126 réponses à ce sujet

[Selvec_Darkon]

Behindyounow wrote...

"You have reached the 150 item limit. Please convert some items to omni-gel."

You miss that? Really?!

Easily solved. Add a rubbish bin like ultility to the captains cabin with features such as "delete all rank 3 items" etc etc.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Wygrath wrote...

God, I hope no one takes your whiny feedback into consideration while they are developing Mass Effect 3.

They took all the whiny jackholes about the inventory system to heart.  If we scream loud enough like they did we may actual have a decent system out of it.  I will not use Garrus because he runs around i9n only damaged armor.  I will not use Jack because she is always half naked.  I want the ability to give armor and proper protection to my party as I see fit and not just my character.

[DarthCaine]

Wygrath wrote...

God, I hope no one takes your whiny feedback into consideration while they are developing Mass Effect 3.

I hope they consider some of it (like adding armor for squad mates), but I hope they don't consider most of it

[Wygrath]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

Wygrath wrote...

God, I hope no one takes your whiny feedback into consideration while they are developing Mass Effect 3.

They took all the whiny jackholes about the inventory system to heart.  If we scream loud enough like they did we may actual have a decent system out of it.  I will not use Garrus because he runs around i9n only damaged armor.  I will not use Jack because she is always half naked.  I want the ability to give armor and proper protection to my party as I see fit and not just my character.

Jesus man... demanding much?

[D00MRoar]

rabidhanar wrote...

Welcome to the death of the RPG, have a nice day

Yes I hate this new system too. The worst part is the fact that you only need 1000 experience to ever level up. Their is no progressively larger xp bar. No idfference between level 1 - 2 and level 29 - 30. You are guarenteed to level up every time you finish a main mission in this game.

Death of the RPG? Dragon Age is one of the best RPG games ever made. So you are saying that because ME2 does not fall in line with traditional RPG's its not one? That does not make any sense. ME2 is an RPG in every way. I would agree its not a traditional RPG, but personally ME2 is refreshing for not binding itself to what players would call a traditional RPG.

[Wygrath]

Jorlen wrote...

Wygrath, you just have to realize not everyone feels the same as you about this game. I realize most people enjoy ME2 and I don't, but it doesn't make me treat them like idiots. I've never seen such a defensive crowd.

I understand that not everyone is the same, but I hate that people are trying to perpetuate the stigmas that have made the RPG genre stagnant. Look at all of the MMORPGs out there. They've all tried to emulate the same boring, uninspired game mechanics and now they are all pretty much the same game with different skin. Some of the game's writing seems to be there for the sake of being there. 

At it's core every good RPG should be about an engrossing  and engaging story. When story takes a back seat to micromanaging its a horrible thing.

The things that some of you are crying about are crusty old crutches that too many games have leaned on. It's not immersive, it's not fun, it doesn't add to the story or characters in any shape form or fashion, and it is definitely not conducive to fueling a role playing experience. In fact, it's counter-productive towards that end.

[KinjiruRM]

rabidhanar wrote...

Welcome to the death of the RPG, have a nice day

Yes I hate this new system too. The worst part is the fact that you only need 1000 experience to ever level up. Their is no progressively larger xp bar. No idfference between level 1 - 2 and level 29 - 30. You are guarenteed to level up every time you finish a main mission in this game.

Why would an entire game genre die because of the way experience points are awarded?

What's added to the game by having progressively higher experience per level costs? Why should level 12->13 be more valuable than level 22->23 to a character?

[KinjiruRM]

My overall thought is that many players are focusing on symptoms of an underlying problem. I don't think it's so much that you don't get experience or items from individual kills, or the level progression, etc so much as it is that the game is very scripted. There isn't a lot of free range in the game. You have a set of tasks of varying importance, some optional, some not. Everyone completes the same mandatory tasks, everyone can complete the same optional tasks if they do choose. There isn't a lot of variety.



On the flipside, we're used to a lot more chaos in our gameplay, where a lot of the content is less predictable and varies across replays because random chance is involved. We've also been spoiled by some good open-ended games where you can just wander the world (or universe as it would be in ME2) and do what you will.



