366 réponses à ce sujet

[Shockwave81]

In ME1 you were either 'hot on the heels' of (or in direct confrontation with) Saren throughout the main story.

In ME2 I was wandering around the Normandy and overheard crew talking about another colony (Ferris Fields) that had been raided by the Collectors - why the hell did random soldier/floor sweeper know about something so pertinent instead of the actual player? Why wasn't there a side quest to rush to the scene to discover more about the Collectors' machinations in the process?

Nope, I'd rather read emails and fight Blue Suns mercs on a captured space freighter.

Modifié par Shockwave81, 17 février 2010 - 05:59 .

[Rilke21]

BobbyTheI wrote...


Came in to say something similar, and yeah, this attitude really annoys the hell out of me.  With that said, the manifesto of the Untrue Fan:

I apologize that I actually enjoyed this game.  I'm sorry that I'm obviously not a "true fan" because I didn't choose to spend weeks after its release complaining about everything they left out, and how it makes the game completely botched and unplayable.  

Obviously, even though I've been playing BioWare games since the original Baldur's Gate, I don't know a thing about what makes a good RPG, and so my enjoyment of this game just proves how completely dumb I am.  I'm just a Halo-loving, Gears-of-War adoring fanboy (even though I found both games tedious and never bothered to finish them) because I prefer a game that doesn't feature 1000 possible inventory items, 950 of which I will never even use.

I'm sorry that, even though I agree with about 99% of all professional game reviewers, I am totally misguided, and have lost sight of what makes a truly good game.  Because as we all know, game reviewers don't know a thing about what makes a game fun, unless they actually give a middling review of the game, in which case we must enshrine them as if they were prophets.

I'm sorry that I actually trust BioWare, a company whose games I have consistently enjoyed (although Jade Empire was a bit of a chore, but now I digress), and don't have an image in my mind of a bunch of sinister, cackling villains, just waiting for the chance to go, "Hey, I know what let's do!  Let's make a game that every single one of our 'true fans' will completely hate!  We'll strip out everything they love just because we HATE our fans so much, and fill it up with mindless shooting action!  Man, do I hate those people!"

For all these sins against true fandom, I apologize.  I pledge to continue playing Mass Effect 2 until such a time as I've found enough things to hate about it that I become a true fan again.  Or until Mass Effect 3 comes out and I lap it up like the mindless fanboy I am, whichever comes first.

Thanks Revan. Here's a repost for good measure...

"Apologies to Massadonius and Chained...I probably should have chosen my words more carefully. It's not my intention to insult, but I do feel that a "real" (or perhaps an old-school?) fan will take issue with the dumbing-down of what BioWare has perfected over a decade or two: the RPG elements that added so much to games like KOTOR, Baldur's gate, NWN...the list goes on. I slipped in the “real fan” barb because, in all honesty, I'm a little offended that a company that has never slipped from its founding principles "sold out" by streamlining something as brilliant as Mass Effect. To be clear, I’d probably consider myself a fan of Mass Effect 2 (I did just spend the last 33 hours of my life playing through every bit of content that it has.) I’m just a little upset with the new direction BioWare is taking, and I wanted to let them know that the old fans (which are no more real than the new fans) will probably agree with me."

[InTransit]

For those that are really ripping the story line, stating that a lot of the story mechanics are cop outs hack writers use to worm their way through a difficult scenario. or that there's no resolution.... you do realize that this is a trilogy? It's kind of like when Empire ends, you're wondering what is going to happen now that Luke has just found out that Vader is his father (I don't agree with the notion that the middle chapter is the weakest of a trilogy as more often the first chapter is almost always the most dull...events wise anyway).



I can think of a lot of movies, let alone games, who's shoddy writing and story fail to immerse the viewer/player like the writing in ME1 and ME2. The story that was told, that is the resurrection of Shepard and his/her mission to confront and stop the Collectors, was pretty complete. You assemble your team and complete the suicide mission... that's the end of that story arc (obviously your actions or lack thereof can siginificantly alter the resolution of your ME2 story). I apologize on behalf of Bioware if you were expecting more than that but I'm confident that more will be explained either by DLC or supplementary media...



