903 réponses à ce sujet

[Frotality]

kalpain wrote...

I am guilty of the armor aesthetic too. Most of my changes were based purely on how my character would look with the bonuses having only a passing influence. Not to say that there should be bigger bonuses for some of the more ugly armor pieces to encourage people to use them (ME1 comes to mind). However, I would like to see a system where you could look how you want to look but still use some type of upgrade system to give you various bonuses. Something that would not take away from the aesthetic you design for your character.

this is similar to an idea i had.

what i was thinking is the same modular armor system (in my dream world modualr weapons as well) with minor stat buffs, but the majority of your armor/weapon qualities coming from an expanded ME1 modification system. not more slightly different endless kinds of mods, but more parts to modify, with significant difference in available mods. say for armor you could modify underlay with something like 'devlon hazard weave' that confers a significant bonus to damage resistance, or 'siirta medi-gel nanoweave' that triggers health regen to start noticably sooner. you could have 'ceramic' and 'hardsuit computer' sections to modify as well. dont think i need any more examples to explain, but the same system could be applied to weapons. you could have stock, scope, body, grip, and barrel as the mostly aesthetic (still conferring minor bonuses, maybe visual difference when looking thru different scopes) areas to customize for a sniper; and something like firing chamber, mass effect core, and weapon computer for your practical modifications. available modifications could be around 5+ for each area, keeping them distinct,  while also adding up to a whole lotta of options with no giant list of crap to sort thru. have modifications buyable, maybe a few different levels of improvement or the ability to research upgrades for individual mods like the system in ME2, and you add meaningful progression to the system as well. not just applying to this system, but im thinking unique equipment could "drop" from certain enemies/bosses, as well as basic mods/pieces. conjure up some codex entry explaining how armor/weapon mods are too intricate to reproduce with the normandy's magical weapon duplicator, and we have a good reason to bring back the gathering of loot, but with no junk loot and distinct variety; hence a reason to do so, as virtually anything new would be desirable.

and the reason we would need that codex entry is because this would work well for teammates as well. im thinking that squad armor should be maybe as limited as shepard's current system. have a few modualr pieces, the number and sections of course varying with the teammate. in this way, you have a few options in visually customizing your squad (give us the tint system so we can make a cohesive unit as well, patterns might be a bit much to implement for individual characters, but would be welcome), pieces that can be bought or aquired like anything shep has (like a krogan helmet for grunt/wrex you get for defeating a certain krogan enemy), but they would be subject to the same mod system, allowing you to tweak their stats as you see fit, but allowing them to keep their character identity with a few different armor choices. i would also be happy with another, simpler system of giving teammates significant buffs in their few armor pieces to chose from, that way you could personalize their stats and looks to a degree still restricting their aesthetics and their functional use in combat.

and real armor please...please. miranda can wear her catsuit in her office, jack can leave that strap contraption on the normandy, and samara needs to zip up in combat. im sure your artists can come up with armor designs that capture personal aesthetic of the characters without seriously challenging my suspension of disbelief as well. id also propse that we have 2 types of armor to aesthetically change for everyone: combat armor and hazard armor. combat armor would be just what you think, your everyday armor, while hazard armor would just contain minor visual variations in available combat armor pieces to make them sealed (think putting sleeves on grunt's gauntelts) and forcing you to equip from whatever selection of sealed helmets you have (shep would have variety to chose from, im thinking squadmates only really need one as its purely visual anyway). everyone wears combat armor when theyre....in combat, and hazard when in dangerous enviroments (think....chlorine atmospheres, chilling in space outside the derilect reaper? why is shepard the only one properly equipped in these situations? i felt like a pansy next to miranda; i need fully sealed suits and she barely needs a breather mask...). it wouldnt take much artistically once everyone's already in armor to seal them up.

and of course...helmet toggle. well not in sealed suits of course.

[stuka1000]

BuddyX wrote...

