188 réponses à ce sujet

[Akimb0]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...



We need a damn sticky thread.

OP I actually think you have some points but still...

SEARCH FUNCTION DAMNIT. >_<

Heres a hint for people who still don't get it:

THERE

IS

NO

SEARCH

FUNCTION.


He's entitled to post his view on the game. If you don't like it just gtfo this thread. Half the posts alredy are fanboys just spamming his thread because they can't form counter arguements to the points he's expressed.

[obie191970]

Ryzinn wrote...

-Dozens of armors to choose from including the famed Collosus X armor
-Dozens of Weapons to choose from including Spectre Weapons
-Dozens of upgrades to choose from
-Branching skill trees
-60 lvls

This only gave you the illusion of choice.  ME1 as an RPG - It wasn't a very good one.  It was however, a fantastic game in the same way that ME2 is a fantastic game.

[haberman13]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

haberman13 wrote...

100% agree with the OP

Dumbed down for people who don't even appreciate this kind of game.

My "tardo" friends who like COD/Halo etc. don't like ME2, it has too much story and dialogue, yet this game was made for them... but they dont want it. 

Strange

When you say "dumbed down" you imply that ME1 took a semblence of intelligence to begin with.

Ok, broad philosophical perspective:  very few games require intelligence....

...but, going from ME1 -> ME2 they have "dumbed" it down.  How can you disagree?

The same thing happened going from Morrowind -> Oblivion.  Did you play both?  If not I understand where your confusion comes from, but the example is poignant and applies to ME1/ME2.

The removal of systems integral to the game = dumbed down

Reason: mass appeal

Problem: ME2 still has too much dialogue to be appealing to the jack-o's that enjoy simple games.

Solution: remove all dialogue from ME3, provide a surface level corridor shooter.

[Ryzinn]

Khavos wrote...


What, precisely, is the upside to going back to hardcore RPGs for them?  The answer, of course, is that there isn't one.  They're not going to intentionally make less money for something as nebulous as credibility.  If Gears of War with conversation options sells, that's what they'll make. 

I understand this but its just sad... Thats all I'm really saying.

[Shipwr3K]

haberman13 wrote...

100% agree with the OP

Dumbed down for people who don't even appreciate this kind of game.

My "tardo" friends who like COD/Halo etc. don't like ME2, it has too much story and dialogue, yet this game was made for them... but they dont want it. 

Strange

i play cod. 

[Twitchmonkey]

Ryzinn wrote...

I typed it up in a hurry so gramatical issues are to be expected. (I have to get to class in about 20 minutes).

That wasn't what I meant to imply, you seem to be firing on all or most of your cylinders, it's just that many of the people that are opposed to this dumbing down don't appear to be any more intelligent than those they consider the game to have been dumbed down for, which leads me to believe that it isn't really an issue of the intelligence or maturity of the gamer whether he'll like the direction ME2 has been taken in. Nor do I believe it is an issue of dedication, as I and many other hardcore gamers and RPG fans do like ME2 and even appreciate some of its changes.

Again, I think it is an issue of whether you put value in the traditional systems associated with RPGs or simply require that an RPG allows you to to create your story via your choice and interactions, and everything else is up for debate. I'm in the later category. I feel like ME2 has for the most part eliminated and streamlined those things that take you away from getting immersed in the story and in your character and has kept the core of what an RPG should be.

[haberman13]

Ryzinn wrote...

Khavos wrote...


What, precisely, is the upside to going back to hardcore RPGs for them?  The answer, of course, is that there isn't one.  They're not going to intentionally make less money for something as nebulous as credibility.  If Gears of War with conversation options sells, that's what they'll make. 

I understand this but its just sad... Thats all I'm really saying.

Exactly, for those of us who like the Bioware formula and RPGs in general this is just SAD.

Oh well, SWTOR won't be on consoles, hopefully it maintains a semblence of the Bioware formula.

[Khavos]

Placebo_obecalP wrote...

Khavos wrote...

meaning the game has to be shallow enough to function on a console. 

That's a fallacy IMO, consoles can handle complex games, it simply needs developers with the ability to create complex games and publishers with the courage and ambition to back developers in such ventures.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I don't see it as correct.  The control scheme's limited, meaning the interface has to be limited.  That's the biggest restriction, currently.

There's also the demographics.

[XyA_DeathKnight]

haberman13 wrote...

100% agree with the OP

Dumbed down for people who don't even appreciate this kind of game.

My "tardo" friends who like COD/Halo etc. don't like ME2, it has too much story and dialogue, yet this game was made for them... but they dont want it. 

Strange

Agreed. I don't think I know even one person that got ME2 that wasn't already a fan of ME1.

ME2 is a good game, but it is no replacement for what BioWare should have done. ME3 needs to be: (ME1 + new story + updated graphics [not console-limited] + improved combat of ME2)

-DK

[haberman13]

Shipwr3K wrote...

haberman13 wrote...

100% agree with the OP

Dumbed down for people who don't even appreciate this kind of game.

My "tardo" friends who like COD/Halo etc. don't like ME2, it has too much story and dialogue, yet this game was made for them... but they dont want it. 

Strange

i play cod. 

You are a well balanced an intelligent guy.  I'm not speaking to you good sir.

