129 réponses à ce sujet

[patriot3]

I guess if you work hard enough, you can be critical of virtually anything.  I am quite sure somebody thought the Sistine Chapel was Michelango's worst effort ever. 

I've played most of the big-titled video games (and probably hundreds of smaller titles as well) on the PC since Doom came out in 19?? and, since the only way to rate a game is to COMPARE it to other titles which have gone before, I have to respectfully disagree with the original poster.  Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 are truly GREAT games with more depth, originality, and quality content than most games.  Sure, there's always something to criticize.   Of course the game doesn't have a perfect corner on the graphics market, or the strategy market, or character customization market, or the "open world, open-ended" market.  But what it does, it does MASTERFULLY.  It tells a great story in an action setting with a tactical element, with a high level of emersive feel and excellent character development.  The voice acting and plot are truly outstanding.   

Most importantly, it is FUN!  That is the point.  To each his own, for sure.  But I am having a blast playing it and that is the bottom line on whether a game is successful.  In that sense, this might quite possibly be the most successful game I have played in YEARS.  I am easily bored because I have played a LOT of games.  And I am riveted by this game.  

[JamesAutumn]

The naysayers would show themselves eventually and in the most pathetic way

[Suron]

woah_geez wrote...

he seems like a troll tbh

Seems like he is one of the people from this forum crying about me2 not being an rpg who got a website to host his article, except there are a lot more stupid opinions on there that I havent read yet.

yah because anyone that says something negative about the game, or just something you (not just you, but "you" as in people in general) agree with...they're a troll right?  amirite?

face it...ME2 took a dumbed down consolized path making it more akin to Gears of War with dialogue options then it is akin to ME1 save the same setting.  They practically turned it into Mass Effect: Adventures..an offshoot of the Mass Effect Role Playing Game.

[Suron]

Bigeyez wrote...

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

About time a critic got off their ass and decided to start telling it for what it is.

Yes because obviously EA bought off the 50 something other review websites/magazines/blogs that gave the game good scores right?

Peoples opinions don't always match up with yours. Take off your tinfoil hat and join the real world please.

take your own advice but don't forget your blinders.

ME2 is flawed..dumbed down...even if you PREFER the changes..you CANNOT DENY that it was dumbed the hell down.

if you do..sorry this is one time an opinion can be wrong...and you are wrong.

[Romeriez Galenar]

I agree with a lot of the points he makes. Calling ME2 a "Complete Failure" however is more than a bit extreme and doesn't fit with the tone of the actual article. Honestly, even though Dragon Age was a pretty good game it didn't feel like it had the Bioware level of polish on it and Mass Effect doesn't either.



I think the main gist that he was trying to say was for Bioware not to rest on their laurels. He's actually complimenting Bioware a lot by saying that the games Bioware creates set the bar for the entire industry which is something I agreed with completely until recently.



I think Bioware is stuck in a rut, or they're afraid to push the envelope further. The Characters from one game resemble the characters from the next and the plot lines seem re-used to death. The writing is still really good, and this is always where Bioware shines but they need to find a new angle.



ME2 is a good game, but I think all but the most rabid fanboy/fangirl would agree that there are things that could have been done better. Since they're likely gearing up for ME3 soon they may be looking for reviews and opinions like the one linked in the OP's post. I'd hope they at least consider well written critique because as always I expect the next game from Bioware to amaze me and blow me away. That's Bioware's legacy and it's a hard one to live up to even for them sometimes.

[Bio Addict]

This article is pathetically transparent.  So the haters have realized that the gaming community, both players and critics, is almost universally behind ME2 and they don't have a leg to stand on so this troll tries, and fails, to disguise the same old BS complaints in the form of a legetimate review. 

As I've said before I've got nothing against descenting opinion but I would've be half as annoyed at the complainers if all their posts were not so damn condescending. 

[Matt VT Schlo]

That thread at n4g is a totally attention whoring grab, trying to get under fanboy skins. I pitty the author of that article. He/She/it is pathetic

[Skemte]

.. How do we know they speak english to begin with? Perhapes Shepard uses a device that instantly translates to our language.. Seems perfectly feasible to me if technology has been developed for faster then light travel, and the ability to resist gravity nearly completely through the mass effect fields..

[Bigeyez]

Suron wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

About time a critic got off their ass and decided to start telling it for what it is.

Yes because obviously EA bought off the 50 something other review websites/magazines/blogs that gave the game good scores right?

Peoples opinions don't always match up with yours. Take off your tinfoil hat and join the real world please.

take your own advice but don't forget your blinders.

