89 réponses à ce sujet

[elmephd1]

RPG is predominately about playing and acting out a role and having a greater focus on the narrative. I know that seems like a duh statement, but an RPG isn't about a game system or rules (since most of that is handled by the computer) or what type of weapon is being used. It's also not about dice rolls, which again were simply there to introduce a random element, one which isn't needed in more "realistic" gameplay. Stats still exist, with an increase based on levels and equipment, but even that isn't required to play a role.

It certainly isn't a third person shooter any more then Oblivion is a hack and slash. The plot is the focus 100% of the time, while the shooting itself is 50% of it. The rest of the time your either exploring towns, talking to your friends and allies or out exploring the galaxy. Not to mention there are more rewards based on roleplay then there are based on combat (since I believe Exp is fixed in dungeons), where consistently playing out a role brings extra rewards.

Hell, Samara's loyalty quest doesn't involve you even firing a shot, that was all about playing out your role.

Platformer is a description of a game mechanic, turn-based is a description of a game mechanic, 1st person shooter is a description of a game mechanic. The RPG isn't and the only reason it's treated as if it is, is because of how gaming evolved on consoles in the early days.

If we were to speak in terms of novels, the game mechanic would be whether the story is written in first person or the third person. It effects how the story is told, but not the stories genre.

[dimstog]

Topics like this have been beaten to death not because of trolls or fanboys or anything, but because the game itself is controversial as to the genre it belongs to.

Some say it's a shooter, or made to look like a shooter to draw in the FPS/TPS genre fans. Well, I've about 20-25 hours of gametime and hardly more than 10% - 20% of it I've spent shooting. Although fun, fluid and quite enganging the longest shooting I've been in (Veteran difficulty) was 2 minutes, hack a console, then 2 minutes more. The rest of the time, I have to mine, listen to the dialog and read codex entries just to get a an idea of what everyone is talking about and what to research.

Some call it an RPG with a heavy shooter side, but as an RPG fan, I find very little incentive in going off the beaten path and visit a planet that none of my team mates or boss isn't sending me to, change my playstyle - or even adapt it to the situation at hand, decide whether to use that gun or the other because it rarely makes a difference and  I don't seem to have any chance to get to know my crew since all their dialog choices - with all the excellent voice overs and decent cinematics - are limited to a ten line backstory and general information about the universe. Their background is interesting but lacking:
Jack: "They did things to me." Period.
Miranda: "My dad is horrible." Period.
Garus: "I am gonna kill him." Period.
Jacob: "My dad left me and turned out to be a horrible man." Period.
Compare their backstories with Lelliana's or even Oghren's from DA:O and you'll understand what I am talking about.

Don't get me wrong, I am having a great time and don't regret a eurocent or a minute I've spent on it, but I am halfway through the game and the reason I am still playing it is just to find out what happens in the end. Maybe I'll play it once more after a couple of months when I get over the pointless and mindnumbing task of scanning/mining.

It is without doubt a great game. Excellent production, over the top casting for the voice overs, decent cinematics and cutscenes, excellent and consistent storyline, strong plot. Yes, it has flaws but they are minor. But although it implements shooting rayguns better than any other game and although it has some pretty funny paragon/renegade dialog options and cinematics, it is not an excellent RPG nor an excellent shooter. It is a genre  on its own and worth its money. Aside from production value and streamlining it is nothing more than ME1 all over again - you could call it an expansion/upgrade of ME1 if not for the size of it. That's what I expected and that's what I got, and I am happy about it. I hope they don't change the formula for ME3 either.

[tmacairjordan87]

I only come to these forums like once a day and even I'm sick and tired of hearing all these whiners. What's hilarious is they act like ME1 was this super deep and nerdy rpg comparable to baldur's gate or something.



This game is better for stripping away some of the things it did, like the inventory system and the dice rolling/stat based combat.

[elmephd1]

dimstog wrote...
Compare their backstories with Lelliana's or even Oghren's from DA:O and you'll understand what I am talking about.

Not really, I found every single character in Dragon Age to be uninteresting and unpersonable. I ended up not caring what happened to a single one of them. Dragon Age's biggest plus was it's gameplay and production levels and that's it.