Did any of you complaining actually read the books? Ascension and the comic book Redemption are the two most relevent to the ME2 plot but Revelations also adds insight to characters and events. Events that are actually mentioned in ME2 (The Quarians hatred for Cerberus comes to mind). This is a franchise where each separate piece of media culminates to further enhance the lore, universe and experience that is Mass Effect!



Anyway, to each their own. I'm sorry for you though if you can't get into the story for whatever reason. I'm not quite sure what it is that you were expecting or anticipating but if you really are that upset, perhaps you should compile your complaints into logical and concise feedback for Bioware so that they can either provide you with an explanation or possibly use it to better ME3 in the future. Otherwise, if you're going to complain about the game for the sake of complaining, perhaps you can one day learn to channel your energy into something more positive.



Cheers

[flatlander five]

For all these sins against true fandom, I apologize.  I pledge to continue playing Mass Effect 2 until such a time as I've found enough things to hate about it that I become a true fan again.  Or until Mass Effect 3 comes out and I lap it up like the mindless fanboy I am, whichever comes first.

Seriously! Reading these forums makes me feel bad for enjoying the game so much, even as an adept.

I wish people would understand that ME1 is still there, and it isn't going away. Whenever you feel the need to convert stuff to omni-gel, or crawl up vertical cliff faces you can load it up and do it until you're as blue in the face as a drowned Asari. 

You can nit-pick anything to death, even masterpieces. If you people are REALLY the RPG purist you claim then go whine to your dungeon master and shove a D20 where the sun doesn't shine.

The most important thing to remember is that the majority of these changes were made because of the incessant whining about ME1... You didn't like the inventory, the MAKO missions, combat, etc. Bioware listened, and we got what we have now... What happened? You're STILL complaining. Me-thinks that there is just no satisfying some people. My only hope is that TPTB takes all of this input with a grain of salt.

I think it is safe to say that more people like ME2 than hate it. That it has more things done WELL then done BADLY. That it is more fun that not fun. In the end, isn't that what matters? 

Keep up the good work Bioware... You've got this fan rooting for you.



TLDR: QQ haters

Modifié par flatlander five, 17 février 2010 - 06:10 .

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nozybidaj wrote...
Meh, the characters overall in ME2 didn't feel any deeper than the ME1 characters.  The format for interaction was exactly the same pretty much as ME1 with a tacked on loyalty mission (though I thought that were done acceptably well).

The loyalty missions were, for me, the real meat of ME2. While I'd be foolish to argue of your opinion of the ME1 squad's depth (as I said, only Wrex and maybe Ashley seemed like terribly interesting characters to me from the first), the ME1 characters were only interactible between missions and what was done with them in that time was adequate. That did not leave you much time to really get to know them. ME2 gave both twice as many actual dialogues with your crew, but a loyalty mission exclusively devoted to fleshing out their character as well as some aspect of the ME universe they were associated with. The Loyalty missions usually presented us with the largest moral problems It let us learn about the character while we were playing the game, instead of Bioware's last games in which we only learned about the character when we stepped outside it.

ME1 made the plot itself the most important part of the game while building up the universe around that plot. In ME2, the universe itself is the main character, with the plot almost incidentally being brought up with it. It was a sound decision from my perspective. The middle act of any trilogy is near universally the weakest, being the bridge between two acts (ESB not withstanding). So instead they got creative with the story telling and decided that instead of just being a bridge between the two acts, this middle of the trilogy would be their chance to delve in to the galaxy and its people. I like creative storytelling.

