532 réponses à ce sujet

[vhatever]

Yes, tell me about all the awesome skill it takes to sniper someone under cover. You mean luck when they leave their head hanging out an inch or two? That's not skill, it's complete luck. You're a joke.



There are plenty of times when a rifle is better than a pistol. Sure. Who said there wasn't? 80-90% of the time for the early missions, it's simply not the case. But with a pistol you need some real fast reflexes and, uhh, skill. Both of which you may find in short supply.



How much real money you got to do your talking for ya, junior? I'll fraps the whole damn thing.

[Ingahootz]

vhatever wrote...


Yes, tell me about all the awesome skill it takes to sniper someone under cover. You mean luck when they leave their head hanging out an inch or two? That's not skill, it's complete luck. You're a joke.

There are plenty of times when a rifle is better than a pistol. Sure. Who said there wasn't? 80-90% of the time for the early missions, it's simply not the case. But with a pistol you need some real fast reflexes and, uhh, skill. Both of which you may find in short supply.

How much real money you got to do your talking for ya, junior? I'll fraps the whole damn thing.

Pistol takes skill. Sniping heads takes skill. Not sure if you've noticed but the majority of the time NPCs will leave their heads in view. If you can even get a glipse of a few pixels of their head you can snipe it. You can't say the same for the pistol.

The frapsing thing is never going to happen anyways because it's not possible for you to do it.

From this point forward I'm ignoring all of your posts. You're not as good as you try to make others believe. You BS almost all of your scenarios. You tell other people that they're stupid because they disagree with you. You're never willing to admit that you're wrong. You're a waste of time. If you haven't noticed, there have been several occassions where you've been asked to leave the thread. I'm sure everyone here knows you're full of crap and are just posting here for sh*ts and giggles.

Of course, I'm expecting the "Omg he got owned" response. I couldn't care less. Considering your attitude you're certainly not worth the air you breathe let alone having the people on this forum respond to your posts. You seriously think you're a god at this game? Fine with me. I still call BS.

[MGIII]

MANoob wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...
That isn't really relevant.  As long as
# of shots required to kill enemy with cloak < # of shots required to kill enemy without cloak, 
cloak isn't redundant.  Which is all I was arguing.

Cloack isn't redundant. It's one of the best powers out there. But saying that classes other than soldier/infiltrator are bad with SRs is wrong. In fact a high level sentinel can do quite some damage with any weapon he takes just because he won't have to take cover as often as other classes. As a sentinel I often took cover only to reload my weapon.

It is majorily redundant. Cloaking to one shot an enemy that can be one hsotted without is redundant. It only becomes useful against bosses or very heavily armored enemies, which are rare compared to the other quantity of enemies.

TC's uses are against boss caliber characters. Otherwise, it's redundant except for getting out of sticky situations.

[Ingahootz]

MGIII wrote...

MANoob wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...
That isn't really relevant.  As long as
# of shots required to kill enemy with cloak < # of shots required to kill enemy without cloak, 
cloak isn't redundant.  Which is all I was arguing.

Cloack isn't redundant. It's one of the best powers out there. But saying that classes other than soldier/infiltrator are bad with SRs is wrong. In fact a high level sentinel can do quite some damage with any weapon he takes just because he won't have to take cover as often as other classes. As a sentinel I often took cover only to reload my weapon.

It is majorily redundant. Cloaking to one shot an enemy that can be one hsotted without is redundant. It only becomes useful against bosses or very heavily armored enemies, which are rare compared to the other quantity of enemies.

TC's uses are against boss caliber characters. Otherwise, it's redundant except for getting out of sticky situations.

I have noticed that even with the Widow, sometimes a Collector NPC will live with a sliver of health if shot from an extreme distance. A cloak shot would have been a one shot. These are very very rare cases though so I'd have to agree throughout most of the game when you can start one shotting NPCs, cloak is pointless. The only reason it would be worth using is if you want to avoid being shot at while sniping.

Damage wise there's no point to using cloak unless against a boss or elite mob like you've stated.

[MANoob]

MGIII wrote...
It is majorily redundant. Cloaking to one shot an enemy that can be one hsotted without is redundant. It only becomes useful against bosses or very heavily armored enemies, which are rare compared to the other quantity of enemies.

Cloack is good for avoiding damage in the first place. Still it doesn't really help with this 'omgicankillfast' thing everyone seems to be so exited about.

[MGIII]

MANoob wrote...

MGIII wrote...
It is majorily redundant. Cloaking to one shot an enemy that can be one hsotted without is redundant. It only becomes useful against bosses or very heavily armored enemies, which are rare compared to the other quantity of enemies.