 I'm sorry. I was a huge fan of the first Mass Effect. However, not so much with the second. Many of the changes made to make this game feel more like a FPS, have detrimentally affected the RPG elements of the game. Some might have felt there was too much micromanaging of inventory and such, or too many skill to choose from, but isn't that part of a RPG? Customization? I wished Bioware would pay more attention to the forums, then I might have recourse to express my dissatisfaction. I appreciate your efforts in suggesting change to the ammo system, but I don't think it goes far enough. For instance, has anyone noticed that Shepherd is the only one who wears custom armor. A number of the other characters don't wear any armor, much less custom armor, or helmets. This change limits the number of unique locales you can visit. Skills have been stripped down to a measly 4 each, and there are no clearly defined character classes any longer. Instead of a clearly defined ruleset and then creating characters in it, ala a RPG, it's like they just shoehorned these new characters into a game they weren't designed for. Don't get me wrong. I like the story and character development that they kept, but the rest of the game feels too much like an action shooter to give it a passing grade. It is too much like playing Modern Warfare 2. Please Bioware... bring back the RPG. I think you skewed too far in trying to embrace the more casual action gamer. In these respects, Dragon Age was a far superior RPG to Mass Effect 2.

I agree with this.  Bioware made a name for themselves by creating excellent story driven RPG's and many of us here are the proud owners of most of them.  ME1 was no exception but ME2 although a great game in it's own right falls way short of it's predecessor.  The game and Bioware need a return to their roots.  I have nothing against making changes that are for the better but when those changes come at the expense of the story and RPG elements they can never be a good thing.

It is obvious that Bioware put a great deal of effort into producing the individual missions of ME2 to get away from the cookie cutter layouts of ME1 and this should have been a positive change welcomed by all.  What we ended up with though are missions that are way too short and easy to complete, even on insane, with convenient cover points that may as well have huge neon signs saying 'duck here, enemy incoming'.   As a result of the missions taking little time to complete we have planet scanning which let's face it, is just a time sink to drag the game out a bit as nobody would have been happy with a game that only lasted 15 - 20 hours.  What's more; Sovereign and the Geth were and felt like a major threat in ME1, while the Collectors in ME2 feel like no more than an inconvenience that gets in the way of sorting out your various crewmembers personal problems.  I feel like Shepard died and came back as the ship's councillor.

As far as armour and weapon issues go I feel that there wasn't a lot wrong with the ME1 system apart from the need to add an ammo requirement which I always though was needed in the first game.  The skill and levelling system in ME2 is a great deal inferior to ME1 and makes the game feel 'dumbed down' although that is a term that is overused these days in this instance it is appropriate.

To end I hope that Bioware realise that cutting down on the RPG aspects in favour of the FPS side of the game was a huge mistake.  They have a loyal and devoted following and history shows that companies who don't put existing customers first and instead change things in the hope of adding to that customer base from a different demographic run a great risk of losing both.  Hybrid games don't work.  Stick to what you are good at and guys, you are the best out there at what you do, it would be a tragedy if the suits at EA dragged you down.

[Scarecrow_ES]

Certainly if we were to have a system that would allow you to choose both the appearance of your armor AND any passive buffs it would have, that would be nice. But that falls squarely into the realm of "preference" that I described earlier. That's not something I wanted to get into (arguing the merits of one preference over another), for that very reason. The current armor system would work very well with a real buff increase for individual armor pieces. That would fundementally fix what is lacking in this system.



I don't want to in any way slight great ideas from the community for ways to incorporate a different functioning system to take the place of existing functioning systems. Hell, I could spend all day just typing out ideas like that. It's just not what I intended with this specific thread. That said, I do tend to like a hybrid global upgrade (a la ME2) with passive augments (a la ME1) system for weapons and armor customization, as described. You're right, it's the best of both worlds, and we'd be lucky to have it.

[Scarecrow_ES]

Frotality... this slotted augment system reminds me a lot of the system used in KotOR. I won't get into an arguement of preference, but if BioWare WERE to implement a system like that, well, at least they already have a very workable one to reference. Unfortunately, the whole "loot" concept does go against the current codex entries that state that, basically, omni-tools can make darn-near anything. There'd be no reason that you couldn't make any upgrade you could get the specs for. The concept of "loot" goes against ME lore in the way you hope. However, we could certainly find PLANS for new mods out in shops or on the battlefield, and we could produce those mods on the ship using mined resources. Plans could allow you to upgrade existing mod types rather than provide new incrementally better ones, thus eliminating the need for redundant inventory items. But again, we're talking about exchanging one working system for another out of preference.

[Frotality]

Scarecrow_ES wrote...