ME2 is flawed..dumbed down...even if you PREFER the changes..you CANNOT DENY that it was dumbed the hell down.

if you do..sorry this is one time an opinion can be wrong...and you are wrong.

/facepalm

People like you are why even coming into these topics annoys me now.
Is it really that hard to understand that not everyone thinks like you do or shares your opinion on things? Are you REALLY that naive that you assume your opinions to be absolute facts and that anyone who disagrees is wrong? God I feel so sorry for your co-workers if you have a job/when you get a job.

[Akimb0]

Jaklar wrote...

This article is causing all hell to break loose at N4G; worth a read:

With an average score of 96 on Metacritic, one would be justified in
believing Mass Effect 2 has little room for improvement. An
overwhelming majority of so-called game critics have weighed-in,
predictably showering Bioware’s latest RPG with roses and garlands.
Bioware is one of a select number of game companies that receives a
+3 modifier in review scores. So take an average game that would
normally receive a 7, add Bioware’s name to the box, and oila! Instant
10. While this may be great for Bioware’s bottom-line, it’s actually a
grave disservice to the company and gamers, not to mention a glowing
example of everything that is wrong in game journalism; criticism
specifically.
Having played and finished Mass Effect 2, I can safely say, without
reservation or hesitation, that Bioware’s latest RPG is a complete
mess, from top-to-bottom and not a product worthy of Bioware’s heritage.

More at: The Many Failures of Mass Effect 2

You know how the best cola is made by CocaCola? Well ME2 feels like the supermarkets own brand cola, instead of the top grade product it should have been. I totally agree with the "+3 Bioware" thing. ME2 as I feel the need to keep saying isn't a bad game (it's still cola right?) it's just nothing like as good as all the hype suggests.

(Simple reply: I agree with what you say.)

Bigeyez wrote...

Suron wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

About time a critic got off their ass and decided to start telling it for what it is.

Yes because obviously EA bought off the 50 something other review websites/magazines/blogs that gave the game good scores right?

Peoples opinions don't always match up with yours. Take off your tinfoil hat and join the real world please.

take your own advice but don't forget your blinders.

ME2 is flawed..dumbed down...even if you PREFER the changes..you CANNOT DENY that it was dumbed the hell down.

if you do..sorry this is one time an opinion can be wrong...and you are wrong.

/facepalm

People like you are why even coming into these topics annoys me now.
Is
it really that hard to understand that not everyone thinks like you do
or shares your opinion on things? Are you REALLY that naive that you
assume your opinions to be absolute facts and that anyone who disagrees
is wrong? God I feel so sorry for your co-workers if you have a
job/when you get a job.

Your opinion on his opinion doesn't change the fact that ME2 is dumbed down.

Modifié par Akimb0, 02 février 2010 - 05:33 .

[WhiskeyKnight]

Sometimes I hope that the developers who obviously poured their heart and souls into ME2 don't read the internet. If they do, here's a message: You've made one of the greatest games of all time. Congratulations. Maybe I'll do a counter article called The Many Successes of Mass Effect 2...

[halfnormal1]

The problem is that we have a great game but that doesnt mean it is above some criticism, that is what helps it improve in each incarnation. Then we get reviewers who seem incapable to critize any aspect of what they consider a great game. So we get the flipside, individuals who call the game a 'complete mess' which it clearly is not.

Looking at the posts here it seems there is a consensus (are we geth?) about which of his points have some validity. My own main dissapointment would be the language thing, afterall Bioware did this well in KOTOR and it definately improves the immersiveness.

Modifié par halfnormal1, 02 février 2010 - 05:33 .

[Skemte]

Suron wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

About time a critic got off their ass and decided to start telling it for what it is.

Yes because obviously EA bought off the 50 something other review websites/magazines/blogs that gave the game good scores right?

Peoples opinions don't always match up with yours. Take off your tinfoil hat and join the real world please.

take your own advice but don't forget your blinders.

ME2 is flawed..dumbed down...even if you PREFER the changes..you CANNOT DENY that it was dumbed the hell down.

if you do..sorry this is one time an opinion can be wrong...and you are wrong.

...  Not from the first it certainly is not..  I can't even qualify the item system of the first as such, its a bunch of generic names with numbers after it, no unique stats outside of that..  Furthermore this game is harder, while the other there were clear abilities class that could drive through the game easilly..  And finally the actual character development system in the first was mediocre at best, it was alright..  But cutting the abilities down didn't make much difference seeing as the vast majority of skills you leveled up were passive in nature..  I do wish they added a dozen different guns and armor for each slot..  Not neccesarly a progression of one better or the other..  It would be that in the beginning, but then it would branch out to more unique varients that may have special attributes.. Outside of that I really can't complain much about the game, its significantly better imo over the first one.

