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ME3 needs to cater to the HARDCORE FANS not the Casual Mass market like ME2.


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#1
Ryzinn

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Oh I know you bioware. You thought "Hey, lets sell out and make a Halo Esque game like everyone else. Cliffy B and his team at epic can do it, why cant we? We'll make tons of moneys lololololol".

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying you guys went completely over the top with your "Lets turn ME into Halo" rampage. The dialogue for the most part was still pretty ****in, and at least you managed to do the Char Import pretty decently. But holy **** did you screw everything else up.

First of all, You took my RPG and made it into a cross between Gears and Halo. Lets look at the first game,

-Dozens of armors to choose from including the famed Collosus X armor
-Dozens of Weapons to choose from including Spectre Weapons
-Dozens of upgrades to choose from
-Branching skill trees
-60 lvls

Now lets look at ME2
-Maybe 12 different armor pieces to choose from. The number may not be entirely accurate but it's definitely less then what we saw in ME2. Not to mention Collosus X is no where to be found and Light, Medium and Heavy armors were done away with all together. On another note instead of providing armor for our allies they only get a spare costume.
-2 weapons of each type... Yay?
-Instead of Heat sink upgrades or Pollonium upgrades we get "Pistol damage 1/5" upgrades or something lame like that. I actually dont mind this as the upgrades were what I would always have too many of in my inventory which brings me to another point that we'll get to later.
-A horrible skill tree system with maybe 3 skills at the most to choose from. The first game did it so much better but hey, we gotta cater to the retards dont we bioware? Who cares about the fans, they'll get over it.
-30 lvls (Cut in half from the previous game, much like everyting else no?)

I understand that these arent entirely what "Makes an RPG" but lets face it people, in just about every Bioware RPG (Most notably ME1, KOTOR, Dragon Age, etc etc etc) theres an equipment management screen, theres branching sometimes insane skill trees, and tons of loot to discover. It is a STAPLE among Bioware RPGs.

ME2 half-assed it on this. You cant deny it, its a fact and its bull ****.  I understand Bioware took a lot of flack for this but it wasnt because the system was old or outdated it was becuase Bioware cant seem to figure out how to make it fast and easy to do without dumbing everything down for 12 year old halo fans. We complained about the 32094832048932 upgrades in our inventory that we had to go and delete 1 by 1 by 1 over and over until we got rid of all of them. That was the only annoying part the system presented us in ME1. Instead of fixing it they scrapped it.


Then you come to the sidequests and exploration. Bioware, for the most part, you fixed this but unfortunately you made things once again, way to linear and way too easy for the 12 year old halo fans. Side quest missions almost constantly consist of a very small area consisting of a straight and narrow path with a few enemies tossed at you. Once again, I understand you guys gotta appeal to the 12 year old halo fans who get lost soo easily  in a complex game such as ME2 (pft) but understand, space exploration should atleast have some REAL exploration thrown in somewhere.

Not to mention the main areas of the game (Zakeera ward, Omega, and Illium) are all TINY and boring. The presidium in ME1 + the wards were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay bigger then any of the locations presented in ME2. Hell, Noveria had a bigger set up then Omega. When I picutre the presidium or a ward I picture a giant sprawling city that I should be able to explore every nook and cranny of. Not a closed off 2 story building in the ward. I understand you dont have the time to make anything as big as say what we see in games like Oblivion but you could atleast make it big enough to house more then just a few shops, a bar, and a small warehouse. Atleast give us 5 different locations in the ward that are as big as what Zakeera presented us in ME2.

Going back to the side quests, in ME1 the sidequests and planets were huge and you were basically just tossed into these worlds with no sense of where to go or what to do. You had to figure it out for yourself. ME2 doesnt give you that sense and instead holds your hand like you're a retard whose never played an RPG before. Now granted, ME1 sidequests and planets were rather dull and copy/pasted but atleast you wernet having your hand heald and told where to go. No point A to point B Bull sh**.


