96 réponses à ce sujet

[darth_lopez]

elucid07 wrote...

sleepy__head wrote...

I am saying that you never have to believe that the End Justify The Means because Cerberus never once forces Shepard to do ANYTHING that goes against his/hers ethics.

Odd.  I believe working with known murderers is against my Shep's ethics.  Is there a choice to not work with Cerberus?  No, I don't think so either.

Good morning sunshine - just letting you know here's your reality check: your prissy little paragon Shepard is just as much a murderer as any other character you run with. In fact, I dare say, your morally sound and ethically spotless paragon Shep has quite a number of kills racked up. Through both games.

Justified, legalised, sanctioned or otherwise - you're still killing a f*ckton of people who are just doing their jobs. That my boy, is murder.

idk i always thought Cerberus was a Terrorist and Human Superiority group....Shep paragon supports multilateral work with other species, cerberus is obviously just using shepard to meet an ends i'm sure had it been any other human working for them alien, especially quarian, involvement would have not happened at all, but really who in their right minds is gonna betray shepard?--oh wait the illusive man when he sends you to a "derilect ship disabled by turians" and when you find out he baited the collectors to Horizon.--- You also have the ability to argue with said Illusive man over these happenings....not against sheps morals?i think not unless you're renegade however the relationship is symbiotic and touchy at best with cerberus until the end.

[sleepy__head]

I understand your point about the game not allowing a paragon option in the beginning. But I dont think its a correct assessment of there not being a paragon mode, consider this.

I'd disagree with your statement, and here is why.  I feel that in every point in the game you are denied the option to, at the very least, explain why you are doing what you are doing.  When you run into Kaidan, you are stuck with the lame old "But Cerberus is the only group doing anything" excuse.  A paragon reply to me would be "No, I didn't choose to be resurrected by these guys.  I did not agree to work for, or work with The Illusive Man.  I would rather help Anderson convince the now human council to get the rest of the aliens united to fight and not ignore what is coming, the flaming wreck of the Reaper carcess in the citadel being prove that this is not just a vision."  When you get an email from Corporal Toombs, he was essentially demanding to know why a Paragon Shep would have given him the paragon spiel back in ME1 only to team right up with the people he was denouncing.  In that case there wasn't even a conversation to defend oneself because you cannot reply to emails.  When Jack lumped you together with Cerberus, you cannot tell her that you despise Cerberus' methods, history and illegal acts as much as her, heck the conversations were deliberately made to avoid some of those very topics which Shepard has no answers to.  When Miranda told Shep that he was resurrected with full free will, apparently the choice to not join Cerberus on their ship does not exist.  In ME1 you can choose to file or not file post-mission reports, but in ME2 when TIM wants to have a chat with you you hop up like a good boy and run into the comm room and can't ignore it, delay it, or hang up on him.  Then we have  the writers deliberately made all the other aliens in the entire galaxy blind and deaf and stupid just so you feel you have no other choice.  The list goes on and on with all the things that are forcing you down one and only one path.

[Lukertin]

elucid07 wrote...
Justified, legalised, sanctioned or otherwise - you're still killing a f*ckton of people who are just doing their jobs. That my boy, is murder.

Justified killing is not murder.  Murder is the illegal or unjustified killing of another.  Ms. Shepard the Paragon kills out of self-defense, or as the agent of a law enforcement group tasked with removing extremely dangerous people into custody.

Modifié par Lukertin, 02 février 2010 - 07:27 .

[CoryHall24]

It seems like the major factor that comes up is the paragon/renegade storyline.  From what I've read and interpretted: Seems like the OP would love to see the paragon and renegade stories taking a complete different look which I favor as well.  With this story (ME2) it seems your stuck though because Cereberus did bring you back and your lost on where everyone is and what is going on.  Most of the story you always talk about not trusting Cereberus and it seems at the end you tell TIM to get lost if you go paragon.  Maybe this will set up ME3 to do a nice overhaul such as splitting the story completely.

Things I'd like to see in ME3 to help with this issue

Paragon story (if you played ME1 and ME2 completely paragon)
Tell your crew at the beginning of ME3 your saving the galaxy for the over all well being of the galaxy and not the human race.  People who are faithful to Cereberus or don't like the "good guy way" jump ship.  Then you go recruit the old people (Wrex, Ashley/Kaiden, Liara) and any other additions (Kahlee and others from Book 1 and 2, if any of you have read them). 

Renegade story (if you played ME1 and ME2 completely renegade)
All the corrupt crew mates that just want to pillage the universe and have personal gain join you.  I think as well if you go full out renegade in ME3 and still are under Cereberus you should go kill TIM and run Cereberus yourself since you are the baddest dude in the galaxy.

[sometimesCATHY]

sleepy__head wrote...


- Smoking.  Grade D-.  To Bioware writers, hollywood had by now given up on trying to stick a cigarette on every badguy to make them look badder.  It doesn't make a NPC cool.  It doesn't make him badass.  Kids play this game, and this isn't the right message to send.  There are FAR better and more effective way to make TIM look "t3h pwnz" and "l33t".  Yes, it requires more work and thoughts, but this tired old cliche needs to go.  Get rid of that cigarette, the only thing it shows is a lack of originality on the part of the writer.
 
 

Kids shouldn't be playing this game in the first place. It IS rated M for a reason. Your theory is invalid.

And I agree with the people who say that it's ridiculous to give Tali romance an "F" just cause you can't see her face. Maybe you'll get to see it in ME3 and maybe Bioware didn't want to show her face quite yet. Who knows?

And a lot of players (including myself) love/like having Miranda on our squad. Just because you don't like the way she looks, doesn't mean you have to bash the girl completely.