Frotality... this slotted augment system reminds me a lot of the system used in KotOR. I won't get into an arguement of preference, but if BioWare WERE to implement a system like that, well, at least they already have a very workable one to reference. Unfortunately, the whole "loot" concept does go against the current codex entries that state that, basically, omni-tools can make darn-near anything. There'd be no reason that you couldn't make any upgrade you could get the specs for. The concept of "loot" goes against ME lore in the way you hope. However, we could certainly find PLANS for new mods out in shops or on the battlefield, and we could produce those mods on the ship using mined resources. Plans could allow you to upgrade existing mod types rather than provide new incrementally better ones, thus eliminating the need for redundant inventory items. But again, we're talking about exchanging one working system for another out of preference.

what you describe would work as well, really what i meant to propose was something to give a sense of progression and reward from fights. my insatiable need to divulge my thoughts got the better of me however, and i did end up specifying way too much, ending up with what was basically my personal preferential system, i know thats not what this thread is for, ill try to be less....specific in the future:pinched:.

[We Tigers]

Scarecrow_ES wrote...
As far as class differentiation, I certainly don't want players to be able to have complete freedom over every power they have. I want distinct classes. However, having NO choice in what powers to invest in is just silly. To keep using the Infiltrator as an example... in ME1, I could get Overload, Damping, AI Hack (with a bonus skill), and half a dozen other skills. I could gain access to all but a few tech abilities if I wanted them. Now, I don't want a player to be able to open up ALL tech skill trees, just choose perhaps which one I want to use. Perhaps I do find Overload more useful than AI Hack. Why can't I use Overload then, instead? It really doesn't remove any nuance to party selection, as none of your party members adheres to the specific archetypes anyway. When you think about it, it doesn't affect party selection at all, but does give you greater choice in how YOU want your character to play. Of course, I think with truly evolved powers, as I propose, even powers you aren't too fond of will be more appealing in their evolved forms.

An interesting take.  In ME1, you certainly could get all those powers, which is why the Engineer was by far the least powerful (and I would guess, least played) class.  An infiltrator with AI Hack did everything the Engineer did, and did it with vastly better damage capabilities.  I believe it's better to have a game where every class has distinctive strengths and weaknesses.

Setting aside the notion of truly evolved powers for a second, I think being able to sub in any power you want could create significant game balance and design issues.  Now, that's fine; this is a single-player game. It really doesn't matter what character is the most powerful.  However, consider the infiltrator in its current form.  It has a direct damage armor buff in Incinerate, decent control powers for enemies at only health in Cryo ammo and Hacking, and an additional weapon power for taking down shields in disruptor ammo.  If you sub in Overload, you now have powerful direct damage buffs against both shields and armor, which is already the provenance of the engineer, plus the additional combat powers of the sniper and ammo powers.  Now, combat drone and cloak definitely create different playstyles, but I think Overload gives an Infiltrator too much of both parent classes for a hybrid, and results in too little differentiation between the Engineer and the Infiltrator.  I think keeping differences allows for more replay value and more interesting game overall, in that you actually have to weigh the positives and negatives of a class and play within those rules.  If you allow yourself to build a class that has all the best abilities of a given tree, you're undercutting the rest of the game you've built. 

Customization is nice, but I think Bioware attained great balance with the six redesigned classes.  To me, being able to pick all the best powers for one class is in the same spirit as the folks who wonder why they can't max every single skill.  This takes a lot of the choice, variety, and challenge out of the game, which I believe lessens it as a whole.

[Bob5312]

Scarecrow, I applaud your dedication to the subject. May I suggest posting a 'short version' with just your suggestions and a sentence or two each of explanation so that people can get the gist of your argument and refer to your extended reasoning if they wish?

My thoughts are:

I like the improved simplicity of the weapon system in ME2, but a bit of customization would be nice to suit individual play style. My suggestion would be to give each weapon a choice between a pair of mutually exclusive upgrades. For example, you could equip an assault rifle with a scope or a grenade launcher, or give a sniper rifle a damage bonus or a rate of fire bonus, but not both.

A similar system could be implemented for squadmate armour, in which each team member gets a choice between two armours that each confer different class-appropriate bonuses.

I like your suggestion for combining heat management with heat sinks.

I don't like the 'power meter' idea, it sounds too close to the mana system in traditional RPGs which causes its own problems.

I like your idea of picking a few skills from many options rather than having a hard and fast set of pre-assigned skills for each class.

I would like to add something to your list, because it felt unneccessary to spend such a long time recruiting to only use two squadmates at a time. More missions with a 'specialist' character (as in the suicide mission), and recruiting squadmates that give you new abilities (recruit a pilot to be able to call in a gunship strike, for example). I believe this would allow you to get a lot more mileage out of your squadmates as well as reap tangible benefits from recruiting them.