And atleast finding resources was a little bit more interesting in ME1. Do they bring it back? No , instead we get AN ABSOLUTELY AWFUL SCANNING MINI GAME. It feels like a watered down Flash Iphone game that has no place in the next generation of gaming. Its slow, its tedious, and its annoying. What retard on your staff thought this was a good idea? Probably the same retard who thought ME1's side quests and planets should consist of the same copy and pasted BS over and over. ID RATHER DRIVE THE MAKO THEN HAVE TO PLAY THIS STUPID GAME OVER AND OVER. You guys need to scrap it. Hell, I remember pointing it out when it was first unveiled and saying it was gonna be stupid. Just like the fuel system.

The loyalty system is also completely dumbed down and linear.
Step 1: Talk to squad mate
Step 2: Do there quest (atleast, if nothing else the char quests were interesting)
Step 3: Loyalty gained lolololol nj you r teh winner

Dragon Quest did it better. Of course Dragon Quest appeals to the hardcore fans, unlike ME2. Atleast someone in Bioware knows what Bioware is all about.

All that said, ME2 was enjoyable but FAR from what I was expecting or what I wanted out of it. Bioware promised us "Empire Strikes back". Instead I got "The Godfather Part 3".

Bioware didnt completely ignore us but they didnt completely care about us either. Instead they tried to appeal to the mass market and ultimately, it hurt my trust in the franchise and bioware in general. It makes me question what their motives are, making tons of moneys or pleasing there die hard fans. With ME2 it feels like they tried to cover up their greed by throwing in a few things to please the hardcore fans but for the most part trying to sell out and appeal to everybody.

I'm pleading with you bioware, ME3 needs to cater exclusively to the hardcore. This means that there should be no more dumbed down one way side quests, No more 3 skills to choose from skill trees, no more scanning for resources, no more linear loyalty systems, no more dumbed down inventory/loot systems, No more small closed off areas to explore and for f***s sake get rid of that generic a**hole grunt and GIVE ME MY WREX BACK. Grunt is in no way a good replacement for Wrex. He doesnt even come close.


Fanboys, you can rip me a new **** all you like, but I'm not the only one complaining about these issues. Credibility is judged by numbers not by fanboys.

cheers.

Modifié par Ryzinn, 02 février 2010 - 08:17 .


#2
Treekodar

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At least make a tl;dr version.

#3
WillieStyle

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-Dozens of Weapons to choose from including Spectre Weapons




I stopped reading right there.

#4
Phoenixblight

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More money with General public > Small group of "hardcore" fans

#5
Khavos

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Ryzinn wrote...

Fanboys, you can rip me a new **** all you like, but I'm not the only one complaining about these issues. Credibility is judged by numbers not by fanboys.


You mean like sales numbers?  'Cause I think Bioware has plenty of credibility, if that's the case.

I wish a lot were different about ME2, but it's not going to happen with ME3.  Bioware's not going to deliberately limit their demographic by returning to hardcore RPGs, especially not with EA cracking the whip now.

The golden age of those types of games is long since gone.  More people play on consoles than on PCs, meaning that's the market every big game developer's going to shoot for - meaning the game has to be shallow enough to function on a console. 

#6
Guest_Shavon_*

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I agre, but the game is still awesome, fun. The dumbing down sucked, but the story is still great. I hope they cater to us more in ME3, because by then, people who really want to play a third in a trilogy will have gone through both games, and will either finish it or not. It would make sense to plan for the diehard fans in me3 instead of pissing them off again

#7
Twitchmonkey

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The funny thing is that a lot of longtime RPG fans (myself included) really seem to like ME2 and half the people that are calling it dumbed down can't spell properly or put together a cohesive sentence, so I'm not really sure it is a casual vs hardcore problem as much as it is is traditionalist vs progressive issue. That's not to say the OP can't put together a sentence, I said half, not all.



If you miss the traditional RPG elements then fine, but I'm not sure the casual vs hardcore argument holds up.

#8
Ryzinn

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Khavos wrote...

Ryzinn wrote...

Fanboys, you can rip me a new **** all you like, but I'm not the only one complaining about these issues. Credibility is judged by numbers not by fanboys.


You mean like sales numbers?  'Cause I think Bioware has plenty of credibility, if that's the case.

