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ME3 needs to cater to the HARDCORE FANS not the Casual Mass market like ME2.


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#101
77boy84

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-Dozens of armors to choose from including the famed Collosus X armor
-Dozens of Weapons to choose from including Spectre Weapons
-Dozens of upgrades to choose from
-Branching skill trees
-60 lvls


Lets be real ****ing honest here with this list.
-Dozens of armors that look identical in shape, with different colors
-A grand total of two or three actual weapon models to choose from, with dozens of minor stat variations (oh cool, this gun has a faster rate of fire and higher damage, too bad this is almost impossible to notice in the actual game!), and all of them are ignored as soon as you can get the spectre weapons
-Upgrades where pretty rad, not gonna lie
-I don't think you realize what "branching skill trees" are. ME1 skill trees don't branch out into other skills. That's just not true. They're all linear.
-60 levels are needed since every point you can put in a stat is a minor improvement, so you NEED 60 levels just so your character can feel like it's improving after 10-15 levels.

-Maybe
12 different armor pieces to choose from. The number may not be
entirely accurate but it's definitely less then what we saw in ME2. Not
to mention Collosus X is no where to be found and Light, Medium and
Heavy armors were done away with all together. On another note instead
of providing armor for our allies they only get a spare costume.


I'd rather have a few armor pieces, and the ability to customize my armor than having to pick an armor model that looks the same as all the other armor models with a different color scheme.

-2 weapons of each type... Yay?


You're ignoring the fact that each weapon in ME2 actually feels different, while the guns in ME1 did not. One rifle felt like all the other rifles, and usually looked the same too.

-A
horrible skill tree system with maybe 3 skills at the most to choose
from. The first game did it so much better but hey, we gotta cater to
the retards dont we bioware? Who cares about the fans, they'll get over
it.
-30 lvls (Cut in half from the previous game, much like everyting else no?)


My character has six skills. If you're going to insult people, and call them stupid and say bioware is catering to them, try to get your facts straight.

Also, there's 30 levels, yeah, but experience doesn't come from combat, so giving you sixty levels and a stat system like ME1's would have never worked.

But hey! You're smarter than all those dumb halo fans the system is meant for so obviously you already knew this and you're just intentionally getting it wrong. Either way, you're an ****.

I
understand that these arent entirely what "Makes an RPG" but lets face
it people, in just about every Bioware RPG (Most notably ME1, KOTOR,
Dragon Age, etc etc etc) theres an equipment management screen, theres
branching sometimes insane skill trees, and tons of loot to discover.
It is a STAPLE among Bioware RPGs.


ME1 had an awful equipment screen. You spent more time fiddling with armor and cleaning out the inventory than actually playing the game

Also, Dragon Age's skill tree was pretty lame. More often than not, when I leveled up I thought "Okay, which skill is the least ****ty?", whereas in ME2, I have to think "Okay, which skill is the most useful and needs to be leveled up first?"

Then
you come to the sidequests and exploration. Bioware, for the most part,
you fixed this but unfortunately you made things once again, way to
linear and way too easy for the 12 year old halo fans. Side quest
missions almost constantly consist of a very small area consisting of a
straight and narrow path with a few enemies tossed at you. Once again,
I understand you guys gotta appeal to the 12 year old halo fans who get
lost soo easily  in a complex game such as ME2 (pft) but understand,
space exploration should atleast have some REAL exploration thrown in
somewhere.


No, Bioware improved this completely. Exploration in ME1 was a joke, and you know what? This entire paragraph can be spun around right at ME1.

Side quests in ME1 where linear AS ****. I don't know what game you played, but most of ME1's side quests involved you dropping in the mako, driving in a straight line on a barren planet towards a little building and clearing it out. I'd rather save ten minutes of driving, and have more effort put into the side quests so they aren't all identical, which is what bioware did with ME2.

And seriously? ME1 had no real exploration. Dropping on the same looking planet and driving around the same looking mountains over and over again is not "awesome exploration". It's boring and tedious.

Not to mention the main areas of the game (Zakeera
ward, Omega, and Illium) are all TINY and boring. The presidium in ME1
+ the wards were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay bigger then any of the locations
presented in ME2. Hell, Noveria had a bigger set up then Omega. When
I picutre the presidium or a ward I picture a giant sprawling city that
I should be able to explore every nook and cranny of. Not a closed off
2 story building in the ward. I understand you dont have the
time to make anything as big as say what we see in games like Oblivion
but you could atleast make it big enough to house more then just a few
shops, a bar, and a small warehouse. Atleast give us 5 different
locations in the ward that are as big as what Zakeera presented us in
ME2.


