903 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthCaine]

Can anyone sum up the whole post into a few words?

[Frotality]

scarecrow, you are the very model of a productive bioware fan. ill have to make a song for you later.

very intricately thought out and awesome ideas you have here. i agree on most everything, but for no reason will add my random opinions of them.

im all for a smaller selection of relatively equal weapons, just not so small as ME2's selection; my biggest problem with it was the lack of customization, a simple colour swap tool wouldve gone a long way, but of course the biggest problem is the complete lack of variety in weapon upgrades. there is very little if anything that can be done to personalize your weapons in ME2, and i think that is what we all really miss. an array of functionally different weapons like you describe coupled with an intricate customization system: THAT would be an awesome hybrid of shooter/rpg. a metaphor i think bioware should consider regarding their development,
"variety is the spice of life; however, having 30 slightly different
kinds of salts is as functionally flawed as only having the choice
between salt and pepper." meaning: find a balance between 100 pointless
variations and 2 fundamental variations, and in scarecrow's idea you have a basis for finding that balance.


armor ideas= agreed. its a great concept hindered by limited variety and lack of meaningful stat buffs that would make choosing one over an other a functional choice.

your energy bar idea made me wary at first, but now that i think about it it is tactical genius. it would allow us the 'combo attacks' of ME1, the better cooldowns of ME2, and still retain challenge while adding a new level of tactical choice to combat. charge attacks add yet another, as well as a whole new kind of fun (chage throw FTW)

skill progression= win yet again. for me the biggest (and most obvious) flaw is the inabilty to spend leftover points for absolutely no good reason. having a customizable power option goes along way to personalizing the class, i know i would rather have overload than AI hacking, balance issues might arise, but thankfully there is no multiplayer to consider. minor suggestion; continuing the infiltrator example, one tech and one ammo power should be optional, doesnt make much sense that the hybrid class only has tech abilities to exchange. power evolution does need to have some real difference, maybe not exactly the ideas you listed, but thats just for example anyway.

now where i have to disagree is the control layout; things requiring you to move the thumbstick (storm and cover) should never be assigned to clicking them, its just to much frustration for players to keep it pressed and still have the same control over the movement. squad combined power is an interesting idea, but im fine with using the powerwheel if i have to deal with no assigned melee button again. storm and cover can occupy the same button, just have shepard unable to go into cover while running, a gears style tap to transfer from storm to cover is much more fluid than ME2 currently is. i think 'reload' needs to not be on the same button as switch weapons. even assuming that under the hybrid ammo system you can only reload after overheating, that still might lead to accidental waste of thermal clips when you wanted to switch to a weapon not overheated. overall, i think the current layout should remain largely unchanged, its fine as is, and doesnt need to be changed so much to accomadate your ideas.

looking back, im thinking alot of the complaints of ME2 can be attributed to the lack of people like scarecrow who offered solutions to problems instead of just pointing them out.

my next suggestion: scarecrow reference in ME3 for his awesome contribution to fan input.

[Frotality]

DarthCaine wrote...

Can anyone sum up the whole post into a few words?

more weapon variety, and cutomization options

more armor options and meanignful buffs

hybrid ammo system

rechargeable energy bar instead of cooldowns

meaningful power evolutions, variety in classes, no leftover points

revamped controls to accommadate it all.

but thats just skimming the surface, you really should read it all, great ideas, you have some free time dont you?

[WrexKroganKing]

Wonderful post OP. Thanks Stanley for the sticky

[Seblun]

Very well thought out post, I agree with nearly everything.



One thing about armor for squad mates, why not give the squad mates casual clothes while they are on board the Normandy? Just like Shepard they can wear regular clothes while they are "off-duty" and when it comes to mission time, they put on their armor.

[lukandroll]

Great points, I agree in almost every point, except the inventory/looting/fixed guns system.

The game could be much more fun If enemies could drop items, It gives you a new motivation for killing them. Is that difficult to believe than a Mercenary boss could have a RARE gun in his arsenal?

The same can be applied to chest boxes, what is the motivation in exploring new areas or alternative paths, If you already know what you will find (Credits). This takes away a lot of fun in exploring new areas.



And about the inventory system, I'm OK with locker option for the majority of the equipment, but why we can't use a backpack system, where you can stash some items that may prove been useful in the mission. For instance, giving you the ability to carry two types of sniper riffles, one semi automatic for quick kills, and another for one-action great damage type of riffle. The same can be said about the other type of weapons, limitating the player to only carry one of each type it doesn't sound logic nor realistic. This also does not help in the sense of customization and the sense of role playing.

[david46]

Planets with multiple missions really bug me. I find it incredibly stupid to end up near the mass relay when i still have business to take care of planet side. Why do you have to leave Ilium or Omega and then fly back to do another? I recruit Samara, fly to the relay, fly back and do Miranda's loyalty mission. Why? Is forgetfulness a side effect of the Lazarus Project or just a design problem?



You would also think that the ME1 team members would at least say hello when you meet but thet don't. I recognized Garrus but nobody else did.



Little things like these break the immersion of role playing for me. I wonder why these things slip by QC testers?

