

[OpDDay2001]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

gamergamergamer wrote...

lol the thing that i dont get is that if the reapers could just fly into the galaxy why did they bother with the collectors and saren plots. infact why even need the surprise attack relay on the citadel at all

The same reason remote controls were invented, because they're lazy.

The Citadel-relay was simply a quick effective way to get back into the galaxy, it was also key to their plan as explained by Vigil, they attack the Citadel first which is the seat of galactic power and that leaves all the races of the galaxy scrambling to figure out wtf is going on.

Not only that but it makes the most sense since the Reapers are not All-Powerful and immortal. Shepard, with the combined might of just the Council Races Fleet and the Alliance Fleet, brought down one pretty quickly (though with heavy losses). Another was found destroyed, deserted, and 'brain-dead' on the edge of the gravitational well of a brown dwarf. It was persumably destroyed when it crashed into the core of the giant failed star. They don't feel they can be beaten, but they don't want to take the heavy losses that would come from a prolonged battle with all the sentient races of the Galaxy. Even with their vast numbers, they can be destroyed. A logical machine would want to reduce that risk, even if the risk is minimal in the first place. To do that the Relay system was the best choice. It was quick, efficient, and cut off the head, making resistance futile.

Anyway, you figure that every space-faring sentient race in the Galaxy uses Reaper Tech (in some form), so the longer the take the greater the chances are that the races of the galaxy become stronger and much harder to cull. Sovereign (and Legion when quoting Sovereign) had said that space-faring races evolve in 'predictable' ways because they use Reaper (and presumably Prothean) technology. That doesn't mean they can't exceed expectations or become a threat. Besides... I think that the Reapers have a reason to do what they are doing. I think it plays into Dark Energy. Reapers probably save the galaxy every 50,000 years by purging it of all sentient/sapient life because use of Mass Effect and other such things for prolong periods of time cause dark energy build-up. Who knows, there may yet be something worse and more dangerous than the Reapers out there. >.>

[Sereaph502]

Some of you don't seem to get it.



"oh if they could fly here why did they bother having soverign try and get the citadel?"



Because if they attack the citadel first, then the rest of the galaxy is helpless. meaning it's easy for the reapers to destroy all life.



Now that soverign is gone, they HAVE to fly here. They'd rather take the shortcut through the citadel, but that was cut off. Now they have no choice.



And chances are they used up a lot of power in the process, meaning they'll probably be weaker. Plus, all life will be able to communicate better against them.

[marshalleck]

Sereaph502 wrote...

Some of you don't seem to get it.

"oh if they could fly here why did they bother having soverign try and get the citadel?"

Because if they attack the citadel first, then the rest of the galaxy is helpless. meaning it's easy for the reapers to destroy all life.

Now that soverign is gone, they HAVE to fly here. They'd rather take the shortcut through the citadel, but that was cut off. Now they have no choice.

And chances are they used up a lot of power in the process, meaning they'll probably be weaker. Plus, all life will be able to communicate better against them.

No, I understand that that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I understand very well why they make the Citadel a trap.

The point is this--if it were so easy for them to just fly back to the galaxy, there's no reason Sovereign should have been so desperate to engage the Citadel that it would be willing to expose their existance.

Let's not forget that Mass Effect is Shepard's story. The game takes place in Shepard's lifetime. That means if the Citadel isn't necessary, the Reapers have to be able to traverse intergalactic distances within a timespan of years--not even decades. If intergalactic distance is so trivial, there's no reason to risk blowing their entire surprise attack on trying to take back a malfunctioning mass relay and there's no reason for any of the first game's plot devices to exist in the first place.

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 février 2010 - 07:16 .

[Mabari Owns High Dragon]

I literally just finished it 20 seconds ago. They are definatly flying TOWARDS us.

[Sharn01]

I will finish another play through soon but it seemed to me they where sitting in dark space waiting and not moving at all.

[RavenholmeCP42]

marshalleck wrote...

Sure, you can say they're on their way. But even that is figurative, unless you believe they are literally flying back to the galaxy.

Once again to recap this problem: either they need a relay or they don't. Remember, they don't want humans 100,000 years from now, not 1,000 years from now. They want humans NOW.

So if they need the relay: they're kinda screwed and pissed off at Shepard at the moment, and working a contingency plan--which they've likely developed many of, having done this extinction thing many times over millions of years.

If they don't need the relay: why did Sovereign exist and why was there a Mass Effect 1 at all?

Dark Space is huge, they could be a mere few years out from the edge of the galaxy through their ordinary FTL Drives and still be impossible to find.

It's not figurative, they are coming back, and have been since before ME1. Since Sovereign's first attempt with the Keeper's failed, in fact, since the Collector's/Harbinger would have witnessed that piece of fail on his part. Since they created the Relays, they probably just towed their end of the citadel relay with 'em. That fail is what necessitated Sovies need to rely on Saren and the Geth, which started several years before ME1 (Maybe even just after the events of ME Revelation)

[marshalleck]

Okay, if they are already flying back at FTL since before ME1, why did Sovereign try to open the relay from a location in dark space that the Reaper fleet no longer occupies?

