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Alastair dumped my female mage (Aeris) Story flaw?

Débuté par Guest_Fizban1Kc_* , févr. 02 2010 10:40

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#26
RangerSG
Posté 03 février 2010 - 08:32

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Addai67 wrote...

So let me get this straight... you make Alistair king even though he says he doesn't want to be, he tries to do his duty as king (which you arranged for him), but he's the bad guy? You didn't notice the whole time playing the game that Fereldans keep mages locked up in a tower because they fear their power so much, but they'd be ok with having one as queen?

Alistair will marry a HNF only if she passes a Persuade check during the Landsmeet (where you are convincing not just Alistair but the nobles) and later on a check with him about the GW baby problem. As a Cousland, your family is 2nd in line to the throne. But there is no skill level of Coercion high enough to convince Fereldan nobles, who are already iffy on having a bastard half-commoner as king, to accept an elf or a mage as a queen alongside him. That would be a complete break of game lore.


Exactly, my female mage saw this one coming a mile away and broke off with Alistair herself. She consoled herself with Zev, though. :whistle: I didn't know about the 'public' break-up though. Ouch. I think that would be enough to make my female PCs say, "Is it too late for Wynne to cast revival so we can put Loghain through the Joining?"

#27
kumanur
Posté 04 février 2010 - 12:23

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pezwitch wrote...

My city elf was never in a relationship with Alistair (she has issues with male humans, go figure) and I was SHOCKED when he broke up with her after the Landsmeet in front of everyone.

She didn't get the rose, Zev didn't get jealous... No indication that the game was heading in that direction.

I haven't been able to decide if my girl was just really dense or if Al was just a wee bit delusional.


This happened to me too!

I was deep in a relationship with Zev and sure enough right after the Landsmeet Alistair broke up with me, i'd been as nice to him as i could because i wanted to make sure i could get him to go with the Ritual later on, i guess he took it the wrong way and thought we were an item.

I told him it was ok, I was sorry it had come to this, he left with an Approval of 2 and i went back to camp and banged Zev....go figure.

#28
EverlastingFantasy
Posté 04 février 2010 - 02:01

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I just finished on my Human noble warrior and he mentioned the same thing about he wasn`t sure if it would work out if I couldn`t concieve a child. I still was able to marry him though. The sliders at the end said something like " So and so are still worried that alistairs bloodline will be ended at his death. Something about how I still couldn`t get prego. " =/

#29
SuperMedbh
Posté 04 février 2010 - 02:30

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In public?  Ouch.  At least he had the decency to dump my mage in afterwards by herself.  My city elf saw that coming, though, so she put Anora on the throne.  Sure, she's a complete girl dog, but as Alistair said "Well, she seems to want it".

*sigh*  I think my Dalish elf might go for Zev.  Assassins just aren't as dramatic as Templars, apparently.

#30
Wournos
Posté 04 février 2010 - 10:24

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Interesting that a game "promotes" promiscuity. :lol:
Life immitates art immitates life...

#31
IanPolaris
Posté 05 février 2010 - 05:26

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I found the best ending in this regard was to be a Human Female Noble (I was a Dual Weapon DPS Warrior) and not romance Alastair and instead got hot and heavy with Zev. Alistair and I were still friends but only that.



If you do it that way, you get the hard (but doable) persuasion option at the Landsmeet to put Alistair on the throne with you as his queen. For pure win I did this AFTER promising Anora that she could marry him....but I changed my mind.



Afterwords when Alistair talks about heirs and the difficulties, just say that you will bear children but they don't have to be his heirs. Zev later offers you the option for him to gracefully go away, but he is more than willing to remain as "a handsome elf on the side" (to use his phrase).



Interestingly, if you do this, you get a very positive epilog with a beloved king and queen and there is no mention that there is any fear of lack of heirs to the throne. Heh....perhaps an Antivan Crow can wind up on the throne after all ;)



-Polaris

#32
sylvanaerie
Posté 05 février 2010 - 05:49

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IanPolaris wrote...

