120 réponses à ce sujet

[66six]

I totally agree with OP. They pretty much exhausted every possible angle you could put into a character story so the only logical thing would be not to create new, but to build on the previous.

[shinobi602]

Who says Bioware will not dedicate the resources to put multiple different squadmates in ME3? Hell, you could go through ME2 without using Legion at all, but they put his whole story, mission, and dialogue in there anyway.



I don't see why this can't happen for any ME2 squadmate. They'll just have a second one ready if certain ones died.

[Sereaph502]

I'm about ready to lable everyone saying "oh since people can die in ME2 they won't be in ME3" as trolls. They're only saying it because they have nothing else to say and they think it makes them sound good.



Anyway...This is the finale. There won't be any ME4 or ME5 after this. This is it. For everyone wanting a whole new cast, think for a moment: In Lord of the Rings, did they get an ENTIRELY new cast and throw away all the ones from 1 and 2? No. In Harry Potter: It's longer than 3, sure, but you still see everyone that's been there since the first.



You could argue that they are films and don't count, but they are all trilogies in a way. And trilogies, game or movie, all have some things in common: They don't throw away every old character that they've already fleshed out, and there are a select few people that see things through until the end (from the looks of it right now, it would be Garrus, Tali, and Shepard, as they were the only ones to return from ME1 and ME2. Virmire survivor, Wrex, and Liara weren't with you in ME2.)



Also, let me remind you that since this is a finale, they don't have the time to have you spend 75% of the game recruiting brand new characters, learn their stories, and possibly gain their loyalty too just for one final battle that comes out of nowhere when they could easily have all surviving squad member data imported from a ME2 save to ME3, and have you jump right into the story.



Take your pick: Another game where you spend the whole game recruiting new people, and don't really figure out how to get rid of the reapers, or jump right into the action and have the WHOLE ENTIRE GAME devoted to figuring out a way to deal with the reapers?.

[samuraix87]

a new squad would be pointless and me2 would be a throw away game if the make a new squad since all me2 is about acquiring the best in the terminus systems to go on the final mission

[shinobi602]

I seriously would detest it. I've grown so close to my ME2 squad, just to have them all gone? NO.

[Arelyte]

Sereaph502 wrote...

I'm about ready to lable everyone saying "oh since people can die in ME2 they won't be in ME3" as trolls. They're only saying it because they have nothing else to say and they think it makes them sound good.

Anyway...This is the finale. There won't be any ME4 or ME5 after this. This is it. For everyone wanting a whole new cast, think for a moment: In Lord of the Rings, did they get an ENTIRELY new cast and throw away all the ones from 1 and 2? No. In Harry Potter: It's longer than 3, sure, but you still see everyone that's been there since the first.

You could argue that they are films and don't count, but they are all trilogies in a way. And trilogies, game or movie, all have some things in common: They don't throw away every old character that they've already fleshed out, and there are a select few people that see things through until the end (from the looks of it right now, it would be Garrus, Tali, and Shepard, as they were the only ones to return from ME1 and ME2. Virmire survivor, Wrex, and Liara weren't with you in ME2.)

Also, let me remind you that since this is a finale, they don't have the time to have you spend 75% of the game recruiting brand new characters, learn their stories, and possibly gain their loyalty too just for one final battle that comes out of nowhere when they could easily have all surviving squad member data imported from a ME2 save to ME3, and have you jump right into the story.

Take your pick: Another game where you spend the whole game recruiting new people, and don't really figure out how to get rid of the reapers, or jump right into the action and have the WHOLE ENTIRE GAME devoted to figuring out a way to deal with the reapers?.

Well said. Well said.

[shinobi602]

Sereaph502 wrote...

I'm about ready to lable everyone saying "oh since people can die in ME2 they won't be in ME3" as trolls. They're only saying it because they have nothing else to say and they think it makes them sound good.

Anyway...This is the finale. There won't be any ME4 or ME5 after this. This is it. For everyone wanting a whole new cast, think for a moment: In Lord of the Rings, did they get an ENTIRELY new cast and throw away all the ones from 1 and 2? No. In Harry Potter: It's longer than 3, sure, but you still see everyone that's been there since the first.

You could argue that they are films and don't count, but they are all trilogies in a way. And trilogies, game or movie, all have some things in common: They don't throw away every old character that they've already fleshed out, and there are a select few people that see things through until the end (from the looks of it right now, it would be Garrus, Tali, and Shepard, as they were the only ones to return from ME1 and ME2. Virmire survivor, Wrex, and Liara weren't with you in ME2.)