[Hawkman-X71]

I haven't bothered to read any of the above, save for the original post, so pardon any ditto-ing I may do. I've been trying to figure out why I don't really have any desire to replay the game any more, while ME1 (and to a greater extent, KOTOR) was a game I couldn't put down after countless times of hearing Faunts over the credits. What was written at the beginning of this thread... THAT is the reason. Those ARE the reasons. ME2 is a great game, simply for the story and voice acting alone. But once you know the story, there's little incentive to go back and play again, even for a second opposite-morality one, because the endgame choice is just the opposite of the first playthrough. The STORY depth is there, and that's enough to earn awards, but not enough to promote replays. In ME1 it was about getting the most badass armor, the most powerful gun, or finding the darkest corner of Planet X that brought me back time and again. Or the coolest lightsaber crystal, or most dashing robes in KOTOR. Those are the games that keep bringing me back. Why did I keep going? I already knew the story. I could quote the game! It was the depth that I found OUTSIDE of the story arc. The inventory, the collecting, and the joy of digging into conversations for the 100 exp. that I'd earn. Now I'm not saying go back to 4 minute long power cooldowns, or to bring back the old ME1 combat system (maybe the unlimited ammo...). Bring back the Role Playing to Mass Effect 3, and let's leave the fast-paced, no-depth, but-still-awesome, action-shooters to our Call of Dutys, and keep the RPG where it belongs. In my 360 until the next generation of console.

[Azazel005]

Rilke21 wrote...

Nobody bit on this suggestion the first time I made it, but what if the story of ME2 had focused on the Geth/Quarian conflict and eliminated the Collectors and the Governator Reaper entirely? In my opinion, Legion was the only excellent character in ME2, and the plot twist he threw in was the only interesting addition to the Mass Effect universe. I can imagine a far more compelling story (not to mention far more relevant Paragon/Renegade choices) in a game that focused on the Geth.

Thoughts? (Maybe this calls for a new post...)

Mordin wasn't interesting? Really?

Anyway to your point, the Quarian/Geth are important specifically as a potential Microcosm of the Organic/Reaper conflict. We can never be sure of the reapers origins after the insane length of time they existed its possibly they cannot even be sure.

Within the Geth we have a "machine" race we know there origins we know the threat they pose idelogically speaking and we know how the Quarians are struggling to deal with their creation and the threat itself. Is this how the Reapers began? Did there creators fail to meet that middle ground and that lead to their ultimate destruction? As well do the Geth HAVE souls? Do the Reapers? Are the quarians as right in their thinking as Shepherd is in his/hers of the Reapers?

We see a great divergence within Mass Effect 2, both within the idelogies of the Geth (those willing to embrace the elimination of organics by utilising Reaper tech and those willing to try and understand organics refusing the Reapers tech) and within the Microcosm itself (Geth seem accepting of the realities of their creation and wishing only to unify themselves vs the Reapers certain of their dominion and desiring to "absorb" the existence of organics).

It really does I think from a narrative parallel need to run side by side up until it's final result.

[Mallissin]

Dude, have you seen the Mona Lisa in person? It's freakin' ugly. They photoshopped all those photos in the art books to make it look better. It's really all wrinkly, old and stuff. They also don't show you the horde of smelly foreigners huddled around it. God, don't know why I bothered!



Wait, what are we talking about again? Oh, ME2....it was *okay*.

[ZennExile]

Hawkman-X71 wrote...

I haven't bothered to read any of the above, save for the original post, so pardon any ditto-ing I may do. I've been trying to figure out why I don't really have any desire to replay the game any more, while ME1 (and to a greater extent, KOTOR) was a game I couldn't put down after countless times of hearing Faunts over the credits. What was written at the beginning of this thread... THAT is the reason. Those ARE the reasons. ME2 is a great game, simply for the story and voice acting alone. But once you know the story, there's little incentive to go back and play again, even for a second opposite-morality one, because the endgame choice is just the opposite of the first playthrough. The STORY depth is there, and that's enough to earn awards, but not enough to promote replays. In ME1 it was about getting the most badass armor, the most powerful gun, or finding the darkest corner of Planet X that brought me back time and again. Or the coolest lightsaber crystal, or most dashing robes in KOTOR. Those are the games that keep bringing me back. Why did I keep going? I already knew the story. I could quote the game! It was the depth that I found OUTSIDE of the story arc. The inventory, the collecting, and the joy of digging into conversations for the 100 exp. that I'd earn. Now I'm not saying go back to 4 minute long power cooldowns, or to bring back the old ME1 combat system (maybe the unlimited ammo...). Bring back the Role Playing to Mass Effect 3, and let's leave the fast-paced, no-depth, but-still-awesome, action-shooters to our Call of Dutys, and keep the RPG where it belongs. In my 360 until the next generation of console.