[Homebound]

Barker673 wrote...

Good luck getting ANYONE from BioWare onto the social site, I havn't seen anyone but Christine Norman here to talk about scanning improvements from like a week ago - where are they?

Shackled ball 'n chain style to their computer desks working on DLC's no doubt.  How dare they keep working and leave us unattended?!

[kalpain]

This thread has really got me thinking about this game. Has anyone addressed Credits and Resources, yet? Scanning... it just needs work to me. Yes, it's a mini-game but for me it was a long tedious process. Considering how it worked in ME1 (there is even a dialogue joke about it in another thread). But throughout the game I just never had enough Platinum. I was always scanning to try to get more than I needed which ultimately was still never enough. Always had plenty of everything else. Even finished the game with an over abundance of everything else.

Which brings me to credits. Even starting the game with a bonus from ME1 I still didn't end up with enough. I finished the game having done everything I could including all the side missions and still had about 3 upgrades I couldn't purchase cause there was no way for me to make any more money. Yes, I could have bet on the varren fights for 250 a pop put seriously that's more tedious than scanning. I wanted to be able to sell some resources I had in excess to be able to purchase upgrades I didn't have. But I was stuck. No more side missions, one more story mission and then it was game over. That being said, yes, I made it through the last mission just fine. But it would have been nice to have that last shield upgrade or sniper upgrade or what ever that other one was I can't remember. My next play through I might not do all the side missions. Arguably, it s going to force me to be more thoughtful about my upgrading process but it would be nice to have a way to be able make money. Having to rely on story, side missions, and the random credits you find in them seems counter intuitive to an RPG to me. The Zelda games are arguably action RPGs too but in a game like that you can find money under rocks. ME2 didn’t need an infinite money glitch like ME1 but just away to make money for those times you just want to buy something.

[Doright36]

I have no large issues with the proposals in the first post but there are a couple of things I'd add.



It seems like customizing your Shepard is a big focus of the game. ME 2 went a long way with this by allowing us to colorize or armor as we see fit and even gave us a "home" with some limited options.



I really REALLY would like to see options that expand my ability to choose how to equip my shepard beyond just the color of his armor. Heavy weapons were a nice addition but mainly for Soldiers. Why are my adepts and Sentinels forced to carry a ginormas heavy weapon on their back the entire game?



I was happy to see I no longer had to carry weapons I wasn't trained in use for but I still had to lug around the grenade launcher until I found the flame thrower which was at least smaller and more compact.



Also in regards to this too. We see many instances of Biotic combatants who go into battle in casual clothing or limited armor. I'd like to see this option given to Shepard as well.



Is an unequip option on the player character for weapons and armors something the game engine doesn't support? It's fine if that is the case but boy would it really improve the emersion and connection to the character for me.

[Jazharah]

Re-sticky please! grmlmutter

[Scarecrow_ES]

Frotality... I certainly don't want to discourage any discussion that could lead to ideas that can improve the game. If this topic goes that route, and we can keep the discussion intelligible, rather than the whole "EA is teh SuxorZ. Moar RPG Pleez!" schtick I see soo much of in this forum, then I am perfectly content to let it do so. You've contributed great ideas to the thread, and I'm happy for that. I just meant that for me personally, I don't much care for getting into a war of personality, which is often how discussions of preference break down into. If we can keep that from happening, I welcome any "specific" ideas you might want to share.



Tigers... I certainly agree that BioWare did a much better job of providing more distinct character classes this time around. I find it very interesting, however, that only YOUR character class holds so rigidly to this system. The "class" of your squadmates is far more chaotic. You have soldier/biotic/tech combos in there, which defies the established system. I'm certainly not suggesting we open up every possible power tree to the player and let him use them all. Of the two non class-specific (and non ammo) powers a character class gets, I merely suggest being able to choose which at least one of them is.



Our Infiltrator in ME1 was a debuff expert that could do some damage at range. If someone wants to play it that way in ME2, why not let them? Why force the player to use powers he doesn't want to? Is it so inconceivable that players might actually want to play differently? And certainly, having to give up one potentially useful power that I might not use for one potentially useful power I will seems like a balanced enough tradeoff. However, at heart, all hybrid character classes are basically just a squashing together of two pure classes. Perhaps making the class-specific powers, like Tactical Cloak, more compelling will help keep the individual classes more distinct, while allowing some power choice will actually make it feel more like the mash-up that it is.



