137 réponses à ce sujet

[Hugmejohnny]

Highdragonslayer wrote...

Rendar666 wrote...

traversc wrote...

/agree with OP.

Kinda off topic, but this is why District 9 was at LEAST 10x better than Avatar.

Really? REALLY? District 9 was the most dissapointing movie I've seen in ages! So over-hyped and so totally not worth even renting. "Fooking prawns!" every 2 seconds really didn't help and I actually laughed during the movie at the theatre.

Avatar, on the other hand, was amazing. Especially awesome in 3D.

U r teh lamez doods. Avatar r gud and disstrict nein is not vry gud in mi opnon. thats my opnion.

District 9= OMGZ TEH HUMENZ R TEH EVILZ CUZ THEY ARE RASIST 

Avatar= OMGZ TEH HUMENZ R TEH EVILZ CUZ THEY KILL DA TREES!

I learned a lesson from those movies. If your white and a male theres at least a one in four chance you'll need to save an alien race on day, preferibly one easily comperable to minorities in America. If only navtive americans realised they needed to turn to the ones killing them for savior. Then they may still be around.

[Ultron_ver2.0]

traversc wrote...


Kinda off topic, but this is why District 9 was at LEAST 10x better than Avatar.

so much fail in one sentence.

[Highdragonslayer]

Ultron_ver2.0 wrote...

traversc wrote...


Kinda off topic, but this is why District 9 was at LEAST 10x better than Avatar.

so much fail in one sentence.

I liked the setting and CG-I and the animal creatures of Avatar(that's one of the reasons why I love Mass Effect too lol) but the story and the plot just pissed me off.

These are my thoughts exactly on the movie.

http://thatguywithth...ews/15043-ep036

[IckyLicks]

I sort of cringed when I read this part of the article:

"Players of the award winning game are very happy with the game, except for one thing – how unpleasant it could be to look at."

Out of all the things to complain about it's about the graphics?  I mean, the graphics weren't stellar but it wasn't God awful. 

[Bibdy]

This is just silly. One doesn't preclude the other. The guys who do the writing aren't the same guys who optimise the engine.

[wanderon]

Bibdy wrote...

This is just silly. One doesn't preclude the other. The guys who do the writing aren't the same guys who optimise the engine.

No but any of them that are assigned work on the project must be paid out of the project budget.

Those who are NOT assigned work are not paid out of the project budget and thus if you minimize the plan for tweaking graphics and maximize the plan for content/characters/ other stuff you get more content and less shinys and vice versa.

[Bibdy]

And so we're assuming that the same few writers who worked on DA:O are going to write worse, because they're paid less? Or are they just going to fire a couple of them because they don't fit into the budget? How does this work, exactly?

[SheffSteel]

Like I said, you cannot treat staffing levels like sea level.
Do not expect talented developers to roll in and out on a schedule like the tide.

Engine programmers aren't going to work on gameplay, by and large*. Getting them to concentrate on improving the graphics might make another technical area suffer (whisper it: multiplayer, f'rinstance). Of course, 3D artists could be told to either work on overhauling the existing models or making new ones (e.g. new enemy creatures). Designers will only do design work though.

*Notwithstanding what the gentleman sitting behind me is currently doing

Modifié par SheffSteel, 03 février 2010 - 07:24 .

[AlanC9]

Highdragonslayer wrote...
    Maybe it isn't the grammar that pisses me off but it's the fact that people are talking down to console users. Not everyone can afford a good computer for games.

That's a fallacy. You can play computer games just fine with a pretty cheap rig, as long as you don't expect to turn up graphics to max.

I only build/upgrade a  PC when the one I have won't deliver acceptable performance on something I want to play. In this rig's case it was NWN2. Dual-core Athlon+ new mobo, x1650 graphics card, 2 GB RAM... cost me maybe $300 back then. (Edit: I think that includes an OEM copy of WinXP, since until then I was using  Win98.) I get some of that back right away because PC games always cost less than console games. So far I have no reason to upgrade, since DA  runs just fine. Well, performance is fine, anyway -- I am having a compatibility issue.