This guy gets it.  I loved Gears.  I beat every Halo on Legendary got all the skulls, frags thousands upon thousands of "pro gamers" on Xbox live playin every mainstream shooter availible.  Love shooters.  Doom 1 DOS the original tech demo version = life changing moment.

But I love shooters for a very different reason than I loved playin Mass Effect.  Basically Bioware dipped the Shooter paint in the RPG paint and instead of making a sweet new color it's a brown splotch of what was probably food at one point.  ME1 was a sweet new color.  It coulda been more vibrant, absolutely without a doubt.  But it was its own entity.  That is why so many people loved it.  Not because it was both but because it felt like something entirely new.

ME2 is absolutley a Gears of War mod with good/evil dialogue options.  And the shooter inside me loves the combat.  But the ME1 fan in me is going "WTF YOU KILLED MY PRETTY COLOR YOU STUPID MOTHER ****ERS!!!!!!!!!!" And right after screaming that it reminds the shooter in me that "even Gears has sweet vehicles, and now both the shooter and the RPG are pissed off because there's no Mako.

THIS IS THE ISSUE.  Everything else you Rtards are yammering about is complete nonsense.

[Torhagen]

Rilke21 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 deserves quite a bit of the acclaim it’s getting. So why did playing it feel like a big BioWare boot to the teeth?

Fans of the original probably noticed right away that the second Mass Effect is a streamlined version of the first. Think Deus Ex 2: an unbroken system of levelling, character development and inventory management was “fixed” by eliminating it completely. (Granted, the inventory in the first Mass Effect was a little clunky, but it still got the job done.)

Killing enemies no longer provides experience. Neither does exploring the world, searching out codex entries, picking obscure dialogue options, finding rare items, interacting with your squad, or any of the other little details that sets an RPG apart from a shooter. For the most part, these details have been streamlined into the abyss. Where they’ve survived, there’s no longer an incentive to find them.

In the original Mass Effect, your character gets to choose from a list of 13 abilities. (This isn’t much compared to the 78 spells that mages can pick from in Dragon Age, but it’s not a bad selection.) Any of these powers can be unleashed on your enemies at any time, though once you’ve used a power you have to wait for it to recharge before you can use it again. In Mass Effect 2, you get to pick from 4 abilities. (Make that two if you’re playing as a soldier, since choosing your ammo hardly counts as a skill.) Using any of these powers makes the rest unusable until all of them recharge. Since only one or two of these powers is of any use in the first place, the chances are good that you’ll max out one skill and then spam it for the entire game. In effect, where the first game lets you use 13 powers in combat, the second lets you use 1. (I’d make a snarky comment about this exciting new development in tactical complexity, but I think you get the picture.)

The inventory is a pretty essential part of any RPG, and not just because it’s fun to hit the I-key and play dress-up with your characters. The reason inventories are important is because loot management sets RPGs apart from their mindless shooter brethren.  In Mass Effect 2 you’ll occasionally find new items (maybe five or six, but only if you blow 10 bucks on the DLC.) But because there’s no inventory there’s virtually no way to distinguish which gun does more damage, or which armor offers more protection. The only noticeable differences between the weapons in Mass Effect 2 are clip size and accuracy, but since each gun is about as effective as the other guns, you might as well just keep one for the entire game.

Mass Effect’s inventory went down the garburator, and half of the depth and fun of an RPG went with it. Most of you remember Diablo 2, a fairly simple game that was infinitely replayable because of the sheer depth of its item system. (Certain nerds have devoted the last 10 years of their lives to finding the next cool Diablo item. I in no way condone this behaviour, but it does say a lot about the importance of a decent item system.) My point is that much of the replayability of an RPG comes from finding new items, customizing your character with them, and enjoying how much of a badass you can become. When you take items and experience out of an RPG, you take away the incentive to develop your character. You take away half the incentive to play the game at all.

What makes up the other half of a great RPG? You guessed it...the story! And here is where Mass Effect 2 really fails to shine. Do you remember in Alien 3 when the survivors from the last movie are killed off in the first 20 seconds? It’s a plot device that writers fall back on when they’re either very strapped for time, or they just aren’t sure how to continue their last story.