Just sayin

[AZKanaka]

I'll try to deconstruct some of your most vehement arguments that have started to grate on me:



First, the gun thing. I can honestly say that in ANY situation involving firepower, I would choose an ME2 style weapon. The reason? They pack more punch (in-game). ME2 weapons were explained through the lore as able to generate a stronger mass effect field and able to accelerate particles to a much higher speed and force. The tradeoff is that they overheat much quicker than original ME1 guns, making them worthless without ejectable heatsinks. With breakthroughs in shield and armor technology, ME1 weapons would be equivalent to bee stings on a rhino in ME2. Newer weapons took advantage of the Geth heatsink tech to create stronger firing weapons to counteract stronger defenses. It's the classic struggle of advancing weaponry.



Now, your issue with Cerberus. Your reference to Al Qaeda is fallacious. Cerberus would actually be closer to, let's say, Catholicism. Catholics throughout the centuries have committed atrocious acts in the name of their beliefs, much like Cerberus does in the first game. Does that mean that all Catholics are evil? No, just that the acts themselves are evil. Would you refuse to join the Catholic Church if it meant that every single entity you had ever known would be decimated? Most would say no. And if you refused, congratulations, you kept your honor and watched as your universe crumbled around you.



Hey, I'll even give you a story behind your refusal to work with Cerberus:



TIM: Shep, I need you.

Shep: No, I love kitties and rainbows and I'll go talk to the Alliance. They'll for sure change their stance now that they see I'm alive!

-------

Shep: Help us, please?

Alliance: Sure, we just need you to fill out this packet in triplicate, get 500 alien signatures, and pay a 3500 credit processing fee. After that, your request for aid will be evaluated by the Alliance Council in three months time. We hope for the best.







See how Cerberus is your best option? And even if you don't like them, their information and resources are unparalleled. Just say to yourself "I'm just using their stuff, we're not friends." and you should get along fine.

[sleepy__head]

Justified, legalised, sanctioned or otherwise - you're still killing a f*ckton of people who are just doing their jobs. That my boy, is murder.

Please bother to check the common definition of murder for your relevant country before joining this discussion.  Just because you declare something is such and such does not make it so you can use it as a de facto gospel in an arguement.  I'll even give you one for free, from WIkipedia : "Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought), and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter)."  Now consider that every red enemies in the game will fire at you as soon as you get in range, defending yourself isn't murder.  Want an example of a murder?  You defeat the owner of Chora's Den, he surrenders, and you blow him away anyway after talking to him.  Another example : Saren popping Nihlus in the back of the head in mid conversation.  Next.

And do leave your profanity at the door.  Using typing tricks to bypass the forum's profanity filter is most definitely a renegade act, and against forum policies to boot.

[Valcutio]

Ya, I'm really upset that I can't just stop shooting people and go live in a hippy camp and sing songs. Diplomacy, man... we all need to have a sit down with the reapers.



That's Paragon, brah. That's Paragon....

[BaronIveagh]

I give ammo an F. Reason? Insanity mode.



I'm pretty consistent with head shots, use ammo powers, and I'm still running out of ammo in places. In all my guns, not just, say, my sniper rifle. This is particularly irritating when you get 'locked' in an area with no ammo spawn. Bring your nuke guns and hope you have a full charge.

[BaronIveagh]

Sorry, stupid double post.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 02 février 2010 - 07:47 .

[darth_lopez]

Valcutio wrote...

Ya, I'm really upset that I can't just stop shooting people and go live in a hippy camp and sing songs. Diplomacy, man... we all need to have a sit down with the reapers.

That's Paragon, brah. That's Paragon....

nah, paragon shep still wants to beat em to death with a metal pole he pulled out of garrus's ass.

[sleepy__head]

AZKanaka wrote...

I'll try to deconstruct some of your most vehement arguments that have started to grate on me:

I stopped right there and didn't even bother reading the rest of your post.  If someone's opinion on a public forum about a computer game can actually grate on you, then you are taking forum discussions a bit more seriously than you should.  The fact that you perceived my OP as "vehement' hints to me that perhaps you need to accept that this wasn't a hate post, specially considering that in the first line I gave the game an overall score of A-.  You don't have to agree with me.  I don't agree with some of the feedback but thats just the way of life.  Some stated their disagreement politely and that was that, I don't have a need for them to see things my way.  There is no reason for you to take a game discussion personally.  If this "grates on you", how about click "Back", then go play or read something else.

[CmdrFenix83]

sleepy__head wrote...

Basically you are saying the ends justify the means.  I disagree with that philosophy.  Whether your or I is correct or incorrect is rather irrevelant, because my point is that a RPG should give you the choice to make either stand.  In ME2, you are only given one choice.

It is akin to believing that there is nothing that can be done to eliminate the threat of terrorism except by becoming terrorists ourselves to those who threaten us.  Again, doesn't matter if your view point or mine view point is right or wrong.  The essence of roleplaying is to be allowed to make these difficult choices, not to have those choices dictated to us by railroading and just plain not being provided with those conversational option.  The fact that we can choose to blow up the Collector ship at the very end does not in any way excuse the lack of roleplaying choices throughout the entire game.

Otherwise I might as well just read a book and then choose to read whether Side A or Side B wins at the end.  Thats not a RPG, thats a novel.

The point is that you have no other options.  If they gave you the option to tell of Cerberus from the start... "Critical Mission Failure" would come up on screen and game over.  You don't seem to understand that the Council and Alliance WILL NOT HELP YOU.  They think you're nuts.  Cookoo.  Delusional.  No funding, no logistics, no ship, and no crew.  You cannot do anything without someone funding your mission.  Absolutely nothing.  You simply do not have a choice but to accept Cerberus's assistance, or sit by and watch the Collectors and the Reapers succeed.  If you want to take the high road, you have to grit your teeth and deal with it.  I don't like the idea of working with Cerberus either, none of my Shepards do... but there's simply no alternative to saving the trillions of lives in the galaxy.

