154 réponses à ce sujet

[Schneidend]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Apparently, lots of people play this game way differently than I do. I generally don't find crouch to be useful, but I guess y'all have different ideas. I enjoyed reading all the justifications for including crouch, though, and encourage y'all to keep it up.

To be fair, Stan, crouch was incredibly useful in the first game. It dramatically improved your accuracy in the early levels. Without crouch, the assault rifle was next to worthless without plenty of points in the talent. Recoil slaughtered your accuracy almost instantly.

I'd love to see the ability to lay prone, as I noticed several level layouts where it would have proved invaluable and the Widow itself even has a little tripod. If crouching isn't implemented, firing from the side of low cover should at least reduce recoil, since you're kneeling.

[CatatonicMan]

One thing I've noticed is that the enemy AI behaves differently when you are behind cover (stuck to it, more like) vs. not. Anyone else noticed this?

If I am correct, crouching might not work well with how they designed the AI. Still wish there was crouching, though.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 06 février 2010 - 05:18 .

[Sirsmirkalot]

Actualy Stanley, in ME1 crouching was better used as a tool to improve your aim/accuracy with long/medium range weapons than just hiding behind a rock a la Gears of War. So i guess you are right, it is moot but not because of low covers (which already existed in ME1 fyi) but because accuracy through skill increase was removed altogether

Not true, it also serves as an escape tool. I've died multiple times on insanity because when I tried to fall back from behind cover, my character would stand up instead of staying low.

But in the end, having to click a button to go into cover instead of auto cover is more of a hinderance.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 06 février 2010 - 05:24 .

[Darth Drago]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Apparently, lots of people play this game way differently than I do. I generally don't find crouch to be useful, but I guess y'all have different ideas. I enjoyed reading all the justifications for including crouch, though, and encourage y'all to keep it up.

Sounds like every decision made for this game. Do you guys just remove features for the hell of it, just because you can? What possible reason would there be to remove it in the first place? 

It's not controversial. It certainly didn't bother anyone that it was there. Maybe some people crouched and some didn't; useful to some, not so much to others.

This is the kind of thinking that ruined Deus Ex - "if it's not absolutely necessary, get rid of it!". Stupid way to design a game.

Exactly my thinking….

In ME1 I used crouch to stay low and out of sight while I tried to sneak into a room. Looking at my mini map and assess the location of known enemies and plan my next move including placement of my companions. Now not only is the mini map gone, something that I figured was some sort of HUD built in to Shepard’s helmet (regardless if visually its on or off) but I can better position my companions. Seems like 2 steps forward and 3 backward in thinking to me.

I also used crouching to get a better angle on attacking the enemies while behind cover of all sorts, crates, walls, trees or whatever was there. This was especially useful when sniping. I could get into position crouch walk a little out and take a few shots return to cover and repeat. But I guess with the sniper gun pretty much useless now with its limited ammo and shoot, reload shoot crap.

Now the game is set up in a way where you go into a room/area standing out and practically shouting out to all the enemies there “Hey, I’m here!” Its gone totally towards a mindless shooter.

[Maephina]

Irony is I've only been playing the game a few hours and I've already seen Miranda and Jacob both crouch mid-combat during the Freedom's Progress mission.

I am confused why my character can not crouch. I found it rather useful for moving into cover.

Ah well, good to know it's not even in the game. I thought I was just an idiot mashing control lol.

[Andaius20]

Indeed Companions if told to go to no cover locations in combat will crouch. Next time you do Grunt loyalty mission just got to one of the side areas back a was from the Varren spawn points and have your team to your flanks in the open letting the Varren come to you. They will crouch.

[Dark Glasses]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Apparently, lots of people play this game way differently than I do. I generally don't find crouch to be useful, but I guess y'all have different ideas. I enjoyed reading all the justifications for including crouch, though, and encourage y'all to keep it up.

Sounds like every decision made for this game. Do you guys just remove features for the hell of it, just because you can? What possible reason would there be to remove it in the first place?

That's exactly my thought. Why remove something when it's not broken?

[Varenus Luckmann]

Crouch was likely removed to accommodate the already-crowded console controller, which is also why a single button shares four completely seperate functions (Use/Run/Cover/Vault), to the natural detriment to PC Gamers.

The function to crouch is actually still in the game, as is the function that increases accuracy while doing so. But if it was given to PC Gamers, X360 players would have to be given the same ability - something that apparently wasn't feasible. They probably figured that "We already have cover anyway, so let's free up a button that we can't otherwise combine with other buttons".

It requires some minor Coalesced.ini editing. Look around the mod threads.

[iTz Wrex]

Avissel wrote...

the ability to randomly crouch wouldn't even be helpful.

well you can T bag

[Elanthanis]

I'm pretty neutral on the whole matter, but keep in mind that it's not like this game is ME1 modded to a different combat system- it's a pretty ground-up rework. Crouch likely was never even in early builds and the design team probably didn't think to include it with the low cover mechanic.



I think it's safe to say that adding it into ME3 if it does grant a -meaningful- reduction in enemy accuracy at a penalty for speed would not be a bad thing at all. I just see its exclusion in this game more as oversight rather than a case of "evil developers trying to rob you of your fun" (an active design choice).

[Varenus Luckmann]

Elanthanis wrote...
I'm pretty neutral on the whole matter, but keep in mind that it's not like this game is ME1 modded to a different combat system- it's a pretty ground-up rework. Crouch likely was never even in early builds and the design team probably didn't think to include it with the low cover mechanic.

I think it's safe to say that adding it into ME3 if it does grant a -meaningful- reduction in enemy accuracy at a penalty for speed would not be a bad thing at all. I just see its exclusion in this game more as oversight rather than a case of "evil developers trying to rob you of your fun" (an active design choice).

