903 réponses à ce sujet

[jonnyblueballs]

Can we make it so that you skip conversations with a different button than you choose dialogue options with? It's a pain when you constantly pick the wrong option just because you didn't want to hear the same **** for the third time.

And more asari dancers!

[SithLordExarKun]

Jebel Krong wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Quite honestly i am sick and tired of only being able to interact with my party members in the Normandy and not talk to them outside of the ship, this is a flaw(to me) that is present in both games and actually engaging them in a conversation with them outside of the ship would be interesting.

double the ram, memory bandwidth and disc space in everyone's console and you could probably get your wish.

If thats the case, why was bioware able to pull that off in DAO?

[Dualfinger]

jonnyblueballs wrote...

And more asari dancers!

Here here!

[Scarecrow_ES]

Back to interupts real quick... Interupts are meant to be just that, an alternate way to progress out of the normal line of action with a seperate action based on alignment. You could say, for instance, that knocking a guy out cold rather than pushing him out of a window is still a renegade option, albeit a weaker one, in the same sense that shooting a guy in the leg as opposed to the head is still a renegade option. Rarely does the situation come up in interupts where there is often a very nice or very mean way to deal with the particular situation. Mostly it comes down to those moments where the player is thinking "I'm my Shepard was Jack Bauher, he'd just push this jackass out the window," and hey, he can do that with the renegade interupt. By the same token, it's unlikely the player is thinking, "Maybe if I give this guy some candy he'll be my friend" when that same situation pops up. It just doesn't make sense for there to be a choice for every interupt.



As far as having more dialog options outside of the ship, it's not at all an issue of hardware capability, but it is, of course, an issue of disk space and of development time and expense. I mean, your squadmates already talk outside in combat and just at random anyway. The issue is having to add ever increasing numbers of recorded dialog to add a more situationally specific spin to the dialog. This eats up disk space (we're already at 2 with ME2), and costs a pant-load for writers, voice actors, studio time, coders, etc etc. A developer has to weigh the costs against the potential benefit. I just don't think BioWare's gonna come in heavily on the side of extraneous dialog.

[unluckyexponent]

Best Post EVER... Period.



I'm four months late to scarecrow's party but still able to enjoy the cake as if I had the first slice. I rarely get into forms where I want to read the entire topic. I read this massive post top to bottom and spent the entire time shaking my head while saying "yes, omg yes, and finally hell yes". I totally agree with everything you "suggested". I admit that some improvements that were made in ME2 worked well beyond ME1(streamlined character progression) but lacked some of final thought of ME1 (using every skill point earned). But most of all I enjoyed the following statement from scarecrow:

"First look to see if it's really a problem with the game play or just not your cup of tea. If it's a real problem, then address it. If it just happens to be something that works, but doesn't float your boat, then leave it alone".

Bioware would stand to learn from patrons with this level of commitment and insight.

[yuncas]

Bump because...?

[Scarecrow_ES]

Well, welcome to the party then, Unlucky. I'm a huge fan of BioWare. And I'm a huge fan of Mass Effect. But as much of a fanboy I might be, I can admit when something's wrong, just as I'd be the first to admit when I don't like something just because I don't like it. Unfortunately, I'm not representative of the vast majority of forum posters. As the big development houses start paying more and more attention to fan criticism through forums such as this one, they're bombarded by many voices that often express the most extreme views within the community. Moderate views are simply not expressed. In a way, I like to stand up for we moderates. Improve what's mediocre, sure, but leave well enough alone.



Besides, just because a particular feature or gameplay component didn't receive a perfect rating across the board doesn't mean we have to freak out and knee-jerk the other way with it.



All that being said, I'm glad you found the topic interesting enough to get through.

[Fraevar]

I'd just like to throw in my support for your ideas, Scarecrow. I'm really grateful that you managed to put in text what I've been thinking ever since ME2 was released. I hope BioWare takes your post into consideration.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

it MIGHT be pretty nice if when you were in the shuttle down to the planet you were allowed to talk to one of the two that you brought down (or a third option of neither), if they have nothing new to say their prompt doesn't come up. You can't talk to both because by the time you finish your conversation the pilot could go "Approaching the landing zone, ready for drop off." or something. You should still also be able to talk to your crew on the ship too, but it'd be a nice way to streamline the narrative between shepard and the crew.