[Axx Bytehoven]

 LOVE the game. Really too many great things to list them all, so I'll focus on what I hate about ME2


Hate:

-Not enough credits to stay on top of available upgrades. No way I'm buying fish, hamster, etc on my 2nd play as I might need the cash for an upgrade.
-Not enough Med-Gel 
-No way to change Squad skill allocation due to bad choices. I like being able to change Shepard even though it cost some precious Element Zero.
-Squad doesn't know how to stay alive on Insanity. I mean come one, I got enough things to do. managing attacks on the combatants, I gotta baby sit Garrus and Grunt so they don't die? This combined with short Med-Gel supply really makes me mad.
-Store bought upgrades are redundant? Not sure if this is true but if it is, this sucks since credits are hard to come by.
-Romance: I say eliminate the romance if we're not going to get a real "M" quality romance reward.
-Plant Scanning was cool for a couple of planets. Now I agree with the comment about Joker being a slacker for not taking care of business while I'm out saving the galaxy, kicking ass and collecting names. 
-Not enough difference in ammo/power performance for the skill level cost. Sharing with squad is the only real benefit from taking some stuff to lvl (4). Maybe AREA effect is worth it as well
-Giving a squad mate lvl (4) ammo and choosing share, causes Shepard to switch to the squad ammo in a fire fight, rather than stay on what I want him to shoot. I want to be able to keep something different in my weapon and not have to change back constantly when my select gets over ridden.
-Fuel/Probes: It was a nice idea until I have had to live with it for awhile. Again, given credits are so scarce, spending significant $$$ on exploring when I really need the $$$ to buy important upgrades ticks me off.
-DON'T JUMP TO MISSION FROM AN EMAIL  Damn this has caused me grief on Insanity when I wasn't prepared.
-What happened to the camera angles with Shepard's view? Used to be able to move the camera around to get a good peek at the squad chickies or the dancers. Not anymore.
-Aria, is that it? She might be the official hot babe in ME2. Like Shia'la on Feros in ME1, which seeing her again was a nice tease in ME2. 
-Cougar, I mean Samara... Really?  Nuff said.

Anyway, love ME2.   Can't wait for ME3.  Thanks BioWare!

Modifié par Axx Bytehoven, 02 février 2010 - 08:11 .

[CmdrFenix83]

mgass wrote...

I'll piggy back on the original post with the Mass Effect 2 XBOX 360 console version.

I am SO disappointed in the game so far I can't even see straight.  I just got done with the first round of recruitment and am on some planet with Asari.  A say "some planet" because on the console version the lettering is so small you can't even READ the words of ANYTHING. 

Carpal tunnel?  You think holding a mouse button down for 5 minues is bad, try holder the left trigger as you manually scan 5 planets for 20 minutes. 

Import your character?  Why?  Seriously.  The skills set in ME2 isn't as extensive, the leveling isn't anything like ME1, and after thinking my Vanguard was going to be reborn, I started a simple Soldier from scratch.  Why you ask?

Because instead of the smooth, seamless combat of ME1, we get a third-person shooter in ME2.  Truly.  Forget Biotics saving your butt, or having your engineer hack a huge mech... you simply run for cover and HOPE you have enough ammo.    If not, oh well.  

Bugs?  TRULY????  I got stuck in a WALL!!!   I had to restart the mission because I was STUCK IN A WALL!!!  

ME2 is a step BACK from ME1 which was a GREAT game.  It had replay value.  You wanted to play a Vanguard.  You wanted to try out a pure Adept.  Toy with the powers a bit.  In ME2, forget it.  if you picked any class but Soldier, good luck.  You get two weapons and your ammo will be gone leaving you to rely SOLELY on one or two powers.

O... M... G...

I can only guess that Bioware fired the guy responsible for ME1 and put an idiot in charge of making ME2.

Oh, right... good stuff...

Great visuals.  Great voice acting.  I actually like the simplified weapons/armor where you simply research to upgrade. 

Other than that, I'll send Bioware the doctors bill after I finish scanning planets...

Oh, and let me add this last thing.  I will play ME2 ONE TIME.   ONCE.  That is it.  Then, it goes on the shelf.  I'm not buying anything by Bioware until they fire the idiot responsible for Dragon Age and ME2.

The Adept is far more powerful than the soldier.  Warp did more damage than most of the heavy weapons.  Singularity was capable of taking out whole armies of husks if placed right... and with the Biotic damage supplementing you, the 3-round Battle Rifle was just perfect.  Soldier is downright *disappointing* in this game.  And this is from someone that was planning to import two soldiers, and found it the favorite class in Me1. 

Glitches aren't uncommon in games of this magnitude, and none of them are truely gamebreaking.  At worst, you have to back up a couple minutes thanks to autosave working like a checkpoint system.

The combat changes were because ME1 was far too easy.  Soldier in Collusus with a dual heat-sinked spectre rifle was able to just walk down hallways with the trigger held.  The gun would auto-aim for you and kill everything on the other side while even missles and the plasma shots from Geth Collosi were shrugged off *without* using immunity. 

The only negative you bring up that I agree with is the planet scanning.  That's something that would have been far more suitable for EDI to do herself.  She could handle it in seconds instead of ten minutes.  Pointless timesink.  At least subsequent playthroughs give you a bonus of 50k to each resource so you don't need nearly as much... and none when it comes to Eezo.

[AtreiyaN7]

Axx Bytehoven wrote...

