19 réponses à ce sujet

[Mersozz Yelo]

I haven't been here for a while.  But figured I would pop in to see what was going on. 

I noticed the Toolset Update post (now about 3 weeks old) indicating that a new toolset would be released at some unkown point.  Of particular interest were the comments indicating that the toolset "was not a direct revenue generator".

Well, I wish I had known that before I went out and purchased DAO.....because the promise of a working toolset was the reason that I directed my revenue toward the purchase of the game.

EDIT:  So, I'm holding back until the release of the new version.

Until such time, I'll be working under the NWN2 toolset, which in my opinion is far less frustrating.

And the next time around (NWN3, DAO2, whatever), don't expect to generate any revenue from me until I'm confident that all the game components have been delivered as promised.

Modifié par Mersozz Yelo, 04 février 2010 - 12:37 .

[ChewyGumball]

bye

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Lol.



The toolset is functional, and it's really not that hard to use.

[ladydesire]

Mersozz Yelo wrote...

I haven't been here for a while.  But figured I would pop in to see what was going on. 

I noticed the Toolset Update post (now about 3 weeks old) indicating that a new toolset would be released at some unkown point.  Of particular interest were the comments indicating that the toolset "was not a direct revenue generator".

Does distributing it to player modders make Bioware any money?

Well, I wish I had known that before I went out and purchased DAO.....because the promise of a working toolset was the reason that I directed my revenue toward the purchase of the game.

So, I'm heading back to NWN2, to a working toolset that doesn't require both a computer science degree and the patience of a saint.

Other than possible issues with installing the database tools needed, I don't think it really requires much of either, unless you expected to be able to pump out stuff within a few weeks of starting to use it.

And the next time around (NWN3, DAO2, whatever), don't expect to generate any revenue from me until I'm confident that all the game components have been delivered as promised.

This is the first game I've actually gotten early enough to be on the cutting edge of the learning curve; man is it sharp... I'm also glad that we don't have to hunt all over the Internet to find out how to do things in the toolset; some things that might seem to have been implemented in a backward fashion actually make sense to me now that I've worked with the toolset since it came out.

[Mersozz Yelo]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Lol.

The toolset is functional, and it's really not that hard to use.

According to the pinned "Toolset Update" topic, a new version will be released at some later date.  That post is about 3 weeks old.

To me, that doesn't qualify as functional.

Maybe if there were more than a half dozen user made mods out there, I'd think differently.  And perhaps in time my opinion might change. 

But I dropped out over a month ago given the state of affairs, and then I come back, and see a litter of "I'm having problems with x,y,z" posts, and a stale developer post saying a new version will be released somewhere down the road, and I'm not encouraged.

Modifié par Mersozz Yelo, 03 février 2010 - 03:40 .

[FollowTheGourd]

Mersozz Yelo wrote...

According to the pinned "Toolset Update" topic, a new version will be released at some later date.  That post is about 3 weeks old.

To me, that doesn't qualify as functional.

Isn't it a given that there's always room for improvement in a non-trivial piece of software...  If you had specific complaints, this topic might be more interesting than the slew of them back in November and now just another "it does not meet mit my approval" thread. But not if it's just to gripe and rehash the same old thing.

Perhaps you've also missed the one update so far... or maybe not, but NWN2 has had how many years to polish the toolset now? Granted, the DA:O toolset could have been better on release.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 03 février 2010 - 04:30 .

[Bibdy]

Its a shame you don't have the patience to get into it, but don't embarass yourself by pretending like its the lack of support or that the toolset isn't functioning correctly as to why you're refusing to work with it.

If you don't have the knowledge or patience, that's fine. But don't act like those are things that can be fixed without any action on your part.

Modifié par Bibdy, 03 février 2010 - 04:45 .

[Qutayba]

It's an incredibly powerful toolset. I'm finding that my patience has been rewarded. It's a steep learning curve, true, but there are a lot fewer limitations on what you can do than in any other toolset I've worked with.

[Deception_2112]

Its a very difficult toolset, but its not impossible...=/



I find that this toolset allowed me to import models far quicker than say Beth's one which took a while..



