26 réponses à ce sujet

[magicturtle]

I played through once as a Dwarf dual wield warrior. Now I am playing through as a duelist rogue. Bad idea. My guy is a wimp. He can deal out damage ok but he dies all the time. Just going after the Urn of ashes I have died at least six times in the first set of tunnels. IT even seems like Alistair and Shale are wimpy to. As my dwarf warrior dual wield I kicked butt, I was beating Alpha ogres in a few hits. I really don't want to start over with a human just to get a guy that can take a hit or two. Oh well maybe its not too late to switch focus to Bow.

[DJ0000]

I had the same problem with my rogue dw...I quit. I hate rogue's.



Anyway, if you are having the same problem as I did it may just be a case of you needing to pump con a little as you seem to have been pumping your attacking stats a lot. I only had 12 con at level 9 so I could deal plenty damage but not take any so your problem may be similar. I thought dex would make up for con.......I was wrong.

[soteria]

I disagree with DJ, actually. A cunning rogue is fragile, true, but they deal loads of damage once you get 30-40 dex, 20 str, and the rest in cunning. If you split points into con, you will raise your survivability very little and just end up doing crappy damage as well. By the end of the game, you can be dealing 60+ damage backstabs even if you don't really max out your gear and stats.



Make sure you're raising Alistair's dexterity. What level are you, going after the Urn? That's a level 10+ area.

[Realmzmaster]

magicturtle and DJ,

what kind of rogues are you building. If you are trying to build and use you rogues like warriors that is a non-starter. Are you building a dex or cun rogue? Raising dexterity raises your rogues defense making the rogue harder to hit.

Even with a cunning rogue you need to raise dex and cun. You need just enough strength to wear certain items and enough con to survive. If you dex is high con is not essential.You will not survive if you play the rogue like a warrior.

You need to make use of stealth, dirty fighting, below the belt, deadly strike etc.

DW rogues should not be played like DW warriors.

Think of it this way in the words of Muhammand Ali:

float like a butterfly, sting like a bee

they cannot hit, what they cannot see

that is how you play a rogue.

[MisterBellyButtonMan]

Evasion and dex add to survivability. Honestly I didn't take duelist. I took bard with assassin seeing as the bard abilities use cunning as do the assassin abilities. It is difficult to start with a rogue though, at least it was for me. I have many injuries to prove that playing them like a warrior is difficult. I would suggest getting lethality as fast as possible followed by coup-de-grace. Use poisons and runes to paralyze or stun your opponents. Backstab enemies and sneak around them. Stealth 3 is another skill I would get ASAP. Most of my injuries occurred when I held off getting stealth 3 and was unable to "disappear" in combat. Being able to get backstab damage as often as possible is the key. If you have decent dex, the flat 1 out of 5 chance evasion gives you for an attack to completely miss mitigates a lot of damage.



This brings up a question, has anyone ever bothered to feign death? It seems that stealth works for this purpose 90% of the time. I suppose that's a tad off topic.



Anyhow, If I could roll back time on this game I would probably not take the dual-wield talents with the exception of the first one that allows the full damage bonus and momentum only and instead take all of the assassin and bard abilities and beef up the rogue in that fashion.

[AlgolagniaVolcae]

soteria wrote...

By the end of the game, you can be dealing 60+ damage backstabs even if you don't really max out your gear and stats.

90+ if you do max out gear, and stats. If you play a dwarven rogue there isn't even a need to boost constitution, they get a natural +2 from the start , +2 from the fade, +2 from Andruil's Blessing, +2 from the Key to the city, and +10 from Lifegiver for a total of 28 (30 if you wear the Helm of Honnleath or Helm of the Deep).

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

This brings up a question, has anyone ever bothered to feign death? It seems that stealth works for this purpose 90% of the time. I suppose that's a tad off topic.

Nope, because Master Stealth with good cunning has worked 100% of the time for me. 

[MisterBellyButtonMan]

Yeah that's what I thought. There's a couple of bosses that Stealth hasn't worked for dropping aggro for me but it's worked on everything else.

[magicturtle]

combats all seem to go way too fast for stealth. At least the way I have always seen stealth applied in other games. I open a door and the bad guys swarm us. How does one use stealth, and backstab then.

[soteria]

It's only really useful once you get combat stealth. When you find yourself getting attacked, hit stealth, and when they turn around, you stab them in the back.

