116 réponses à ce sujet

[Pinkleaf]

If by accident or by plan, having a muted PC is brilliant, I hope they never change this.

[Querne]

Eurypterid wrote...

I believe you're overlooking the spirit of the OP's premise in that money (and therefore, I assume, resources) isn't an issue. SO assume you can have all the options, only voiced.

Yes, it was exactly meant this way.
My problem is, that even if there was an own voice for every race, it probably still wouldn´t cover the different personalities we might have in mind for our PCs. So me, personally would still need more basic types like "sarcastic", "innocent" and so on wich would be hard to implement because it would easily get exaggarated and ridiculous. 
Perhaps my PC is a quiet, nice guy getting absolutely mad when he hears about Templars? I think that voicing couldn´t consider every choice I make and push the PC into a stereotype a little bit.

When f.e. Alistair told his lamp post answer, I was stunned, amused and a little bit sheepish. A voiced PC wouldn´t be able to transfer my feelings into his next answer.

In "the Witcher" you play a predefined character wich you can only act out differently, while in DA:O you actually start with a blanket, so it´s difficult to compare I think.

  

Modifié par Querne, 03 février 2010 - 06:19 .

[bconk55]

OnlineSucks wrote...

Querne wrote...

I´d like to read your opinion if you would prefer your PC voiced or not (besides of possible costs).


I have read many statments of people, who didn´t like their PC mute. 
I, myself was glad, that the PC doesn´t speak. Perhaps I missed some more mimic, but not a voice.

This way it feels as if I would speak myself, with my own intonation and mood. If my PC was voiced and his way of talking would not fit to my own feelings, it would depart me from my character.
I felt this way playing ME1, the female german voice was a little bit too harsh for me and I felt like piloting another person through the game instead beeing inside myself.
Of course this doesn´t concern NPCs, they HAVE to talk to get a personality and show emotions.

My question doesn´t concern, if voicing is realistic regarding financial issues, but what you would prefer if you had free choice and why.

Yes in a roleplaying game the main character is supposed to me, thus I don't want some gimpy voice actor ruining that.

On the contrary. You are meant to assume a role, not the other way around. If you decide to play as your own alter ego, that's fine, but I guess I'd be curious to know if you also attempt to match your looks and voice as best you can. Maybe you do, what do I know. The point is, however, that for a lot of players there is an immersion break with a silent and non-emotive PC, one that is larger than, "that voice didn't sound the way I would have delivered that line".

[IcemanII]

Majere613 wrote...

I want my PC to shut the heck up when I'm telling her what to do. 'Can I get you a ladder, so you can get off my back?' every ten seconds is deeply annoying.

Ahh the violent vioce.. 

[blade12775]

I would like to have the PC voiced. I got used to it when I played ME. I actually liked it more than I thought I would. But then again, not having the PC voiced it makes it your own in it's own way I guess. Overall, I would have like the PC to be voiced.

[RangerSG]

1) Realistically there's no way a game could have the dialogue options DA does and be voiced. Both ME and Witcher have a set protagonist and both also have much more limited choice options in dialogue. The voiced option works in more action-oriented games. But in a true RPG? No, not at all.



2) The idea of making the voice "toggled" is even more absurd. After spending the money to voice 14 different soundsets for hundreds of different options, could one seriously expect that those options would be turned off?



3) I do think some more camera pans to show PC expressions would help immersion. It's not like the engine cannot handle doing this, as the game already shows NPCs making expressions. I also think the gestures are somewhat out of line with what is going on sometimes too. Characters are constantly crossing their arms when they're carrying on conversations with friends. That's a gesture that typically conveys, "We're done talking," to the recipient.



Anyway, no I don't want voiced PCs. I don't think it's realistic. And I don't think it really adds anything.

[Stakis]

yet another topic about the PC having voice, powered by the hornyness of recently playing of ME2 no doubt, thing is ME2 is like playing MSG or tomb raider, your playing shepard the way you played solid or lara, having a mute PC means you should use your imagination take advantage of a decent char creator and get immersed on a great RPG experience wich ME2 clearly is not since is more shooter / action with dialogues., anyway hope they dont ever put voice in the PC, its not needed.

[TheMadCat]

Yes, it was exactly meant this way.

My problem is, that even if there was an own voice for every race, it probably still wouldn´t cover the different personalities we might have in mind for our PCs. So me, personally would still need more basic types like "sarcastic", "innocent" and so on wich would be hard to implement because it would easily get exaggarated and ridiculous.

Perhaps my PC is a quiet, nice guy getting absolutely mad when he hears about Templars? I think that voicing couldn´t consider every choice I make and push the PC into a stereotype a little bit.

Well if we aren't taking money and resources into account then why not. Bioware could hire on 20-30 voice actors for each gender, each one with an individual pitch and dialect. You could easily cover all ranges and possibilities with that.



But this is why the premise of this thread is somewhat silly. Everyone would love a voiced PC if you had dozens of possible options to choose from, even me. But reality on this is quite different, there is no way in hell they could accommodate that. It's like asking someone if they'd own a Porsche if money was no object.