[LoweGear]

Still, an "objective" review looks at both the positive AND negative aspects of the game, and unfortunately the review focuses more on the negatives than the positives. Maybe the title is truthful for being that, and I actually agree with some assessments, like the scanning, the interface and the combat. However, things like all-english speaking aliens, logbooks, or merchants being listed as "failures" make the entire article look more like nit-picking than an actual review.



It would've been fine had this been a mere opinion of one man on the game. However, by claiming to be an objective article detailing certain aspects of the game as fact, the article twists fact from fiction and paints the impression that Mass Effect 2 is a complete failure of a game. Not only is the actual description itself a gross exaggeration, but due to the nature of the article people will actually be SWAYED by it into thinking less of the game. It makes the readers... sheep to the will of the blogster instead of letting the players check out how the game plays and then judge by themselves. I know people want to be informed of something instead of blindly going in to make a decision into buying a game, but that's why it's even more important for blogs such as these to provide information that will best benefit the readers in making decisions - for themselves - by providing a neutral, objective stance. If people who played the game hate it, that's their loss, but people thinking it's not worth playing because they heard other people say that it's bad is a tragedy indeed.

[Akimb0]

WhiskeyKnight wrote...

Sometimes I hope that the developers who obviously poured their heart and souls into ME2 don't read the internet. If they do, here's a message: You've made one of the greatest games of all time. Congratulations. Maybe I'll do a counter article called The Many Successes of Mass Effect 2...

They poured their heart and soul into ME1 as well right? Yet when it comes to ME2 they listened to all the complaints about ME1 and ended up making a worse game because of it. Fanboys here fly off the handle too fast at any complaint thread while they rarely actually produce a counter-arguement to the points presented against ME2.

[St Padraig]

The article does raise many valid points. Although, it is not a 'complete mess', nor the abomination the article suggests.

Some good ideas, though, which would contribute to a much higher quality output.

[Skemte]

Akimb0 wrote...

Jaklar wrote...

This article is causing all hell to break loose at N4G; worth a read:

With an average score of 96 on Metacritic, one would be justified in
believing Mass Effect 2 has little room for improvement. An
overwhelming majority of so-called game critics have weighed-in,
predictably showering Bioware’s latest RPG with roses and garlands.
Bioware is one of a select number of game companies that receives a
+3 modifier in review scores. So take an average game that would
normally receive a 7, add Bioware’s name to the box, and oila! Instant
10. While this may be great for Bioware’s bottom-line, it’s actually a
grave disservice to the company and gamers, not to mention a glowing
example of everything that is wrong in game journalism; criticism
specifically.
Having played and finished Mass Effect 2, I can safely say, without
reservation or hesitation, that Bioware’s latest RPG is a complete
mess, from top-to-bottom and not a product worthy of Bioware’s heritage.

More at: The Many Failures of Mass Effect 2

You know how the best cola is made by CocaCola? Well ME2 feels like the supermarkets own brand cola, instead of the top grade product it should have been. I totally agree with the "+3 Bioware" thing. ME2 as I feel the need to keep saying isn't a bad game (it's still cola right?) it's just nothing like as good as all the hype suggests.

(Simple reply: I agree with what you say.)

Bigeyez wrote...

Suron wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

About time a critic got off their ass and decided to start telling it for what it is.

Yes because obviously EA bought off the 50 something other review websites/magazines/blogs that gave the game good scores right?

Peoples opinions don't always match up with yours. Take off your tinfoil hat and join the real world please.

take your own advice but don't forget your blinders.

ME2 is flawed..dumbed down...even if you PREFER the changes..you CANNOT DENY that it was dumbed the hell down.

if you do..sorry this is one time an opinion can be wrong...and you are wrong.

/facepalm

People like you are why even coming into these topics annoys me now.
Is
it really that hard to understand that not everyone thinks like you do
or shares your opinion on things? Are you REALLY that naive that you
assume your opinions to be absolute facts and that anyone who disagrees
is wrong? God I feel so sorry for your co-workers if you have a
job/when you get a job.

Your opinion on his opinion doesn't change the fact that ME2 is dumbed down.

 That is completely opinion, there is no fact on it.. I argue that the things cut out in the game such as the leveling system was completely pointless in the first one..  Where abunch of the stats you chose were just a passive increase of a few %..  And the item system in the first one was quite useless, Oh boy I got a banshee 3, that beats my Banshee 2!  There is no unique quality to it, even the elite weapons the spectre weapons were generic as well..   I will criticize them that they should have added more items and maybe given stats to the weapons.. But outside of that I really can't fault them on the leveling system compared to the first..  Now of course I feel it could be improved in a multitude of ways of adding new stuff, but to suggest that its some how fact is ridiculous.. This is opinion, just like my view is an opinion..

