532 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxlimn]

Kill speed isn't the only factor that goes into how easy a class is to play. One of the reasons that Sentinel is so fun (and easy) is because of Tech Armor rendering you tough enough to absorb several rocket explosions in the face (on Hardcore). It's nice to able to go toe to toe with a Praetorian and not die.



Adept can do this through his Biotics. Many players who post on these forums are under the mistaken assumption that a power not affecting a defended enemy makes it worthless. This is untrue. For reference, D&D Magic powers used to have saving throws - a chance that they did diddly squat. That didn't make them worthless - just risky. Asking the player to strip defenses before applying CC powers is simply a binary form of resistance.



As I go through levels on Hardcore, I'm having an easier and easier time applying Biotics powers, mostly because my defense-stripping powers are now really in stride. Area Overload from Garrus and Miranda can totally strip particular mooks of Shields in one go (Eclipse cannon fodder, mostly).



Apply Sing to gather them in one place, Area Overload, then Pull Field. Insta-win.



This is particularly vicious in enclosed spaces, or if you storm through new areas so you get to the enemies just as they spawn. Applying Sing just outside the spawn areas allows you to gather ALL the enemies in a nice tight ball where you can AoE the living beejezus out of them. It is not unusual to be able to remove 3 or 4 mooks in the space of the few seconds it takes to place three powers, assuming they're all in the AoE.



Area Overload, Pull to Warp has killed me lots of stuff, and the application of those three powers takes maybe one or two seconds. Mainly, you're waiting for Garrus to apply the AoE Overload and then being careful to apply Pull before Miranda applies Warp. (or Jacob applying Pull before you apply Warp).



As far as kill speed goes, going for the AoE damage accounts for some of the speediest kills I've ever done. Of course, it only works if the enemies are clumped in nice, neat groups. It doesn't happen all the time.

[Ingahootz]

vhatever wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

-Rush in and kill enemies from close range
or
-Kill enemies from long range then rush in after.

This mental midget fails to see how one is faster than the other.

If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

Still waiting on that video champ.

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

-Rush in and kill enemies from close range
or
-Kill enemies from long range then rush in after.

This mental midget fails to see how one is faster than the other.

If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

You are a moron yet again. I swear you are either retarded or 13 years old. If someone can kill something in 5 seconds at long range and someone can kill something in 5 seconds at point blank range. There is no difference in the amount of time it will take for either of them to get to the same spot.

Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

[vhatever]

Ingahootz wrote...

vhatever wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

-Rush in and kill enemies from close range
or
-Kill enemies from long range then rush in after.

This mental midget fails to see how one is faster than the other.

If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

Still waiting on that video champ.

Video of what, kid?

You think I'm gonna waste my time with your idiotic nonsense? Hope you got some real money where your mouth is.

[WillieStyle]

vhatever wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

-Rush in and kill enemies from close range
or
-Kill enemies from long range then rush in after.

This mental midget fails to see how one is faster than the other.

If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

But... why... how.... when...
I'm so confused.

[Ingahootz]

vhatever wrote...

Ingahootz wrote...

vhatever wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

-Rush in and kill enemies from close range
or
-Kill enemies from long range then rush in after.

This mental midget fails to see how one is faster than the other.

If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

Still waiting on that video champ.

Video of what, kid?

You think I'm gonna waste my time with your idiotic nonsense? Hope you got some real money where your mouth is.

Haha kid, that's good. Says the 13 year old.

You are definitely the funniest person on these forums.

[vhatever]

Ya, that's what i figured. As they say, BS walks.

[Ingahootz]

vhatever wrote...

Ya, that's what i figured. As they say, BS walks.

Who's walking?

Edit: You know I've realized something. If we ignored every single post in this thread that Vhatever has made and every response people have made to him, it looks a lot cleaner.

Modifié par Ingahootz, 08 février 2010 - 02:03 .

[tetracycloide]

vhatever wrote...
If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

Non sequitur.  Run speeds equal.  Kill speeds equal.  Order irrelevant to overall speed.

[Ingahootz]

tetracycloide wrote...

vhatever wrote...
If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

Non sequitur.  Run speeds equal.  Kill speeds equal.  Order irrelevant to overall speed.

I'm strangely intrigued yet confused at the same time.

[rumination888]

tetracycloide wrote...

vhatever wrote...
If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

Non sequitur.  Run speeds equal.  Kill speeds equal.  Order irrelevant to overall speed.

Person A and B need to get from point Y to point X.
They both kill at the same speed.
Person A moves from point Y to point X while killing.
Person B stays at point Y while killing.
Person A will get to Point X faster.

Or quite simply, if 2 people clear a room at the same same time, but one of them finishes the clear at the start while the other finishes at the exit, the one that finishes at the exit clears faster.

vhatever doesn't have have much tact, but he or she isn't wrong.