[TheLion36]

Said this in another thread before, I want no voice... Now I can pretend the character is me, but when someone else starts saying my lines it will snap me out of that.

On top of that it would be a bit weird to first have to read the line I want to speak, click it then hear it spoken and then get an answer.

[Lord Phoebus]

I don't like voice acting in RPGs for the most part. I think it takes away too many resources from the writting and gameplay itself. You don't get those paragraph long responses or all the responses you would get with no voice acting, even it's only the NPCs who are voiced. There's a lot of flexibility given up when they try to set things up so that the conversation always returns to 2 or 3 options, or set it up so that the NPC gives the same answer regardless of question posed, so that they can reduce the amount of voice acting they have to pay for.



Heck, if you read the responses instead of listening to them, this game is about half as long.

[Camthalon]

Never felt detached while playing Mass Effect. *shrugs*

[Lotion Soronarr]

When I read the thread title I take it to mean a NPC telling the PC to shut up. Wouldn't mind seeing that either

[Mlai00]

@ "Voiced PC breaks me out of immersion":

For me it's the opposite. I cannot identify with someone with the physical presence of a wax dummy. A PC who is emotionless and voiceless has no connection to me.

Solid Snake had tons of dialogue. Did I ever feel "omg he's talking, I don't identify with him anymore!" Um no, I adored Snake.

Role-playing, for me, is the same as identifying with the experiences of the main character in a movie or book. That person onscreen obviously doesn't sound or look like you. Yet, it's the very fact that he's a good actor, or written with deep personality, that helps you identify with him. We always complain about "flat 2D characters" in a movie or book. Same thing here.



@ Realistic cost-effective possibility:

Accounting for cost... keep the PC silent during the branching dialogues. But allow him to speak with your chosen voice during the few cutscenes that are in the game.

Also, during the dialogues, there are a few instances when the camera is actually on the PC. This is a chance for his face to show some emotion, and for him to make a short verbal response such as a laugh, or a grunt, or whatever. Not much work, but significantly increases his presence.

[Vicious]

In a game where everything is voiced, I definetly prefer the PC to be voiced as well.

Not being voiced just loses a dimension... most games have a voiced PC and the game is just fine.

I would have been completely fine playing ALISTAIR and the PC NOT EXISTING AT ALL. Even if it used the Mass Effect model, who could say no to playing a hero voiced by Steve Valentine?


Like i said, most games these days have the PC voiced... works out fine.

Modifié par Vicious, 03 février 2010 - 11:39 .

[_Infiltrator]

If the PC speaks out than that immediately means you can't select his voice from the customization (no sane company would undergo recordings for, what, 5-6 voices per race x 2 genders?).



That immediately creates the problem - you can't have the same voice for the human and the dwarf, or elf. It simply doesn't work. In Mass Effect you play Shepard, but if you had the option to play as a Salarian, Krogan etc., let me tell you right now that the main character would DEFINITELY be mute.



So as long as racial customization exists, the main guy will be mute during conversations, there's no other way around it.

[Curlain]

I like that the PC being mute, to cover all the origins correctly (together with two genders per each origins) you will likely require at least 12-14 voice actors (since mage origins you can be either a human or elf) to give proper feel and credit to the very different backgrounds you can play. Even those of the same race but different origins would really need different voice actors due to the origins very different background in order to truly convey the feel of that background (so a human mage should sound different from a human noble, a Dalish elf from a mage or city elf, a noble dwarf from a duster etc). Anything less then this would greatly restrict the feel of uniqueness to each origin, and therefore to your created character, so in order to properly voice DA would require a massive investment in resources for little gain, when you can use your imagination to create your own unique voice for your character (one of the best reasons I like silent PCs, I know what my PC sounds like, I don't want it forced on me by a actor).

Also secondly, when I played Mass Effect or The Witcher, was that sometimes both characters would say or express something that was in complete contrast to the way I would have had the character express or say it. It created a feeling of detachment from them, as it felt more that it was the actor actually role-playing the character while I (the player) was more directing them. This wasn't such a bad thing as in both these games the characters were pre-determined, so so they were always going to be Shepard or Geralt no matter what, that is who they are, with some variation through convo and choice options aside, they remain essentially as they were conceived by their creators.

But with DA, where you have your own character who you craft, this would be a far bigger issue

Modifié par Curlain, 03 février 2010 - 12:06 .

[FictionalBreger]

Mlai00 wrote...

@ "Voiced PC breaks me out of immersion":
For me it's the opposite. I cannot identify with someone with the physical presence of a wax dummy. A PC who is emotionless and voiceless has no connection to me.
Solid Snake had tons of dialogue. Did I ever feel "omg he's talking, I don't identify with him anymore!" Um no, I adored Snake.
Role-playing, for me, is the same as identifying with the experiences of the main character in a movie or book. That person onscreen obviously doesn't sound or look like you. Yet, it's the very fact that he's a good actor, or written with deep personality, that helps you identify with him. We always complain about "flat 2D characters" in a movie or book. Same thing here.