[Addai]

OP it's difficult to know how to advise you without seeing stats, skills etc. I play only rogues for melee characters, and my characters do not die. They kill anything in their way too quickly to die. I am guessing you are trying to build and equip a rogue too much like a warrior and thus not taking advantage of the unique and very powerful skills of the class. However, it's true that early on, warriors have an attack and constitution bonus. Rogues catch up quickly, though.

[Addai]

magicturtle wrote...

combats all seem to go way too fast for stealth. At least the way I have always seen stealth applied in other games. I open a door and the bad guys swarm us. How does one use stealth, and backstab then.

Before you get combat stealth, it is useful in large open areas rather than area or room transitions.  Say, dungeons like the Deep Roads or Wyrmling Lair or places like the Carta Hideout.

[AlgolagniaVolcae]

Even without combat stealth, it's possible to get close to enemies who have not detected you yet. Though it's only with Master Stealth that you can assassinate someone, stealth to break aggro from the entire room/group, and then assassinate the next target until you've soloed the entire area(such as Arl Howe's Estate).

The first two tiers of stealth allow you to get closer to hostile enemies if they don't detect you, the last two tiers of stealth simply allow you to try hiding when they do detect you. So during the casteless origin for instance, you can sneak both your rogue and Leske up behind two seperate targets when escaping and have them simultaneously backstab.

Modifié par AlgolagniaVolcae, 04 février 2010 - 11:27 .

[Lord Phoebus]

Did you go for a dex rogue or a cunning one? Dex rogues can take as much of a pounding as a DW warrior once you get a high enough defense, with cunning rogues you have to rely on others, since you can't take much of a pounding by yourself.

[Les Polar]

With the right level,armor,weapons(2) this rogue took down Flemmeth(red dragon) ,revenant,while the other party member were trying to stay alive!!!!!!!!!!!! There no wimp in there.

[DJ0000]

Realmzmaster wrote...

magicturtle and DJ,
what kind of rogues are you building. If you are trying to build and use you rogues like warriors that is a non-starter. Are you building a dex or cun rogue? Raising dexterity raises your rogues defense making the rogue harder to hit.
Even with a cunning rogue you need to raise dex and cun. You need just enough strength to wear certain items and enough con to survive. If you dex is high con is not essential.You will not survive if you play the rogue like a warrior.
You need to make use of stealth, dirty fighting, below the belt, deadly strike etc.
DW rogues should not be played like DW warriors.
Think of it this way in the words of Muhammand Ali:
float like a butterfly, sting like a bee
they cannot hit, what they cannot see
that is how you play a rogue.

I was going for lots of dex and some strength but the real problem was that as I'm playing on PS3 I need to add dex for weapon talents and str to be able to do reasonable damage so there are few points to add to cunning or con.

Plus, everytime I backstabbed someone everyone would instantly turn away from Alistair and target me, even with threaten and taunt there was no way for me to keep them off me. Then I got thrown into the fade with little survivability and no help. With either a mage or warrior the fade is easy but with a rogue I was wasting health poultices.

[Les Polar]

DJOOOO, I have mages (Morigan or Wynne) set up as damagers agressives,tanks set up as scappers agressivies and this rogue attack and move if the fiend turn on meIIIIIIIIII Wynne can mass group heal when necessary.It is never easy fights but works for me.WIth all the upgrade from the FADE (attributes) magic enhance weapons with runes, support from party,salves,potions I do use it all and pause when I want change a move from different party menber.Sorry it took so long to reply,I went for a snuzzzzzzzzzz.

[MisterBellyButtonMan]

DJ Once you get lethality your cunning replaces your strength for damage. So there is little need to place a lot of points in strength except to wear the better leather armors. Also if you switch to daggers they take your dex bonus into account for damage.

Dropping to leather armor will help you with aggro. Setting your tank to keep threaten and taunt up in auto tactics also helps. In Lothering you can purchase the amulet of accord which reduces aggro. Stealth 3 is another way of saying "Combat Stealth". If you have high cunning, stealth 3 will drop aggro almost all the time; its cooldown is small and you can use it over and over again in long fights.

Modifié par MisterBellyButtonMan, 04 février 2010 - 07:35 .

[DJ0000]

I did wear leather armour, Alistair was using threaten and taunt, I did have reduce holstility and still everyone turned to me. I have no idea why but they had no interest in anyone but me.



Also, on PS3 dex doesn't affect dagger damage as it is supposed to.



I'll probably just come back to later and tough it out to level 20 so I can get the trophy.