DAO has been released for 2-3 months and i've managed to get custom armor and weapons in, not many games manage that tbh.

[Challseus]

Mersozz Yelo wrote...
According to the pinned "Toolset Update" topic, a new version will be released at some later date.  That post is about 3 weeks old.

To me, that doesn't qualify as functional.

Maybe if there were more than a half dozen user made mods out there, I'd think differently.  And perhaps in time my opinion might change. 

But I dropped out over a month ago given the state of affairs, and then I come back, and see a litter of "I'm having problems with x,y,z" posts, and a stale developer post saying a new version will be released somewhere down the road, and I'm not encouraged.

Just because a new update is coming in the "future", it doesn't mean the current version "isn't" working. I personally have been creating a module for a few months now. Of course issues pop up every once in a while, but that is to be expected.

As for a half dozen mods that are released, please see this post. In fact, there are more, as Alley of Murders isn't on that list.

If you are having issues with development, that's fine, but please don't spread misinformation.

[SnipeyMcGee]

The toolset is complicated, certainly. But the community has video walkthroughs, step by step guides and an active forum to answer any questions a builder might have. Given time and patience, just about anyone can use the toolset. I will say that I wish the there was more variety in models, be it buildings or whatnot, simply because it's hard to make something that isn't Dragon Age. But that's a minor gripe.

[ladydesire]

Mersozz Yelo wrote...


But I dropped out over a month ago given the state of affairs, and then I come back, and see a litter of "I'm having problems with x,y,z" posts, and a stale developer post saying a new version will be released somewhere down the road, and I'm not encouraged.

How often did Bioware update the toolset for NWN and how often did Obsidian do the same for the NWN2 toolset? They only updated it when they updated the game, as I recall, so the fact that the toolset for DA hasn't been updated lately is no different than for the other games I mentioned.

[Mersozz Yelo]

Bibdy wrote...



Its a shame you don't have the patience to get into it, but don't embarass yourself by pretending like its the lack of support or that the toolset isn't functioning correctly as to why you're refusing to work with it.



If you don't have the knowledge or patience, that's fine. But don't act like those are things that can be fixed without any action on your part.

I'll freely admit that my patience is limited, insofar as my time for technical troubleshooting is limited.



But I disagree regarding the knowledge part. I've used the NWN1 toolset, the NWN2 toolset, and the DAO toolset, and I speak from the perspective of someone who has created a Hall of Fame module. I'm not saying that to brag, but only to provide some context.



I spent a great deal of time following the toolset release to troubleshoot the various installation issues. After getting the toolset up and running, I encountered the lightmapping issues (creating a checkerboard pattern on my areas). That was some time ago....and at that time, the problem was a "known issue".



At that point, I decided to just postpone my activity and then come back at a later time to see if a fix was in the works. I saw version 1.01, along with a variety of posts indicating that 1.01 had created more issues. So once again, I waited a bit more, thinking that in time those issues would be addressed.



So just the other day, I came back in, and checked the "Toolset Update" post, after being away for some time. That is where I saw that a new version was going to be released. From that post, I surmised that if a new version was going to be released, then the old version was still not up to par.



That is where I drew the conclusion that the toolset was not working. Obviously, others disagree with this. I respect their opinions, and more importantly, their dedication.



If some feel I'm spreading false information, then I regret if my comments gave them that view. That is certainly not my point.



I understand, following the remarks that I've read, that there are those that find the toolset to be "working". I'm willing to retain an open mind regarding that point. Perhaps when I see the forthcoming version, along with a plethora of new community modules, I'll be converted from the ranks of the disillusioned.



With respect to your comment about embarrassing myself, I don't feel embarrassed at all. Rather, I'm merely expressing my disappointment, which is within my bounds as a consumer, and a longtime fan of Bioware products.

[Mersozz Yelo]

EDIT: I've edited the subject of this post, to remove some negativity, and out of respect for the constructive spirit that guides most of the people that post here.