While I'm sure Metal Gear Solid is a good game (never played any of them), comparing Solid Snake, a character you can change nothing about in terms of appearance or personality (That last part is only guessing, so don't kill me if I'm wrong), to the nameless protagonist the Warden isn't a fair one.
Solid Snake has a name and a face people relate to, a name mentioned in the game.
What's the Warden's name? Oh, right, the Warden. "Hi my name is Groobnol. A dwarf, now a Grey Warden."
What do people reply? "Oh, greetings Warden."
"No, call me Groobnol."
"As you wish. Warden."
"Aaargh!"
"Yes, Warden?"
"I give up..."
Essentially, your character has no face, or name. Only what you give him as a name, and that name probably won't be the same as everyone elses name for their Warden. And I won't say much more, because I cannot express what I mean in a coherent manner. Also, many others who have spoken against or not so much for voiced PC in Dragon Age has said what I mean, and better that I would have managed to do.
I like my PC as he is. I have a specific voice that I hear in my head when I read his lines in the game, and that voice might only be enjoyed by me, so I want to keep it that way.

That's not to say I don't like games with voiced PCs, but I don't feel like it would fit this game. But, this is all just an opinion.

[Duncan Mac Leod]

It's hard for a RPG to offer so many different voices, embedded into the storyline. Of course, VOs for the Player Character would be nice. Playing 'The Witcher' has been great fun! But 'The Witcher' is different as you have only ONE Character to play.

[Stompi]

I can live without a voiced PC.  In Dragon Age, it would take several voice actors, one for each race and gender. And don't forget that the game comes in different languages. While I like Shepard's voice in Mass Effect, many disagree. It would be even harder to find great voice actors for every origin and language.

As long as it doesn't hurt the game's length or even make the game more expensive and the quality of the voice-actors matches the rest of the game, it is a nice-to-have feature. Otherwise it's not helpful.

Modifié par Stompi, 03 février 2010 - 12:55 .

[urvashi]

I'm fine with the mute PC, I just wish we could see more facial expression during conversations & cut scenes. I hate that in most conversations, I'm looking at the back of my head the whole time.

In Jade Empire, I liked the way they would show your PC's facial expression before you chose a line, so you'd know before you picked it what the emotional intent was.I get caught in the "I meant that to be sarcastic but got taken seriously & lost relationship points" trap a lot in DA.

[Mlai00]

As said, plenty of games have voiced PCs, and they're just fine at RPG immersion.

I don't find it very helpful to visualize or identify with my character when he's mute and expressionless. I make up his personality inside my head, but that doesn't mean I enjoy it more than if he gets a modicum of personality as described in my previous post. I imagine his voice because I have no choice.

I think the tradition of mute PCs started with JRPGs. If it's one thing I hate about JRPGs (aside from metrosexual teen heroes), it's the start of that annoying concept that mute PCs are somehow more immersive.

[Langbein Rise]

After have played both DAO and ME2 it feels more right with the silent PC as I can imagine how I would have said it and what feelings to be put into the statement.

[DPSSOC]

Mlai00 wrote...

I think the tradition of mute PCs started with JRPGs. If it's one thing I hate about JRPGs (aside from metrosexual teen heroes), it's the start of that annoying concept that mute PCs are somehow more immersive.

I think the tradition of mute PCs started with tabletop gaming where the player supplied the voice, and dialogue, of the character.  It was brought into video and computer RPG's when the technology wasn't there to do adequate lypsyncing and really there's only so much audio you can fit on early cartridge and floppy disc games.  Mute PC's are as old as Western Roleplaying, we created the beast and blaming it on the Japanese is just wrong.  You can however blame them for the metro-teen heroes, ridiculously oversized weapons, and games with a 24 hour run time where you control it for about 12 minutes.

As I've said I can go either way but I recognize the sacrifices that need to be made either way.  Voiced you need to limit dialogue options, even the most dedicated actor can only record so many lines in so many ways before they say "Screw it I'm going home".  Mute you get more dialogue options but limit the expressiveness of the PC.  Now someone mentioned having mute dialogue throughout the gameplay and voiced durring the cutscenes.  This wouldn't be a bad idea but then you'd have both camps complaining about the Voiced/Mute nature of the PC.  Mute supporters will complain about the voiced cutscenes and Voice supporters will complain about the mute gameplay.  The sad fact is there's just no way to please everybody.

[Maferath]

I have no problem with my PCs not being voiced, however the constantly dead expression they tend to display, when all the other characters are so alive, is definitely unsettling.

Modifié par Maferath, 03 février 2010 - 01:53 .

[Euteras]

I'm fine with the game the way it is but I have seen it in other games. The character creator has 5 voice style choices already built into it.

SuperMedbh wrote...
How about simply being able to toggle it off in the options? Like persistent gore.

Nothing adding a checkbox in the options wouldn't fix.
 
With several different voices/styles or 'voice off' to choose from peoples immersion can be either enhanced OR at least unchanged. Your responses will be the same either way.
Plus I don't think the cost would be all that great. The dialogue has already been written. They would just need some voice actors to record it. If it doesn't fit on the disc make a second one. Discs are cheap, its making the files that might cost some money. Divide that cost up amongst enough people and its minimal. 

Modifié par Euteras, 03 février 2010 - 01:55 .