Mass Effect 2's characters however absolutely ooze personality.

[dj1917]

I've been reading this stuff for days now and said nothing, but this is getting ridiculous. ME2 is a great game, don't get me wrong. A 9/10. A good shooter with depth. But it's not an RPG, which is what ME2 SHOULD be. Doesn't mean it's crap, doesn't mean I don't like shooters (shock horror, most gamers don't stick to one genre), it just reminds me of when I was a big music fan and I would buy some band's first album on an indie label and it was brilliant, and then a major record would get hold of them and the second album would be over-polished mass-market pop that while it was very competent and good for what it was, was still not what it should have been. And then they get new fans who tell you that the first album was crap. If you see what I mean. So, to recap, ME2 is a bit like the Manic Street Preachers, or something.

[DarthCaine]

dimstog wrote...
Compare their backstories with Lelliana's or even Oghren's from DA:O and you'll understand what I am talking about.

I thought the DAO characters were great, but I prefer ME2's mostly 'cos of the presentation (it's more emotional)

[Mezinger]

Garvare wrote...

RPG = Role Playing Game = Playing in a Role = Playing as Shepard (good or evil, male or female, whatever you like) = ME2

RPG != Looting or Inventory. Those things do have nothing to do with playing a role.

ME2 is awsome.

This is just a superficial argument that's like saying the only thing First Person Shooters need to have is a Shooting from the First Person Perspective. (Right 'cause that's all that's in the title and it makes it sound clever?) Well we know that this isn't the case... even Wolfenstein 3D which birthed the genre had a story... and loot actually!

[Akimb0]

You get to speak to NPCs and make some pretty black and white choices.. That's about as RPG as ME2 gets.

[Akimb0]

Fail Social Site forums double posting

Modifié par Akimb0, 02 février 2010 - 03:38 .

[_KTA_]

Mezinger wrote...

Garvare wrote...

RPG = Role Playing Game = Playing in a Role = Playing as Shepard (good or evil, male or female, whatever you like) = ME2

RPG != Looting or Inventory. Those things do have nothing to do with playing a role.

ME2 is awsome.

This is just a superficial argument that's like saying the only thing First Person Shooters need to have is a Shooting from the First Person Perspective. (Right 'cause that's all that's in the title and it makes it sound clever?) Well we know that this isn't the case... even Wolfenstein 3D which birthed the genre had a story... and loot actually!

Yes so Borderlands is the RPG of the generation....

[pilot2fly]

[Devos]

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

*Face palm*

It's a newbie, I find the reaction towards a newbie on this forum rather distasteful. Take your trolling comments elsewhere, bloody hell. This forum is to express opinions about ME2, not to **** and moan about user postings. Don't like the opinion, gtfo of the thread.

Aye. Also I find it ironinc how people seem to think that the fact different people keep posting the same topic makes the topic stupid or wrong.

[JamesMoriarty123]

There is more to an RPG than an inventory screen. Grow up.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Mezinger wrote...

This is just a superficial argument that's like saying the only thing First Person Shooters need to have is a Shooting from the First Person Perspective. (Right 'cause that's all that's in the title and it makes it sound clever?) Well we know that this isn't the case... even Wolfenstein 3D which birthed the genre had a story... and loot actually!

Wolfenstein didn't "birth" anything. Catacomb Abyss was out Wolf3D and before Abyss there was Corporation.
Get your facts straight.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 02 février 2010 - 04:06 .

[Akimb0]

tmacairjordan87 wrote...

I only come to these forums like once a day and even I'm sick and tired of hearing all these whiners. What's hilarious is they act like ME1 was this super deep and nerdy rpg comparable to baldur's gate or something.

This game is better for stripping away some of the things it did, like the inventory system and the dice rolling/stat based combat.

What? There were no stats/dice rolling systems in ME1. Did you even play ME1?

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

This
is just a superficial argument that's like saying the only thing First
Person Shooters need to have is a Shooting from the First Person
Perspective. (Right 'cause that's all that's in the title and it makes
it sound clever?) Well we know that this isn't the case... even
Wolfenstein 3D which birthed the genre had a story... and loot actually!