Although this is really more something I wish had been in me2, but it's a little late for that.  (I'm betting me3 won't have QUITE the focus on the crew that 2 had, and it'd be weird to have romance conversations in the shuttle.  but then again alot of the conversations are such that having another person there would just be awkward anyways due to how private it is.  You'd really have to have completely different kinds of conversations for something like this...probably not as good an idea as I thought it was...)

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 06 juin 2010 - 12:00 .

[Scarecrow_ES]

Thing is... Jackstraw... a lot of players have complained about the loading sequences used in place of the elevator sequences ME1 used. Now, personally I don't care either way, but what I do miss about the ME1 elevator sequences are the opportunities for information flow from the universe at large and for unique conversations between shipmates.



ME2 features a far more robust "news network" than ME1 had, and most players may never hear all of the advertisements and news pieces as few are willing to go to the proper kiosks on the Citadel and keep pressing the action button to run through them. Further, there were some truly enlightening conversations between squadmates that took place in the ME1 elevator sequences that gave you real insight into the characters and their relationships with each other. In those sequences you got perspective on characters you'd never get anywhere else in the game.



Quite frankly, reintroducing "elevator" sequences, whether they take place in real elevators or on the shuttle, or basically any other loading opportunity, would provide a chance to add back some of the more random conversations you're talking about, as well as adding back some of the relevance of news stories and advertisements expanded upon in ME2.

[yuncas]

Scarecrow_ES wrote...

Thing is... Jackstraw... a lot of players have complained about the loading sequences used in place of the elevator sequences ME1 used. Now, personally I don't care either way, but what I do miss about the ME1 elevator sequences are the opportunities for information flow from the universe at large and for unique conversations between shipmates.

ME2 features a far more robust "news network" than ME1 had, and most players may never hear all of the advertisements and news pieces as few are willing to go to the proper kiosks on the Citadel and keep pressing the action button to run through them. Further, there were some truly enlightening conversations between squadmates that took place in the ME1 elevator sequences that gave you real insight into the characters and their relationships with each other. In those sequences you got perspective on characters you'd never get anywhere else in the game.

Quite frankly, reintroducing "elevator" sequences, whether they take place in real elevators or on the shuttle, or basically any other loading opportunity, would provide a chance to add back some of the more random conversations you're talking about, as well as adding back some of the relevance of news stories and advertisements expanded upon in ME2.

Agreed. I think the elevator sequences played a role in humanizing your squad almost as much as your personal conversations you had with each of them on the ship over time, and contributed to the game world feeling alive more so than the repeating news ticker radio in zakera ward does. As for the underlined part, it is true there is more to hear in ME2 but the point is diminished somewhat when considering that the fewer in number ME1 bulletins actually helped broaden the story with side missions and such in addition to improving your understanding of the game environment and it's various backstories.

[Scarecrow_ES]

One thing I always liked to do in ME1, and this might make me kinda a weirdo, is to pick different squad member combinations and head up and down the elevators in the Citadel just to see what kinds of conversations they'd have with each other. There were several conversations for each pairing, and the topics were varied. Some gave you a little backstory on a character that you, yourself, didn't have access to through conversation. Some gave you some insight into how a specific character thinks, or how they feel about people, situations, whatever beyond the scope of the game.



Personally, I think it's great when characters are interacting with each other, and not just MY character. Especially if my character is really not part of the dialog. It gives the impression that life goes on when I'm not around - that my squadmates aren't just waiting around alone in isolated parts of the ship just waiting for me to come by so they'd have someone to talk to. While ME2 was largely about the characters you meet, there really was so little interaction between the main characters in the game. I had far more interesting experinces listening to my engineers bicker or random crewmembers having conversations about their families than any other non player-driven dialog that exists with the main characters.



It means so much more in a game world to see that life exists that doesn't revolve around you. That people go about their day. That news and events happen that you're not a part of, or perhaps that other people in the game world besides you have opinions on what's happening in the world. This is something that's largely missing in ME2, and the opportunities in this regard are so vast that it's remarkable nothing more has been done to bring all the media and conversation that already exists to the forefront.

[Dualfinger]

I agree, I miss squad banter

[Foolsfolly]

Holy crap this is a great thread. I, like the OP, have a crappy internet connection due to living out in rural America. So clearing this thread was a long process. I read many pages (many out of order and some I just skimmed) but I really find myself agreeing with the OP in his original post, reviews of Zaeed and the Hammerhead, and just about everything else.



However, I do disagree on one thing. The resource grinding.