[Elvhen Veluthil]

I have a similar feeling that the toolset will not get much official support in the long run. But I have to admit that there are quite some devs posting in here and doing their best to help as much as they can, and that is very encouraging. I may be totally wrong in my assumptions, but I think that right now Bioware/EA is very busy with their DLC plan. And that plan affects somehow user created content and the toolset. If they have that kind of problems to release half a hour of DLC (RtO) for the consoles, I doubt they will want to try their (bs talk from the beginning imo) plan to commercialize the modding community now. Which mean no money from here, and not really helping their DLC plan either. I don't know how much different the DAO 2 engine will be, but if radically different, I doubt we'll see a DAO2 toolset (the level editor was added in a late stage in the current toolset for example).



These are just assumptions from my part really, and having been around the release of NWN2 toolset, I can't say the DAO toolset is doing badly. It's early, I think we'll see some impressive work from the community this year, the stand alone mods take time. But it wouldn't hurt if Bioware had some contests and such to keep thing going, short mods contest, machinima...etc, like Obsidian did with their toolset. Anyway, whatever their plans, it never hurts if they did let the community know what their real plans for the toolset are.

[Dark_Ansem]

Deception_2112 wrote...

Its a very difficult toolset, but its not impossible...=/

I find that this toolset allowed me to import models far quicker than say Beth's one which took a while..

DAO has been released for 2-3 months and i've managed to get custom armor and weapons in, not many games manage that tbh.

someone should make a tutorial for importing armor. If anything, to remove some of the negativity the TC spoke about

Modifié par Dark_Ansem, 04 février 2010 - 02:25 .

[Mersozz Yelo]

Elvhen Veluthil wrote...

I have a similar feeling that the toolset will not get much official support in the long run. But I have to admit that there are quite some devs posting in here and doing their best to help as much as they can, and that is very encouraging. I may be totally wrong in my assumptions, but I think that right now Bioware/EA is very busy with their DLC plan. And that plan affects somehow user created content and the toolset. If they have that kind of problems to release half a hour of DLC (RtO) for the consoles, I doubt they will want to try their (bs talk from the beginning imo) plan to commercialize the modding community now. Which mean no money from here, and not really helping their DLC plan either. I don't know how much different the DAO 2 engine will be, but if radically different, I doubt we'll see a DAO2 toolset (the level editor was added in a late stage in the current toolset for example).

These are just assumptions from my part really, and having been around the release of NWN2 toolset, I can't say the DAO toolset is doing badly. It's early, I think we'll see some impressive work from the community this year, the stand alone mods take time. But it wouldn't hurt if Bioware had some contests and such to keep thing going, short mods contest, machinima...etc, like Obsidian did with their toolset. Anyway, whatever their plans, it never hurts if they did let the community know what their real plans for the toolset are.

That's a good way of putting things in perspective.

Perhaps the best route is for me to play through the Official Campaign and revisit the toolset after the new version is released.

[Petehog]

I think the toolset is very difficult but not impossible to learn. It was a steep learning curve as compared to Fallout 3's GECK. As of now, I have only focused on designing head morphs, and that was difficult to master. Now, that I have mastered it, it doesn't take as much time. Still, I can't make levels or do other things that I would like to do.There's a lot of great ideas that I have in my mind but I have no means of executing them onto the toolset. Nevertheless, I love it when games come with toolsets, because a "toolset" is a game in and of itself. It adds considerable replayability to the game. And what's nice about a community having a toolset is that everyone has their specialization and everyone can share to make the experience much better for everyone.

[Baracuda6977]

I have to say, Mersozz Yelo, maybe its your avatar but you sound like a cranky modder snob, which made this thread legitimately one of the funniest i've read on this site



that said, this toolset is a monster that want to devour my sanity,

with some clear errors, like how do i get a golem to have a head? that really shouldn't be a problem

[Mersozz Yelo]

Baracuda6977 wrote...

I have to say, Mersozz Yelo, maybe its your avatar but you sound like a cranky modder snob, which made this thread legitimately one of the funniest i've read on this site

that said, this toolset is a monster that want to devour my sanity,
with some clear errors, like how do i get a golem to have a head? that really shouldn't be a problem

That wasn't my intention, I can assure you.

But, my avatar does look a bit cranky.