However, I have to say that personally, if I -had- to choose between completely scripted and completely non-scripted/open-ended, I'd choose completely scripted. Games like Oblivion, Fallout, etc are fun at first, but eventually they become tedious as you find yourself collecting the same loot you've seen forever, exploring places that look like everything before it, etc. ME1 suffered this as well, where you simply ran out of cool items to find eventually and instead stocked up lots of omni-gel fodder with names ending in IX and X.



The ideal balance would be a solid mix of scripted elements and complete open-ended, chaotic ones, but that's a lot of development beyond the scope of what these games strive to achieve. I'd love it, most of us would, but that doesn't mean it's justifiable to a developer, much less financial backers.

[Jorlen]

Wygrath wrote...

At it's core every good RPG should be about an engrossing  and engaging story. When story takes a back seat to micromanaging its a horrible thing.

The things that some of you are crying about are crusty old crutches that too many games have leaned on. It's not immersive, it's not fun, it doesn't add to the story or characters in any shape form or fashion, and it is definitely not conducive to fueling a role playing experience. In fact, it's counter-productive towards that end.

I'm glad not every RPG follows your definition then.  Some of us like the ability to gather loot and customize what our characters are using.  For some of us, RPG isn't only about story, it involves many things, and inventory / loot is a big big part of it. 

Hrm, not sure why I am bothering to respond, you've already made up your mind that all RPGS should follow what YOU think is the right system.

Modifié par Jorlen, 02 février 2010 - 03:40 .

[Almostgfx]

Im kinda 50/50 on this new system because on the one hand i liked collecting my loot and sorting through the best weapons and armours for my squad and then selling the rest for space moneys but on the other hand its alot easier that my inventory isn't always being clogged up by accidently picking everything up and random objects i never used.

I would prefer that it would be slightly tweaked so that i can find more weapons and armour or armour mods seeing as that's what its changed too because am i the only one here who thinks you get too much money? I know you get quite alot from importing your mass effect save but ive never found myself wanting something that i couldn't afford, i mean there's no much choice in the shops so i just buy buy buy until i have everything.

I hope it is tweaked for ME3 somewhere in between the two.

[FFLB]

Spitz6860 wrote...

before i was obsessed with maximizing my exp gain, now i can just focus the mission objective, regardless of methods. there is no more decisions like should i kill this guy just for some exp for me to make, so i welcome the change.

I agree. In ME1, I would spend more time trying to kill enemies outside of the Mako rather than just concentrating on getting the mission done. This meant using pistols against turrets and hitting enemies from a distance with the sniper rifle. I also tried to do every quest so that I could maximize the experience gained. For me, when I end up having to spend more time planning out how to play a game rather than actually playing it, that's when I lose enjoyment for it. It's like working for experience points.

I enjoy ME2's system of not punishing the player for how they decide to deal with encounters. If we got more XP for killing enemies in a certain way, that would minimize the amount of enjoyment I could get out of it, since I would then become limited in how I deal with enemies. Maybe I prefer knocking enemies off ledges rather than headshotting them, or maybe I find it more fun to ram enemies with the Mako instead of hitting them, getting out, and then gunning them down.

Anyway, I don't see how some of you guys can't seem to get enjoyment out of simply defeating tough enemies or tough encounters. If they're not tough enough, bump up the difficulty or try out a different class.

I don't think there's enough money. I couldn't even buy all of the upgrades in my first playthrough.

Modifié par FFLB, 02 février 2010 - 03:42 .

[enigma1337]

I like the new XP system because I don't feel compelled to do stupid crap like use the Mako to reduce a thresher maw to minimal health, then get out and shoot it to death with my pistol for max XP gain.

[DeriusE]

Behindyounow wrote...

"You have reached the 150 item limit. Please convert some items to omni-gel."

You miss that? Really?!

Mass Effect 1's inventory system was flawed, nobody argues that; that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Rendar666]

willm453 wrote...

I dont miss the 150 item limit message omni gel thing but the inventory and EXP system in ME2 is not fun. Seriously I believe one should be rewarded for killing a boss or miniboss. And while there maybe guns or armor to find before or after a major boss fight, there is nothing to reward you for killing say a Blood Pack Commander.