Sure, I'll have to upgrade someday. But there will be a new XBox someday too.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 février 2010 - 07:36 .

[AlanC9]

Bibdy wrote...

And so we're assuming that the same few writers who worked on DA:O are going to write worse, because they're paid less? Or are they just going to fire a couple of them because they don't fit into the budget? How does this work, exactly?

If they cut the writing budget they transfer some writers to a different project. ME3, for instance.

[Bibdy]

AlanC9 wrote...

If they cut the writing budget they transfer some writers to a different project. ME3, for instance.

You're assuming the only way to pay for engine updates is by redirection of writers, which is a little presumptuous isn't it? There's all kinds of elements that would go into the budget which could be tweaked.

They could just be upping the budget and getting some of those guys who worked on the ME3 engine to improve the DA:O one (assuming they're not using the same one) since those guys won't be needed to work on the ME3 engine because ME2's is good enough for ME3.

Why does an improvement have to mean sacrifices? And are we really THAT paranoid around here that we instantly think of the absolute worst-case scenario, where the game looks totally fantastic, but Alistair jumps around spouting 'lol pwned'?

A little bit less chatter in the dialogue would be a bit of an improvement in some places...

[AlanC9]

Bibdy wrote...
You're assuming the only way to pay for engine updates is by redirection of writers, which is a little presumptuous isn't it?

I didn't assume any such thing. You asked how redirecting resources out of writing would work. I told you.

Whether they would ever feel the need to do that depends on all sorts of factors that neither one of us can possibly be aware of. But if you want to pretend that such decisions do not always involve some sort of trade-off, feel free.

[Bibdy]

AlanC9 wrote...

Bibdy wrote...
You're assuming the only way to pay for engine updates is by redirection of writers, which is a little presumptuous isn't it?

I didn't assume any such thing. You asked how redirecting resources out of writing would work. I told you.

Whether they would ever feel the need to do that depends on all sorts of factors that neither one of us can possibly be aware of. But if you want to pretend that such decisions do not always involve some sort of trade-off, feel free.

I'm not saying they don't, but I don't see the point in mindless speculation. This thread should really have more of a "Please don't trade writing and story depth for engine upgrades!" feel to it. Instead it feels like people are shrieking "Curse you, Bioware for compromising yourselves for the sake of pretty lights! Damn you to heeeeeeck!".

Which is all-around presumptuous, baseless and kinda stupid.

[Dlokir]

The point is PC graphics are fine enough and performance are excellent so waste money on that is a total shame. The current load of an area can be too long already, heavier graphics will hardly improve that.

[Sresla]

Whenever I see "improving graphics" I think how atrocious my character looked after EverQuest did the same thing. I liked how my Wood Elf looked before and never turned on the "new graphics" until the game forced me to do so and it's part of the reason the game lost its appeal to me. You can grow pretty attached to your avatar (and companions) and I'd be disappointed if their looks were changed. Background scenery is a different thing and I'd be okay with changes in that department.

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

i don't have a problem with better graphics, so long as it doesn't impact gameplay or the role playing options.

what i would like to see- and given the dao setup thats difficult, would be character voice acting.

i mean- hire a bunch of out of work struggling freaking actors to do the main char voice acting, i'm sure they would be ahppey as hell do read a few lines for $100 each to help pay thier rent that month and they have something to put on thier resume'.

[Metallicka]

I don't understand so many people's complaits about the graphics, I play on 360, I use HDMI and play at 1080p and I thought the graphics were fairly decent, only close ups of very specific things did I notice a lack of detail. Also for the record I'm 31 so please can the kiddie comments about consoles, I grew up with the original NES and have always been more comfortable with a controller than a keyboard and mouse.



I think they can improve the graphics without cutting quality or game time, if you need proof, how about The Elder Scrolls or Final Fantasy series for reference points? If DA2 is anywhere near as good as DA:O, I'll preorder as soon as it's announced as I've already done regarding DA:O-A.