[RogueWriter3201]

Scarecrow, though this has been stated enough so as to become somewhat redundant, I none the less wanted to thank you for working with the Bioware Forum Mods to put together this comprehensive thread concerning proposed and hypothetical tweeks and improvements to Mass Effect 2's various mechanics. Since the game's release, the Forums have been rife with negative tones, more so than with ME1 (though given the Saga's growth in popularity, it is understandable) and though the true Fans know that eventually the proverbial 'Haters' will eventually move on to another Game once they become bored from lack of fulfilled provocation, it is still great to see someone who had not only demonstraited thier collective understanding of How to Improve a game, but also how one should go about bringing said proprosals to the Development Staff in a constructive manner.

I understand that people have various issues with ME2, whether game play oriented or otherwise, but sadly what has happened in the last few weeks is a lack of productive attitudes to bring these concerns to the forefront. Some have stated that it seems as if the Devs and Mods no longer care to read the comments and post thier thoughts or responses, but I daresay it is far more likely they have simply chosen to pass on doing something that will only provoke text oriented Shouting Matches on how "I am right, you are wrong, and so is Bioware." To Sum up, I truly hope that this thread represents a turning point for the Forums, so we can once more reach the same Fun and productive place that the Forums found themselves not long after the release of ME1, as those Forums spawned various threads and topics that became so enjoyable to read and participate in that thier perpetual popularity resulted in some of these Topics acutally ending up in Mass Effect 2. If the Forums do indeed begin to turn around for the better, I will certainly consider you as part of the greater catalyst.

[SweDragon]

Wow, that was a long post. But I managed to read everything but the controller part (since I only play games on PC).

I'm impressed though. It's clear and constructive all the way. I especially like the proposed changes to armor customization and heat.

Armor customization could benefit from a bit more palpable results. A hybrid system for heat management makes alot much more sense to me, both gameplay wise and technically. A weapon that generates heat but has no built in heat dispersal mechanism at all seems a bit stupid, but on the other hand, a weapon that can disperse infinite amounts of heat quickly without using some kind of coolant medium other than air seems a bit unrealistic.

Two thumbs up. I know there was alot of well intentioned thought and effort involved in this post. It shows

[Noktarn]

Helmets for yourself, and squadmates, needs to be toggable.

[SimonTheFrog]

I'd like to comment on the charging of powers.

The system you propose resembles the one from fable2. But as much as it sounds great on paper in reality it kept being frustrating. Especially being vulnerable while charging was a major pain in fable2.
When you play ME2 on higher difficulties, leaning out of the hiding can kill you very quickly. It would be very difficult to balance the charging to make it significantly more powerful to make it worth the danger, while at the same time nerfing the non-charged powers in order to push the player into charging at the first place.
Anyway, i found the system frustrating in fable2 because i always wanted to cast very powerful spells but was loosing too much health while recharging. In the end i picked up the rifle because i wouldnt be bothered with magic anymore... :/

I guess the energy-meter is ok but i didnt have much trouble with the system in ME2 since the more casual spells created significantly shorter cooldowns than more powerfull spells. So, there is a tactical decision to either cast the long-cooldown geth-shield or the short-cooldown fireball.
In the end of the day you will spam spells with such a energy meter and then the gameplay is being interrupted too. The meter is only great for five seconds, after that you will be in the same situation like we are now: energy comes slowly back, fire spell.... depleted. Energy comes slowly back, fire spell... depleted. You see, its like cooldown, only looks differently.

I support you heat idea for weapons. Its good and indeed brings out the best of ME1 (don't run out of ammo) and ME2 (can have a frenzy in certain high populated areas if the level provides enough clips).

I also support the armor system for the squad. I like putting together tactical squads and i like to think about what weapons my team mates use and if they rather go wizzard or rogue... sorry, biotic or tech. I see that BW gives us enough squaddies to rather pick a fitting squadmate then refining the ones you are using, but that's not how the player minds work. The player takes the squadmate he thinks is the coolest and then tries to make that one even cooler. I don't want to pick a squadmate that i don't like just because he has the stats that i need for my team.

I think that the loot system in ME2 is really an insult to the player. They put weapon upgrade in each of the character missions. Like right in the middle of the corridor so that no one can miss it. And still, if you, against all odds somehow didnt see it, you have no chance to get it at some later point (or is there?). So, either way you take it and feel no happiness or being lucky because is was thrown at you, or you miss it and feel like **** because now you don't have it. There is no chance for the player to feel good about the upgrades.
Either you make random drops out of it, or grant them together with endboss-kill or something. Just anything that is not as dumb as it is in ME2.

*edit*

Helmets must be toggle... of course.

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 12 février 2010 - 11:34 .

[We Tigers]

I believe there are some interesting ideas here, though they mostly read as ways to make combat easier and player characters more powerful.  The one idea I don't like much at all is the fully customizable class, which I think would eliminate the reason to have the different classes in the first place.  If you want to be an infiltrator whose tech tree replaces the marginally useful hacking with the incredibly useful overload, okay, but again, it just seems like a way to make the game easier and eliminate the need for a balanced squad.  I think the squad selection on each mission is a major part of the game's fun factor, and right now I feel like each class has a good mix of strength and weaknesses that encourages careful squad selection and implementation.