And to respond to Admoniter. You said the old exp system rewarded people who killed everything...isn't that is how it is supposed to work? If you kill things you get more exp, I dont see any broken mechanic in that.

What are you talking about? You are rewarded for that... after the quest.

[Darth_Shizz]

DeriusE wrote...

Behindyounow wrote...

"You have reached the 150 item limit. Please convert some items to omni-gel."

You miss that? Really?!

Mass Effect 1's inventory system was flawed, nobody argues that; that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water.

If the baby had no business being in the bath in the first place you can. Out with the baby, in with the fun.

[freedman007]

this is just  to further illustrates the further push towards the shooter style of gaming in me2 they are just observations ,ihave have 2 points on this.

1. if you'll notice that the new levels seem to have added an enemy respawn element that i dont remember from the first game. in the single player cosole rpgs i have played in the past if there are 10 guys in the room there are 10 to kill to complete your objective(me1 i beleive did the same ). in the new game i notice that enemys will spawn from innaccessable balconys or doorways, only after you cross either an invisible trigger on the floor or activate a console. and will continue to pop out of back rooms or doorways until you complete a certain objective, or make it  to another area of the level.  this new element added in the game i think may have been the reasoning for the removal of the xp for kills.

2. the mission accomplished screen is a purely shooter element and doesn't seem to fit into any rpg style experience. imo

Modifié par freedman007, 02 février 2010 - 11:02 .

[foamyp1]

Felix Golden wrote...

The vocal minority complain the loudest, all the people who enjoy the game are busy playing it

Crap i feel partially to blame for this new garbage system, i loved ME 1 so much i never knew people where complaining so much about a great system, i for sure would have voiced my opinion that i loved it the way it was, now im off to the dragon age forums to tell them to shut up before the complainers ruin another sequel for me

[EternalWolfe]

I don't think we need XP for kills, its not the first RPG that you only got xp for mission completion. However, I do agree that boss/mini-boss enemies are just there to take a few more hits before you finish them off.



I think we should have been able to scan them for new armor parts/weapons/upgrades/ect. I mean, a lot of the higher-up mercs probably have some sweet modded gear we could scan and fabricate for our own uses.

[Unwise Wisdom]

willm453 wrote...

Zigaroma wrote...

rabidhanar wrote...

Welcome to the death of the RPG, have a nice day

Yes I hate this new system too. The worst part is the fact that you only need 1000 experience to ever level up. Their is no progressively larger xp bar. No idfference between level 1 - 2 and level 29 - 30. You are guarenteed to level up every time you finish a main mission in this game.

Oh boy guess the game ain't hardcore enough eh? No need to reward to player for finishing a main mission with a little lvl up, right?

Go play DA.

Wow people need to stop mentioning other games. My comparison is being made to ME1. And while it certainly wasn't perfect, they took a huge step backward. And while it was clear they were responding to community outcry, they just over did it. And I know that RPG elements will be far more prevalent in ME3, I can assure you of that (Due to vast majority of players being pissed off about scaling down of RPG elements) . And if you go to any gaming site and look up what kind of game ME and ME2 are they will say action rpg. So it blows my mind why people attack others who want more RPG in the game.

 Depends on who you ask, imo they took a huge step forward, by removing stuff that simply didnt work that well in ME1 and making the combat well.. Actually fun.

[ian528]

Wygrath wrote...

The Mass Effect series is more of an RPG experience than anything other game to date. I played table top Dungeons & Dragons back in the day when it was only 1000 exp to level up every level. You know, back when D&D was actually fun.

Grinding sucks. Stat mongering and min/maxing sucks. Inventory management sucks. None of these things are fun and are only around because JRPGs, WRPGs that mimicked JRPGs, and MMORPGs have perpetuated these horriblely stale concepts.

None of the games you tools want the Mass Effect series to be like have anything even remotely close to the RPG experience that Mass Effect offers.

ME1 was a good game, but ME2 is a great game.

And don't fool your selves into thinking that there are tons of you unhappy neophobes that don't like the game. I'm constantly forum hoping on multiple sites during the day when I get bored and Mass Effect 2 has a pretty big fan base.