Bob... I prefer not to think of the power meter system as a "mana" system, though I'm sure you could call it that. Ideally, the system works fundementally similar to the ME1 weapon heat system (minus the overheat), and so largely similar to the heat management system I propose for weapons.



Kalpain... I too found myself lacking in Platinum for most of the game. Surprisingly, there are quite a few planets out there that are just oozing the stuff. I was shocked when I looked at the guide to see just how many. Unfortunately, there's just no way to know what kind of resources are on what planet prior to harvesting. I like the planet mining and resource system... I just think it could use a lot of fleshing out. Perhaps give us a ship upgrade that lets us see the relative concentrations of minerals on the surface, so if we're lacking one particular mineral, we can find a planet that's rich with it. And of course, anything that makes the act of planet scanning less tedious would be highly welcome... there are literally dozens of ways this could be done though. And of course one other thing I could suggest would be to allow use to buy, sell, or trade mineral resources at some sort of mining guild. The could have a "store" somewhere where you could exchange an abundance of one mineral for credits or other minerals, which could ultimately solve both the lack of credits and the inability to locate specific resources when you need them.



One thing I actually thought might be interesting is to have fewer resource deposits on each planet, but have those deposits harvested over time. Meaning you set up a mining operation on any deposit you find... maybe only a handful of rich deposits per planet... and those operations pay out small amounts of resources every so often over time. You could sell the mining rights to those deposits for a substantial profit. Rich deposits would net you more resources, but you wouldn't be able to just scan one rich planet to get the resources you need at that moment and walk away. You'd have a real reason to seek out deposits on as many planets as you can, or you'll have to wait longer to accumulate enough resources for upgrades. Just a thought.

[Tasker]

Frotality wrote...


what i was thinking is the same modular armor system (in my dream world modualr weapons as well) with minor stat buffs, but the majority of your armor/weapon qualities coming from an expanded ME1 modification system. not more slightly different endless kinds of mods, but more parts to modify, with significant difference in available mods. say for armor you could modify underlay with something like 'devlon hazard weave' that confers a significant bonus to damage resistance, or 'siirta medi-gel nanoweave' that triggers health regen to start noticably sooner. you could have 'ceramic' and 'hardsuit computer' sections to modify as well. dont think i need any more examples to explain, but the same system could be applied to weapons. you could have stock, scope, body, grip, and barrel as the mostly aesthetic (still conferring minor bonuses, maybe visual difference when looking thru different scopes) areas to customize for a sniper; and something like firing chamber, mass effect core, and weapon computer for your practical modifications. available modifications could be around 5+ for each area, keeping them distinct,  while also adding up to a whole lotta of options with no giant list of crap to sort thru. have modifications buyable, maybe a few different levels of improvement or the ability to research upgrades for individual mods like the system in ME2, and you add meaningful progression to the system as well. not just applying to this system, but im thinking unique equipment could "drop" from certain enemies/bosses, as well as basic mods/pieces. conjure up some codex entry explaining how armor/weapon mods are too intricate to reproduce with the normandy's magical weapon duplicator, and we have a good reason to bring back the gathering of loot, but with no junk loot and distinct variety; hence a reason to do so, as virtually anything new would be desirable.

Similar to an idea I posted in another thread...


Armour and weapons of the same type should have basic differences in what they do, similar to the Damage/Penetration/Shots and Armour/Shield systems of ME1, with each having a variable amount of mod slots.

Ammo types should be turned back into mods, not abilities.

There should be 1 and only 1, not the 10 that ME1 had, level of each type of mod that can be inserted into or removed from the weapons or armour in a mix and match way. Meaning there would be only 1 frictionless material, only 1 snowblind ammo, etc...  

Mod/ammo blueprints should be found or bought and once obtained should be created using mined resources, with manufacturing making enough for the whole team.

Mods/ammo should each have a few levels of bonuses that can be researched and once researched all mods/ammo of the same name recieve that level of upgrade permanently.

Mods/ammo should be chosen from a dropdown menu and mods should be assigned from the ships armoury or weapon loadout points with the ammo being mission swapable similar to the abilities as they are now.


Now obviously these are just my opinions, but I reckon if it was done this way then both camps would be happy as it brings back inventory management but keeps it streamlined.