I found the best ending in this regard was to be a Human Female Noble (I was a Dual Weapon DPS Warrior) and not romance Alastair and instead got hot and heavy with Zev. Alistair and I were still friends but only that.

If you do it that way, you get the hard (but doable) persuasion option at the Landsmeet to put Alistair on the throne with you as his queen. For pure win I did this AFTER promising Anora that she could marry him....but I changed my mind.

Afterwords when Alistair talks about heirs and the difficulties, just say that you will bear children but they don't have to be his heirs. Zev later offers you the option for him to gracefully go away, but he is more than willing to remain as "a handsome elf on the side" (to use his phrase).

Interestingly, if you do this, you get a very positive epilog with a beloved king and queen and there is no mention that there is any fear of lack of heirs to the throne. Heh....perhaps an Antivan Crow can wind up on the throne after all ;)

-Polaris


OMG you are my NEW HERO!!!

#33
IanPolaris
Posté 05 février 2010 - 06:44

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Oh, I almost forgot, but it should be obvious. For what I wrote to work, you must harden Alistair.



-Polaris

#34
Guest_Fizban1Kc_*
Posté 08 février 2010 - 01:42

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Update! For some reason the save corrupted and I had to do the Alienagee and Landsmeet all over again with Aeris. Somehow I persuade checked Alastair and after saying that he could do what ever he wanted and that being a king wasnt a punishment  he did NOT dump her! She is gonna be Queen afterall!

Maybe it is the same persuade check you need as a female noble?

Modifié par Fizban1Kc, 08 février 2010 - 01:43 .

#35
Addai
Posté 08 février 2010 - 02:54

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In vanilla game, only a human noble female can be queen. Hardened Alistair will keep you if you pass a Persuade check, but only as a mistress. I do believe there are mods that allow various queen endings, but to me it totally breaks game lore and just shouldn't be.

#36
Sarielle
Posté 08 février 2010 - 02:55

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Fizban1Kc wrote...

Update! For some reason the save corrupted and I had to do the Alienagee and Landsmeet all over again with Aeris. Somehow I persuade checked Alastair and after saying that he could do what ever he wanted and that being a king wasnt a punishment  he did NOT dump her! She is gonna be Queen afterall!

Maybe it is the same persuade check you need as a female noble?



No, you're just not dumped. You're still not queen (or more correctly, princess-consort). He's still going to marry someone else.

#37
SuperMedbh
Posté 08 février 2010 - 07:30

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Hey, it's not as if Madame Pompadour lived a life of drudgery and sorrow.

#38
Maria Caliban
Posté 08 février 2010 - 08:37

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Leliana: Does not dump you because you're an elf/mage/dwarf. Does not run off with your god-baby.

#39
lyriumhawk
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 08:57

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IanPolaris wrote...

I found the best ending in this regard was to be a Human Female Noble (I was a Dual Weapon DPS Warrior) and not romance Alastair and instead got hot and heavy with Zev. Alistair and I were still friends but only that.

If you do it that way, you get the hard (but doable) persuasion option at the Landsmeet to put Alistair on the throne with you as his queen. For pure win I did this AFTER promising Anora that she could marry him....but I changed my mind.

Afterwords when Alistair talks about heirs and the difficulties, just say that you will bear children but they don't have to be his heirs. Zev later offers you the option for him to gracefully go away, but he is more than willing to remain as "a handsome elf on the side" (to use his phrase).

Interestingly, if you do this, you get a very positive epilog with a beloved king and queen and there is no mention that there is any fear of lack of heirs to the throne. Heh....perhaps an Antivan Crow can wind up on the throne after all ;)

-Polaris




I would love to see a vid of that dialogue ! :D

Modifié par lyriumhawk, 28 avril 2012 - 08:57 .

#40
iheartbob
Posté 03 juin 2012 - 09:34

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My very first playthrough was with a female dalish elf warrior. She romanced both Alistair and Zevran, chose Alistair when they made her choose, and then rekindled her friendship and later romance with Zevran again. I rationalized it by roleplaying her as a very liberal, "free-spirited" elf who did not believe in only one true love.