As I said, the function is there. You have to have made an active decision to take it out (if a leftover from ME1) or to never include it (after programming the function).

[Elanthanis]

... You weren't listening, were you. ME2's combat system is a complete redesign, not an adjustment. They took the Unreal engine and built ME2's system anew. It's not a mod of the original. You can't have "leftovers" from a system you're not using when building something ground-up.



Again, just because it was in the first game does not, mean that you had someone hitting the delete key on every line of perceived wasteful code. It's far easier to take the engine and start from scratch, adding in features they think should be there. Crouch probably not considered, or not considered a priority feature to add into the game.



Again, I think it would be something good to have in there because it's something that people obviously enjoy. Despite what the boards here would have most believe: Bioware does not build games to steal your fun. They just want your money, and they want you to keep spending it.

[Andaius20]

...but he's saying if you go into the MASS EFFECT 2 Coalesced.ini you can see the COUCHING function is in there. So it's built into ME 2 they just didn't put it in the controls.

[Elanthanis]

Again, probably an oversight or not high enough priority to make it in the final product

[Athelius]

Crouching doesn't seem like it would help in such a cover-focused game...



What I would like is a decent jump/climb system. Having to cover before jumping over something is kinda annoying.

[AngryFrozenWater]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Crouching was made moot because of low cover. Some folks are talking as if low cover is the only cover in a combat. It is not. You can also take cover behind higher objects like walls. The ability to crouch is not what defines this game or any shooter.

What about increasing accuracy? How many shooters have you guys played, exactly?

The average shooter has both crouch (to improve cover) and prone (to improve accuracy). Very common is "lean left/lean right" too.

BTW: I also don't get the climb-thingie... I need to take cover to jump onto things? Not very handy. Also, because of the key combnation I keep jumping over cover by accident. Happens often to me. Hehe.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 01 mars 2010 - 01:04 .

[Zcorck]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Crouching was made moot because of low cover. Some folks are talking as if low cover is the only cover in a combat. It is not. You can also take cover behind higher objects like walls. The ability to crouch is not what defines this game or any shooter.

What about increasing accuracy? How many shooters have you guys played, exactly?

The average shooter has both crouch (to improve cover) and prone (to improve accuracy). Very common is "lean left/lean right" too.

BTW: I also don't get the climb-thingie... I need to take cover to jump onto things? Not very handy. Also, because of the key combnation I keep jumping over cover by accident. Happens often to me. Hehe.

I've done that myself, and when I keep jumping over the cover by accident i keep yelling at my Shep.

There's also been a few times where a hostile approached from the side while I was in low cover, so because I turned around to attack it I began to automatically stand up and have my back riddles with bullets.
With Carnifex for instance, 'cos it doesn't have a lot of ammo you gotta make your bullets count at least on Insanity, so increased accuracy would come in handy.

[FlintlockJazz]

I wouldn't find crouching to be useful at all to be honest. If you're not behind cover in ME2 then it's only because you're moving to other cover, in which case you want to be legging it anyway since crouching means moving at slower speed, which bad guys will take as you letting them line up their shots. Considering the fact that all it takes is a few shots to kill you anyway in ME2 then crouching in any place outside of cover is just plain stupid, while the 'bonus to aiming' doesn't really apply anymore since the aim is now player-based and not character based.  That's my experience anyway.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 01 mars 2010 - 02:42 .

[Klystron]

Sometimes the cover-centered combat system gets a little hokey.  You're running through an open area, and suddenly there's a little wall.  Uh-oh, duck behind it, there will be combat!

I can't blame BW, they did a reasonable job of making the best of the UT engine, but I it's still kind of ... er ... unreal.

[Martanek]

Hello,

for those who want to use cover in-game add the following line in the Coalesced.ini file under the

"SFXGame.SFXGameModeDefault" category.



Bindings=( Name="Delete", Command="set SFXPawn_Player bWantsToCrouch true | OnRelease set SFXPawn_Player bWantsToCrouch false" )



I discovered this elsewhere on these forums so I do not take any credits for it. One more thing, even with crouching, weapon accuracy do not increase. Maybe someone will find a way how to change appropriate settings related to it. I am definitely sure that they can also be adjusted through the Coalesced.ini file.

[DefiantRye]

I never really used to crouch in the first game anyway

[itsdynamitebaby]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Crouching was made moot because of low cover. Some folks are talking as if low cover is the only cover in a combat. It is not. You can also take cover behind higher objects like walls. The ability to crouch is not what defines this game or any shooter.

I have to disagree. Low cover is great and all, but if I have to pop up from behind the cover to shoot, thereby revealing my entire upper torso,  taking crouch out  makes no sense. In combat you want to present as little of yourself as possible. By adding the cover system minus the crouch ability you have made it so that shooting from a covered position makes you more vulnerable. Plus taking a low cover position just looks ridiculous becauseShepard always drops behind something low, but seems to keep his head visible over the top.

[GnusmasTHX]

XxRTEKxX wrote...

Seriously, I seem to recall them saying they wanted to really concentrate on the combat system. Leaving out the ability to crouch sounds like they didn't concentrate very hard.

You crouch automatically when you try to enter low cover, genius.

[Prkl8r]

XxRTEKxX wrote...

I rented the game, so I do not have the manual to answer my question.

How do I crouch?

In ME1, I think it was simply click the left stick. However, I've tried that on ME2 and it doesnt work, I've tried every other button but have not been able to crouch.

Easy fix here actually.

Return it.

[Cornelian]

I miss the possibility of crouching in ME2.