 LOVE the game. Really too many great things to list them all, so I'll focus on what I hate about ME2


Hate:

-Not enough credits to stay on top of available upgrades. No way I'm buying fish, hamster, etc on my 2nd play as I might need the cash for an upgrade.
-Not enough Med-Gel 
-No way to change Squad skill allocation due to bad choices. I like being able to change Shepard even though it cost some precious Element Zero.
-Squad doesn't know how to stay alive on Insanity. I mean come one, I got enough things to do. managing attacks on the combatants, I gotta baby sit Garrus and Grunt so they don't die? This combined with short Med-Gel supply really makes me mad.
-Store bought upgrades are redundant? Not sure if this is true but if it is, this sucks since credits are hard to come by.
-Romance: I say eliminate the romance if we're not going to get a real "M" quality romance reward.
-Plant Scanning was cool for a couple of planets. Now I agree with the comment about Joker being a slacker for not taking care of business while I'm out saving the galaxy, kicking ass and collecting names. 
-Not enough difference in ammo/power performance for the skill level cost. Sharing with squad is the only real benefit from taking some stuff to lvl (4). Maybe AREA effect is worth it as well
-Giving a squad mate lvl (4) ammo and choosing share, causes Shepard to switch to the squad ammo in a fire fight, rather than stay on what I want him to shoot. I want to be able to keep something different in my weapon and not have to change back constantly when my select gets over ridden.
-Fuel/Probes: It was a nice idea until I have had to live with it for awhile. Again, given credits are so scarce, spending significant $$$ on exploring when I really need the $$$ to buy important upgrades ticks me off.
-DON'T JUMP TO MISSION FROM AN EMAIL  Damn this has caused me grief on Insanity when I wasn't prepared.
-What happened to the camera angles with Shepard's view? Used to be able to move the camera around to get a good peek at the squad chickies or the dancers. Not anymore.
-Aria, is that it? She might be the official hot babe in ME2. Like Shia'la on Feros in ME1, which seeing her again was a nice tease in ME2. 
-Cougar, I mean Samara... Really?  Nuff said.

Anyway, love ME2.   Can't wait for ME3.  Thanks BioWare!

Three things:

• Store-bought upgrades are not redundant - they will allow you a particular level of research from what I've seen. Of course I have over 300,000 credits still now that I've finished the game. What can I say, I've always been good at accumulating gold/credits in games - hah (that  and I had the Rich bonus from ME1 - muahaha).
• Regarding level 4 ammo - well, you chose it for that very reaason...just don't take that particular squad member along as the simplest solution, OR change your ammo back after your squad member uses the group ammo buff. I believe the ability description for any squad ammo buff says that it only lasts until overwritten by a different ammo buff  (if I'm wrong, then my bad).
• Romances: they were actually mature and well-done (at least on the female side in my view). I was impressed by my FemShep's romance scene with Thane. Sometimes it's about more than ripping off clothes - not that I mind seeing some skin, but I came around. There was fear, anger, and vulnerability on display when Thane was shaking with emotion and slamming his fist into the table. Also, the tears + passionate kiss pretty much worked. Mind you, in DA:O I basically agreed that in THOSE love scenes they should have gone all the way - what we got seemed like an unsatisfactory compromise in DA:O. It depends on the situation/game, but I was pleased all in all with ME2.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 02 février 2010 - 08:27 .

[ZennExile]

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...

(warning MAJOR spoilers)
(warning EXTREMELY long post)

Some feed back for the developers  :

First, thank you for a great game (my last game that I really have time for).  I want to give you guys my input on the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.  There will be praises, but there will also be criticisms.  This thread isn't for those who think this game suxx0rz or that Bioware can do no wrong.  Trolls and apologists should click "Back" now.  Here goes :

TLDR version :
Overall score : A-

Long version :

THE GOOD
- Character depth.  Grade : A.  Hearing Mordin sing, watching him do deep, meaningful soul searching, within his mission as well as on the Normandy really brings him alive and makes me view him as a person instead of just a tech mobile platform.   NPCs like Tali, Garrus, Thane etc. have their own flaws and strengths, making it believable and they are not one dimensional.
[/quote]
C+ because ME1 set the bar this high to begin with and ME2 just barely met it with 1 character.  And there is no teamate banter in ME2 where in ME1 is was everywhere and often hilarious.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Voice acting .  Grade : A+.  Jennifer Hale, nuff said.  Mordin's voice actor is also really good.  Joker is specially funny, perfectly captured the nerdy geeky type who has the creaky bones.
[/quote]
Agreed for the most part.  I would probably say B+ / A-  though because some of the acting was terribad.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Multiple romance options.  Grade : B+.  From the casual/easy one (Kelly) to the wide range of characters we can choose, its an improving over ME1.  The only slight downside is that you get the typical sex-right-before-the-final-fight.  That just doesn't seem realistic and not how it works in the real world.
[/quote]
Had to give this one a C-.  The bar was set higher than this in ME1 and ME2 failed to even reach it.  The relationships weren't deep or meaningful in any way.  For a group of people who were heading to almost certain death together you'd think they would develop a deep and meaningful bond, but that just wasn't the case.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Customize personal quarters.  Grade : A.  I love the fishies, thank god I like them so much I always made a point to feed them before I even know they can die.  The fact that you can hang ship models, invite your LI to cuddle there and can set music is a very nice touch.  Its a nice dirty little bribe from Cerberus, but I'll take it lol.
[/quote]
A here as well.  The models the fishtank and the hampster along side a hidden toilet really made it feel like personal space.  I feel they could have expanded on it to make it better but the same could be said about 90% of the game.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- No more tedious mountain climbing.  Grade : B+.  I do not miss having to repeatedly climb some impossibly steep hills because the moron who designed the level put some anomaly up on top.  However, I DO miss driving the Mako around.
[/quote]
You didn't have to climb mountains if you found the path.  But people are impatient and they should have designed the maps with that in mind.  Planet exploration was a massive part of the original game and not because it took forever.  The fact that they replaced it with a boring scanner, even on worlds where you get to land, earned ME2 a big fat   F-
for cutting out one of the best parts of the original game instead of improving it.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- No more cheesy Thresher Maw death.  Grade : A+.  Nothing is more annoying than to be driving around and then have a thresher maw pop up under your Mako, flipping it around so you end up stuck.  Thank god Bioware had removed that crap.  The battle of the thresher maw on the Krogan planet is fun, dangerous, balanced and plausible.  A cheesy one-hit kill forcing you to reload is something that I'm very glad to see gone in ME2.
[/quote]
The whole idea behind the Thresher is that you are not safe from a giant vehicle swallowing worm of doom so don't rush into a wide open field where one might be or you will die.