I very much liked the evolved power system in ME2, but your charged power idea is a fun spin on that.  Again, I think it might make some fights way too easy, given the nature of ME combat (mid-size mob, break in action, face another mid-size mob), but it could be fun if balanced properly and with improvements in enemy AI.  I don't think it would be looked at fondly by the group that already views the ME2 combat progression as a bit too twitchy and starting to stray from RPGs, though.

[xODD7BALLx]

great job man, you really hit the nail on the head with it all

I think it's sad that so many will click on this topic and be terrified to actually read something. Hope it gets noticed by the right people though, I really do.

Modifié par Operative84, 12 février 2010 - 11:47 .

[Jazharah]

First off: I hope many people will take this post as an example on how to constructively criticize on the game. Very well done, Scarecrow.
Second: The points you suggest are spot-on. No more, no less, simply spot-on.
I really really hope this post will be listened to and at *least* partially implemented in ME3, maybe even give ME2 an overhaul with these suggestions. Something like "ME2 Enhanced Edition" like they did with The Witcher.

Edit: please re-sticky? After Stanley stickied it, it did the typical post-it thing: it came loose again.

Modifié par Jazharah, 13 février 2010 - 12:39 .

[llinsane1ll]

I have to say that is by far the best constructive and thorough thread. I would honestly back this up 100% if BioWare were to implement ALL of this into ME3, and would hope use some of this to patch up for ME2. Good job.

[llinsane1ll]

Did this thing get unstuck???

[Hurbster]

david46 wrote...

Planets with multiple missions really bug me. I find it incredibly stupid to end up near the mass relay when i still have business to take care of planet side. Why do you have to leave Ilium or Omega and then fly back to do another? I recruit Samara, fly to the relay, fly back and do Miranda's loyalty mission. Why? Is forgetfulness a side effect of the Lazarus Project or just a design problem?

You would also think that the ME1 team members would at least say hello when you meet but thet don't. I recognized Garrus but nobody else did.

Little things like these break the immersion of role playing for me. I wonder why these things slip by QC testers?

So we remember to feed our fish maybe ?

[Frotality]

llinsane1ll wrote...

Did this thing get unstuck???

im wondering this to...maybe the devs saw the lack of flames or insults and realized that endorsing this manner of thread was counter-productive to an entertaining forum for them?

[kalpain]

Still sorting through it all but I like the idea of a hybrid system for weapons. My thought was if you were going to use heat sinks to discharge the heat generated don't do it in such a way that makes the weapon inoperable if you run out. This has happened to me a couple of times and it sucks. Given the tech from ME1 the weapons in ME2 should still have some functionality if no sinks are immediately available. Albeit very limited. I picture it like those ammo upgrades from ME1 that had something like +400% overheating. You could maybe get off a shot or two before you had to let it cooldown and the it took a while. It makes sense to me that this is what the weapons SHOULD have been like in ME2. No sinks and you get one maybe two shots before sever overheating and you wait for it to cool down before you can fire again or until you find more sinks. Just my 2 cents. Still plowing through all the info. Great post.

[Scarecrow_ES]

Wow... so many responses already... where to begin?



First, I want to state that I believe in constructive criticism, not just whining. You don't like something in a game? Ok, first look to see if it's really a problem with the gameplay or just not your cup of tea. If it's a real problem, then address it. If it just happens to be something that works, but doesn't float your boat, then leave it alone. In doing these few proposals, I tried to address issues that do have a negative effect on gameplay. The weapon ammo/heat system from both ME1 and 2 had problems that made each system work great for some people, and terribly for others. My goal was to propose changes that worked for everyone. The proposal probably won't be everyone's favorite type of system, but it WILL work, no matter how you choose to use it. That, in my opinion, makes all the difference.



My hope is that, in reading my admittadely LONG posts, you will find ideas that not only work - not only do they actually improve the game - but that the overwhelming majority of players can get behind. I can't please everyone, but I can try.

[AllenShepard]

This topic pretty much sums up how I feel. Especially the hybrid ammo system. Initially, I believed this was how ME2 ammo was going to work and I thought it was a fantastic idea. The system in place sucks.





Anyways, awesome and thorough thread. Thanks, Scarecrow.

[Lortext]

Way to write a design spec. Maybe you should go design a game of your own, bro.

[Scarecrow_ES]

With regard to the hybrid heat system for weapons... the idea is to use the thermal clip swap as a "last resort." he player should be controlling his shots and "conserving ammo" wherever possible in the game. Having a limited supply of clips on hand should drive this point home. You don't want to go gung-ho and run out, as this will have real consequences for you. As long as you manage your heat properly though, you never will run out -but you might come close, especially in intense firefights that require you to burn through thermal clips. When you've got a dozen Husks baring down on you, and you can only get off maybe 30 rounds from your Assault Rifle before overheating... yeah, you're going to need to mash that trigger. And you're going to need to save those clips for that exact occasion. The rest of the time, you better be smart and make your shots count.

[thepimpto]

[quote]Scarecrow_ES wrote...
 