Also, let me remind you that since this is a finale, they don't have the time to have you spend 75% of the game recruiting brand new characters, learn their stories, and possibly gain their loyalty too just for one final battle that comes out of nowhere when they could easily have all surviving squad member data imported from a ME2 save to ME3, and have you jump right into the story.

Take your pick: Another game where you spend the whole game recruiting new people, and don't really figure out how to get rid of the reapers, or jump right into the action and have the WHOLE ENTIRE GAME devoted to figuring out a way to deal with the reapers?.

Bingo. It wouldn't make sense to have a bunch of new squadmates. It's the last game in the trilogy, it'll be hard to care for them when the series is about to end. We don't have to time to look into their stories and history. MUCH simpler to develop and flesh out all the old characters.

[Boopie-Ne]

Hey, the more single squad mates we have, the better. XD

[jegillan]

Bioware obviously takes into account the achievements people have unlocked. If they see that a vast majority of ME2 players have the No One Left Behind achievement, they would have no reason to conclude that most people lost a lot of their squad. Besides, they'd have a hell of a time explaining why the most skilled team in the galaxy broke up right before the big fight.

[ERJAK2]

contown wrote...

In total, including those from ME1 and 2, we have 16 characters that Shepard has already joined the trust and loyalty of. And they all know how to handle a gun pretty well too. Does Shepard really need to recruit more? I don't want to see an entire new cast in ME3. I don't want a new handful of replacements when we have so many that don't need to be replaced. I want to see these 16 characters that we already have become more fully developed, as opposed to being pushed aside like the majority of the ME1 cast was for ME2.

If we have another 10 new squaddies in ME3, I'm just gonna be pissed. Anybody else with me here?

See the thing about this is, of those 16 characters, only 2 are guaranteed to be alive in ME3: Liara and whoever survived Virmire. My money is on cameos by everyone else and 4 new characters. A squad of six is what you started with, and what you'll end with.

[epoch_]

eh, one or two would be nice. But ya, it would be lame to have to go around and recruit a whole new team again.

[shinobi602]

ERJAK2 wrote...

 A squad of six is what you started with, and what you'll end with.

That would be INTENSELY disappointing, and I think the high majority here would agree with me. Bioware would be STUPID to do that.

[NoBrandOnMe]

I don't care who is in the squad except Tali.. She's not there I don't buy ME3.

[Alraiis]

Man785 wrote...

I see where both of you are coming from, but I am coming from Bioware's point of view with the assumption that they will not dedicate resources into coding and voicing characters that may or may not be used in the game. They were able to do this in ME 2 with Ashley and Kaiden because they were given side plots and weren't used in the main arch of the story. Wrex was also replacable, but did not have a large role in the main story. NPCs you run across are different than main story squadmembers.

Bioware constantly tops itself with quantity of voice work (quality too, IMO, but that's subjective). They aren't really throwing resources away if they fully voice and animate at least some the ME2 squad members for ME3, even if you don't see them. Sure, those resources might appear "wasted" if you endured a massacre, but consider this: you play through the game as [male/female] [Paragon/Renegade/Neutral] Shepard. So, in one playthrough, you're only hearing about 1/4th of dialogue and 1/2 the animations created for Shepard. Quite a few people have probably never heard Hale's lines. Some have never heard Meer. But Bioware put both in.

Will there be new squadmates in ME3. Absolutely. But they'll bring back some fan-favorite ME2 and ME1 squadmates as well. They'll make back the money they spend.

[flem1]

Agree 100%. Maybe a couple of NPCs we've already met (bartender? Aria?) but that's it.

[ERJAK2]

Sereaph502 wrote...

I'm about ready to lable everyone saying "oh since people can die in ME2 they won't be in ME3" as trolls. They're only saying it because they have nothing else to say and they think it makes them sound good.

Anyway...This is the finale. There won't be any ME4 or ME5 after this. This is it. For everyone wanting a whole new cast, think for a moment: In Lord of the Rings, did they get an ENTIRELY new cast and throw away all the ones from 1 and 2? No. In Harry Potter: It's longer than 3, sure, but you still see everyone that's been there since the first.

You could argue that they are films and don't count, but they are all trilogies in a way. And trilogies, game or movie, all have some things in common: They don't throw away every old character that they've already fleshed out, and there are a select few people that see things through until the end (from the looks of it right now, it would be Garrus, Tali, and Shepard, as they were the only ones to return from ME1 and ME2. Virmire survivor, Wrex, and Liara weren't with you in ME2.)