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 février 2010 - 07:28 .

[Vicious]

It's not rocket science and easily explainable without plot contrivances. They were sitting around. Sovy died, and they said, screw it we're not just going to wait out here.



Also, I discount everyone saying they are coming back on 'regular/standard FTL drives.' These guys literally have a billion + years of advancement, [the Leviathan of Dis corpse found in the Terminus systems for example was at least a billion years old.



So, i'm sure nothing they have is 'regular/standard.'





That said, as previous people have already said, there was NEVER ANY LACK OF CERTAINTY THE REAPERS WOULD FIND A WAY BACK. The ending of ME1 makes it CLEAR that THEY ARE COMING.



So I don't see what people are being confused about.

[marshalleck]

I'm not saying they aren't working on a way back. I'm saying I doubt their plan is as simple as "LOL let's fly back, it will only take a few weeks to travel ~100,000 light years"

If that's the best Bioware can come up with, it's pathetic and it ruins the premise of the first game.

That they are shown massing and moving toward the galaxy is figurative; they are planning their return. That doesn't mean they're literally limping back into town.

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 février 2010 - 07:36 .

[Fishy]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Sure, you can say they're on their way. But even that is figurative, unless you believe they are literally flying back to the galaxy.

Once again to recap this problem: either they need a relay or they don't. Remember, they don't want humans 100,000 years from now, not 1,000 years from now. They want humans NOW.

So if they need the relay: they're kinda screwed and pissed off at Shepard at the moment, and working a contingency plan--which they've likely developed many of, having done this extinction thing many times over millions of years.

If they don't need the relay: why did Sovereign exist and why was there a Mass Effect 1 at all?

Here's a good analogy, the relay for the Reapers was the equivalent of a star athelete running down to the store or driving his car, sure he COULD run down to the store no problem, he's physically capable of doing it without any problem, but why bother when he could just drive there?

Because They are at minimum 100,000 light Years away from the milky Way?Mass Relay allow space travel ... Human discovered FTL before the mass Relay(Like biotic) . By discovering the beacon on Mars.

And the other reason it's because it's would be practically impossible to travel for 100 years in space ..Think about food,Water and fuel and also hmm .. aging and travel route.

Yeah the reaper maybe don't have this problem .Yeah it's a video game.. But still .. That just seem impossible..

Modifié par Suprez30, 02 février 2010 - 07:40 .

[RavenholmeCP42]

Vicious wrote...

It's not rocket science and easily explainable without plot contrivances. They were sitting around. Sovy died, and they said, screw it we're not just going to wait out here.

Also, I discount everyone saying they are coming back on 'regular/standard FTL drives.' These guys literally have a billion + years of advancement, [the Leviathan of Dis corpse found in the Terminus systems for example was at least a billion years old.

So, i'm sure nothing they have is 'regular/standard.'


That said, as previous people have already said, there was NEVER ANY LACK OF CERTAINTY THE REAPERS WOULD FIND A WAY BACK. The ending of ME1 makes it CLEAR that THEY ARE COMING.

So I don't see what people are being confused about.

I said THEIR ordinary FTL drives, those are probably six times as fast as Citadel race ones.

[Vicious]

Thanks for clarifying.

[Hokochu]

My question is how the Reapers could use the Citadel's mass relay if they don't have one to use on there end or... how Harbinger could communicate with something in the center of the galaxy...

[fusilero1]

Vicious wrote...

Doubt it's figurative. Kind of removes the whole 'unite the galaxy against the Reapers' bit which will probably be ME3.

That said, at first it seemed to me that Reapers were started by one alien race [the first] who decided that instead of dying they could pool their genetic history into one single mind and thus live forever, and then they got lonely and so decided to "save" other species by making them into Reapers, who in turn continue the cycle.

But all the current Reapers with the exception of The Terminator[tm] all look like giant Calamari, so apparently there's only one kind. So destroyed my initial theory. Now I just hope I never find out because the answer will probably disappoint.

Well, yes, but they all look slightly different. In the last cutscene they don't all look like sovereign, but each seem to have minor differences.

Who says Calamari based life hasn't been dominant for the last several million years?

[Katnap Devikat]

Whats more interesting is that every reaper was the same or similar to Nazara(Sov), does this mean that the first species they conquered (their creators most likely) were either sentient squid or just big stupid jellyfish.

[Sir_Cabbage]

their goal could be a outer galaxy mass relay. I mean, just because the one DIRECTLY TO THE CITIDEL is closed doesnt mean they cant use one of the ones on the edges of the universe. and at FTL that could mean they could systematically wipe out our places in the next couple of years

[PunkxRonin]

Ok, i realize this is a game, and there's a level of suspension of disbelief... I mean we can accept there are space dinosaurs with guns, and jelly-fish people... yet we're hooked on this is a bit funny to me.

That being said, the Milky Way Galaxy is roughly 100,000 light years in diameter. In the last scene it shows the Reapers flying in at a distance at which they can view the entire (or nearly the entire) galaxy... This means they are potentially millions of light years away, at the least a few hundred thousand.