F- again for eliminating one of the best things about ME1, Thresher Battles, and replacing it with "Really Captain?  Probing Uranus..."

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Humor.  Grade A+.  There are many many funny moments in the game, some made me spit soda all over my monitor.  Its good to see that a game can be dark and gritty and serious, and still makes me laugh.  Some of the funny bits are also quite clever ("I had the reach she had the flexibility" lmao), some were part of the game lore like krogans making comments regarding who's got the quads and such.  Very nicely done and original.
[/quote]
Can't argue here.  The comentary was hilarious.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Surprises (Major spoiler warning).  Grade A+.  The fact that Collectors are Protheans, and that you can recruit a Geth to fight along side you, and that the Reaper takes the shape of the race that it is made from are all excellent surprises.  I THOUGHT the Reaper in ME1 looked a little like calamari.
[/quote]
There was no supprise that the collectors were protheans.  This was made obvious in the first game.  The reapers changed organics to suit their needs.  They never wiped them out.  This was obvious.  Also the Geth was obvious from the story arc in the first game.  The makers attempted to kill the geth and they ousted them.  Then the Geth hid away until the Reaper manipulated them.  The only supprize was the writers trying to blaim the heretic geth on 1+1 = 3 instead of just going with reaper manipulation.

F-   I was not supprized or shocked by anything in ME2 other than maybe how terribad the Singlular and Linear Story was compared to the deep branching web of story arcs found in ME1...

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- A wide variety of missions.  Grade A-.  Yes, there are still a lot of kill-all type missions, but there are enough of other types to keep things interesting.  And thank god there are no more of the endlessly same warehouse/ship maps like in ME1.
[/quote]
You attempted to defend your grade first which means you know this is a farse from the get go.  The variety of missions is "OK" for current gen RPGs but compared to ME1 is absolute garbage.  There is almost no Variety.

Due to the level of the bar set by ME1 I have no choice but to give ME2 a C here.  They hit the average mark but absolutley pale in comparison to the first game.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Tears.  Grade A.  Very nice visuals on adding tears to a NPC who is crying.  Very few games do that, and fewer still can pull it off.
[/quote]
Have to give this one a B.  Yes tears are better than the average RPG but they were still kinda hokey and just looked like lines of glitter glued to their faces.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
THE BAD
- There is no Paragon, only Renegade.  Grade : D.  Someone else had already covered this part in great details.  Essentially, ME2 plays well if you enjoy playing your Shep as a renegade.  You are given the illusion of trying to be paragon, but it is railroaded, manipulative and dishonest.  With the exception of the end up, your Paragon Shep cannot actually take a stand and say : "Sorry Mister/Miss, THE END DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS."  The writer essentially FORCED you to work for Cerberus, and it always comes down to the same lame excuse of : "Oh they are the only one who can get things done".  The choice to not cooperate with them is not an option.  This is the antithesis to roleplaying.  Its more like just passively reading a novel.
[/quote]
Not really an issue for most considering this part of the trilogy was meant to be dark and all this is based on personal opinion about what is right and wrong.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Suspension of Belief, Cerberus.  Grade : D.  Sorry folks, I don't buy that the organization that I've been kicking up and down the streets in ME1 suddenly becomes this all powerful, near omnipotent and omniscience organization, who can magically bring back the dead.  Ignore the fact that you have been dead for 2 years.  Ignore that Shepard would have burnt up during re-entry of the planet where Normandy was destroyed at.  It suspends my belief to imagine that they can duplicate Normandy in complete secret.  And somehow, people like Joker and Chawas (who knows way better about Cerberus) would happily join them because, apparently they have nothing better to do.  In ME2, the Alliance, the Councils, all their spectres, and all their STGs, and all the other races are utterly blind, deaf and foolish.  Nope, sorry, don't buy that.
[/quote]
Cerberus was always one of, if not the most powerful human organization.  Again this goes back to your personal assumptions based on limited exposure to the story arcs in the first game.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- The "inventory system".  Grade D.  I'm thankful that we don't have to convert junk into omni-gel anymore.  But the inventory / upgrade system leaves a lot to be desired.  I REALLY miss the joy and happiness when I go : "zomg a +5 collosus armor of doom!!!".  Now, you buy a research from the store, grind some minerals, walk up to a terminal and click Research.   As exciting as watching paint dry.  Heck, I don't even feel that the items are mine.  There is no sense of ownership or achievement.  Devs, I think the person who designed this needs to remember that getting improved items should be a joy and fun.  This isn't.
[/quote]
The inventory system is ok in form but the way the used it was a complete 180 turn from the first game.  Is it better?  No.  Is it worse?  No.  solid C here.  It solved some problems with the first but it didn't really improve upon it.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Tali romance.  Grade F.  I love the character Tali.  The fact that you can romance her, and STILL aren't allowed to see her face is quite insulting.  You can only string people along so far before they get upset.  So we can't see her face in ME1 because there is no romance option there, fine I can live with that.  But to deliberately not show her face during the intimacy scene by using bad camera angle is quite unforgiveable.  There are dead Quarians in many places.  Why can't my Renegade Shep walk up to a dead one and pull back the mask to look???  Keeping secrets just for the sake of doing it is getting annoying.
[/quote]
This obsession with Tali is hilarious.  The whole point of Tali is to be the "impossible" option.  So the fact that is impossible shouldn't have come as a suprize.  They spend half of Tali's dialogue in this game explaining that Tali can't be exposed to foreign bacteria or virus...  Why the hell would you tentical porn freaks think she'd somehow jump out her suit and have slimy slug seks with Shepard...