Weapons
 
I have never been a fan of shooters that provided you with a selection of weapons that were virtually identical, or ones where there was a clearly superior choice – an uber version, if you will. Instead, especially for the Mass Effect franchise, I believe a small selection of weapons, with a global upgrade system, each with unique but otherwise equal attributes, would be best. In this regard, I prefer the weapon system in Mass Effect 2 to the loot-heavy system of Mass Effect 1. Having said that, what we see in ME2 is just too few, and not nearly varied enough.
 
If you’ve read my topic on changes to the weapon heat management/ammo system, you know that I prefer a hybrid system, combining the ME1 and ME2 systems in preference to either. As such, heat management in weapons would be a factor in gameplay again. Accordingly, weapons in a given class could vary in how they manage heat, as well as other factors such as damage and accuracy. Each individual class of weapons – whether pistol, submachine gun, assault rifle, shotgun, or sniper rifle – would still have their particular type of function that differentiates it from other classes, but also each weapon within in a class would have certain attribute trade-offs that are balanced against each other to produce the several different weapons within each class. Below is how I see those trade-offs creating the various versions you have available: 

• Balanced - Your base (starting) weapon in any class would be a simple weapon balancing heat management, damage, and accuracy equally. The result is a weapon that is a good, all-around weapon with no particular strengths or weaknesses.
• +Damage/-Capacity(Cooling) - Increasing the damage a weapon is capable of doing per shot will increase heat output, and thus the weapon would have fewer rounds fired before overheating - thus trading heat management for damage. 
• +Accuracy/-Damage - Increasing the accuracy of a weapon may be achieved by changing the shape of the projectile to cut through atmosphere better, but the round will not have the same level of impact on the target, reducing damage – thus trading damage for accuracy.
• +Capacity(Cooling)/-Accuracy – Increasing the heat management ability of the weapon allows the weapon to fire more rounds before overheating or fire at an increased rate (but overheat in the same amount of time), but the looser clearances between components needed to allow for more efficient cooling result in a less accurate weapon – thus trading accuracy for greater firing time.
  UNIQUE – This weapon in a class will be unique in nature for the class. It may offer certain characteristics that remain balanced but give it unique personality. It could include using attributes that go against the class standard – such as in a class where the weapons are strong against health, but weak against shields, barriers, or armor, the unique weapon instead may trade some of the prowess against health for increased effectiveness against armor types. Or it may have certain secondary effects – for instance trading some damage for impact force that can knock an enemy to the ground. The unique type is an opportunity to shake up the class.

The Heavy Weapons category offers a great opportunity to introduce weapons which are unique, and so demonstrate unique associated gameplay. It would be very easy to expand upon the system already in place and introduce an even greater variety of heavy weapons, as has already been done with the Flame Thrower. Maintaining a separate Heavy Weapon ammo system, using Power Cells found in crates throughout the game world makes sense in limiting the ability to continually use these weapons in combat. However, like with Medi-Gel in Mass Effect 1, a station should be placed aboard the Normandy (in the Armory) to refill Power Cells between missions.
 
The above system insures that there are enough weapons in a class to provide variety, but also that each weapon has a unique personality which may appeal to different users. This eliminates the need to have many variations of the same weapon class, but also allows for 2 weapons within a category to behave differently enough that this difference can be noticeable to the user - ultimately the few weapons will feel like many. Also, rather than finding these weapons on missions (thus ensuring a user does not have access to the weapon he may like until the story says he can be, or missing out on a weapon or item permanently if he doesn’t immediately find it in a mission), new weapons should be available to receive when the user chooses, either through shops, research, licenses, or whatever system seems best. Keeping the current Mass Effect 2 upgrade system (without one-time, missable mission pick-ups) allows all weapons in a category to grow as the user does. [/quote]
 
I would also like a hybrid system to upgrade weapons. I would like to see the overall research upgrades like in ME2 (overall damage, accuracy, clip size, etc.) but I would also like some customation of the gun. Make the guns adaptable like the new armor modification. Have upgrade mods like in ME1, but make them one time use upgrades so if you put it on one gun you can't reuse it on another. Fit your standard sub-machine gun with a larger magazine capacity, or barrel extension for your sniper for higher impact, maybe a more rifled barrel to improve accuacy in assualt rifles.

These mods could also have draw backs too, to maintain balance trading one stat (rate of fire, damage, accuracy, etc.) for another. Which would allow even further customization if implemented with your new weapon sub-class idea.

On another note return ammo to being a mod but allow it to be interchangable.

[quote] Armor
 
The armor system for Mass Effect 2 is much improved; though, again, it is more limited than it could be. For the user’s Commander Shepard, improvements to this system will be no more difficult than adding a wider variety of mix-and-match armor pieces with various unique qualities. For the next game, though, I propose that the armor pieces chosen have a more profound effect on the wearer. 
 
While bonuses to weapons damage for a particular type of gauntlet are a great idea, upping them by merely 3 to 5% is not enough to make any piece or armor significantly more attractive to wear than any other. With the bonus so insignificant, the aesthetic qualities of the armor might override the skill improvement for many players. Raising the bonus to, say, 10 to 15% is necessary to really make the decision of what armor piece to wear that much more difficult, and makes the choice more profound. Further, certain “special” armor pieces could be found that offer unique ability enhancements that go beyond basic improvements to health, shields, or weapons damage – we could see biotic or tech enhancements, for instance, that make a real difference in gameplay. I won’t go so far as to make those up myself, but there is opportunity there. Suffice it to say, we need only increase the number of options for each type of armor piece to, say, no more than 10 to provide enough options.
 