I would even venture to say that it has all ready sold more copies than Dragon Age, and if it hasn't, it will.

Speaking as a gamer who has obviously been around longer then you, D&D started the grind factory.  Initially it was all about what you killed and how that kills experience and loot would be spread among the party.  The most recent books have made it ever more like the MMORPG then it was like.  It is in fact computer gaming that started to make more enhancements in experience systems so that they were universally more fair.  Each of the different classes use to have different experience expectations to level.  So 1000 points to level a fighter would be equal to 1250 for a Wizard.  Computer RPGs have leveled the experience tables much more and  D&D copied that.

Stat MIN/MAXing also came out of table top gaming.  For much the same reason as it is in effect today.  To get a truly effective character you need to MIN/MAX more then a little.  Everyone has had a character, that could affectionately be called Fugly Jim because of the uselessness of charisma in several of the original table top systems.  The fact that there is a staleness to the concept does not invalidate the reasons why people feel the need to do it.  However, what you are missing in this is the fact two people could have a fighter that was MIN/MAXed in very different was being incredibly effective in those two different configurations.  That is what is missing in ME2.  The ability to really create a character to play in your style.

The RPG experience it offers is vastly simplified and although your choices and not just pure action do have far reach consequences it does feel light to those of us who have been playing RPGs for over 20 years.

ME2 being a great game does not mean it could not be better and ME3 could really do with more choices and more customization that is missing in ME2.  I for one would like to get Miranda into realistic armor and out of the stripper suit.  It is insulting to the character in some ways that they put her in black or white spandex that surely can not provide the protection of tissue paper.  Also retraining myself is great but retraining my squad would be better.

I would hazard a guess that both games are going to do quite well.  I am happy for Bioware and myself as I own both.

[Shotokanguy]

Waaaahhhhh! I wish I got XP for killing enemies so I could level up 5 minutes before I complete the mission instead of just leveling up when I complete the mission!

That's about all that boils down to.

[Vena_86]

It boils down to you feeling restriced and playing a very linear game. ME2 is not your experience, everyone shares roughly the same.



Everyone ends the game on level 30, with the same equipment. That was not even remotely the case with ME1, making each play through feel more unique.

[Sullax]

Vena_86 wrote...

It boils down to you feeling restriced and playing a very linear game. ME2 is not your experience, everyone shares roughly the same.

Everyone ends the game on level 30, with the same equipment. That was not even remotely the case with ME1, making each play through feel more unique.

Oh, it's not like everyone has the Colossus Armor and Spectre Gear at the End of the game, is it?

On topic:
I find the way ME2 has taken might be revolutionary. The times, where you extracted the Doomsword of Doom out of the rear of a dragon should be over... or at least some RPG games should leave the traditional D&D system and try out something new.

With ME2's itemssystem all feels a bit more realistic now. I mean common, who can explain how 20 sets of full armor fits in Shepard... what? He doesn't even have a bag or a backpack where he can store rudimentary items.

Also, it's much more realistical, that the squad members choose what THEY want to wear. Mass Effect ain't a military simulation, where you as a commander can demand uniformity. I agree, squad mates should get more diversity and get an actual wardrobe. They could change their clothes as they feel is adequat or mabye even let the players choose in which way they should be clothed, if outfits like Jack's or Garrus' offend some people.

So yeah, BioWare, get more diversity in them items, especially clothes and give us some more different weapons and armour parts to play with and that would be superb!

[yoomazir]

They could easely use the system loot from Borderlands,the loot quality is set in different color from gray (lowest ql) to red (higest ql) and you could use a option that automatically salvage anything beyond the color of your choice.
Simple yet effective.

Modifié par yoomazir, 22 février 2010 - 06:35 .

[RE0305]

I don't really see the difference, as i recall there was a finite number of enemies in ME1 so the only difference from the ME1 levelng system is that instead of killing 10 enemies during a mission and getting 100xp for each now you kill 10 enemies during a mission and get 1000xp at the end of the mission.



I like this system, i am not rewarded for killing indiviuals, but rather accomplishing my objectives and getting the job done.



And i also like the inventory/loot system. For me it adds more realism.