[Scarecrow_ES]

Good additions there, Orkboy... thanks for posting.

[SurfaceBeneath]

The best series of suggestions I've seen on these forums. I'm glad it has gotten some Bioware love, as it shows that they are paying attention.

[SurfaceBeneath]

stuka1000 wrote...
 The game and Bioware need a return to their roots.

I disagree completely. Bioware already has Dragon Age Origins for that.

Mass Effect needs to be a game that breaks genre boundaries and combines the best elements of both Action game and RPG in a way that improves the game as a whole. Mass Effect 2 has provided almost a perfect balance between them and should continue to develop in that direction.

[The Rickstah]

This man is smart & should serve as either the spokeperson or a role-model for this community.



You stole my thunder

[kalpain]

The Rickstah wrote...

This man is smart & should serve as either the spokeperson or a role-model for this community.

You stole my thunder

Agreed.  This thread is excellent.  Makes me long for a lot of the things suggested when I play the game.  I hope at least some of them get used in ME3.

[AtreiyaN7]

As a book designer, I have to admire your formatting. I thought your ideas were presented quite well, and you have some interesting proposals up there. Since I'm on PC, the controller issue is a moot point for me, but I wouldn't mind if BioWare put in our old PC keybinds for weapons, the journal and the codex. *wink wink nudge nudge, BioWare*

[Scarecrow_ES]

Reading some of the comments made since the launch of ME2 about the planet scanning and resource gathering system has made me do some thinking. I have been very reluctant to enter into the debate about the merits of this system because, as I've mentioned, it has not been my goal to deal with systems that already work; and while the planet scanning and resource gathering system can be extremely tedious (read: not fun), it is a system that fucntions well and does exactly what is intended. Having said that, I've been pouring over this system in recent days, and I've had a bit of a change of heart about entering into the debate.



While yes, the system does work mechanically speaking, it's not very engaging and at worst is no fun at all. It takes the player out of the game and essentially makes him do tedious and repetative work. Given how necessary it is to involve yourself in this system in order to progress in the game, I am not sure I can leave it unaddressed, so below I outline a series of changes to make planet scanning and resource management more engaging for the player, and might I say far more entertaining.



My version of planet scanning would actually be broken down into a series of steps, each of which presents basically a seperate mini-game. I would increase the number of types of resources, say to 5 or 6 varieties, but I would limit the number of mineral types per planet to 3. The richness of a planet's mineral resources will be related to the number of large deposits on the surface - richness will rated at 5 deposits for rich to 1 deposit for poor, and depleted will have 0.



When you first approach an unsurveyed planet, you will get the planetary information and basic richness level. Surveyed planets will also list any previously found mineral claims and other associated information. When you first bring up the scanner interface, it will present a system which controls largely like the current ME2 scanning system, but you will have a larger or faster moving cursor. Moving your cursor over a planet will reveal a sort of topographical map that shows the relative concentrations of mineral deposits on the surface. The revealed portions of the map will then be permanently overlayed on the planet surface so you can see what you've already scanned. The map will change color as you approach areas of high concentration... red peaks will represent very high concentrations of minerals. The scanner will NOT tell you what kind of minerals are at a given deposit. There will be a seperate mini-game for that. We can justify the lack of specific mineral identification in scanning by saying in codex that using the faster orbital scanning technique allows for an easier identification of mineral concentrations at the cost of specific mineral identification (if you need a scientific reason as to why we can't figure out what mineral we have from orbit).



Once you have found a mineral deposit, you send down a probe, as in the ME2 system. Unlike in the ME2 system, however, probes do not secure the minerals at a given location for you. They simply probe the area you ask, and send back 3 mineral samples you use for the next mini-game. In order to determine just what type of mineral you have at a given deposit, you enter into a sort of chemistry mini-game using the 3 samples your probe sends back. You find out which of the 5 or 6 types of minerals you have by mixing your samples with a series of chemical agents in a specific order. The order you use which reagents determines what mineral you are testing for, and you will be given a yes or no result (yes meaning that you have indeed found the mineral you were testing for). Running tests on a sample destroys the sample, so you can only run 3 tests per probe.



Each planet will only have 3 of the 5 or 6 mineral types on it, and the types of minerals it has will be determined by what type of planet it is (just like in the ME2 system). For instance, planets listed as Garden or Post-Garden worlds will be high in concentrations of Element Zero. Knowing what type of planet you're scanning and what types of minerals those planets tend to have will help you figure out which chemical tests you need to run. If you fail to determine what type of deposit you have found with the 3 given samples, you can send another probe to collect 3 more. You can also pay a fee of credits to have the tests run for you.