Yeah, the hub planets where pretty small. But what they lacked in the default area to explore, they made up in having the side quests on that planet show us more of the planet, and letting us explore more.

While you can't just land on Illum and dick around with an area as big as the presidium (which is kind of unfair since that area was HUGE, and none of the other ME1 areas where nearly as big), you can get side quests that show you more of the planet, and frankly, the few side quests they had on there where awesome.

But really, outside of the Citadel, there weren't many planets you can just walk around and explore (and actually see something). If you combine Omega, Illum, Tuchanka, and the Citadel in ME2, you get more to explore than ME1 had to offer.

Going back to the side quests, in ME1 the sidequests and
planets were huge and you were basically just tossed into these worlds
with no sense of where to go or what to do. You had to figure it out
for yourself. ME2 doesnt give you that sense and instead holds your
hand like you're a retard whose never played an RPG before. Now
granted, ME1 sidequests and planets were rather dull and copy/pasted
but atleast you wernet having your hand heald and told where to go. No
point A to point B Bull sh**.


You DID NOT have to figure out where to go in ME1. In ME1 everything on the map was marked for you. There was pont A to point B bull****. Point A was you dropping on the planet, and point B was the spot on the map after you marked it.

If you ever thought "Gee, I sure am lost!" when exploring a planet in ME1, then congratulations, you can't manage to open up the freaking map and look.

And atleast finding resources was a little bit more interesting in ME1. Do they bring it back? No , instead we get AN ABSOLUTELY AWFUL SCANNING MINI GAME.
It feels like a watered down Flash Iphone game that has no place in the
next generation of gaming. Its slow, its tedious, and its annoying.
What retard on your staff thought this was a good idea? Probably the
same retard who thought ME1's side quests and planets should consist of
the same copy and pasted BS over and over. ID RATHER DRIVE THE MAKO THEN HAVE TO PLAY THIS STUPID GAME OVER AND OVER.
You guys need to scrap it. Hell, I remember pointing it out when it was
first unveiled and saying it was gonna be stupid. Just like the fuel
system.


I said it before and I'll say it again. I'd rather spend ten minutes scanning a bunch of planets planets than spand twenty minutes driving around a planet EVERYTIME.

The loyalty system is also completely dumbed down and linear.
Step 1: Talk to squad mate
Step 2: Do there quest (atleast, if nothing else the char quests were interesting)
Step 3: Loyalty gained lolololol nj you r teh winner

Dragon
Quest did it better. Of course Dragon Quest appeals to the hardcore
fans, unlike ME2. Atleast someone in Bioware knows what Bioware is all
about.


I'd rather have personalized quests for each character than a ****ty "give gift receive love" system. Seriously, how can you argue that DA's system was better?

#102
Graunt

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All that said, ME2 was enjoyable but FAR from what I was expecting or
what I wanted out of it. Bioware promised us "Empire Strikes back".
Instead I got "The Godfather Part 3".


This game was most definitely not Empire Stikes Back and more like The Phantom Menace.

It makes me question what their motives are, making tons of moneys or pleasing there die hard fans


That can't be a serious question.  Bioware isn't your friend, they are a business.  They used to make great roleplaying games, but too bad they woke up and realized they could make more money by jumping ship like every other once good game developer.  At least they will still have the resources to make everything look pretty.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 09:17 .


#103
LoweGear

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Kalfear wrote...

ME1 sold what? 1.5 million I think it was, ME2 sold 2 million. That means they only picked up a extra 500k. They definately stand to lose more then they gained in ME3 if you go by the numbers.


Mass Effect 1 sold 1.6 million in Six Weeks. Mass Effect 2 sold $2 Million.... in THREE DAYS

Modifié par LoweGear, 02 février 2010 - 09:15 .


#104
Twitchmonkey

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Jaysonie wrote...
The arrogance in this post is astounding. Or you do speak for rpg and casual shooter fans along with seeing into the future.


Kalfear is quick to tell you about all the problems with The Old Republic as well, and that game won't be out for a year, just figured I'd offer some explanation here.

#105
Treekodar

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Casual gamers > hardcore gamers. Why this is still being debated is beyond me.

#106
Jaysonie

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Twitchmonkey wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...
The arrogance in this post is astounding. Or you do speak for rpg and casual shooter fans along with seeing into the future.


Kalfear is quick to tell you about all the problems with The Old Republic as well, and that game won't be out for a year, just figured I'd offer some explanation here.


I'll keep that in mind.

#107
Jonnerz

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People should stop whining. Both were great games.

If you don't like it - trade it in, buy something else, play that. Complaints are getting old.