I wish a lot were different about ME2, but it's not going to happen with ME3.  Bioware's not going to deliberately limit their demographic by returning to hardcore RPGs, especially not with EA cracking the whip now.

The golden age of those types of games is long since gone.  More people play on consoles than on PCs, meaning that's the market every big game developer's going to shoot for - meaning the game has to be shallow enough to function on a console. 


Of course they're gonna have sales numbers, Bioware sold out which was one of my main points.

Had you read the topic...

I know its TL:DR but it shouldnt have to be. Thats how much BS bioware crammed into ME2.

#9
tommythetomcat

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Game is fun, I love ME1 and i love ME2.



Apparently most people just loved playing with their inventory and pretending like they had a lot of weapons and armors to "choose" from when in reality you got specter weapons and never changed them and "Colossus" armor and never changed it. At least with ME2 there are reason you may prefer a weapon over another.



the new modding system for weapons is debatable though.

#10
Stonetwister

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The original poster is on crack. This is a perfect game and the only way to improve it would be for it to be twice as long. The reviewers loved it, nearly everyone except a few people on crack loved it, and I loved it. With the exception of mining that seemed to take way too long, everything about the first game was improved in the second. I hope to god ME3 is exactly like ME2, except with a new story.
It is unbelievable that no matter how good of a product you put out there are still people that will whine and complain because it wasn't exactly what THEY WANTED.  Bioware could send you a thousand dollars in the mail and you would whine because it wasn't two thousand. 

Modifié par Stonetwister, 02 février 2010 - 08:21 .


#11
Ryzinn

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Twitchmonkey wrote...

The funny thing is that a lot of longtime RPG fans (myself included) really seem to like ME2 and half the people that are calling it dumbed down can't spell properly or put together a cohesive sentence, so I'm not really sure it is a casual vs hardcore problem as much as it is is traditionalist vs progressive issue. That's not to say the OP can't put together a sentence, I said half, not all.

If you miss the traditional RPG elements then fine, but I'm not sure the casual vs hardcore argument holds up.


I typed it up in a hurry so gramatical issues are to be expected. (I have to get to class in about 20 minutes).

#12
Akimb0

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Khavos wrote...

Ryzinn wrote...

Fanboys, you can rip me a new **** all you like, but I'm not the only one complaining about these issues. Credibility is judged by numbers not by fanboys.


You mean like sales numbers?  'Cause I think Bioware has plenty of credibility, if that's the case.

I wish a lot were different about ME2, but it's not going to happen with ME3.  Bioware's not going to deliberately limit their demographic by returning to hardcore RPGs, especially not with EA cracking the whip now.

The golden age of those types of games is long since gone.  More people play on consoles than on PCs, meaning that's the market every big game developer's going to shoot for - meaning the game has to be shallow enough to function on a console. 


This. Simple games for simple people = money for Bioware.

I appreciate that you'd like to see ME3 be a good game OP. However it's just not going to happen if the trend of dumbing things down (or 'streamlining' as the fanboys like to say) continues. Which it will. I said it somewhere else, but will repeat it here:

By the time we get to ME3 or ME4 the game will be a simple straight corridor, with a black and white moral choice at set intervals. There wont be combat, because some people don't like it. There wont be relationships either. Heck, they may as well make it a text adventure. At least I wont have to deal with the ugly console graphics then.

Modifié par Akimb0, 02 février 2010 - 08:23 .


#13
haberman13

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100% agree with the OP

Dumbed down for people who don't even appreciate this kind of game.

My "tardo" friends who like COD/Halo etc. don't like ME2, it has too much story and dialogue, yet this game was made for them... but they dont want it. 

Strange

#14
Ryzinn

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and most of you arent even reading the post to begin with. Instead you're just skimming through it and saying "ME2 is the best game ever lolololol"



God I hate you guys.

#15
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*

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If a gaming company wants to be successful, the demographic you DONT cater to is the hardcore.

#16
RurouniSaiya-jin

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Why would they cater to the hardcore fans if the Mass Effect series is a supposed to be a more casual RPG intended to bring in more casuals into the genre? I think that would just ruin what they hoped to accomplish with the series in the first place.

#17
Guest_Ryuuichi009_*

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We need a damn sticky thread.