Once you have finally identified what kind of mineral deposit you have found, that deposit will be marked on the surface by a claim flag. You now own the rights to those resources. From this point, you can choose to send a mining team to the deposit to mine the resources, or if you wish, you can simply sell the rights to that deposit for credits to the "mining guild" via an interface in your personal terminal (which also keeps track of located deposits, mining teams, available resources, etc). You could also sell resources you have already mined for credits or trade them for other resources using the same system. There could even be a real economic component to mineral sales, as flooding the market with a given type of mineral will both lower its value as well as raise the cost of other more rare types of minerals.



In order to harvest any mineral deposits you have found, you will have to send a mining team to the deposit. You will only have a limited number of mining teams, and you can reassign them at any time. This means you can only gain resources for as many deposits as you have mining teams. Mining teams will funnel minerals into your mineral bank slowly over time, until they have depleted the deposit they are assigned to, or until you pull them off. This infuses a bit of strategy into the resource management system.



Given the greater number of steps with their associated mini-games, I think utilizing the planet scanning and resource management systems as I've just proposed will be a lot more fun, and would result in the type of system you could lose yourself in for hours without it becoming tedious. Adding a greater amount of strategy to the process of aquiring resources, and giving greater reward for expertly using the system should add a greater level of satisfaction for the player. Further, adding additional uses for minerals harvested, such as for currency or additional manufacturing options, adds greater weight to the usefulness of the system to the overall gameplay experience.



Let me know what you think.

[Scarecrow_ES]

The only reason I suggested a change for controller settings was to incorporate controls for the power charging system, which would likely require face buttons to be used. Also, for whatever reason, the ME2 controller system leaves unused buttons, and I hate that. Click both thumbsticks to open a mini-map? Hit the back button to put away your gear? Really? Why not find some real use for those buttons? So I did. I know it really doesn't apply to the PC guys, but I think with my charging system, the retuned controller mapping really helps out.

[Scarecrow_ES]

OH! And before I forget...



This is for We Tigers, but pertains to the discussion about class distinction and power selection...



I have done some thinking about how I could implement my system for selecting some of your character's skill trees in a way that would appeal to your sense of balanced gameplay. I think I've arrived at a solution that should please you...



With the exception of the 2 class specific skill trees, the remaining 4 trees basically break down into ammo powers, offensive powers, and support powers. I say, perhaps, allow the user to choose which two ammo powers he gets from the basic selection of disrupter, cryo, and flame ammo (I think those 3 are it). For the two remaining powers - offensive and support - allow the user to select which, in each category, they want to use according to their class archetype alignment. For an Infiltrator (tech alignment), for instance a player could select for the offensive power either the default Incineration Blast, or swap it for Overload or Cryo Blast. For the support power, he could keep AI Hack, or exchange it for something like Drone (I'm not sure what else there is). This ensures that the player can have choice in his skill set, maintains his class alignment to realistically available skills, and still maintains your sense of balanced gameply by preventing the player from loading up on offensive abilities (such as having both Overload and Incineration Blast at the same time for Infiltrators).



What do you think? Would that specific change get you on board with the idea?

[Arijharn]

Generally I like the OP's idea's, I think they're fresh but at the same time relevant to the 'spirit' of the Mass Effect world and franchise. Having said that, I think we can flesh it out by bouncing ideas..

Biotic Powers, Cooldowns and classes
I personally believe that with the emphasis on the different 'schools' of a Biotic as described in the codex entry why there couldn't be necessarily a combined cooldown (global) in regards to this. This would allow quick and fluid gameplay in terms of unleashing 'spell combinations' without allowing the class to cast spells with impunity. For example, a biotic ability like warp could be deemed from SPATIAL DISTORTION school which means it wouldn't necessarily effect the casting of the spell Pull from TELEKINESIS. In addition, because it doesn't have a mana bar, it doesn't necessarily unfairly affect classes that depend on Biotics (such as the Adept) who must rely on it compared to it that don't rely on it as much. This basic concept could be expanded to Tech powers (because Cyro powers wouldn't necessarily be affected by Incinerate etc.

Personally, I enjoyed greatly the concept of Evolving powers, and I agree with you in principle that the current tiered system does not really work at higher levels due to the wasted points.