Thus Marshalleck brings up a valid point. Even if the Reaper's goal is to reach the edge of the galaxy's rim, they have a few hundred thousand years of light speed equivalent travel. So even if they started moving 50,000 years ago, they still wouldn't be more then halfway to the Galaxy (if going light speed).

Now as some have stated they're billions upon billions of years old, and have advanced technology. Cool, so lets say their FTL speeds are sufficient to make this travel in less then a decade or other relevant time so Shepard will be alive to see these events. Then why did they leave any one behind? Why did they need the collectors to go stealing people on rim worlds? Why bother letting your prey discover your presence? If you can travel that fast, why not just roll up and kill every one.

It doesn't make any sense in context with what we've seen so far. Do I think it was figurative? No i think they are literally flying toward us. How that works in terms of logic, and crazy sci-fi physics... I don't know. Lets just call it Space-Magic and call it a day.

*Edit*  For the record, my bet on the answer to the crazy space-magic has something to do with the dark energy and stars as was stated earlier. They make a big deal about it and it's never fully explained.  Plus TIM's office is watching a star that's red/orange in the center at the begining of the game, and blue at the end.  Stars only change color when changing in their life-cycles.*Edit*

Modifié par PunkxRonin, 02 février 2010 - 09:07 .

[HrznKn]

If the reapers could reach the milky way using their own drives in a reasonable amount of time they wouldn't have needed the citadel relay in the first place.

[ajlueke]

fusilero1 wrote...

Vicious wrote...

Doubt it's figurative. Kind of removes the whole 'unite the galaxy against the Reapers' bit which will probably be ME3.

That said, at first it seemed to me that Reapers were started by one alien race [the first] who decided that instead of dying they could pool their genetic history into one single mind and thus live forever, and then they got lonely and so decided to "save" other species by making them into Reapers, who in turn continue the cycle.

But all the current Reapers with the exception of The Terminator[tm] all look like giant Calamari, so apparently there's only one kind. So destroyed my initial theory. Now I just hope I never find out because the answer will probably disappoint.

Well, yes, but they all look slightly different. In the last cutscene they don't all look like sovereign, but each seem to have minor differences.

Who says Calamari based life hasn't been dominant for the last several million years?

Well, even the derelict reaper which is apparently millions of years old looks the same as the modern reapers, and the galaxy has probably been harvested close to a thousand times in that span.  Yet, all the different sentient species that have been harvested have not produced different looking reapers.  It could be the the reapers were deliberately  constructing a human reaper as the new vanguard, simply because it was humans the prevented the success of the old vanguard, and altered protheans would help in the creation since their meddling prevented the signal from working to begin with.  So it does seem that the reapers still require a vanguard to open the citadel relay, but their choice of vanguard seems to be a little ironic, as protheans and humans prevented their return, so they then should be the ones to aid in bringing it about.
Also, according to Vigil, the Reapers go to dark space to hibernate and conserve energy.  They are vulnerable in this state, so they go to dark space as to not be discovered and destroyed.  If they are already conserving energy, it is highly unlikely that they would just be able to fly back such a vast distance.  Harbinger also tells the Collector general as he leaves that "they will find another way"  which i assume means another way back from dark space.
When you talk to Sovreign, he says the Reapers are without beginning and end.  And when you ask why the galaxy is harvested "resources?  Slaves?"  He says "My kind transcends your very understanding, you cannot even grasp the nature of our existence".  But if all they are doing is harvesting the galaxy for energy and reproduction, that isn't really that hard to grasp is it?

[AngryTigerP]

HrznKn wrote...

If the reapers could reach the milky way using their own drives in a reasonable amount of time they wouldn't have needed the citadel relay in the first place.

Are you people INTENTIONALLY ignoring the point?

The point of the CR isn't so that they can get to the Milky Way, it is so that they can enter it in a location that allows them to cut off the head of the Galaxy's government. Doing so makes their job much easier. Granted, it is obviously faster than just flying towards the Milky Way, but the efficiency of travel isn't the point.

[asaiasai]

The citadel is the whole key that makes all the mass relays work. That is why taking the citadel is tactical decision number one for the reapers. The information is a bonus but when you have to travel at FTL speeds to get from one star cluster to another, as you would have to with out the relays it will really crimp your ability to retaliate. Fleet battles is manouver war if you can hit the enemy before they can concentrate thier forces you fight an outgunned/outnumbered opponent every time. No relays would make it almost impossible for the Alliance to put up any concentrated resistance. As you saw in ME the reapers are not invincible enough concentrated firepower and they go boom like any other ship. The Alliance has ships and worlds scattered all over the galaxy and they rely on the relays to move around, remove the relays (taking the citadel) and you remove the Alliances ability to move, and then it is all mop up.



Asai

[Barker673]

Shepard will be a grandpa by the time the Reapers get to the Milky Way and Tali, Ash, Miranda, Liara and Jack will all be carrying his babies.

[wulf3n]

Barker673 wrote...

Shepard will be a grandpa by the time the Reapers get to the Milky Way and Tali, Ash, Miranda, Liara and Jack will all be carrying his babies.

lol then the reapers really have something to fear...an army of super sheps.