Also, let me remind you that since this is a finale, they don't have the time to have you spend 75% of the game recruiting brand new characters, learn their stories, and possibly gain their loyalty too just for one final battle that comes out of nowhere when they could easily have all surviving squad member data imported from a ME2 save to ME3, and have you jump right into the story.

Take your pick: Another game where you spend the whole game recruiting new people, and don't really figure out how to get rid of the reapers, or jump right into the action and have the WHOLE ENTIRE GAME devoted to figuring out a way to deal with the reapers?.

I would love it if this was true, but the development resources needed to bring back specifically the characters that survived and have them be more then people who stand next to you and shoot, would be wasteful. I'm not saying they should throw everyone out, and I'm not saying they should introduce many new squad members(4 at the MAX) but I really can't imagine how they're going to do this without either making people angry, or sacrificing additional character development.

Okay, I can, a longer development cycle with a bigger team would do it, but that makes ME3 come out later then it would otherwise and I'm not sure that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

[Grayvern]

Bioware should just release a half again as much package for Me3 that includes 2. And if actions have consequences then they should have major characters like Tali and Garrus, that could die, in major roles. Besides why would Thane leave the Normandy given the danger of the reapers to his sons future.

[Man785]

Sereaph502 wrote...

I'm about ready to lable everyone saying "oh since people can die in ME2 they won't be in ME3" as trolls. They're only saying it because they have nothing else to say and they think it makes them sound good.

Anyway...This is the finale. There won't be any ME4 or ME5 after this. This is it. For everyone wanting a whole new cast, think for a moment: In Lord of the Rings, did they get an ENTIRELY new cast and throw away all the ones from 1 and 2? No. In Harry Potter: It's longer than 3, sure, but you still see everyone that's been there since the first.

You could argue that they are films and don't count, but they are all trilogies in a way. And trilogies, game or movie, all have some things in common: They don't throw away every old character that they've already fleshed out, and there are a select few people that see things through until the end (from the looks of it right now, it would be Garrus, Tali, and Shepard, as they were the only ones to return from ME1 and ME2. Virmire survivor, Wrex, and Liara weren't with you in ME2.)

Also, let me remind you that since this is a finale, they don't have the time to have you spend 75% of the game recruiting brand new characters, learn their stories, and possibly gain their loyalty too just for one final battle that comes out of nowhere when they could easily have all surviving squad member data imported from a ME2 save to ME3, and have you jump right into the story.

Take your pick: Another game where you spend the whole game recruiting new people, and don't really figure out how to get rid of the reapers, or jump right into the action and have the WHOLE ENTIRE GAME devoted to figuring out a way to deal with the reapers?.

Because giving you my opinion of what I believe will be, which happens to be the opposite of what you what, that makes me a troll.

I would personally love to see Batman Garrus come back, his new ME2 persona won me over. I loved all of my ME2 crew, even Jack won me over.
Maybe they grab a handful of your ME2 squad and make them available, but if you got them killed they wont be available on your gameplay.

[Grayvern]

Development of sequels on the same console tends to get easier as all the tecnology is in place. Also in terms of recruiting a squad what wrong with simply re recruiting. Besides all this it would be a real story cludge splitting the cre up again, since ship destruction and shepard death have already been used. Saying they split up with time would be strange as it would ro the reaper threat of immediacy.

[flem1]

Here's the thing: ME2 has 10/11 party members. Most of their content is in their personal quests, but ME3 isn't going to be about personal quests (except, I'd guess, Liara's). Outside of that, you're *already* in a situation where most people don't see the other character stuff these folks have, because you only bring 2 people on each mission and all the shipboard chat is optional.

So if ME3 is a year later, you could have Zaeed off after the contract, Thane dead from his illness, and Mordin retired. Add Liara, Ashley/Kaiden, and Wrex, and you have the same size cast as ME2.  Those plus whoever survived from ME2 (and a few have to survive or Shep dies) are enough for any particular playthrough.

Modifié par flem1, 02 février 2010 - 07:52 .

[Sereaph502]

ERJAK2 wrote...

Sereaph502 wrote...

I'm about ready to lable everyone saying "oh since people can die in ME2 they won't be in ME3" as trolls. They're only saying it because they have nothing else to say and they think it makes them sound good.