#108
Veex

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ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

While I do kind of wish that we had more weapons and armour pieces in ME2, you're an idiot if you think ME1 actually had more variety.  It had the illusion of variety via the inventory system, but mechanically and visually there was rarely a difference between many of the items while as in ME2 your carnifex hand cannon performs drastically different from your predator pistol and you can create a variety of appearances via the armour system. (Nevermind that you can mix and match armour stats too, creating dozens of combinations)

Leveling in ME2 is significantly better than ME1.  There may be less "paths" but each level of a skill gained is far more significant than the "+2% accuracy with assault rifle" crap that was in ME1. 


This. I don't think anyone is necessarily an idiot for prefering ME's inventory system, but to insinuate that Mass Effect 2 is "dumbed down" is disingenuous. There was nothing difficult about Mass Effect's inventory or skill allocation. At least in Mass Effect 2 you can make a conscious decision about what heavy pistol to use and actually have its effects change, rather than simply its name.

I'll agree that a little more diversity and a more robust selection of armor and weapons would be welcomed, but Mass Effect's loot and inventory system wasn't anything more than tedious.

#109
spock06

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ar eyou f*cking people serious? ME1's sidequests were "huge"? LOL. ME1 had the worst sidequests in any game i've ever played. The only reason I completed them was to put off finishing the game as fast as possible because the story missions were so good. I am so f*cking tired of hearing you idiots complain about "12 yr old halo fans ruining our RPG" Grow the f*ck up and learn how to use a controller for something besides scrolling through your beloved inventories and "deep" skill trees. If you don't like it go to your local Dragon's Den and roll dice to see if you +1 sword of ****mongery hits or not.

Modifié par spock06, 02 février 2010 - 09:18 .


#110
exboomer

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Khavos wrote...

Ryzinn wrote...

Fanboys, you can rip me a new **** all you like, but I'm not the only one complaining about these issues. Credibility is judged by numbers not by fanboys.


You mean like sales numbers?  'Cause I think Bioware has plenty of credibility, if that's the case.

I wish a lot were different about ME2, but it's not going to happen with ME3.  Bioware's not going to deliberately limit their demographic by returning to hardcore RPGs, especially not with EA cracking the whip now.

The golden age of those types of games is long since gone.  More people play on consoles than on PCs, meaning that's the market every big game developer's going to shoot for - meaning the game has to be shallow enough to function on a console. 

Your statement makes no sense. If ME was able to function great on a console them ME2 should of been also able to function great on a console. Bioware sold out and dumbed down ME2 to appeal to all the kiddies out there instead of to their loyal fans who were expecting a solid RPG not a watered down generic shooter.

#111
Darkmoone1

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What is this "hardcore" you speak of?

#112
exboomer

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spock06 wrote...

ar eyou f*cking people serious? ME1's sidequests were "huge"? LOL. ME1 had the worst sidequests in any game i've ever played. The only reason I completed them was to put off finishing the game as fast as possible because the story missions were so good. I am so f*cking tired of hearing you idiots complain about "12 yr old halo fans ruining our RPG" Grow the f*ck up and learn how to use a controller for something besides scrolling through your beloved inventories and "deep" skill trees. If you don't like it go to your local Dragon's Den and roll dice to see if you +1 sword of ****mongery hits or not.

Immature much??

#113
WillieStyle

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Kalfear wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

ME1 sold what? 1.5 million I think it was, ME2 sold 2 million. That means they only picked up a extra 500k. They definately stand to lose more then they gained in ME3 if you go by the numbers.


This is particularly ironic coming from someone who prides themselves as being part of an "intelligent" RPG elite.
The innumeracy shown here is breathtaking.


Color me stupid but I dont get what troll boy saying here?

Anyone else?

Is not 1.5 > 0.5 ?

Now granted I havent been in school for a few decades and not up on new math but pretty such my equation is correct


If you were a bit more polite I'd explain what was wrong with your post. Since you're being rude, I - and others with a basic grasp of arithmetic and logic - will just continue to mock you.

#114
Twitchmonkey

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Darkmoone1 wrote...

What is this "hardcore" you speak of?


Google it. It won't work if you have safesearch on though.

No, don't do that.

#115
Graunt

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exboomer wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Ryzinn wrote...

Fanboys, you can rip me a new **** all you like, but I'm not the only one complaining about these issues. Credibility is judged by numbers not by fanboys.


You mean like sales numbers?  'Cause I think Bioware has plenty of credibility, if that's the case.

I wish a lot were different about ME2, but it's not going to happen with ME3.  Bioware's not going to deliberately limit their demographic by returning to hardcore RPGs, especially not with EA cracking the whip now.

The golden age of those types of games is long since gone.  More people play on consoles than on PCs, meaning that's the market every big game developer's going to shoot for - meaning the game has to be shallow enough to function on a console. 