The first Mass Effect introduced a brilliant new Sci-Fi universe that rivals Star Wars in its scope and creativity. In contrast, Mass Effect 2 starts off by blowing up the Normandy, killing or scattering the crew, and then magically bringing Shepard back from the dead. The rest of the story is pretty simple: Shepard rebuilds the crew, gains their loyalty (?), and then blows up a base. Game over, man. (We’re told a number of times that the crew is on a suicide mission. Unfortunately repeating “suicide mission” over and over  doesn’t make this story any more compelling.) Mass Effect 2 gleans what little narrative magic it has from riding on the coattails of its predecessor. Nothing new is added, and a lot is taken away. (To be fair, there’s one big exception here: the surprising development with the Geth is a very nice touch! If only the game’s ending made a shred of sense...)

Mass Effect 2 promised to incorporate the decisions you made in the first game into the story of the second. And it does. (In the form of trite little emails that Shepard receives from the forgettable NPCs of Mass Effect 1.) Remember Samesh Batia? Well you’ll be reminded. Or how about that Asari who got stuck in the Thorian? Yeah, you’ll get to do a pointless little quest for her, and then she’ll even flirt with you! Unfortunately, because there’s no reward for slogging through the dull side-quest dialogues, only true perfectionists will bother with the side-quests at all. The beauty of any good story is in the details. But when the details are thrown in as filler, and the story is nowhere to be found, they just detract from the whole experience.

Mass Effect 2 is not much of an RPG. So why does it deserve the praise that people have been throwing at it? The answer is that the game looks like a movie. (If you ignore the side quests and the left-half of the dialogue wheel, it even plays like a movie.) But the cinematic quality of the second game is nothing new to the Mass Effect series. And when you combine bare-bones plot with uninspired side-quests and depth-free combat, Mass Effect 2 just plays like a gutted version of the original. Lip service has been paid to what made the original Mass Effect great (the voice acting is mostly excellent and the combat is still good for the occasional adrenaline rush), but much of the substance of the origional has been removed. We’re left with a decent third-person shooter that is by no means a bad game. It’s just not what I expected from BioWare.

It’s probably apparent that I’m not a 16-year-old with an Xbox. I understand that mass (console) appeal makes money, and in principle there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m part of the old cabal of Bioware supporters, and I’ll probably buy Mass Effect 3 (even if they resurrect Sovereign as a renegade Hanar and have Shepard kick its butt in a boxing match.) BioWare is still at the top of my list of game developers. (After all, it’s nigh impossible to resent the company that released Dragon Age two months ago.)

That said, I’m writing this to remind BioWare of what makes a game great, and of what Mass Effect 2 is sadly lacking. For the real fans out there, maybe we’ll have better luck next time.

could not have put that in a better way 

[shaneho78]

ZennExile wrote...

This guy gets it.  I loved Gears.  I beat every Halo on Legendary got all the skulls, frags thousands upon thousands of "pro gamers" on Xbox live playin every mainstream shooter availible.  Love shooters.  Doom 1 DOS the original tech demo version = life changing moment.

But I love shooters for a very different reason than I loved playin Mass Effect.  Basically Bioware dipped the Shooter paint in the RPG paint and instead of making a sweet new color it's a brown splotch of what was probably food at one point.  ME1 was a sweet new color.  It coulda been more vibrant, absolutely without a doubt.  But it was its own entity.  That is why so many people loved it.  Not because it was both but because it felt like something entirely new.

ME2 is absolutley a Gears of War mod with good/evil dialogue options.  And the shooter inside me loves the combat.  But the ME1 fan in me is going "WTF YOU KILLED MY PRETTY COLOR YOU STUPID MOTHER ****ERS!!!!!!!!!!" And right after screaming that it reminds the shooter in me that "even Gears has sweet vehicles, and now both the shooter and the RPG are pissed off because there's no Mako.

THIS IS THE ISSUE.  Everything else you Rtards are yammering about is complete nonsense.