I hate to toot my own horn but but I showed my idea 2 months ago on how to streamline resources. My idea was a modified Fable 2/Assassins Creed 2 idea with some of the building of Vigil's Keep in Dragon Age: Origins: Awakenings.



It gave us a HUB zone to do side missions and gave us less 'on-hand' resource mining. Your idea is more on-hand and I'm not entirely sure that's my cup of tea. Plus it seems longer than just scanning planets or finding nodes out in boring landscapes.



But otherwise this is a fine thread. Love it. Putting it in my sig for support.

[Scarecrow_ES]

There is a certain degree of correlation between your mercantile exchange system and my mining guild system, though in a way my system is a little more robust overall in the actual mineral exchange arena. I do think your idea of a sort of hub world that grows and changes over time depending on the player's actions is a good one, but a tough sell for BioWare given the narrative scope of Mass Effect. It's a stretch in some ways to believe that in the middle of such a fateful mission, he's off helping random Quarian girls accused of stealing money or the occasional semi-abandoned colony... hell it's even a large stretch he's searching for minerals in the first place except out of necessity for the upgrade system. But for him to have any strict involvement with the establishment or expansion of a colony of sorts I think is going far beyond the scope of the character - as interesting an idea it might be.



No, ultimately it's more befitting (though perhaps just barely) that Shepard is out scrounging for what he needs in terms of mineral development. I can definitely see use for your system in so many other RPGs though. It would fit quite well into, say, Fallout for instance, where the character you play can be anything you want.



My system was never meant to really transform the resource management system. It was just meant to ease the pain and make the whole system more worthwhile for the player. I can definitely say if I was presented with your idea, or the ME2 system, I'd definitely prefer yours too. But unfortunately we were given the ME2 system, and the best I can hope for is to make it less tedious and more engaging. It's meant to take the amount of time a player would spend on the planet scanning system, and break it up into more varied gameplay. Downplay the actual scanning part by taking out the repetition and increasing the speed, but add in more layers that force the player to think. Beyond that, give the players something more to do than just move a cursor around a ball. I don't anticipate the whole experience to become more time consuming - equal if anything, but it certainly shouldn't feel like you've spent as much time planet scanning. And in a way, resource management, with the additional "guild" type options, should start to feel like a game within a game.

[finnithe]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet as I do not have the time to read through this thread but I'd like the concept of threat introduced. It'd add a layer of strategy if a teammate like Grunt generated more attention from the enemies due to his larger size. A squad member using Incinerate should generate more threat due to the effect it causes amongst enemies. A squad member or Shepard who is doing a lot of damage or using specific powers should generate more threat and thus attention from his enemies. Infiltrators could zero their threat level using their cloaking ability.However, even being visible to the enemy should generate some threat.



I'd like this idea to be implemented because I don't like how enemies always prioritize Shepard. It would make it easier to pull off flanking manouevers with this mechanic in place. Army of Two showed that threat could be a good strategy in a shooter.

[brfritos]

Scarecrow_ES wrote...

One thing I always liked to do in ME1, and this might make me kinda a weirdo, is to pick different squad member combinations and head up and down the elevators in the Citadel just to see what kinds of conversations they'd have with each other. There were several conversations for each pairing, and the topics were varied. Some gave you a little backstory on a character that you, yourself, didn't have access to through conversation. Some gave you some insight into how a specific character thinks, or how they feel about people, situations, whatever beyond the scope of the game.

You're not the only one, trust me, I did this too. A lot of times when I need to go to some locations on the Citadel and some of these were distant from eachother, I'd still prefer to walk a lot and pick an elevator, instead using rapid transport, just to hear my squad mates talk.
This is what we missed, not the elevators per se.

Personally, I think it's great when characters are interacting with each other, and not just MY character. Especially if my character is really not part of the dialog. It gives the impression that life goes on when I'm not around - that my squadmates aren't just waiting around alone in isolated parts of the ship just waiting for me to come by so they'd have someone to talk to. While ME2 was largely about the characters you meet, there really was so little interaction between the main characters in the game. I had far more interesting experinces listening to my engineers bicker or random crewmembers having conversations about their families than any other non player-driven dialog that exists with the main characters.

It means so much more in a game world to see that life exists that doesn't revolve around you. That people go about their day. That news and events happen that you're not a part of, or perhaps that other people in the game world besides you have opinions on what's happening in the world. This is something that's largely missing in ME2, and the opportunities in this regard are so vast that it's remarkable nothing more has been done to bring all the media and conversation that already exists to the forefront.