[pinkfluffiesrock]

I'm with Metallicka on the console games. lol we had to blow on our games to get them to work. In fact, one of my favorite games of all times (Zelda) has some of the worst graphics ever, but it's fantaaaastic. I think over the years, the focus of games has gone more from creating a great story to creating a visual masterpiece. I agree with the author of this thread, completely. If Bioware can pull off spectacular DA2 graphics without sacrificing bits of the story, that would be amazing!'

As far as ****ing about the graphics on DA? It's a great game, with or without mindblowing graphics... it's also already a done deal, so ****ing about it constantly isn't going to do any good. Besides... I'm not sure if many people understand the complexity of something as seemingly simple as graphic art. With that being said, I think the two major factors are time and budget... kudos to Bioware for putting visuals in last place.  The game exceeds everything  else.

Modifié par pinkfluffiesrock, 03 février 2010 - 10:15 .

[Ultron_ver2.0]

Metallicka wrote...

I don't understand so many people's complaits about the graphics, I play on 360, I use HDMI and play at 1080p and I thought the graphics were fairly decent for a game released in 2005.

fixed

[Dragon Age1103]

traversc wrote...

/agree with OP.

Kinda off topic, but this is why District 9 was at LEAST 10x better than Avatar.

thanks. nice example of what i mean. I loved Avatar it is a great film but District 9 blew me away a lot more!

  Wow, I can't believe how many ppl responded to a little paranoid rant. Haha. I'm gonna try & respond to a lot of you b/c I hate making a thread without responding to most who post but give me a few minutes...a lot of reading. haha!

[Dragon Age1103]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Am I alone in thinking the graphics are fairly good in DA? Yes, the individual characters aren't super high polygon (you can see that in the closeups), but there are panoramas that look just like paintings.

I've played Crysis a bit (well, couldn't get past the tutorial level. I am so not a gamer ) and have even worked with CryEngine2 as a Blue Mars developer, and you know, for all the wonder of that game engine, at the end of the day it depends on what you do with it. Crysis struck me as area after area of jungle, realistically detailed, sure, but not particularly engaging. Compare that to entering the ruined temple outside of Haven or the towers of Ostagar.

For the record, I'm on the PC, running 6 gig RAM with a NVIDIA GTX285 card (I do 3D modeling). YMMV, as they say. But really, I think the DA:O team did a darned good job with the engine they had, and if the sequel is even better, I'd be thrilled.

  
    I really enjoyed the visuals on Crysis & the story wasn't too bad for a shooter but I agree since the environment felt very limited. I played through the entire game & only say thick jungle & ice but beautiful thick jungle & ice! lol. Anyways my point of the entire thread being graphics do not make a game at all or even break a game but usually art style. Example I LOVE star wars, Kotor is tied with DA:O for best game of all time in my heart but the Old Republic looks terrible. No matter how brilliant the gameplay is or how many of my friends get into there is a high chance I'll never get into simply b/c I can not stand the art style. This is typical for me when it comes to MMO's though. I only enjoyed Guild Wars & Age of Conan b/c everything else looks like the art style & graphics were designed for a 6 year old.
       Point being 1 aspect can not hold a game together for me. Crysis had fun gameplay & amazing(legendary) grpahics but most of my friends could not run it, there was little story, & little variety in weapons compared to most shooters. DA:O offers (me personally) amazing tactical gameplay that keeps me thinking, fun & interactive core gameplay mechanics, beautiful character models & a well thought out art style that fits the theme perfectly, lots of content from weapons, armor, charcters, level variety, to tons of plot!
   I'm probably going to sound like a rambling idiot by the end of this! haha b/c i'm rushing to meet friends on gears & answer a lot fo you that took the time to post in my thread!!!

[Dragon Age1103]

rogue1983 wrote...