[Akimb0]

LoweGear wrote...


It would've been fine had this been a mere opinion of one man on the game. However, by claiming to be an objective article detailing certain aspects of the game as fact, the article twists fact from fiction and paints the impression that Mass Effect 2 is a complete failure of a game. Not only is the actual description itself a gross exaggeration, but due to the nature of the article people will actually be SWAYED by it into thinking less of the game. It makes the readers... sheep to the will of the blogster instead of letting the players check out how the game plays and then judge by themselves.

And yet I feel that the opposite is true concerning reviews in magazines and online. They highly overrated the game and persuaded the masses to buy it simply based on a bias review saying the game is great despite its many obvious flaws. PCGamer is a great example of how modern journalism/reviewing is beginning to praise an unworthy game as if they'd been payed to overlook it's failings. (Specific example: Empire: Total War.)

 That is completely opinion, there is no fact on it..
I argue that the things cut out in the game such as the leveling system
was completely pointless in the first one..  Where abunch of the stats
you chose were just a passive increase of a few %..  And the item
system in the first one was quite useless, Oh boy I got a banshee 3,
that beats my Banshee 2!  There is no unique quality to it, even the
elite weapons the spectre weapons were generic as well..   I will
criticize them that they should have added more items and maybe given
stats to the weapons.. But outside of that I really can't fault them on
the leveling system compared to the first..  Now of course I feel it
could be improved in a multitude of ways of adding new stuff, but to
suggest that its some how fact is ridiculous.. This is opinion, just
like my view is an opinion..

It's quite clearly fact that the game was dumbed down. "Streamlined" is a business word to make 'Average Joe' feel like he's not being ripped off.

The levelling system is almost the same in ME2 compared to ME1. The only difference being you don't get XP for kills, only completing "quests" and that when you do level up you have much less choice as to how you progress your character. I do agree that the points "inbetween skills" in ME1 could have been done away with, but did we really need to lose at least 2 skills for each character in the process? I don't think so.

Your weapon example adapted for ME2: "Oh boy, I got an upgraded pistol! there's nothing to tell me why it's really better than the first one and it's the only extra pistol I'll get in the entire game. However choice makes my Attention Deficit order kick in so it's okay that I don't really get one! " - i.e. the new weapons are trash, you don't feel you've earnt them and beyond "I got this one later in the game so it's probably better" there's very little else to tell you about it. There's no feeling that you may actually have to choose between the two.

I don't want to get into the whole "opinion" arguement as it's a catch22. However I will just say, while everyone is entitled to their opinion, it doesn't make them right or change facts. The fact is ME2 is dumbed down. Someone may hold the opinion that it wasn't which is fine, but it doesn't change the fact that it was.

Modifié par Akimb0, 02 février 2010 - 05:53 .

[Bigeyez]

Akimb0 wrote...


Your opinion on his opinion doesn't change the fact that ME2 is dumbed down.

/double facepalm

THATS SUBJECTIVE TO BEGIN WITH. Christ I feel like I'm talking to brick walls here. It is your opinion that the game was dumbed down. I see the changes as removing broken aspects of the game and focusing on the good aspects of the first game, while improving on the combat. We have a difference of opinion. Nothing I say and nothing you say will change either of our opinions so lets just agree to disagree shall we?

Is this really that hard to understand? Let me spell it out for you.

Your opinion /=/ Fact.

Need to see it again?

Your opinon /=/ Fact.

Just to make sure you get the picture.

Your opinion /=/ Fact.

[obie191970]

Suron wrote...

take your own advice but don't forget your blinders.

ME2 is flawed..dumbed down...even if you PREFER the changes..you CANNOT DENY that it was dumbed the hell down.

if you do..sorry this is one time an opinion can be wrong...and you are wrong.

People around here somehow think that ME1 was the greatest RPG EVA! when it had just as many flaws, if not more, than ME2.  I loved ME1 and I love ME2.  But ME1 was light on the RPG front to begin with.  The ME series is all about creating an immersive story that your character has direct influence over and interaction with and both games succeed tremendously with this even though they take different avenues to get there.  I have never been as invested in a character the way I am with my Shepard's from ME1 through ME2.

[Skemte]

Akimb0 wrote...

LoweGear wrote...