Guide to making an intelligent debate online

1) use of hyperbole with a good mix of vulgarities:

"ME2 is absolutley a Gears of War mod "
"WTF YOU KILLED MY PRETTY COLOR YOU STUPID MOTHER ****ERS!!!!!!!!!!"

2) calling people who disagree with you retards and their comments automatically qualifies as complete nonsense with no credit given whatsoever

3) thinking your personal opinion is the objective opinion, perhaps mistaking that there is such thing as an objective opinion


Before you go flaming me back, i want to say I totally get what you mean and why you dislike ME2 as opposed to ME1. I just didn't like how you and some posters regard your opinion to be the gospel truth and disregard the fact or possiblity that Bioware have their own artistic, financial or other reasons for making ME2 this way
( in other words, the game caters to more fans than just hardcore RPG fgamers simply because it is meant to be a different game from games like DAO or KOTOR)


Insisting that Bioware only makes games for your type of gamers is just being self-absorbed and selfish. Instead of wasting your time complaining about how BW has let you down, why not post constructive feedback to them on the ways to improve upon the game?

Majority of the regular posters here (i think we all got an idea of what regular means) do enjoy the game even if some of them do prefer ME1. Clicking on profiles of people such as Revan or Rilke shows them posting almost exclusively on threads that support their opinion that ME2 sucks

What makes a good story is often subjective. some people like the Matrix more than Gone with the Wind and vice versa. It doesn't necessarily mean that one of them is objectively better than the other.

Modifié par shaneho78, 17 février 2010 - 06:51 .

[Daeion]

ME2 has good things and bad things about it.



Am I pissed about the lack of an inventory? Yes

Am I pissed about not being able to customize my squad? Yes

Do I like that I can change to color of my armor? Yes

Do I hate the new combat? meh, it is what it is

Does this feel like a BioWare game to me? No



Everyone looks for different things in a game, even fans of the same game will look for different things. The sad truth though is that no one wants to compromise or believe that their opinion isn't the correct one.

[Rilke21]

Azazel005 wrote...

Mordin wasn't interesting? Really?

Anyway to your point, the Quarian/Geth are important specifically as a potential Microcosm of the Organic/Reaper conflict. We can never be sure of the reapers origins after the insane length of time they existed its possibly they cannot even be sure.

Within the Geth we have a "machine" race we know there origins we know the threat they pose idelogically speaking and we know how the Quarians are struggling to deal with their creation and the threat itself. Is this how the Reapers began? Did there creators fail to meet that middle ground and that lead to their ultimate destruction? As well do the Geth HAVE souls? Do the Reapers? Are the quarians as right in their thinking as Shepherd is in his/hers of the Reapers?

We see a great divergence within Mass Effect 2, both within the idelogies of the Geth (those willing to embrace the elimination of organics by utilising Reaper tech and those willing to try and understand organics refusing the Reapers tech) and within the Microcosm itself (Geth seem accepting of the realities of their creation and wishing only to unify themselves vs the Reapers certain of their dominion and desiring to "absorb" the existence of organics).

It really does I think from a narrative parallel need to run side by side up until it's final result.

Ok, Mordin was pretty cool

And here's the new post: http://social.biowar...5/index/1263396

I think it's time for bed...

[Rilke21]

shaneho78 wrote...

- majority of the regular posters here (i think we all got an idea of what regular means) do enjoy the game even if some of them do prefer ME1. Clicking on profiles of people such as Revan or Rilke shows them posting almost exclusively on threads that support their opinion that ME2 sucks

Dude. I took the time to write a guide on the Insanity difficulty, and I posted about a glitch with the Warp skill, but those threads died almost instantly.

What's the old saying about "assume" making an ass of something or someone?

[Edrick1976]

I agree with this post. I hope bioware reads this.

[SurfaceBeneath]

post deleted

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 17 février 2010 - 06:58 .

[shaneho78]

Rilke21 wrote...

shaneho78 wrote...

- majority of the regular posters here (i think we all got an idea of what regular means) do enjoy the game even if some of them do prefer ME1. Clicking on profiles of people such as Revan or Rilke shows them posting almost exclusively on threads that support their opinion that ME2 sucks

Dude. I took the time to write a guide on the Insanity difficulty, and I posted about a glitch with the Warp skill, but those threads died almost instantly.