To give food for thought, I think Biotics and Tech Powers should be powerful enough that for the dedicated classes like the Adept or the Engineer that 'sure, you can fire a gun, but why would you want too?' The global cooldown enforces this, whereas for the soldier your main focus is of course your weapon and you should fire it as much as possible, but as is for the Adept (which is the class I have most experience with) it makes you fight 'less than you should.' As awesome as crowd control is, at some point you actually want to destroy your target.

Spell/Ability charge usage (not to be confused, necessarily, with the Vanguard spell!)
This, in principle is a good idea, but I think it fails on certain points. One, how well would the system translate to the PC and 2; what about those people who actually enjoy using the power wheel? Selfishly, in this case I'm talking about me but i'll expand on what I'm talking about.

In Mass Effect, the game pauses while you do this (at least, it definitely does in 2, I can't recall if it does in 1, at the very least time slows drastically down) allowing you to position powers precisely before the target potentially becomes untargetable due to the circumstances within the battlefield (i.e., moving too deep into cover, etc).

To avoid confusing the issue, if the idea of 'charging' the ability would make sense on the PC (holding down the  hotkey) then 'simply' adding a 'cast bar' under the spell slot could work. Mechanically, the 'game' itself is still on-pause (or in this case, game-time is dilated if the concept of a 'free' charge could trivilize content), but the castbar itself fills up realtime.

Alternatively, perhaps having different buttons on the ability 'wheel' to designate the difference between the normal spell/ability compared to the charged 'evolve' capability. Personally however, I like the idea of the 'Evolved' ability replacing and adding/changing the original as appeared in ME2.

[steve1945]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

stuka1000 wrote...
 The game and Bioware need a return to their roots.

I disagree completely. Bioware already has Dragon Age Origins for that.

Mass Effect needs to be a game that breaks genre boundaries and combines the best elements of both Action game and RPG in a way that improves the game as a whole. Mass Effect 2 has provided almost a perfect balance between them and should continue to develop in that direction.

See I disagre massively here. I hate it when games break genre boundaries. Blending is ok. But breaking is a hell no for me. Iv seen it with games before and im seeing it now. The breaking of the genre ends up muding the expierence as a whole. For a example DOW2. A interesting and fun game that recieved good reviews. Flop and barely populated multiplayer.

its that breaking of the genre to attract new fans that actively kills games in my opinion.

Blending is fine which is what ME1 was. ME2 almost broke it but it was servicable. I have some fair amounts of complaints for ME2 such as the ammo system that I personely hated. The fuel system which I thought was a gimmick. The inventory system that was striped ;_; made me very said along with the armor and weapons. Its so limited it really is upseting.

Hopefully these things will be adressed to make better expierence for me and more traditional RPG players.

[SurfaceBeneath]

steve1945 wrote...

See I disagre massively here. I hate it when games break genre boundaries. Blending is ok. But breaking is a hell no for me. Iv seen it with games before and im seeing it now. The breaking of the genre ends up muding the expierence as a whole. For a example DOW2. A interesting and fun game that recieved good reviews. Flop and barely populated multiplayer.

its that breaking of the genre to attract new fans that actively kills games in my opinion.

Blending is fine which is what ME1 was. ME2 almost broke it but it was servicable. I have some fair amounts of complaints for ME2 such as the ammo system that I personely hated. The fuel system which I thought was a gimmick. The inventory system that was striped ;_; made me very said along with the armor and weapons. Its so limited it really is upseting.

Hopefully these things will be adressed to make better expierence for me and more traditional RPG players.

I mean this in no due offense, but perhaps you are simply looking at the wrong game for you then. It has been stated many times by Bioware that they intend Mass Effect to be a game that is decidedly untraditional and does not fall under the category of a Traditional RPG. Again, this is a category already filled quite sufficiently by Dragon Age. I ask you: is it fair to ask for a company to be bound to a single genre for each of their games and never be allowed the opportunity to experiment? They have already openly criticized Japanese RPG developers for doing that, it is extremely unlikely given this progressive attitude that they will follow the same route.

Maybe Bioware needs to be a company not just for those who like a very particular brand of Traditional RPG. They certainly are not abandoning those players, given their commitment to the Dragon Age IP. However for them to thrive as a company, they must not constrain themselves by artificial genre barrier and introduce gamers of other genres to games of strong narrative and character driven quality, that no other gaming company besides Bioware does.