[MisterBellyButtonMan]

Fine than simply get lethality. Strength is a waste of points. Some people like to go all cunning, I myself like to have some dex and con. To each their own in that respect but strength over 24 points or so is a waste of points. With high cunning, lethality, and stealth 3 or 4 you should be able to avoid aggro and do plenty of damage. Remember that cunning increases your ability to pick locks, lay traps, the chance for you to stealth out of combat, bard abilities (if you have them), assassin abilites (if you have them). So even if strength is the only damage modifier this is reversed when you get lethality. There is very little reason to put points into strength unless you want to wear some of the better armors early on in the game.



If you do the circle tower quest first you may not need to put in any points at all. Especially with the Key to the City, the Helm of Honnleath, the Warrior's Ring, and the Harvest festival ring. You can do the circle tower first, do Honnleath second, and just run around Orzammar to find the scrolls for the Key to the City without completing the main storyline (unless of course you want to), and by the time you get to a level where stats start to matter for strength you'll have more than enough.



In any case once you get at least stealth 3 and have decent cunning you shouldn't die often. I wish I had picked it up sooner with my Rogue since most of my injuries occurred before I had it.

[Lord Phoebus]

Without the dex fix, you could go 30 dex, 30 cunning and everything else in strength, put your rogue in massive armor and dual wield daggers. With a highish armor score (mid 30s), good attack score and good damage, this kind of Rogue will work well enough. The high cunning rogue will work better if you're going to micromanage him, but if you just want to leave your rogue on autopilot this type of rogue does work.

[RavenousBear]

Without reading the guides and forums for this game, my first character (Dwarf Rogue) went with a somewhat even balance of strength, dexterity, and cunning with massive armor (Blood Dragon & Cailan's Armor) and he did fine with only 2 injuries in the end (one from the "camp" at the Brecillian Forest) and reached lvl 24 without shoving a ton of elfroots in the allied supply crate. I made a few mistakes in the talent tree (did not pick up Lethality and had Coup De Grace at the very end) but it was not that hard really. Rogues can be a flexible class if you know what you are doing. I love playing rogue and play on doing a slightly different build, with around 26 strength (to equip Cailan's Armor, which I find to be vastly underrated on the forums/or Blood Dragon Armor) 54-58 dexterity and 53-57 cunning for an some defense and some damage with Lethality.

[Zecele]

combats all seem to go way too fast for stealth. At least the way I have always seen stealth applied in other games. I open a door and the bad guys swarm us. How does one use stealth, and backstab then.

You can interact with objects while stealthed. So you either:

a) Open the door with your rogue and let the baddies walk by.
Lead into a room with your tank, not your rogue.

My rogue is always the first one around a corner or in a room. I use the "hold" command when I reach a corner/door, stealth, and then go around with my rogue. Position him behind the archers/mage and then take of the hold command. Once my tank rounds the corner (and the mobs flock to him) I go to town with the rogue.

If you build them right you can make it so you almost don't get hit.

Modifié par Zecele, 08 février 2010 - 03:54 .

[Raze48]

I found the best combo that worked for me, because I kinda like to play my Rogue like a DW Warrior, was going 30 Cun/Max Dex, getting Coup-de-Gras ASAP and sticking Paralysis Runes in my weapons, along with setting up Morrigan to be a Controller with alot of Paralize/Stun spells. Worked WONDERS... Most times in a large group of 5+ enemies I end up killing 4 of them before my other guys kill one, which is damn fast.



Max Dex+Paralysis Runes+Morrigan as Controller+Coup-De-Gras = Awesome DW Warrior-like Rogue.

[Raze48]

Also should note I have over 125 Defense/Attack non-buffed I think and almost never get hit, ever. Like, ever.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

I party hold-ed everyone, stealthed up behind a key target (mages or archers usually), hit party free roam, backstabbed, and it worked alright for me. now I'm soloing a fair bit, and a 2 dex / 1 cun boost almost every level works well for me.

With the fade bonuses from Broken Circle, you only need to get your str to 16 for the best light armor. maybe put a couple more points into it later on for medium armor. as for abilities, I say avoid Feign Death always. avoid the last DW passive, evasion, and the middle tree of DW, those 3 at least until end end-game where you might have a couple of extra points.

Coup de Grace, Lethality, and Combat Stealth should be the talents to aim for first. my experience with rogues, at least, is basically this ^. rogues are all about doin' it from behind and getting the jump on the enemy. hopefully you eliminate a key threat or two before they can really do anything.

Modifié par yasuraka.hakkyou, 08 février 2010 - 10:21 .