She later passed the hard persuasion check with Alistair after the Landsmeet, so he did not dump her, but she also got the conversation with Zevran that states he would stay in Denerum with her a while. I figured this was only fair, as for political reasons Alistair could not marry her, and thus she would in essence be a consort on the side. Therefor it was only fair she could keep Zevran on the side as well.

Of course the final ending cards are flagged for your "main" romance, so she is constantly seen in the castle with Alistair and Zevran eventually goes back to Antiva. I like to think that in the end when she "disappears" after Awakening, she traveled to Antiva to find Zevran. Alistair is always in her heart, but the reality of the political situation means they can't truely be together out in the open.

#41
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 03 juin 2012 - 11:31

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Addai67 wrote...

So let me get this straight... you make Alistair king even though he says he doesn't want to be, he tries to do his duty as king (which you arranged for him), but he's the bad guy? You didn't notice the whole time playing the game that Fereldans keep mages locked up in a tower because they fear their power so much, but they'd be ok with having one as queen?<br />
<br />
Alistair will marry a HNF only if she passes a Persuade check during the Landsmeet (where you are convincing not just Alistair but the nobles) and later on a check with him about the GW baby problem. As a Cousland, your family is 2nd in line to the throne. But there is no skill level of Coercion high enough to convince Fereldan nobles, who are already iffy on having a bastard half-commoner as king, to accept an elf or a mage as a queen alongside him. That would be a complete break of game lore.

I know its been two years since this was posted, but since this thread has been necro'd, I agree so much with this post. Not to mention that mages are not legally allowed to hold a title, which is flat out stated when dealing with Connor (or did people sleep through the Redcliffe questline?) so Alistair could not marry or make a mage Warden queen no matter how much he might want it. The flaw is not with the story, but the players' understanding of it. [ ]

#42
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 01:14

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Faerunner wrote...
I know its been two years since this was posted, but since this thread has been necro'd, I agree so much with this post. Not to mention that mages are not legally allowed to hold a title, which is flat out stated when dealing with Connor (or did people sleep through the Redcliffe questline?) so Alistair could not marry or make a mage Warden queen no matter how much he might want it. The flaw is not with the story, but the players' understanding of it. [ ]


Well, it is time to change all that, Alistair could change it, he can change the Circle-Chantry relationship if Mage Warden die ultimate sacrifice, so why not change the rule on mages "cannot hold titles"?

She is a Warden anyhow, isn't that a title? As a Warden she is not viewed as a mage, but as Warden. When becoming a Warden it will deny everything she was.

#43
Gamer Ftw
Posté 23 juin 2012 - 09:05

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Magic is supposed to serve man not rule over him.
That's why a mage can't be Queen.

#44
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 23 juin 2012 - 03:25

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Nizaris1 wrote...

Well, it is time to change all that, Alistair could change it, he can change the Circle-Chantry relationship if Mage Warden die ultimate sacrifice, so why not change the rule on mages "cannot hold titles"?

She is a Warden anyhow, isn't that a title? As a Warden she is not viewed as a mage, but as Warden. When becoming a Warden it will deny everything she was.

No he couldn't. In Fereldan, a king only has as much power as the nobles give him.  If he tries to force them to do something they don't like, they rebel, start a civil war and/or vote him out with a Landsmeet. (Just look at Teyrn Loghain's Regency.)

It's one thing to let the mages govern themselves inside their prison, it's another to let the "prisoners" out of their cells and start running the country. The nobles have all the power and they aren't willing to share that power with mages, elves or foreigners. "Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him."

The Grey Wardens are politically neutral, and theirs is a special case since they dedicate their lives to fighting darkspawn. They are allowed to recruit anyone, under the idea that getting people who're needed to prevent and deal with Blights are more important than letting everyone die. It gets you the respect and perks of an elite warrior, but NOT a noble or political figure.  When vying for the throne, saying "I'm a teyrn/arl" holds more weight than a Warden. Saying "I'm a Grey Warden" holds no more weight than a general in the army. 

Modifié par Faerunner, 23 juin 2012 - 09:30 .

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