Anyway...This is the finale. There won't be any ME4 or ME5 after this. This is it. For everyone wanting a whole new cast, think for a moment: In Lord of the Rings, did they get an ENTIRELY new cast and throw away all the ones from 1 and 2? No. In Harry Potter: It's longer than 3, sure, but you still see everyone that's been there since the first.

You could argue that they are films and don't count, but they are all trilogies in a way. And trilogies, game or movie, all have some things in common: They don't throw away every old character that they've already fleshed out, and there are a select few people that see things through until the end (from the looks of it right now, it would be Garrus, Tali, and Shepard, as they were the only ones to return from ME1 and ME2. Virmire survivor, Wrex, and Liara weren't with you in ME2.)

Also, let me remind you that since this is a finale, they don't have the time to have you spend 75% of the game recruiting brand new characters, learn their stories, and possibly gain their loyalty too just for one final battle that comes out of nowhere when they could easily have all surviving squad member data imported from a ME2 save to ME3, and have you jump right into the story.

Take your pick: Another game where you spend the whole game recruiting new people, and don't really figure out how to get rid of the reapers, or jump right into the action and have the WHOLE ENTIRE GAME devoted to figuring out a way to deal with the reapers?.

I would love it if this was true, but the development resources needed to bring back specifically the characters that survived and have them be more then people who stand next to you and shoot, would be wasteful. I'm not saying they should throw everyone out, and I'm not saying they should introduce many new squad members(4 at the MAX) but I really can't imagine how they're going to do this without either making people angry, or sacrificing additional character development.

Okay, I can, a longer development cycle with a bigger team would do it, but that makes ME3 come out later then it would otherwise and I'm not sure that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

Because if Bioware doesn't want to "waste" resources on the ME2 squad members, then that's a sign that they're getting lazy and don't care anymore.  And if they just throw away all the ME2 squad members based on the "possibility" that they can die, then our choices obviously don't count to them, and ME2 was completely useless.  Bioware knows that the game has the No One Left Behind achievement, and they know that many, many, many people have it.

Oh.  And "waste" is a rather strong word.  Using it would sound as if you or bioware doesn't care about the characters in the game.  Maybe you don't like ME2s cast, but a lot more people do.

Modifié par Sereaph502, 02 février 2010 - 07:52 .

[Ocelot83]

Ill post this here also, since this seems to be to a more popular thread about pretty much the same subject.

The current opinion on the forum seems to be, that keeping all the
(surviving) squadmates from ME 2 in ME 3 is going to be somekind of a
humongous/impossible task for Bioware.
From a pure plot/writing
viewpoint it really isn't. For my claim I have to presume, that the
plot of ME 3  is more epic event driven story, it will not be as
character driven as ME 2, like it shouldn't be because you already have
your team, now your full attention can be concentrated on stopping the
Reapers. This way no other character, other than Shepard, is truly
critical to the storyline.

Squadmates who are on a mission with you usually react only to big story elements, and these lines are usually pretty generic:
-"You have to help them Shepard"/"We don't have time to help them Shepard"
So
you only need about 20-30 of these per character. Easily done, you
could write them in a day, after you know the important plot points in
ME 3.

Squadmates in Normandy need about 300-800 new lines to
deepen their character, depending on the character (I don't see Grunt
having that many lines other than "Let's break some skulls battlemaster"). So not a big problem.

How
the meeting between ME 1 and ME 2 love interests will play out has
already been shown,  it will most likely be very similar to Tali/Legion
and Miranda/Jack confrontations, and they will probably use some same
lines between different combinations (Tali/Ashley, Tali/Liara).

As a prize for keeping the team alive, there will probably be some bonus missions/sidequests from some of the
characters. For example:
-Deal with Mirandas father permanently.
-Get a better platform for Legion.

Character
death is even easier to handle. Since only Mordin is the only important
character for gameplay (because you need him to research the upgrades),
and because he seems to die quite often, Bioware has probably already
designed a replacement scientist in the case of his death (his name is
probably dr. Muzyka and he is the most powerful person of ME universe).[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Plotwise the deaths are very simple to handle, for example:
-Tali
dies and you need the help of the quarians. You can still persuade them
to help you, "She died to save us all"/"She doesn't matter"
-Grunt and the krogans. "He died like a true krogan"/"He was too weak to survive"
-Legion can be installed in to a new platform.
-And etc.

[Malanek]

I'm pretty easy either way. Tali and Garus were both much more interesting in ME2 which shows that building on characters works.

[Andysilv]

We really need a sticky for ME3 squad mate speculation. Do the devs even read this forum?