As far as party member armors, I agree to a large extent that it is unnecessary to give them the same armor options we have for Shepard, and managing armor pieces and upgrades for up to 10 part members can become tedious. At the same time, though, it is not enough to be given access to only 2 outfits which are little more than texture swaps, with no change in properties. It’s not likely we’d need more than a handful of outfit options for each character (perhaps no more than 3) – and certainly the mix-and-match approach is not necessary – but each outfit should use different architecture, appear different in more than just color scheme, and should endow unique bonuses in a similar fashion to our own armor suits (like the Terminus, Inferno, or Collector armors available to Shepard) to the party members who wear them. This allows us to outfit our party in ways that not only greatly affect their appearance, but provide meaningful enhancements to their abilities.[/quote]

For the most part I agree, I like the new armor system because I can customize it how I want not just pick it up and put it on. However it does need to be more varied than standard N7 equipment. Think back to ME1's Rita's Sister quest sometimes the bad guys have better stuff. Integrate a looting system, not like in the first game where every bad guy drops common, uncommon, rare items, but one where unique enemies will be carrying unique armor and/or weapon mods that we will have to actually salvage from their corpse not instantly collect.

Also bring back Amp and Omni-Tool customization. Also make it like the ME2 armor customization. For the omni-tool give us basic makes and models like weapons, but let us upgrade with new processors (damage/duration), user interfaces (faster cool downs),etc. As for biotic amps have Eezo conduits or something like that.
 

[quote]Heat Management vs. Ammunition

For Mass Effect 2 the "infinite" ammunition and slowly draining heat/overheat system of the first game has been replaced for what is, essentially, an ammo/magazine system by another name... in this case replacing thermal clips for ammunition clips.  While I must say that the new system offers certain advantages over the previous one, namely a greater ability to handle higher-intensity, sustained-fire battles (so long as clips are available), it also offers significant disadvantages over the previous system with regard to lower-intensity firefights - certain weapon types suffer here more than others.

What I propose for Mass Effect 3 is, at essense, a hybridization of the two systems.  Let me explain.

I propose that we return to a system largely similar to Mass Effect 1's ammunition management system, with certain key changes.  Like in the original system, each round of a weapon fired will produce heat, which will build up over successive shots.  The weapon will have certain heat disappation qualities, so when the user stops firing, the heat will be slowly vented.  Fire too many shots, thus building up an excess of heat, and the weapon will go into overheat status.  This is all basically how ME1 handled it.  What I propose that is different, however, is that once a weapon goes into overheat status, it cannot disappate heat automatically after a short period of time as in ME1, and will require that the "thermal clip" (though I prefer the term "heat sink") will have to be replaced in the same fashion that ME2 uses.

There is, of course, scientific reasoning for this change, and the Mass Effect lore masters have essentially set up the precident already.  The amount of energy expended from firing a weapon in the ME universe would be such that if left to vent to atmosphere directly, it could certainly do damage to the user.  As such, I would say that each weapon has, as part of its operating system, a sort of heat sink that will absorb the heat generated by firing the weapon and disperse it slowly into the atmosphere in a safe way.  I'd also say that if the heat sink is exposed to too much heat too quickly, it will become damaged and no longer function.  The on-board heat management system of the weapon, in order to prevent unsafe use of the weapon would thus lock out any further use of the weapon in an overheat condition until the heat sink, or "thermal clip" is replaced.

This change would add a new dimension the the ammo/heat management aspect of combat.  A player may fire a few rounds and wait for the weapon to cool down before firing again, or fire at a suitably low rate of fire, which allows the weapon to remain cool and not require a thermal clip swap.  However, this would not be ideal for higher-intensity combat, as waiting for the weapon to cool can leave the player unable to deal with the greater level of threat.  Thus, the player could continue firing, and allow the weapon to overheat, and simply exchange the thermal clip for a new one.  Of course, thermal clips would be universal for all weapons that use them, but would be in relatively short supply as compared to the ME2 system, and thus it would not be possible to keep up sustained fire for long.  This creates a greater tactical component to weapons combat while ensuring balance.

A player could be slow and methodical with his shots, ensuring his weapon will not overheat but limiting the amount of rapid damage he can do, or a player could go all out, guns-a-blazing, but would not be able to keep this up for long, and he risks completely disabling the weapon in combat if he runs out of thermal clips.

This could also allow for an expanded upgrade system for weapon, taking into account the improvements made in ME2, but also incorporating certain upgrade balancing as in ME1.  For instance, weapons with a higher rate of fire do more damage more quickly, but also build heat more quickly.  Increasing the damage output of a weapon my also increase the heat produced.  It may be possible, then, to add research projects aimed at increasing the cooling efficiency of thermal clips to allow weapons to remain cooler or disappate heat more quickly.  The expanded upgrade system is sure to please detractors of the current system.[/quote]

I completely agree with your idea for a hybrid heatsink. When the devs
first brought up the heat sinks I actually thought they meant what you
are proposing. This is probably the reason most people who dislike
thermal clips, like myself, dislike them. I don't mind the ammo system
but you would think the gun's core would cool itself when not in use.