Personally, after watching Sinosleep's vid and trying it out myself by using a low level Vanguard utilizing your squadmates incendiary ammo instead of your own, Vanguard absolutely destroys the Soldier and Infiltrator in kill speed on Insanity.

[Handsome Hank]

The prevailing opinion is that Vanguards and Adepts are trash, but I think that's more of a knee-jerk reaction to biotcs' nerfing than any true analysis of the characters.

So, you don't want to acknowledge the possibility that this could be true? Possibly because you like the Vanguard?



My bullcrap-o-meter just hit overload but whatever.



More on topic, on insanity there are only two no-headache choices that I could come up with - infiltrator or soldier. I'm sure that you could beat it with other classes but it just seems like it would be a chore.

[casedawgz]

vhatever wrote...

Ya, that's what i figured. As they say, BS walks.

I don't think that's what they say. You seem to have reversed the roles of BS and cash.

Modifié par casedawgz, 08 février 2010 - 02:29 .

[Hoffburger]

rumination888 wrote...

tetracycloide wrote...

vhatever wrote...
If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

Non sequitur.  Run speeds equal.  Kill speeds equal.  Order irrelevant to overall speed.

Person A and B need to get from point Y to point X.
They both kill at the same speed.
Person A moves from point Y to point X then starts killing.
Person B stays at point Y while killing.
Person A will get to Point X faster.

Or quite simply, if 2 people clear a room at the same same time, but one of them finishes the clear at the start while the other finishes at the exit, the one that finishes at the exit clears faster.

vhatever doesn't have have much tact, but he or she isn't wrong.

Personally, after watching Sinosleep's vid and trying it out myself by using a low level Vanguard utilizing your squadmates incendiary ammo instead of your own, Vanguard absolutely destroys the Soldier and Infiltrator in kill speed on Insanity.

Fixed, he was talking about getting right up in their face. Also, there's nothing that says that the Widow can't be used at close range, so the "sniper" could move forward while shooting much easier than someone with a shotgun or Revenant could.

Either way, he is wrong.

[tetracycloide]

rumination888 wrote...
Or quite simply, if 2 people clear a room at the same same time, but one of them finishes the clear at the start while the other finishes at the exit, the one that finishes at the exit clears faster.

Final location irrelevant to overall speed.  Moving 'while killing' never argued.  Vhatever's posts clearly stated: run then kill.

vhatever wrote...
I'd rather cloak in close, get goos positionioning, and kill somene with head shots.

Furthermore, aim reduces run speed.  Headshots while running random.  Larger variance.  Running while shooting reduces kill speed or run speed.  Not possible to maximize both without separating acts.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 08 février 2010 - 02:39 .

[WillieStyle]

rumination888 wrote...

tetracycloide wrote...

vhatever wrote...
If we have the same kill rate, and I rushed, I saved 5-15 seconds walk time. Think on it. You'll get it. Might take you a couple nights contemplation, however.

Non sequitur.  Run speeds equal.  Kill speeds equal.  Order irrelevant to overall speed.

Person A and B need to get from point Y to point X.
They both kill at the same speed.
Person A moves from point Y to point X while killing.
Person B stays at point Y while killing.
Person A will get to Point X faster.

Or quite simply, if 2 people clear a room at the same same time, but one of them finishes the clear at the start while the other finishes at the exit, the one that finishes at the exit clears faster.

vhatever doesn't have have much tact, but he or she isn't wrong.

This is true if and only if Person A literarily kills while moving.  It isn't true if person A rushes to point X and then kills the enemy (which is what vhatever said), or rushes to intermediate points between point Y and Point X, pausing to kill the enemy at each intermediate point.  Personally, I find shooting while out in the open lethal as an Infiltrator.  I storm between cover points and shoot from cover.  Your milage may vary.

Personally, after watching Sinosleep's vid and trying it out myself by using a low level Vanguard utilizing your squadmates incendiary ammo instead of your own, Vanguard absolutely destroys the Soldier and Infiltrator in kill speed on Insanity.

Interesting.  What features of the Vanguard make it faster at killing than a soldier? I would have thought that the Soldier would have virtually every kill speed advantage a Vanguard did; but I haven't played a Vanguard so I can't be certain.  Is it the increased travel speed of Charge?

[sinosleep]

tetracycloide wrote...

Furthermore, aim reduces run speed.  Headshots while running random.  Larger variance.  Running while shooting reduces kill speed or run speed.  Not possible to maximize both without separating acts.

You type like Mordin speaks, I like it.

[WillieStyle]

tetracycloide wrote...

rumination888 wrote...
Or quite simply, if 2 people clear a room at the same same time, but one of them finishes the clear at the start while the other finishes at the exit, the one that finishes at the exit clears faster.

Final location irrelevant to overall speed.  Moving 'while killing' never argued.  Vhatever's posts clearly stated: run then kill.

vhatever wrote...
I'd rather cloak in close, get goos positionioning, and kill somene with head shots.