This is other thing that upsets me a little, everything is about me.
Sure, you have the loyalty missions, but usually when you hear, read or see something, everytime is about Shepard.

I discovered something that stopped me talking to Mordin until Kelly warns me about his loyalty mission (yes, don't talk with him at all until this point, only ask him about his upgrades).
This is a no spoilers forum, so I can't enter the details, but the conversation with him and the topics discussed is so much better and dinamic than the two talks you have before, that I became puzzled.
This is funny and ironic, if you ask me, you have to stop to talk to someone to see something new and - most important! -  what is the character thinking, his/her motivations and his/her emotions.

BTW, I tried this with everyone and found that Jack and Mordin shows much more of themselves than in normal conversations.

ME1 had battle and explosions in the same huge amount of ME2, but I miss this elements, they are so scarced in the second game.
I think that's why the first game give me the impression to last more, but if you look the time played in the save file is close to ME2.

I'm not comparing the two games, just to clarify, I think the two have their weaks and strongs points and I like the ME universe.
But there are still something missing, ME have the oppotunity to become another Star Wars or Indiana Jones or Aliens, with their own lore, timeline and universe.
I hope this topic give Bioware new insights, but for now ME is only a product of a time, pretty much like the Terminator series (thanks for burying the franchise with the third movie, Arnold, really great work <_<).

[yuncas]

Definitely did the elevator thing also. All the time.

The omission of  Admiral Hackett type interaction also took a nice bite out of the game too for me. Now I get Kelly saying "the answering machine is blinking and I'm a skank" . I'd prefer a meaningful followup conversation to an impersonal email that makes my eyes bleed to read it because I own an old tv. That's just me though.

Modifié par yuncas, 08 juin 2010 - 10:29 .

[ExSturminator]

I'm surprised to see you still come here Scarecrow, with the number of responses you've gotten, but rather pleased to see you keeping up with people reading this. Read through your suggestions, probably going to write something similar of my own soon, lol. I'll probably reference this page when I do actually, a couple of your ideas were spot on.



I wondered if I might bring up a few points, mostly for the benefit of working out any kinks I saw in the ideas. I apologize in advance if you've already seen these questions btw, I read you post, but couldn't wade through all the comments, lol



Firstly, on the ammo management suggestion. Great idea, it provides a much better depth to firefights and also opens up the opportunity for more upgrades, but I did wonder, how would you recommend dealing with a situation where the player runs out of thermal clips and just keeps firing until the gun overheats? Lock them out of the gun and force them on to another? What if they do this with all guns? I actually wondered about this in Mass Effect 2, running out of ammo with all weapons, and what would happen, but I never got the chance to test the scenario. I always had enough bullets, lol. My idea would be to introduce a pistol with low emissions or something that had a specialty heat sink that could vent without damage, thus ensuring unlimited ammo for a small sidearm should all of your guns overheat, but I was curious what you thought of this scenario, especially if thermal clips were in shorter supply as you suggested.



Another point I wanted to make was on the planet scanning changes you recommended. I LOVE the idea of the mining teams and managing them to bring in resources. Dealing with a resource trade economy in the game would be SO fun (maybe I'm just weird like that), but on the actual prospecting process, I don't think the chemistry minigame would be a good idea. Frankly, as described, its too easy, lol. After a few tries, you wouldn't even have to think about it. There are only three possible outcomes every time: try ab, its neither, it must be c OR try ab, its one of them, try bc, its neither, it must be a OR try ab, one of them, try bc, its one of them, it must be b. I don't know, maybe I'm just good with logic puzzles like this, but I'm afraid most gamers would eventually regard it as simply a step between them and resources rather than a game. I'm not sure of a viable alternative yet, but I thought I'd voice my first impressions of this suggestion and see if it helped. Hope to hear back =)

[Scarecrow_ES]

Well Ex... Balance is certainly an issue where my system shines, as there are so many balancing options compared to either the ME1 and ME2 systems that finding that precise balance that works for every scenario shouldn't be hard.



I don't imagine a situation where players will be frequently running out of ammo. Clips or whatever would still be reasonably plentiful - I imagine they'd be just like the Medi-gel packs strewn around the game space, and you'd carry enough of these at one time so that getting through a serious firefight even blowing through thermal clips should still be very possible without much consequence. However, locking out a single weapon in a firefight is a definite possibility if players are not careful, and if a player is not careful in multiple firefights back-to-back, he might find one weapon being locked out quickly, and perhaps another one to follow.