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Miranda.  Grade C-.  I know some people really like her.  But I can't understand how she is 'designed to be perfect' in any way.  I think her face is quite ugly actually.  Her costume, showing buttcrack and all, seems to be the same type of "fan service" that Liara was.
[/quote]
I didn't like Miranda at all.  He character wasn't compelling or believable.  You can hear it in the voice actor's voice too where some of the crap she says just sounds so forced... 
D at best

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Stuck in geometry.  Grade C-.  With such a complex game I can understand if the testers miss some bad spots on the map.  But I even got stuck and somehow ended up standing ON TOP of another party member.  I couldn't move.  He couldn't move.  Need to improve testing in this area.
[/quote]
This was a huge let down for me.  Bioware built its reputation on making sure games don't have these sorts of issues before they launch.  This whole game felt like they dropped it mid production then picked it back up and released it in it's half finished state.

F-  here.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Smoking.  Grade D-.  To Bioware writers, hollywood had by now given up on trying to stick a cigarette on every badguy to make them look badder.  It doesn't make a NPC cool.  It doesn't make him badass.  Kids play this game, and this isn't the right message to send.  There are FAR better and more effective way to make TIM look "t3h pwnz" and "l33t".  Yes, it requires more work and thoughts, but this tired old cliche needs to go.  Get rid of that cigarette, the only thing it shows is a lack of originality on the part of the writer.
[/quote]
It's a tribute to the smoking man from X Files you silly twit.

I give you an F- for not picking up on this.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
THE UGLY
- ME2 universe a giant step BACK from ME1.  Grade F-.  So your Shepard wakes up after been dead for 2 years.  I can imagine the following conversation with Jacob...
Shep : "Hey, so I've been down for 2 years.  In what way has the galaxy improved since then?"
Jacob : "Oh its great you'll love it.  The guns that were so reliable 2 years ago, now won't work unless you have thermal clips.  In the past if your weapon overheats, you just need to wait 5 or 8 seconds for it to cool down.  Now if you are out of clips your weapon becomes useless permanently.  Isn't that cool?"
Shep : "Ummm okay.  How about my ship?  Surely there has been many new advances since I died?"
Jacob : "Oh yeah.  Normandy was able to take you anywhere before, but now it has a fuel tank and you have to go visit the gas pump over and over.  And you can't just scan a planet now, you need to buy these things called probes.  Oh, and don't worry about the gas thing, if you run out of fuel, you are somehow magically teleported back to a system with a Mass Relay where you can buy more.  I don't know why, but thats how the universe works now."
Shep : "Ummm... how about all my awesome Spectre gears?  I had 9 full sets and lots of credits in my bank account.  Can I call the Citadel to send me over some more?"
Jacob : "Oh no you won't need those anymore!  Besides, your bank account has been zeroed for some reason.  But don't worry, you'll get much weaker weapons that you can upgrade from now on, and much filmsier armor that will get you killed MUCH more often than two years ago.  Don't you just love progress?"
[/quote]
Have no choice but to agree.  ME2 feels like an overall step in the wrong direction for the Mass Effect IP.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Ammos.  Grade : F.  If I want to play Duke Nukem and worry about picking up clips and powerups, I'd go reinstall that game.  ME1 was unique in that you deal with weapon overheat instead of ammo.  It was elegant, simple, and the game lore MADE SENSE.  Suddenly you wake up and the universe has changed for the stupider.  At lower level of difficulty ammo isn't an issue, but at higher it is a real pain when you face far more enemies.  The fact that often you can kill 10 guys and only see 1 clip on the ground is downright insulting.  What were those mercs or robots shooting at me with?  Pebbles?  If you are stuck on a hostile planet, I CHALLENGE anyone who would say with a straight face that he/she prefers a ME2 style weapon over ME1.
[/quote]
Also have to agree.  Why is Cerberus returning to old tech when they have enough resources to bring a dude who got spaced and entered an atmosphere back to life...

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- XP Cheat.  Grade : D.  Missions have a flat XP reward.  Recruit someone, you get 1000.  Increase someone's loyalty, you get 750.  Do a N7 mission, you get a lousy 125.  This flat rate allows the devs to mindlessly throw enemies at you and not care about xp, all the while you are spending ammo and risking death.  This leads to lame scenarios where in some missions you are set up with ENDLESS enemies.  The devs will just throw them at you.  You can't save the game during fights, so it drags on and on and on and if you die you have to reload from the beginning.  How would the devs like to have their bosses pay them a flat rate but the amount of work they have to do has no limit?  No, I didn't think so.
[/quote]
This is a toss up for me.  The exp is really the same you just kinda lump it into a mission grade.  This is becoming popular in RPGs because it's easier and protects the intentions of the designer by not allowing players to "farm" experience.  Developers just haven't figured out yet that some players actually like farming exp through combat and given the choice between the two I would probably do both.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Game launch day fiasco.  Grade F.  Those who didn't try to install the game the first 9 hours or so since its release probably don't know the hell that some of us went through that first day.  Repeated and numerous crashing of the social network.  Failure to connect to Cerberus Network.  Problem with redeeming the codes.  HORRIBLE documentations and not enough clear communication during that first day.  I know most people would have happily forgotten about this by now.  But I have not.  Essentially the message Bioware sent to me was : Do Not Pre-Order.  When I paid $60+ for a product and then waste 4+ hours trying to get it to work, you are essentially trading your company's reputation and future profits away.  And yes, I WILL remember.
[/quote]
I got my gameat midnight and was connected just fine.  The only thing I didn't get first off was Zaeeed but they patched him in the following day so I noticed nothing with the launch.  Although I got the 360 version and your experience may have to do with the PC version.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Planet scanning.  Grade D-.   I feel sorry for this horse that has been beaten so many times, but the designer(s) just didn't think.  A rpg is supposed to be fun.  If I want to do repeatitious and tedious things, I'd go buy a korean or chinese MMO and grind myself to sleep every night.  WHY do I have to hold down the right mouse button to scan?  Your customers not getting enough carpal tunnel?  Why isn't a planet automatically scanned so a colored map is laid out on its surface indicating where the highest resource patches are so the human can decide whether or not its worth it to send a probe?  A problem that exasperate this issue is Element Zero.  When you need more esso units you can't just run to the next Rich planet and grab a load, because it is so rare you are often forced to hop from places to places searching for small pockets of that stuff just so you can upgrade.
[/quote]
RPGs are built on a model that encourages a fair amount of tedium.  They are successful in part because of mechanics that seem tedious to players that typically enjoy other genre's BUT the planet scanning replaced planet exploration and because of this I have to give it a double infinity negative F - - - - - - - no take backzies because this was the single worst decision any developer making a sequel has ever made.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Probes/Fuel.  Grade F.  Please tell us which developer was responsible for the concept of fuel.  I would like to ask him in what way does having fuel ADD to the game.  It is a minor money sink at best.  Now if each inhabited system has a fuel depot, that would make more sense.  But to have only one depot in each star cluster (and sometimes not even one) is like having only one gas station in the entire city.  So instead of just moving from A to B to C to D, you go from A to B, then back to A to refuel, then to C, then back to A to refuel again, etc. etc.   And which genius thought that forcing you to buy probes was a good idea?  Exactly how does launching a probe at a planet magically teleport all the resources from the ground up to Normandy?  Why force us to deal with these MEANINGLESS issues?  Whats next?  Forcing Commander Shepard to repeatedly buy food and water for the crew to consume?  Please remember that a game is supposed to be "fun".  And tedious fun.
[/quote]
Yeah this was pretty stupid.  There was never a point where you needed all your fuel though.  Your explanation here doesn't make much sense.  Once you upgrade the fuel capasity you can just go to each different system and probe then return to fill yer tanks.