Furthermore, aim reduces run speed.  Headshots while running random.  Larger variance.  Running while shooting reduces kill speed or run speed.  Not possible to maximize both without separating acts.

I love that you've got Mordin's diction down pat. Impressive.

[vhatever]

tetracycloide wrote...

rumination888 wrote...
Or quite simply, if 2 people clear a room at the same same time, but one of them finishes the clear at the start while the other finishes at the exit, the one that finishes at the exit clears faster.

Final location irrelevant to overall speed.  Moving 'while killing' never argued.  Vhatever's posts clearly stated: run then kill.

vhatever wrote...
I'd rather cloak in close, get goos positionioning, and kill somene with head shots.

Furthermore, aim reduces run speed.  Headshots while running random.  Larger variance.  Running while shooting reduces kill speed or run speed.  Not possible to maximize both without separating acts.

Wow, I didn't know soldiers had cloak.

What a moron.

[Ingahootz]

tetracycloide wrote...

Furthermore, aim reduces run speed.  Headshots while running random.  Larger variance.  Running while shooting reduces kill speed or run speed.  Not possible to maximize both without separating acts.

Holy crap man you're cracking me up. Keep up the good work.

Vhatever is just using an ideal situation where he thinks he can cloak rush the other side without having to take cover or run into high armor/hp mobs such as Krogan. Cloak eventually drops at one point where he's either going to have to take a lot of damage or take cover. I guarantee he'll have to take cover, even slightly more often then someone sitting in the back, which will lower his kill speed.

I still find it interesting that he claims he can complete Mordin's mission in 10 minutes, considering it takes about 10 minutes to run the full length of the map. I'd still love to see him post a video of it, but of course it's never going to happen. He's incapable of doing it.

[Ingahootz]

vhatever wrote...

tetracycloide wrote...

rumination888 wrote...
Or quite simply, if 2 people clear a room at the same same time, but one of them finishes the clear at the start while the other finishes at the exit, the one that finishes at the exit clears faster.

Final location irrelevant to overall speed.  Moving 'while killing' never argued.  Vhatever's posts clearly stated: run then kill.

vhatever wrote...
I'd rather cloak in close, get goos positionioning, and kill somene with head shots.

Furthermore, aim reduces run speed.  Headshots while running random.  Larger variance.  Running while shooting reduces kill speed or run speed.  Not possible to maximize both without separating acts.

Wow, I didn't know soldiers had cloak.

What a moron.

You mentioned infiltrator with a pistol earlier. He is not the moron.

[WillieStyle]

Personally, I'd like to seem him kill 2 vorcha in 3 seconds with a pistol on Insanity. It isn't mathematically impossible or anything, but it'd be damn imperssive.

[rumination888]

tetracycloide wrote...

rumination888 wrote...
Or quite simply, if 2 people clear a room at the same same time, but one of them finishes the clear at the start while the other finishes at the exit, the one that finishes at the exit clears faster.

Final location irrelevant to overall speed.  Moving 'while killing' never argued.  Vhatever's posts clearly stated: run then kill.

vhatever wrote...
I'd rather cloak in close, get goos positionioning, and kill somene with head shots.

Furthermore, aim reduces run speed.  Headshots while running random.  Larger variance.  Running while shooting reduces kill speed or run speed.  Not possible to maximize both without separating acts.

\\

Setting up a headshot might kill your targetted enemy fast at that moment in time, but you also have to factor in the time it took to set up that headshot in the first place.

You also don't need to aim before shooting a gun.
With an SR, not aiming is obviously bad.
But what if you're using a weapon that shoots so fast, hits so hard, and has such a humungous ammo capacity that missing a few rounds doesn't matter? Do you need to aim then?
Or what if you're using a weapon where you're always right on top of the enemy? Do you need to aim then?

[vhatever]

You would argue the sky is purple if you thought you could get the sky on your side, since no one with an IQ over 10 would ever agree with anyting out of your mouth. He can't tell the difference between one post talking about a soldier and another post taling about an infiltrtator. Sorry, that's a moron, especially when I went out of my way to say "my soldier" in the soldier post and oly on class gets cloak.

[Ingahootz]

vhatever wrote...

You would argue the sky is purple if you thought you could get the sky on your side, since no one with an IQ over 10 would ever agree with anyting out of your mouth. He can't tell the difference between one post talking about a soldier and another post taling about an infiltrtator. Sorry, that's a moron, especially when I went out of my way to say "my soldier" in the soldier post and oly on class gets cloak.

But the sky is purple and the grass is yellow.

Original debate was involving Infiltrator, he's following that logic. I know it's a little hard to comprehend but I'm sure you'll get it by Wednesday.

By the way did you even happen to read what he quoted when he responded? Doesn't make HIM look so dumb now does it.

Modifié par Ingahootz, 08 février 2010 - 02:57 .