However, I imagine that's an extreme set of circumstances for perhaps the most intense firefights the player is likely to see. Think, say, the husk swarms new the end of the story. If a player simply squeezes the trigger without regard to his ammo reserve (so to speak), then he isn't likely to find enough clips between firefights to replenish the ones he's used. Of course, I say that adds a bit more intensity to the fight. I mean, imagine seeing a swarm of seemingly neverending enemy waves, and watching your ammo supply slowly dwindle away. Panic inducing? Sure, and that's great, as long as we don't break the balance, and then allow the player to recover. That's the plan.



The chemistry minigame actually has up to 6 total combinations - ab, ac, ba, bc, ca, and cb. This would correspond to the 6 possible elements to test for. But of course certain types of planets will only have certain types of minerals, and the player will have access to a knowledge base like the codex that tells them what types of planets have what. I imagine each type of planet will be limited to only 3 types of minerals, though certain special minerals might appear on planets that might have more mineral types, to increase the difficulty. And then of course the actual planet data says what type of planet it is, so players SHOULD know which minerals to test for, and thus which combinations of the a, b, and c testing agents to use. Players who fly in blind have more opportunity for failure than success with 6 possible outcomes and only 3 chances to succeed (though there is no real penalty for failure). Savvy players will know what to test for, and so have a nearly guaranteed opportunity for success, as long as they don't screw up.



It's not meant to be particularly difficult, much in the same way that the hacking and lock mini-games are relatively simple match games. This is intended to be just like you said, a simple logic game to get from "found a deposit" to "this is what the deposit is." I don't think most players would struggle with it, but some players might find it a worthwhile distraction, and certainly not nearly as painful as the system as it exists now. I think if it became more difficult, players might be forced to spend more time on it than they'd like (some players find the hacking and lock mini-games tedious, after all), and some players may not grasp it at all. Though, I imagine too that once players become more experienced with the system, they might just breeze through this mini-game, much like players will breeze through the others with practice, and that's also helpful.

[yuncas]

Bump because someones trying to steal the thunder.

[Scarecrow_ES]

Huh?

[Shadesofsiknas]

Id love to see the elevators brought back. They provided a nice touch and depth to the game. Ok at times they could be tedious if you just want to jump into the action. Overall they added more than they took from the game.

[incinerator950]

I would like to see Enemy Damage rates for Headshots on Shepard, I would like clipping for cover fixed, and I would like to see Armor over the head do other things, like reduce headshot damage and other effects.

[Scarecrow_ES]

Well, Shades, there are definitely a large number of supporters for a return to elevators. Of course, there are just as many that find elevator sequences unnecessary and tedious. I'm of the same opinion as you, in that I believe that if you MUST have these sequences during which another area of the game loads, then why not fill said sequences with some interesting exposition or character building?



Of course, there are ways to please both camps. First, you could allow players to press a button to "skip" the elevator sequence and instead cut to a more basic loading screen. If the loading screen is much more simplistic than the sum of the assets needed to run the "elevator" loading sequences, chosing to opt out of them might allow the game to load slighly faster (realistically this would be somewhere less than 20% faster, if any). Beyond that, there is also the option to make "elevator" sequences (or those on the landing shuttle, etch) more interesting overall. You could add dynamic camera angles, for instance, to give those dialog scenes a more cinematic feel. You may allow some control over the viewing angle, even.



Imagine traveling down an elevator overlooking a ward arm on the citadel, peering out the window as Shepard and being able to check out the scenic view as you see the reflection of your squadmates engaged in a conversation reflected in the window. The presentation could reasonably change every time with a sort of randomized set of scenarios. For instance, on one shuttle trip everyone might be together in the back talking, as during the end of Jack's loyalty mission. On others, one person might be in the cockpit, and the other two could be in the back. Maybe in another, two of your players could be in the pilots' seats, and the other could be standing behind. You might even introduce storyline sensitive dialog trees that unlock beftween different characters as certain game events happen, so that the dialog you here could reflect something that's recently happened.



Beyond that... NPCs... why are they always static? They're always in the same places. Why can't you have NPCs that have an agenda. Ones that go about their day? Every time I go to the Citadel, the same Krogans are having the same conversation in the same place. My crewmates on the ship never actually get up and do anything. Wouldn't it be kinda interesting to see two NPCs walking from here or there talking to each other? You know, like people?