[quote]Concerning Improvements to Power/Skill Customization and Usage 

This topic is intended to put forth proposed refinements and modifications to the Biotic, Tech, and class power systems in Mass Effect, to include not only enhancements to the skill tree system, but also modifications to power gameplay that greatly improve the systems put for in both Mass Effect 1 and 2. The practical results of these changes should allow the gameplay surrounding power usage to reflect the intentions apparent of the development team, and should offer a more refined usage system and more meaningful skill assignment choices.

The most significant and potentially controversial modifications to gameplay I might suggest concern the core mechanic of Biotic, Tech, and class power usage. My hope is that these proposed changes will introduce mechanics that not only improve the way powers are used in combat in a way that more accurately reflects the apparent intentions of the development staff, but also expands on the current power evolution system and offers more refined and meaningful skill progression choices.

Cooldowns
 
My first proposed change comes in the way power “cooldowns” work in combat. After each power is used, its usage is locked out for a specified period of time we call a cooldown period. The intention here is to prevent users from using their powers continually in combat. Mass Effect 1 chose to limit usage by giving each power its own individual cooldown cycle that locks out the specific power until it can be recharged. Mass Effect 2, instead, uses a “global” cooldown cycle where all powers are locked out until the used power recharges. The Mass Effect 1 system allows you to use several powers one after the other, which can allow you to combine powers, but this can result in being unable to use any powers until their cooldown cycles have finished. The Mass Effect 2 system grants shorter cooldown periods between power usage, but prevents you from “casting” multiple powers at once and thus combining their effects. These systems are not ideal, and a great deal of controversy surrounds these systems.
 
My proposal is simple. Rather than use power cooldowns, whereby when a power is used you must recharge before you can use it again, we instead have an energy meter which depletes some every time a power is used, but regenerates over time. This is fundamentally similar to the weapon heat system from Mass Effect 1. The user may use any power at any time and in any order, so long as there is still energy in the meter. This could mean using the same power back to back against several enemies, or it could mean using several different powers to combine their effects. Once the energy in the meter is drained to a point where there is not enough energy to use another power, the user must wait to regenerate the energy. As soon as there is enough energy in the meter, he can use a power again (once again depleting his energy fully), or wait to regenerate even more energy and unleash a series of powers. There will only be enough power in the meter to unleash 2-3 normal-strength powers, though it may be possible to upgrade the amount of energy available or to reduce the regeneration time through research upgrades or skill bonuses, if desirable.
 
The practical result is a system which allows for continual power usage in combat, while also allowing users to combine power effects, but still limits repeated power usage (spamming) for the sake of balance. This system achieves the results the development staff has stated were its intentions regarding power usage, and offer greater fluidity in the combat experience. Further, I would suggest that this system is more in keeping with the nature of powers in the Mass Effect universe as compared to either system previously implemented. It would make sense for a Biotic Adept to be able to effectively tire himself out using a lot of powers all at once, while he might be able to sustain himself longer using powers only occasionally. It also makes a great deal of sense for Tech powers as well. It is possible, if desired, to add some sort of “overheat” effect, whereby if a player uses too many powers in too short a time span, he may find some negative result – lowered movement speed for a short period of time or a temporary damage to health or shields. Though this is not necessary, it could add another dimension to managing power use.
 
I am not sure that this system would work as well for party member power use as it does for Shepard, so perhaps for squadmates the “global” cooldown system already in place for Mass Effect 2 would remain the better alternative here.[/quote]

I find this idea interesting but I also see some concerns. I like to play as a sentinel always have. So perhaps having two distinct energy bars for tech and biotics would be better. However this would give Sentinels an unfair advantage as they have two mana pools to draw from. To balance this I would suggest this.

• Adept 100% biotic mana pool
• Engineer 100% tech mana pool
  
• Vangaurd 75% biotic mana pool
  
• Infiltrator 75% tech mana pool
  
• Sentinel 66% biotic/tech mana pools

Personally I would prefer a return to individual, slightly longer cool downs.
 
[quote]Skill Assignment and Evolution
 
Another area of controversy surrounds the decision to streamline the skills system in Mass Effect 2. Some view the restructuring as removing choice or customization from the character building process. While I do not necessarily agree that the streamlined structure of the Mass Effect skill system is a bad thing – in fact I consider the new system a significant improvement that removes redundant or unnecessary skill trees in favor of ones that are more meaningful to individual classes – I can see that while classes are now more differentiated from each other, creating more unique gameplay experiences depending on your class choice, there is actually little actual choice in skill progression once a class is chosen due to the limited availability of powers. This is further hampered by the fact that upgrading individual powers results in little more than incremental increases in damage or area of effect.
 