What's the old saying about "assume" making an ass of something or someone?

Ok i apologize for making a false assumption, falling into the old trap of confirmation bias. I also believe calling someone an ass is always the most appropriate way to respond.

Modifié par shaneho78, 17 février 2010 - 06:57 .

[ZennExile]

shaneho78 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

This guy gets it.  I loved Gears.  I beat every Halo on Legendary got all the skulls, frags thousands upon thousands of "pro gamers" on Xbox live playin every mainstream shooter availible.  Love shooters.  Doom 1 DOS the original tech demo version = life changing moment.

But I love shooters for a very different reason than I loved playin Mass Effect.  Basically Bioware dipped the Shooter paint in the RPG paint and instead of making a sweet new color it's a brown splotch of what was probably food at one point.  ME1 was a sweet new color.  It coulda been more vibrant, absolutely without a doubt.  But it was its own entity.  That is why so many people loved it.  Not because it was both but because it felt like something entirely new.

ME2 is absolutley a Gears of War mod with good/evil dialogue options.  And the shooter inside me loves the combat.  But the ME1 fan in me is going "WTF YOU KILLED MY PRETTY COLOR YOU STUPID MOTHER ****ERS!!!!!!!!!!" And right after screaming that it reminds the shooter in me that "even Gears has sweet vehicles, and now both the shooter and the RPG are pissed off because there's no Mako.

THIS IS THE ISSUE.  Everything else you Rtards are yammering about is complete nonsense.

Guide to making an intelligent debate online

1) use of hyperbole with a good mix of vulgarities:

"ME2 is absolutley a Gears of War mod "
"WTF YOU KILLED MY PRETTY COLOR YOU STUPID MOTHER ****ERS!!!!!!!!!!"

2) calling people who disagree with you retards and their comments automatically qualifies as complete nonsense with no credit given whatsoever

3) thinking your personal opinion is the objective opinion, perhaps mistaking that there is such thing as an objective opinion


Before you go flaming me back, i want to say I totally get what you mean and why you dislike ME2 as opposed to ME1. I just didn't like how you and some posters regard your opinion to be the gospel truth and disregard the fact or possiblity that Bioware have their own artistic, financial or other reasons for making ME2 this way
( in other words, the game caters to more fans than just hardcore RPG fgamers simply because it is meant to be a different game from games like DAO or KOTOR)


Insisting that Bioware only makes games for your type of gamers is just being self-absorbed and selfish. Instead of wasting your time complaining about how BW has let you down, why not post constructive feedback to them on the ways to improve upon the game?

Majority of the regular posters here (i think we all got an idea of what regular means) do enjoy the game even if some of them do prefer ME1. Clicking on profiles of people such as Revan or Rilke shows them posting almost exclusively on threads that support their opinion that ME2 sucks

What makes a good story is often subjective. some people like the Matrix more than Gone with the Wind and vice versa. It doesn't necessarily mean that one of them is objectively better than the other.

Diffusion? Really?  You've got that little imagination.  You result by default to diffusion.  Off the cuff and out of context without regard to common courtesy or basic logic, you respond to me in the most over-the-top, stereotypical diffusion technique imaginable, and I'm to take you seriously?

 Bur Hur buddy, why you drunk without me?

Really though when you sober back up maybe edit that or make some grandios excuse for it.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

[Tokalla]

Rilke21 wrote...

Thanks Revan. Here's a repost for good measure...

"Apologies to Massadonius and Chained...I probably should have chosen my words more carefully. It's not my intention to insult, but I do feel that a "real" (or perhaps an old-school?) fan will take issue with the dumbing-down of what BioWare has perfected over a decade or two: the RPG elements that added so much to games like KOTOR, Baldur's gate, NWN...the list goes on. I slipped in the “real fan” barb because, in all honesty, I'm a little offended that a company that has never slipped from its founding principles "sold out" by streamlining something as brilliant as Mass Effect. To be clear, I’d probably consider myself a fan of Mass Effect 2 (I did just spend the last 33 hours of my life playing through every bit of content that it has.) I’m just a little upset with the new direction BioWare is taking, and I wanted to let them know that the old fans (which are no more real than the new fans) will probably agree with me."