The main issue for me was there are no hidden stars or clusters to find that would warrent a limit on fuel.  And the probe thing just seemed like a way to be annoying.  Why are we buying probes?  To annoy you.

[quote]sleepy__head wrote...
- Documentation and numbers.  Grade F.  So you develop several guns.  BUT WHICH IS BETTER?  Why can't the tech experts on my ship tell me how much damage my guns do, their effective range, their area of effect and their rates of fire?
  Why do players have to go outside the game to some website to obtain the information that SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE GAME?  In ME1 these numbers were clearly listed.  The lack of such a display in ME2 is another
 giant step back from the first game.  These information should be a no brainer in an rpg and yet it is not there.  EXACTLY WHAT DOES MY IMPROVED MINERAL SCANNER DO?  I spent a lot of resources and can't even tell the difference.
 [/quote]

Again I have to agree with you.  The game just didn't tell you what you needed to know in some cases.


Overall ME2 is a good game.  If it was the original title and not a sequel I would have to give it much higher scores, but because ME1 was such a powerful gaming experience and the developers had to know from the begining of development that they needed to surpass the previous title or it would be poorly recieved, I have to give ME2 a:

C+ overall

It's a great game but it just can't compare to the original.

[SpideyKnight]

Want to make the other stand? Sit in the citadel and never leave it. That is what would happen if you didn't work with Cerberus. You would be drowning in so much red tape their wouldn't be any Human colonies left in the Terminus system. If that's the game you want, you can have it. The Zakera Ward says "Hi!". Enjoy yourself.

[AZKanaka]

sleepy__head wrote...

AZKanaka wrote...

I'll try to deconstruct some of your most vehement arguments that have started to grate on me:

I stopped right there and didn't even bother reading the rest of your post.  If someone's opinion on a public forum about a computer game can actually grate on you, then you are taking forum discussions a bit more seriously than you should.  The fact that you perceived my OP as "vehement' hints to me that perhaps you need to accept that this wasn't a hate post, specially considering that in the first line I gave the game an overall score of A-.  You don't have to agree with me.  I don't agree with some of the feedback but thats just the way of life.  Some stated their disagreement politely and that was that, I don't have a need for them to see things my way.  There is no reason for you to take a game discussion personally.  If this "grates on you", how about click "Back", then go play or read something else.

Did I perceive your OP as vehement? No. Only your refusal to listen to the many arguments against your logic, both from personal logical conclusions as well as in-game lore. But congratulations on the attempted ad hominem. It warms me inside to see that you cannot attack my argument, and must therefore attack me. (b^^)b

Modifié par AZKanaka, 02 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[sleepy__head]

No funding, no logistics, no ship, and no crew.  You cannot do anything without someone funding your mission.  Absolutely nothing. 

Oh really?  I distinctly remember spending 40+ hours after I have stolen the Normandy in ME1, visiting planets after planets, doing things at my leisure, getting rewarded for missions, rescuing people, fighting off bad guys, before finally saving the galaxy without the support of alliance, cerberus, council or anyone else. 

[sleepy__head]

Did I perceive your OP as vehement? No. Only your refusal to listen to the many arguments against your logic, both from personal logical conclusions as well as in-game lore. But congratulations on the attempted ad hominem. It warms me inside to see that you cannot attack my argument, and must therefore attack me. (b^^)b

Nice attempt at back tracking.  You were the one who used the word vehement.  And you were NOT referring to my refusal to listen because you specifically said, and I quote, "...deconstruct some of your most vehement argument..."  Either say what you mean or don't say it.  And if you believe that someone is vehement for not agreeing with you, then you really don't belong in a public forum.  I stated in my beginning that I posted my message as feedback for the developers.  They can consider it or ignore it, its up to them.  I'm not here for you try to fit me into the mold of how you view the game, nor am I looking for your approval no matter how much you seem to want that.  You don't have to agree with me or anyone else posting views different than your own, and the fact that you admitted that some of the stuff grated on you tells me that you are taking this whole forum debate thing way too personally.  And attack you?  You must have missed the very first sentence of my reply to you.  I don't bother debating issues with people who admit that my post is 'vehement' and that it 'grates' on you, because that declaration shows You Have Already Made Up Your Mind.   But nice try at attempting to derail.  Go ahead and feel however you feel about the game.  Make your own thread giving the developers your view if you wish.  But if you go around taking things personally whenever folks expressed views that you don't like, then you have far more problems than is within this forum's purview.  Either way, there is nothing for you here unless you wish to continue discussing the person as you tried to accuse me of even though you were the one who used inflammatory words such as vehement or grating.