In this regard, a system was put in place allowing the player to “evolve” a power by investing a large number of points into it. By evolving it, the player is able to select one of two different variations of the power. Most often this is posed as a trade-off between one attribute and other – for instance damage versus area of effect, or weapon damage versus power cooldown reduction. While I applaud the creativity of this new system, and welcome to perceived new level of customization it is intended to offer, the practical result is underwhelming. The new evolved powers are still only incrementally better than the lower-level versions, and each evolution choice is, again, only slightly different than the other. There are few powers whose evolution offers a dramatic enough change to be truly noticeable in combat, which means power evolution is a missed opportunity.
 
As I like the system largely as it is in Mass Effect 2, with few streamlined options, I propose keeping this system as a base to work from. Each class, then, retains its unique defining skills, and remains a unique gameplay experience. However, rather than remove all other choice from character development, I propose allowing some initial choice for the powers the user will have available to his class. For instance, an Infiltrator will retain his class-specific power, Tactical Cloak, as well the class ability tree and ammunition ability trees. Where my proposal differs, however, is in allowing the remaining 2 abilities to be chosen by the player from a list of class-available powers. Using the Infiltrator again, since this class is a combination of Tech and Soldier abilities, the player may be able to choose from abilities such as Overload as replacement for the default AI Hacking and Incineration Blast powers. Also, the player will be able to pick up an additional bonus skill later in the game when certain conditions are met, as have been the case in both Mass Effect games.

Another issue with the current ME2 system that will need to be reworked is the tiered skill tree system, as brought up to me by SinHound on these forums.  The current system requires a progressively larger number of points to be invested to reach each higher tier of upgrade for each skill.  Because of this tiered system, it is entirely possible to end up with skill points which cannot be used to upgrade skills, as the total number of points available may not be enough to unlock the next highest tier in a skill.  In the end, this leaves a level 30 character as powerful as a level 28 character with two points that can never be invested into a skill.  There are a number of ways to fix this issue, and most involve returning to a single-point skill investment system, much like that in ME1.
 
The initial choice of class skills allows the player to customize his class with variety present in Mass Effect, while maintaining the more streamlined approach as in Mass Effect 2. The result continues the unique gameplay of each class while giving the player a small amount of freedom to choose powers he will use, rather than forcing him to invest in powers he will not simply because no other options are presented.

 
Power Evolution
 
Further, I propose a modification to the evolution system that results in more than a choice between two simple, incremental improvements, and instead will truly change the nature of the power in a very obvious way. In my ideal system, a player will highly desire to evolve a power because it will result in a dramatic change, and of course improvement, in the power. The ability added for Mass Effect 2 to map powers to the LB, Y, and RB buttons presents an opportunity for power usage not present when using the power-wheel system alone. Therefore, I propose introducing “charge” powers. Let me explain…
 
Once a player devotes enough points to any active power, he unlocks the ability to evolve that power. This power will then be available in both a standard form and the charged evolved form. The standard for will behave just as the power had before being evolved. For instance, Biotic Throw may streak forward and hit the aimed target; knocking him away from the direction he was hit. However, when Throw is assigned to a button, that button can then be held, causing greater energy to flow into the power. When the power is fully charged, the button is released, and the player unleashes a much more powerful version of that power. In the case of Throw, perhaps not only will the power knock the target enemy back, but will explode on any contact and push anything back within a given area of effect at significantly higher power than in the standard version. Using the evolved power will also result in a complete drain of the power meter, instead of the partial drain of the standard, which limits the use of the evolved powers further, and creates a wider variety in the tactical use of powers.
 
The manner in which an evolved power changes from its standard version will depend highly on the power. “Missile” attack powers like Throw, Cryo Blast, Incineration Blast, and so on can simply see significant gains in both power and area of effect (perhaps impact force as well) in their charged versions to make them truly devastating against all enemies. Support powers may be different, and offer greater opportunity for creativity. For instance: 

• 
  
• AI Hack - The standard version of AI Hack may allow you to hack low-level synthetic enemies to attack other enemies for a short period of time. The charged evolved form may actually allow you to temporarily hack higher-level synthetic enemies or to cause low-level synthetics to self-destruct in a sort of Kamikaze attack against any nearby enemy once the power has worn off.
• Tactical Cloak - The standard version of the Infiltrator’s Tactical Cloak may allow him to go invisible for a brief period of time and give him a bonus to his first-strike damage while cloaked. The charged version may significantly increase the duration of the cloak, maintain the high first-strike damage bonus, but also give him the ability to unleash a devastating close range attack that results in an instant stealth kill for any low-level enemy, regardless of protection.  
• Warp - A charged form of Warp may be powerful enough to eat through any enemy protection or instantly disintegrate an unprotected enemy. 
• Barrier – The standard version of barrier will remain the same, covering the user in an addition biotic shield of sorts. The charged Barrier will instead create a sort of shield “bubble” protecting anyone inside if from harm, including any squadmates who happen to be near you. 
  Drone – The standard Engineer Drone could be upgraded to explode on destruction, have higher shield rating, and even attack a single nearby enemy with a sort of lightning energy attack that does damage over time. An evolved Drone could gain the ability to attack multiple enemies at once within a short radius of the drone. The drone would only be capable of doing the same amount of damage per second regardless of the number of enemies attacked, so one enemy would receive 100% of the damage, while 4 enemies would receive 25% each, for example. This drone could be quite useful against a crowd of closely grouped enemies.