Wolfenstein didn't "birth" anything. Catacomb Abyss was out Wolf3D and before Abyss there was Corporation.
Get your facts straight.

1st in a genre is not the same as "birthing" (or starting) a genre.

Modifié par Akimb0, 02 février 2010 - 04:09 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

dimstog wrote...

Topics like this have been beaten to death not because of trolls or fanboys or anything, but because the game itself is controversial as to the genre it belongs to.

Some say it's a shooter, or made to look like a shooter to draw in the FPS/TPS genre fans. Well, I've about 20-25 hours of gametime and hardly more than 10% - 20% of it I've spent shooting. Although fun, fluid and quite enganging the longest shooting I've been in (Veteran difficulty) was 2 minutes, hack a console, then 2 minutes more. The rest of the time, I have to mine, listen to the dialog and read codex entries just to get a an idea of what everyone is talking about and what to research.

Some call it an RPG with a heavy shooter side, but as an RPG fan, I find very little incentive in going off the beaten path and visit a planet that none of my team mates or boss isn't sending me to, change my playstyle - or even adapt it to the situation at hand, decide whether to use that gun or the other because it rarely makes a difference and  I don't seem to have any chance to get to know my crew since all their dialog choices - with all the excellent voice overs and decent cinematics - are limited to a ten line backstory and general information about the universe. Their background is interesting but lacking:
Jack: "They did things to me." Period.
Miranda: "My dad is horrible." Period.
Garus: "I am gonna kill him." Period.
Jacob: "My dad left me and turned out to be a horrible man." Period.
Compare their backstories with Lelliana's or even Oghren's from DA:O and you'll understand what I am talking about.

Don't get me wrong, I am having a great time and don't regret a eurocent or a minute I've spent on it, but I am halfway through the game and the reason I am still playing it is just to find out what happens in the end. Maybe I'll play it once more after a couple of months when I get over the pointless and mindnumbing task of scanning/mining.

It is without doubt a great game. Excellent production, over the top casting for the voice overs, decent cinematics and cutscenes, excellent and consistent storyline, strong plot. Yes, it has flaws but they are minor. But although it implements shooting rayguns better than any other game and although it has some pretty funny paragon/renegade dialog options and cinematics, it is not an excellent RPG nor an excellent shooter. It is a genre  on its own and worth its money. Aside from production value and streamlining it is nothing more than ME1 all over again - you could call it an expansion/upgrade of ME1 if not for the size of it. That's what I expected and that's what I got, and I am happy about it. I hope they don't change the formula for ME3 either.

Leiliana - I used be a spy, now im on the run. Period.
Oghren - My wife went insane. Period.

Hinging your arguement on using short sentences to sum up what is actually quite a fleshed out backstory makes you look a fool. ******.

Also, although I enjoyed Dragon Age, some of the voice acting is just so bad, so very, very bad.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 02 février 2010 - 04:13 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

Akimb0 wrote...

tmacairjordan87 wrote...

I only come to these forums like once a day and even I'm sick and tired of hearing all these whiners. What's hilarious is they act like ME1 was this super deep and nerdy rpg comparable to baldur's gate or something.

This game is better for stripping away some of the things it did, like the inventory system and the dice rolling/stat based combat.

What? There were no stats/dice rolling systems in ME1. Did you even play ME1?

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

This
is just a superficial argument that's like saying the only thing First
Person Shooters need to have is a Shooting from the First Person
Perspective. (Right 'cause that's all that's in the title and it makes
it sound clever?) Well we know that this isn't the case... even
Wolfenstein 3D which birthed the genre had a story... and loot actually!

Wolfenstein didn't "birth" anything. Catacomb Abyss was out Wolf3D and before Abyss there was Corporation.
Get your facts straight.

1st in a genre is not the same as "birthing" (or starting) a genre.

Abyss was made by the same people who made Wolf so...again, that was more of a birthing step for them than Wolf.

[spock06]

exploration also sucked in ME1: you drove a vehicle with terrible controls across randomly generated landscapes that were identical except in texturing. the skills were lame. you spent your points on like +1.2% damage increase with assault rifles. now they've simply made so when you add skills it actually means something

[dimstog]

elmephd1 wrote...