OP I actually think you have some points but still...



SEARCH FUNCTION DAMNIT. >_<

#18
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*

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haberman13 wrote...

100% agree with the OP

Dumbed down for people who don't even appreciate this kind of game.

My "tardo" friends who like COD/Halo etc. don't like ME2, it has too much story and dialogue, yet this game was made for them... but they dont want it. 

Strange


When you say "dumbed down" you imply that ME1 took a semblence of intelligence to begin with.

#19
Stonetwister

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Ryzinn wrote...

and most of you arent even reading the post to begin with. Instead you're just skimming through it and saying "ME2 is the best game ever lolololol"

God I hate you guys.


Because it is.

#20
Ryzinn

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haberman13 wrote...

100% agree with the OP

Dumbed down for people who don't even appreciate this kind of game.

My "tardo" friends who like COD/Halo etc. don't like ME2, it has too much story and dialogue, yet this game was made for them... but they dont want it. 

Strange


A small group of friends (and trust me, I know its small) isnt an accurate representation of the market.

good day sir.

#21
Clumsy Ninja

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Wall O' Text!

#22
Ryzinn

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Stonetwister wrote...

Ryzinn wrote...

and most of you arent even reading the post to begin with. Instead you're just skimming through it and saying "ME2 is the best game ever lolololol"

God I hate you guys.


Because it is.


Idiot.

#23
Khavos

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Ryzinn wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Ryzinn wrote...

Fanboys, you can rip me a new **** all you like, but I'm not the only one complaining about these issues. Credibility is judged by numbers not by fanboys.


You mean like sales numbers?  'Cause I think Bioware has plenty of credibility, if that's the case.

I wish a lot were different about ME2, but it's not going to happen with ME3.  Bioware's not going to deliberately limit their demographic by returning to hardcore RPGs, especially not with EA cracking the whip now.

The golden age of those types of games is long since gone.  More people play on consoles than on PCs, meaning that's the market every big game developer's going to shoot for - meaning the game has to be shallow enough to function on a console. 


Of course they're gonna have sales numbers, Bioware sold out which was one of my main points.

Had you read the topic...

I know its TL:DR but it shouldnt have to be. Thats how much BS bioware crammed into ME2.


I read the topic.  I found the bit about DA:O appealing to the hardcore fans particularly amusing.

Yes, Bioware sold out.  And yes, they're dumbing their games down to appeal to a wider audience.  They are making more money as a result.

What, precisely, is the upside to going back to hardcore RPGs for them?  The answer, of course, is that there isn't one.  They're not going to intentionally make less money for something as nebulous as credibility.  If Gears of War with conversation options sells, that's what they'll make. 

#24
Placebo_obecalP

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Khavos wrote...

meaning the game has to be shallow enough to function on a console. 


That's a fallacy IMO, consoles can handle complex games, it simply needs developers with the ability to create complex games and publishers with the courage and ambition to back developers in such ventures.

#25
Kalfear

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WillieStyle wrote...



-Dozens of Weapons to choose from including Spectre Weapons


I stopped reading right there.


To big of words for you to understand?

Agree with OP!

-bring back drops of weapon and armor and credits from kills and lockers
-KotOR, JE, ME1,DA:O influence system were you influence your group mates before they give you loyalty quest
-casual conversations between squad mates in non combat areas
-more cause and effect between squadmates (LEgion tells you about Geth, Tali reacts when you speak to her)
-More areas. I WANTED to revisit the known Citidel places, not just the ambasador room and 4 levels I never heard of. I wanted to revisit Noveria strores at minumum

Or to make it shorter so people like Wille can keep reading, BRING BACK THE IMMERSION AND RPG ELEMENTS OF GAME

Placebo_obecalP wrote...

Khavos wrote...

meaning the game has to be shallow enough to function on a console. 


That's a fallacy IMO, consoles can handle complex games, it simply needs developers with the ability to create complex games and publishers with the courage and ambition to back developers in such ventures.


ME1 and DA:O worked fine on my 360, whats the issue? Lost Odysee with 4 disks worked fine on my 360

Modifié par Kalfear, 02 février 2010 - 08:26 .