[Solid N7]

mass effect 2 sold 2 000 000 in one week, the hardcore rpg like dragon age sold 394.508 in one week the first mass effect sold 394 757 in one week you said that bioware return to this hahahaha don´t make laugh, the old school rpg fanboys are minority here.

[Solid N7]

also the many people that like and buy the game don´t come to post in these forums

[Ryzinn]

Solid N7 wrote...

mass effect 2 sold 2 000 000 in one week, the hardcore rpg like dragon age sold 394.508 in one week the first mass effect sold 394 757 in one week you said that bioware return to this hahahaha don´t make laugh, the old school rpg fanboys are minority here.

<_<

[Khavos]

Kalfear wrote...

ME1 and DA:O worked fine on my 360, whats the issue? Lost Odysee with 4 disks worked fine on my 360

I wouldn't call either of them complex games, especially given that they were designed for the console market.  You can tell when playing them on the PC.  ME2's even worse in that regard.  Nineteen different functions mapped to the spacebar.  I may be exaggerating slightly.

[haberman13]

Solid N7 wrote...

mass effect 2 sold 2 000 000 in one week, the hardcore rpg like dragon age sold 394.508 in one week the first mass effect sold 394 757 in one week you said that bioware return to this hahahaha don´t make laugh, the old school rpg fanboys are minority here.

Analysis:  Gushing 10/10 reviews convinved people to get it... but will they buy ME3? 

I doubt it, anecdotally I have 2 friends that bought ME2 that haven't played more than 2 hours because of all the dialogue.

They want corridor shooters, not ME2.  They will most definitely not buy ME3.

[Placebo_obecalP]

Khavos wrote...

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I don't see it as correct.  The control scheme's limited, meaning the interface has to be limited.  That's the biggest restriction, currently.

There's also the demographics.

An interface doesn't need to be limited because you only have 15 buttons and two sticks, it simply needs to be well designed

Demographics? I'm a 37 year old male, been a gamer for 25+ years, work in the game development industry, would much rather game on the 360 than the PC, don't like silly dumbed down arcade games, that kind of demographic?

[Sailears]

Kalfear wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

-Dozens of Weapons to choose from including Spectre Weapons

I stopped reading right there.

To big of words for you to understand?

Agree with OP!

-bring back drops of weapon and armor and credits from kills and lockers
-KotOR, JE, ME1,DA:O influence system were you influence your group mates before they give you loyalty quest
-casual conversations between squad mates in non combat areas
-more cause and effect between squadmates (LEgion tells you about Geth, Tali reacts when you speak to her)
-More areas. I WANTED to revisit the known Citidel places, not just the ambasador room and 4 levels I never heard of. I wanted to revisit Noveria strores at minumum

Or to make it shorter so people like Wille can keep reading, BRING BACK THE IMMERSION AND RPG ELEMENTS OF GAME

100% agree. I do not like the 'Halo' feel of ME2.

[Jonnerz]

Ryzinn wrote...

and most of you arent even reading the post to begin with. Instead you're just skimming through it and saying "ME2 is the best game ever lolololol"

God I hate you guys.

You're looking at both the games through a biased perspective. You support the original without pausing to pinpoint it's major flaws: The lift sequences, the repetitive planets, the fact that earning 60 levels took several months on end... and you refuse to see anything positive in Mass Effect 2. How about the seemless gameplay, the improved combat? But you don't like the new combat. Why? Maybe it's not because it's torn from Gears of War or so fourth, but because it's more challenging?

ME2 isn't the 'best game ever.' Neither is the original. Both are excellent games, and both have flaws. Perhaps you should approach the topic with a more neutral attitude before shouting, 'It's dumbed down for retards!'

[haberman13]

Also, WTF is up with the quest complete reports?



I seriously almost fell out of my chair when I saw that the first time.

[Ryzinn]

Ok lets look at it this way. ME2 obviously sold extremely well. Obviously ME3 is gonna sell extremely well regardless of how the game plays or looks which is all the more reason why Bioware can easily please the Hardcore and still recieve the sales they desire.



Thus, and as I so eloquently put it in the topic title, ME3 needs to cater to the HARDCORE FANS. doing so isnt going to alienate the mass market who will buy anything with a good name to it. ME2 drew in teh audience bioware wants, now give em something to really wrap there head around like REAL skill trees, REAL loot, and REAL progression.

[spock06]

"Hardcore" RPGs are not fun games. Whats more engrossing?



Pressing an "attack" button and letting the game roll virtual dice so you can see one of three endless attack animations. Well at least that gives you time to ****** to anime chicks while you "play the game"



or



Actually having to challenge yourself somewhat to suceed in a fast based, real time combat environment with sweet explosions and biotic powers going off left and right.

[Nithrakis Arcanius]

Solid N7 wrote...

mass effect 2 sold 2 000 000 in one week, the hardcore rpg like dragon age sold 394.508 in one week the first mass effect sold 394 757 in one week you said that bioware return to this hahahaha don´t make laugh, the old school rpg fanboys are minority here.

I'm not in the ME2 hate camp but wouldn't the strong ME2 sales have more to do with the strength of the ME franchise coming off of a great first game? I'm of the opinion that ME1 sold ME2, not necessarily the fact that ME2 was streamlined (which I think was, overall, a net positive).

Having said that, I'm a big fan of both games.