It would've been fine had this been a mere opinion of one man on the game. However, by claiming to be an objective article detailing certain aspects of the game as fact, the article twists fact from fiction and paints the impression that Mass Effect 2 is a complete failure of a game. Not only is the actual description itself a gross exaggeration, but due to the nature of the article people will actually be SWAYED by it into thinking less of the game. It makes the readers... sheep to the will of the blogster instead of letting the players check out how the game plays and then judge by themselves.

And yet I feel that the opposite is true concerning reviews in magazines and online. They highly overrated the game and persuaded the masses to buy it simply based on a bias review saying the game is great despite its many obvious flaws. PCGamer is a great example of how modern journalism/reviewing is beginning to praise an unworthy game as if they'd been payed to overlook it's failings. (Specific example: Empire: Total War.)

...   Perhapes because you disagree with it?  Write a review then in saying how your so right and every one else is so wrong..  It would save all of us alot more time.

[WhiskeyKnight]

halfnormal1 wrote...

My own main dissapointment would be the language thing, afterall Bioware did this well in KOTOR and it definately improves the immersiveness.

The probelm in KOTOR is that if you listened closely, the aliens were saying the same 7 or 8 sentences over and over again, with different subtitles underneath. I don't blame Bioware for this -- doing otherwise would require the complete invention of an alien language.

While I expect a lot out of Bioware, I don't expect that.

Modifié par WhiskeyKnight, 02 février 2010 - 05:47 .

[HaloKT]

DoctorPringles wrote...

From what I can tell, the reviewer has alot of personal issues with the game that are hardly worth mentioning. Naming the review about the failures only shows the reviewer is biased and will offer very little constructive feedback about the game.

Having played through the game myself, I say it's a fine RPG worthy of the name Bioware, and it's well worth the play. Some people may not enjoy the genre, but that's really no excuse to bash a game. The reviewer is merely trying to establish himself as not being "mainstream" in that he doesn't enjoy good games by big companies. Saying that Bioware gets 3 extra points for being Bioware is as close to a conspiracy theory as you can get on a review; which are never productive and almost always full of nonsense.

So, I discredit the reviewer for trying far too hard to make himself stand out, and succeeding only in making a fool of himself.

Yeah, thought that as well.

While ME2 is not perfect, and yes, it has its fair share of issues... I found the critic to be quite the hypocrite. He blasts the positive reviews by saying that they neglect to mention negative points in the game and yet he fails to point out anything positive about ME2 and concludes that the game must be a complete mess.

Personally, I don't mind that most aliens speak  English. You can undertand them. It's easier for you to get drawn into the atmosphere that way. Sure, if you're a hardcore geek you might be disappointed that BioWare didn't develop 10 languages for the main species and added subtitles.
He compared it to Star Wars, which had native alien languages to spice up the atmosphere. However, Star Wars was a series of movies, and the main characters all spoke English. Alien languages only occupied very little screen time. While, yes, it did add atmosphere, I cannot imagine this in a game where most of the conversations will be with aliens. In such a case I guess it will even subtract from the atmosphere, since you won't listen to the voice actor anymore but read subtitles instead. Star Wars had it right back then. But I don'T think it would work out if every Asari, Salarian, Quarian and Krogan needed subtitles for conversations...
Plus some alien races actually do seem to have their own language. Geth, Rachni and even Protheans have their own "language". The reason it doesn't show is because it's not part of the story. And concerning understanding the Protheans - that one is explained in ME1.

He does have some good points, but overall they don't distract too much from the game's fun (for me). The characters and the overall atmosphere pull me back into the (rather linear and predictable) gameplay. The only thing that bothers me is that when I finish the game, I feel pretty "unloved". The whole time you're building up a relationship with your crew, only to have them reject or outright ignore you at the end. Will have to do with my stripper secretary and the hope that love interests return with ME3 I guess

[Impresario]

The dumbed down allegation commonly seems to imply that stat management and inventory control is what makes an RPG deep. That narrow assumption places the mechanics into a conventional box hence deviatons are considered heresy.  Do we ever critically ask how much those old conventions detract from story flow, immersiveness and user friendliness?  You can customize your Shep in ME2, but the process is not convoluted. As a result the story, character and immersiveness stay in the forefront. ME2 is much inmproved over its predecessor--not perfect, but a very engaging adventure.   

[Atilius the Hun]

Read the article. This person is nitpicking the heck out of the game and missing the big picture. I have enjoyed ME2 and consider it one of the better games I have played. It reminds me of Deus Ex re: the immersion that the game gives. I don't care if this can be categorized as an RPG, FPS, Third Person Shooter, or whatever. It's an awesome game and kudos for Bioware for their story-telling.