In all fairness, that isn't much of an apology.  While you certainly apologized for for the insult, you then attempt to justify that "real" or "old school" fans would agree with your opinion.  In trying to justify the insult, you have merely repeated the it (effectively saying "sorry it insulted you, but real/old school fans would agree with me").  I find it likely that many who have brought this up did read your apology, but found it just as insulting due to your continued assertion that "old school" and/or "real" fans will share your opinion.  While I feel you were likely sincere in your apology, I honestly have never taken that "apology" to be a legitimate acceptance that your usage was inappropriate and wrong (which is what those real/old school fans who disagree expect in an actual sincere apology).

I have bolded the portion that I feel causes the issue.

Modifié par Tokalla, 17 février 2010 - 07:26 .

[Scottthesnow]

I actually missed the elevators. I know, it sounds crazy but this game had so little character interaction. Those were such delicious moments in the original when Grarrus and Wrex were in the elevator together. I could just feel the tension as I waited for a comment or more often...just waited in silence. I intentionally drug Tali and Legion around...and nothing. No witty banter, no scathing remark...not even tense body language.



This time I am going to try and take Legion to Tali's loyalty mission, but I doubt anything will happen. Its surprising that DAO and ME2 were developed side by side.

[Revan312]

shaneho78 wrote...

Majority of the regular posters here (i think we all got an idea of what regular means) do enjoy the game even if some of them do prefer ME1. Clicking on profiles of people such as Revan or Rilke shows them posting almost exclusively on threads that support their opinion that ME2 sucks

Well, I do mostly post in threads that are relevant to my point of view and opinion, you got me.  Cats out of the bag, if only I would have posted some false "I enjoyed it!" comments on some other threads I might have been able to move under the radar...

Hey, I just figure I spent 60 bucks on this game, I can't return it, so, I vent my frustration about what I feel went wrong and why, imo, it's not the "most amazing game ever created!!11!!" *shrugs*

[SurfaceBeneath]

Rilke21 wrote...
"Apologies to Massadonius and Chained...I probably should have chosen my words more carefully. It's not my intention to insult, but I do feel that a "real" (or perhaps an old-school?) fan will take issue with the dumbing-down of what BioWare has perfected over a decade or two: the RPG elements that added so much to games like KOTOR, Baldur's gate, NWN...the list goes on. I slipped in the “real fan” barb because, in all honesty, I'm a little offended that a company that has never slipped from its founding principles "sold out" by streamlining something as brilliant as Mass Effect. To be clear, I’d probably consider myself a fan of Mass Effect 2 (I did just spend the last 33 hours of my life playing through every bit of content that it has.) I’m just a little upset with the new direction BioWare is taking, and I wanted to let them know that the old fans (which are no more real than the new fans) will probably agree with me."

I have been a fan of this company ever since the original Baldurs Gate (which I first played at the ripe age of 13) and I think Mass Effect 2 is much much much smarter than the first Mass Effect. So, I wouldn't reccomend trying to speak for everyone who is a "old-school" fan.

By the way, my favorite games are:
1.) Planescape: Torment
2.) Xcom: UFO Defense
3.) Baldur's Gate 2
4.) Alpha Centauri

So don't tell me I think ME2 is brilliant because I am a fan of shooters or whatever the "new sh**" happens to be

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 17 février 2010 - 07:39 .

[Revan312]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

By the way, my favorite games are:
1.) Planescape: Torment
2.) Xcom: UFO Defense
3.) Baldur's Gate 2
4.) Alpha Centauri

So don't tell me I think ME2 is brilliant because I am a fan of shooters or whatever the "new sh**" happens to be

You not having Fallout 2 in that list invalidates everything you've ever said... jking

[General Battuta]

Same. Been with BioWare since original Baldur's Gate and I think ME2 is their best yet.



I recently replayed Mass Effect 1 and no, it's not deeper. It feels cheesy and kind of awful by comparison to ME2.