[ZennExile]

He has a point sleepy some of your logic has holes in it and you "seem" to be unable to accept that. The proof is in your need to respond to anything that appears to be an attack with comments like "this is not for you" and "you are welcome to your own opinions, BUT" these things are basically a challenge on your part to dare to respond.



It's pretty easy to paint you as a pompus ass based on the way you have been posting in responce to critics of your original statements.



Your perspective is limited. Try to remember that you are no more right or wrong than anyone else and you can't bully people online (or attempt to) unless you are smarter than they are. Otherwise you just make yerself look foolish like you have so far.



Your review is bias and many of its points are based on ideals or understanding that is personal to you and can't be quantified. That forces arguement. Take steps to avoid expressing your perspective as reality in the future and you won't have these issues.

[Bigmike1107]

I'm not sure if Bioware reads these forums, and i don't post often. I probably won't bother checking for the response of this post, but here goes.

-Upgrades. I wish i would be able to keep my upgrades from my first playthrough and build on them. Much like in ME1 when you did your second playthrough you were granted access to much more powerful armor and weapons (mostly the Lvl X weapons and armor.)

-Reloading. I understand why Bioware did this. Because the Sniper rifles used in conjunction with Adrenaline is such a POWERFUL combination they had to figure out a way to MAKE players use their other weapons. I can remember in ME1 when the only weapon i used was my AR because it never overheated and was super accurate. The Devs had to figure out a way to provide incentive for using other weapons.

-Inventory. If there is any other way to get credits in ME1 other than doing mission then That is far beyond me. In ME1 if i needed money i'd sell stuff. In ME2 if i need money, and there are no missions left... I'm screwed.

-Experience. So no matter how many enemies i kill I will never get any more exp? So whats the point in me even killing anything? Just run through them with Fortitude on and Adrenaline until i get to the next safest place. If i don't get any reward for the killin then why kill? It kinda took the fun out of the 'Shoot him' option.

-Scanning... enough said i think lol.

Overall i thoroughly enjoyed this game. I like how all of my past choices resulted in some sort of ramification in this one.

-I enjoyed the flying around part, but disliked the fuel and probes idea ONLY because it is so hard to get money.

-The romance options were good, although i don't understand why people put so much emphasis on them. Are you trying to get off by playing this game? Live vicariously through Shep? Seriously guys come on. That is what porn is for. Did anybody miss the big fiasco that happened with ME1? The news issue titled 'Se' Xbox? Where they unsuccessfully tried to get ME1 banned because the lady heard (however misinformed she may have been) that it had a porn flick in it? Bioware was just trying to avoid any issues. Get off somewhere else.

The graphics rocked, the combat was intense (even though i dislike reloading), the character interaction was superb.

While i WILL not replay this game because i don't feel like having to deal with scanning, doing missions for money, and reacquiring ALL of my upgrades with no new armor as incentive. This game has gotten me more hyped up for ME3 than ME1 had me over ME2... if that made sense.

Cheers to all. GREAT job. I love the game.

About the smoking part. If they are too young, and prone to being influenced by this game... maybe their parents should have considered NOT letting them p[lay seeing how the game is marked as 'M' by ESRB.

Modifié par Bigmike1107, 03 février 2010 - 06:01 .

[TeaCokeProphet]

There is no such thing as true choice in video games. Or in any other artistic or entertainment medium. You have what you are given by the creators. Slapping a color on an option might change a tiny variable in the game overall, but in the end, the end is still the end that the developers have given you. The fact that you want a TRUE choice of whether or not to work with Cerberus is asking for an ENTIRE new game, complete with different characters and a story. That isn't a tiny variable, it's gamebreaking.

[CmdrFenix83]

sleepy__head wrote...

No funding, no logistics, no ship, and no crew.  You cannot do anything without someone funding your mission.  Absolutely nothing. 

Oh really?  I distinctly remember spending 40+ hours after I have stolen the Normandy in ME1, visiting planets after planets, doing things at my leisure, getting rewarded for missions, rescuing people, fighting off bad guys, before finally saving the galaxy without the support of alliance, cerberus, council or anyone else. 

Yes, but there's no penalty for being a moron in ME1.  When you steal the Normandy, you *know* Saren is on his way to Ilos.  Going to do side-quests at that point should have resulted in mission failure, just like how in ME2, taking your time after the crew is taken results in them being turned into goo.  ME1 was a 'Race Against Time', but they weren't going to penalize you for failing to finish your sidequests before clearing the last planet.  Honestly, all of ME1's sidequests should have been skipped from a story-perspective, you simply did not have time to ride around looking for minerals and insignias.

But okay.  You steal the Normandy.  Jettison Miranda and Jacob(at the very least) out of the airlock.  Remember all of your credtis in-game come from Cerberus or stolen from hacked PDA's/Terminals.  All of that salvage is given to Cerberus, and you get Cerberus Funding after every mission.  You gonna hire yourself out as a Merc for cash?  Because the Council made it very clear they won't give you jack because you're an unstable, insane, prophetic psycopath.  Even the human-run Council wants nothing to do with you.

Now you get no dossiers to recruit, so you need to find people to recruit yourself.  Oh... and you never hear about the derelict Reaper... so no IFF, and no Omega relay.  Oh.. but you didn't know you needed an IFF since Cerberus didn't set up that little trap on you for the Collecter ship and EDI wouldn't be there to pull up that information anyway.  So you take the relay and fly right into a black hole.

Way to go, champ.  You stuck to your guns but ended up costing trillions of lives for your obstinance.