Not really, I found every single character in Dragon Age to be uninteresting and unpersonable. I ended up not caring what happened to a single one of them. Dragon Age's biggest plus was it's gameplay and production levels and that's it.

Mass Effect 2's characters however absolutely ooze personality.

I am not disagreeing, it's a matter of choice or taste who you like.

However, it is a matter of fact, that Morrigan or Lelliana or any character in DA:O carried with them at least a couple of personal stories as well as lore about the world and you could talk to them for at least 20 minutes realtime. I didn't do it for all of them , but the possibility was there - and it showed. And through those stories and dialog you get to know not only the character but also the whole world-setting.

[Braddock81087]

 I'm sick and tired of threads like these.

Where in any game type of ROLE PLAYING GAME do you see Role Playing, Inventory Using, Merchant Selling, Game?

Why does an RPG have to have an inventory?  A few of the FF games only have an inventory for the Weapons you can get.  FF isn't an RPG now either?

[dimstog]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Leiliana - I used be a spy, now im on the run. Period.
Oghren - My wife went insane. Period.

Hinging your arguement on using short sentences to sum up what is actually quite a fleshed out backstory makes you look a fool. ******.

Also, although I enjoyed Dragon Age, some of the voice acting is just so bad, so very, very bad.

I did manage though, in all that wall of text of mine, NOT to insult you or anyone personaly, didn't I ? Try writing a couple of sentences without doing it as well if you have something to say, it's good for the soul.

[dimstog]

Braddock81087 wrote...

 I'm sick and tired of threads like these.

Where in any game type of ROLE PLAYING GAME do you see Role Playing, Inventory Using, Merchant Selling, Game?

Why does an RPG have to have an inventory?  A few of the FF games only have an inventory for the Weapons you can get.  FF isn't an RPG now either?

Inventory is a side-effect of a well fleshed out world - like the real world. For example, we don't have 3 makes of cars, we have hundreds of brands and makes, that do exactly the same thing each. The redundance and plurality of  items and inventory reflects that. The redundance however of wall safes and datapads everywhere to make up for the lost income from selling the "useless" pistols that are no longer there, does not.

I was relieved there was no inventory and trillions of pistols in ME2 like in ME1 because in ME1 both, (items and inventory interface) were badly designed. For the type of game - whatever that is - ME2 is, the current system is great.

Modifié par dimstog, 02 février 2010 - 05:26 .

[tmacairjordan87]

Akimb0 wrote...

tmacairjordan87 wrote...

I only come to these forums like once a day and even I'm sick and tired of hearing all these whiners. What's hilarious is they act like ME1 was this super deep and nerdy rpg comparable to baldur's gate or something.

This game is better for stripping away some of the things it did, like the inventory system and the dice rolling/stat based combat.

What? There were no stats/dice rolling systems in ME1. Did you even play ME1?

Yes I did, and yes there was.  You had to level up, say, Assault Rifle skill to become more accurate with it otherwise in the beginning you spray bullets all over the place.  In 2, you point at something, you hit it.

[imemoria]

T1l wrote...

ANY game is a Role Playing Game. You could call Halo a Role Playing Game becasue you're playing the "role" of Master Chief - but that does not mean Halo is a god damn Role Playing Game. For ****s sake, a Role Playing Game is a genre based on core RPG elements which, lets be honest, have been trimmed in Mass Effect. It doesn't make it any less fun, it doesn't make it any less of a great game, but yeah, it does make it less of an RPG than say, Dragon Age.

If people were walking in to Mass Effect expecting Dragon Age they've only got themselves to blame.

this.

[n4d4n]

DarthCaine wrote...

Ah, and I see you registered today just to troll and don't have the game registered
And ME2 has all of the things you said except an inventory

What are you on about? He said he was new and he stated his valid opinion of the game. Let me just make something clear to everyone whose sick of these kind of threads. We bought and played Mass Effect 1! Therefore we have the right to expect a sequal is going to be carried over similarly to its predecessor. Please don't come and say ME2 has all the things the OP mentioned. They've been so dumbed down that they barely need to even be there.

Modifié par n4d4n, 02 février 2010 - 07:39 .