Your statement makes no sense. If ME was able to function great on a console them ME2 should of been also able to function great on a console. Bioware sold out and dumbed down ME2 to appeal to all the kiddies out there instead of to their loyal fans who were expecting a solid RPG not a watered down generic shooter.


To be fair, the combat was greatly improved over ME.  The problem is everything else took a backwards step other than the art design (which is fantastic).  I also don't really like how every single area looks like it's a training ground for the military just so the new cover system would work.

#116
exboomer

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LoweGear wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

ME1 sold what? 1.5 million I think it was, ME2 sold 2 million. That means they only picked up a extra 500k. They definately stand to lose more then they gained in ME3 if you go by the numbers.


Mass Effect 1 sold 1.6 million in Six Weeks. Mass Effect 2 sold $2 Million.... in THREE DAYS


That's because people knew what they were getting in ME2, no one knew how good ME would be when it launched. It has nothing to do with ME2 being a better game than ME.

#117
Fujin05

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[-.-]

Modifié par Fujin05, 02 février 2010 - 09:28 .


#118
Khavos

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Graunt wrote...

To be fair, the combat was greatly improved over ME.  The problem is everything else took a backwards step other than the art design (which is fantastic).  I also don't really like how every single area looks like it's a training ground for the military just so the new cover system would work.


The combat is greatly improved, but that means it's even easier to completely ignore the RPG aspects that remained - I'd argue you're far more efficient doing so, to be honest.

And yeah, the cover's well past overboard.  It comes awfully close to boring, always being able to find a completely safe spot anywhere you want. 

#119
Graunt

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exboomer wrote...

LoweGear wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

ME1 sold what? 1.5 million I think it was, ME2 sold 2 million. That means they only picked up a extra 500k. They definately stand to lose more then they gained in ME3 if you go by the numbers.


Mass Effect 1 sold 1.6 million in Six Weeks. Mass Effect 2 sold $2 Million.... in THREE DAYS


That's because people knew what they were getting in ME2, no one knew how good ME would be when it launched. It has nothing to do with ME2 being a better game than ME.


Obviously not everyone "knew what they were getting" or there wouldn't be so many complaint threads.

#120
Veex

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exboomer wrote...

That's because people knew what they were getting in ME2, no one knew how good ME would be when it launched. It has nothing to do with ME2 being a better game than ME.


Six weeks is plenty of time for word of mouth to spread about how good or bad Mass Effect was. Good or bad is a subjective point of view for each individual, but developers measure it in dollars earned.

#121
Twitchmonkey

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exboomer wrote...

That's because people knew what they were getting in ME2, no one knew how good ME would be when it launched. It has nothing to do with ME2 being a better game than ME.


Many reviews were available when both games released. You don't think an average score of 96 (a rating 5-7 points higher than ME1) from reviewers sold copies?

#122
Darkmoone1

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Twitchmonkey wrote...

Darkmoone1 wrote...

What is this "hardcore" you speak of?


Google it. It won't work if you have safesearch on though.

No, don't do that.


In my gaming life, There is no such thing as a "Casual" or "Hardcore" gamer. Theres just a Gamer.

Modifié par Darkmoone1, 02 février 2010 - 09:28 .


#123
Graunt

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Twitchmonkey wrote...

exboomer wrote...

That's because people knew what they were getting in ME2, no one knew how good ME would be when it launched. It has nothing to do with ME2 being a better game than ME.


Many reviews were available when both games released. You don't think an average score of 96 (a rating 5-7 points higher than ME1) from reviewers sold copies?


The reviews helped for people that never played the first game, but the massively overhyped (and almost false advertising) videos did the lion's share.  Do you know what part of this game gave me the most awe inspiring feeling?  The damn launch trailer....

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 09:30 .


#124
Jonnerz

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Darkmoone1 wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

Darkmoone1 wrote...

What is this "hardcore" you speak of?


Google it. It won't work if you have safesearch on though.

No, don't do that.


In my gaming life. There is no such thing as a "Casual" or "Hardcore" gamer. Theres just a Gamer.


Casual - someone who plays for fun

Hardcore - A) Someone who plays for bragging rights, or competitively.
                    B) A diehard fan of one particular gaming franchise.

#125
Graunt

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Jonnerz wrote...

Darkmoone1 wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

Darkmoone1 wrote...

What is this "hardcore" you speak of?


Google it. It won't work if you have safesearch on though.

No, don't do that.


In my gaming life. There is no such thing as a "Casual" or "Hardcore" gamer. Theres just a Gamer.


Casual - someone who plays for fun

Hardcore - A) Someone who plays for bragging rights, or competitively.
                    B) A diehard fan of one particular gaming franchise.


That's pretty off the mark.