I doubt most console owners are under the age of 16 so op you need to get off your elitist high horse nuff said.

  haha I love people that get so upset so easily. If I take a loot around lets say my family & count how many people have 360's, count all the voices I hear on xbox live & the time of day. If we jump on gears, Halo 3, Battlefield, Forza 3, ro a few other games between 9am-5pm majority(75% or higher) of the population will be between the ages of 5,6,7-early 20's. Now get on 8pm or after play until 5am only 10-15% of the people we meet will sound 15 or under. Most kids in my family or my friends family have a 360. PC games can be a lot more challenging to install & get running properly so fact is that yes a large majority of console users are little kids b/c here is a fact of life kids like fun things like video games. I can assure you there will never be a fair study to prove one way or the other but from my personal experience in the US taking into account all the kids i know & the voices i hear over xbl easily for a majoirty of the day 45%-65% or ever more of the voice I hear are under the age of 18 easily. It's not random facts I'm pulling out b/c I have no hard facts just a lot of hours logged on my PC & xbox live. PLus simple observation of who owns whata round me & what age they are. It is pure speculation either way but when i say most I mean it could be as little as %51 of consoles gamers are young kids but either way %51 is a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I must say it is nice fo you though to not consider anything & jsut simpley assume you're 100% correct without any proof or experience mentioned. So if you have anything to say how about you actually add to the conversation instead of just throwing some random sentence out there & sounding like a fool. Either way it is all speculation but from my personal experience I can say for a fact moajority of my encounters on xbl are under 16 for 3/4 of the day. In my head I can see 40-60% of gamers being 5-17 & 35% or more being 18-29 then 30's & up making the smaller portion but all just estimate from my personal experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 I love it up here on my horsey!!!

[Dragon Age1103]

spock06 wrote...

DA has pretty terrible graphics on the 360. Its not necessary to have graphics as good as ME, but a lot of DA looked worse than KoTOR, and there's not THAT much content. Fallout 3 and Oblivion had a lot more content and outstanding graphics (I don't like either of them much, but they were HUGE games)

  I think you have the word content & the ability to freely roam mixed up. Story wise Kotor, kotor 2, ME 1&2, & DA:O all have easily 10x the content of oblivion or fall out 3. Oblivion & fallout 3 give you free roam in an open sandbox game so you spend a lot of time doing nothing just walking from one point to the next if you took that out of total hours logger you'd probably be missing 1/5 of your time. Point being weapons, armor, items, characters, & side quests DA:O easily has twice as much if not even way more than fallout 3 or oblivion(both greta games by the way just oblivion had a junk plot).
   Those two games were made to feel huge they had a different approach to RPG's than DA:O so you have to consider that b/c realistically you can only compare Oblivion with Fallout 3 not either with DA:O b/c they have different sub genres that put them on entirely different levels.

[Dragon Age1103]

TyroneTasty wrote...

While I understand the concern I've always been under the impression that the graphics department and level design are two different areas? Certainly the animators, who's sole job is to make things look good, take nothing away from the man designing a quest, just by attempting to push the quality of their teams work?

I'm not an expert on how game's are designed but...this does make sense doesn't it?

  Yes it does make perfect sense & from that statement I would assume graphics coul never directly impact the content of a game but sadly this is not true. The only to ever really break this rule was Crysis & look how much of a pain it was for a lot of people to run on older systems.

[Dragon Age1103]

Wishpig wrote...

TyroneTasty wrote...

Kevin Lynch wrote...
Imagine having no clipping issues, for example. Wouldn't people like to see that gone?

I would!

Say what you want about graphics, but clipping can, at least for me, tend to seriously ruin immersion, and isn't that we all enjoy about role playing games? 

Like I said before, I'm not a guy who cares much about graphics...

Of course that changes when the hair of my character pierces through the skull everytime they move their head... or when you can't put on a beard without it flicking on the sideburns where it meets hair. Clipping IS something that can pull me out of a game very very easily. A pet peeve.

   I don't think clipping an pull me out of teh game as easily as you guys but I admit it is an issue in DA:O & it can being really annoying especially for someone like me b/c once i notice something i tend to focus on it for a bit until i finally put it in the back of my mind later on.