These are just examples, of course, of how the charge system might be used to provide truly evolutionary powers that become highly desirable to upgrade to, as they would offer gameplay opportunities not present in the standard version of the powers. Passive class powers and ammunition powers will remain largely the same as they are in Mass Effect 2.
 
Evolved powers that require charging will have high rewards for use, but also come with high risks, which is what allows them to remain balanced. The player must expose himself to potential enemy fire for a longer period of time to use a charged power, and the power will completely his energy meter, preventing him from using another power until enough energy has regenerated to do so. This means the difference between using several low-power attacks or one very powerful one. The ability to have a more significantly more powerful version of a standard power gives the player abilities he’s thus far only seen other characters use in cutscenes.
 
Revamping the Controller
 
Because the charged power system requires that mapped power buttons have both a press and hold function, the controller configuration needs to be remapped. This provides an opportunity to refine control settings to optimize for both the proposed power system, but also to refine combat control as a whole. Below is how I would remap the controller:

Left Stick (Click): Move (Storm)
Right Stick (Click): Camera (Cover*)
D-Pad: Squad Commands
Left Trigger: Aim Down Sights, Zoom*
Right Trigger: Fire Weapon
Left Shoulder Button (Hold): Reload Thermal Clip (Bring up Weapon Wheel)
Right Shoulder Button (Hold): Combined Squad Power Attack^ (Bring Up Powers Wheel)
Y Button (Hold): Use class Specific Power (Charge class Specific Power)
X Button (Hold): Use Assignable Power 1 (Charge Assignable Power 1)
B Button (Hold): Use Assignable Power 2 (Charge Assignable Power 2)
A Button (Hold): Context Sensitive Action/Melee (Context Sensitive Hold/Charge Action)

*The button actions for Aim Down the Sights/Zoom and Cover can be swapped by the player, and can also be set to either Hold or Toggle modes.
^Combined Squad Power Attack – The unused RB press presents an opportunity to create a new power action that takes advantage of the combined powers of your squad. Currently, the player may open the wheel and select that his squad members perform 2 powers simultaneously. Otherwise, the user will have to open the wheel, select a squad power, close the wheel, wait for the power to be cast, reopen the wheel, select a second power, and then close the wheel again to have the second squad member cast the power for that power to be performed after the first. With the Squad Combined Attack, this is now accomplished with one button press.
 
When the Power Wheel is opened, each Squad Member can have a power assigned to the Combined Squad Power Attack. The order in which the power is assigned (select the power and press the Y Button) determines the order in which the power will be used, and the power will be designated in the Wheel with a small 1 or 2 to show this. When the Right Shoulder Button is pressed, the squad member assigned the first power will perform his attack, followed by the second party member’s assigned attack when the first has taken effect. This would allow the player, for instance, to have the first squadmate lift an enemy into the air with Biotics, while the second uses Throw to send them flying away. As another example, the player could have the first squadmate cast Cryo Blast to freeze an enemy, while the second casts an attack to instantly smash him to bits. The possibilities for creative power combination are great, and allow the player to access an easy way to unleash a predetermined coordinated attack not present in current Mass Effect gameplay.
 
Summary
 
I believe that the modifications and refinements I’ve just proposed regarding the powers system in Mass Effect represent a significant improvement on past systems. Skill progression retains the simplicity and meaningfulness of that in Mass Effect 2, with the greater amount of choice and customization in Mass Effect 1, while expanding upon the evolved power concept in a way that makes power evolution more than an incremental improvement – thus spending enough points to evolve a power becomes highly desirable, and presents a significant and difficult customization decision with great payoff for the player. Power usage in combat is made more fluid and is given far more tactical options than have ever been seen in either Mass Effect game - with the introduction of a regenerating energy system for powers, as well as devastating new charged evolved powers and combined squad power attacks.[/quote]

I would like to see a return to the ME1 skill tree, slightly altered,
or at least the ME2 tier systems expanded. ME2's system worked like the
first four bars of ME1's with progressive point cost leading to a
specialization at the end.
-More talents
-More talents for NPCs
-More varied specializations

In
ME1 at bars 4, 8, and 12, the talent was upgraded beyond just
percentage increases. The same could be done with crossing both games
skills assignments. At the designated points in the tier you could
specialize the talents (Damage or Area of Effect).

Example:

Singularity - - - [AoE] - - - [AoE] - - - [AoE] would result a huge area but less damage any other combination.

I'm not saying make the tiers twelve bars long, that was just an example on how to further specialization

Final Summary
 
If you found yourself able to get through all or even some of the above subjects, I applaud your resolve, and hope that you have found the reading worthwhile.  These changes should result in a system which is more appealing to all players, and one that is closer in practice to the spirit of combat the developers have chosen.  My hope is to see changes like these instituted for Mass Effect 3 so that the next title in the Mass Effect series can be unquestionably the best from a gameplay perspective, and present an unforgettable swan-song for the franchise.

Please feel free to enter discussion on the topics presented. I look forward to discussing ideas, and welcome any further improvements the community can come up with. [/quote]

Modifié par thepimpto, 13 février 2010 - 01:58 .