Cloack is good for avoiding damage in the first place. Still it doesn't really help with this 'omgicankillfast' thing everyone seems to be so exited about.

Well, with a one-shotting SR, you should never be in harm's way. So, I guess that too can be redundant.

TC is best used for bosses in all cases. Those things are so tedious to kill, more damage is always welcome.

[WillieStyle]

MGIII wrote...

It is majorily redundant. Cloaking to one shot an enemy that can be one hsotted without is redundant. It only becomes useful against bosses or very heavily armored enemies, which are rare compared to the other quantity of enemies.

TC's uses are against boss caliber characters. Otherwise, it's redundant except for getting out of sticky situations.

That's not what the word "Redundant" means.  I think you mean"Situational."
As long as there are some situations where using claok for the damage boost is useful, then it isn't redundant.

Furhermore, enemies that can't be 1-shot without cloak aren't exactly rare.
They include:
Krogen,
Merc. Heavies,
Merc. Vanguards,
Heavy Mechs,
Geth Prime,
Geth Destroyers,
Geth Collusi,
Scions,
Praetorians,
Gunships,
Harbinger.

Also, cloak + heavy pistol head shot is great for those annoying flamethrower-wielding mobs hiding behind corners.

[WillieStyle]

MGIII wrote...

Well, with a one-shotting SR, you should never be in harm's way. So, I guess that too can be redundant.

I don't like when people say things like this.  Maybe you "should" never be in harm's way, but you often are.  People have finite reflexes and awereness.

Also, there are situations where a bunch of enemies are charge your position where you simply can't kill them all before they get to you.  In such situations, you can use cloak to get out of dodge, or even just have them turn around and chase one of your squadmates on the other side of the screen.

[MGIII]

WillieStyle wrote...

MGIII wrote...

It is majorily redundant. Cloaking to one shot an enemy that can be one hsotted without is redundant. It only becomes useful against bosses or very heavily armored enemies, which are rare compared to the other quantity of enemies.

TC's uses are against boss caliber characters. Otherwise, it's redundant except for getting out of sticky situations.

That's not what the word "Redundant" means.  I think you mean"Situational."
As long as there are some situations where using claok for the damage boost is useful, then it isn't redundant.

Furhermore, enemies that can't be 1-shot without cloak aren't exactly rare.
They include:
Krogen,
Merc. Heavies,
Merc. Vanguards,
Heavy Mechs,
Geth Prime,
Geth Destroyers,
Geth Collusi,
Scions,
Praetorians,
Gunships,
Harbinger.

Also, cloak + heavy pistol head shot is great for those annoying flamethrower-wielding mobs hiding behind corners.

Situational would work, yes, but given that I'm talking about damage, most of it would be redundant and unneeded given that much less would produce the same results. That's what efficiency is. But, it can be argued that it doesn't matter either way. Ah, semantics.

If your point was that when it comes to the SR, Soldiers/Infies > Vanguards, then you're right. That's true. In general, however, I disagree.

Modifié par MGIII, 08 février 2010 - 07:44 .

[Ingahootz]

MGIII wrote...

Situational would work, yes, but given that I'm talking about damage, most of it would be redundant and unneeded given that much less would produce the same results. That's what efficiency is. But, it can be argued that it doesn't matter either way. Ah, semantics.

If your point was that when it comes to the SR, Soldiers/Infies > Vanguards, then you're right. That's true. In general, however, I disagree.

Well if we're talking about damage, then using cloak to pick off enemies and having to take cover less would net a higher damage rate. It might not show as much of the damage bonus from cloak would be over kill, but you'd net more damage out put over time this way.

I know it's slightly nit picking but the damage rate would definitely add up over time. If you're only talking about RAW damage against one target, then cloak is definitely over kill.

[MANoob]

MGIII wrote...

Well, with a one-shotting SR, you should never be in harm's way. So, I guess that too can be redundant.

TC is best used for bosses in all cases. Those things are so tedious to kill, more damage is always welcome.

However you often are. You may be blown out of cover (as an infiltrator you can't really do anything here, instant death), charged, flanked e. t. c. In many of these situations cloack may help.

Modifié par MANoob, 08 février 2010 - 07:56 .

[MGIII]

Ingahootz wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Situational would work, yes, but given that I'm talking about damage, most of it would be redundant and unneeded given that much less would produce the same results. That's what efficiency is. But, it can be argued that it doesn't matter either way. Ah, semantics.

If your point was that when it comes to the SR, Soldiers/Infies > Vanguards, then you're right. That's true. In general, however, I disagree.

Well if we're talking about damage, then using cloak to pick off enemies and having to take cover less would net a higher damage rate. It might not show as much of the damage bonus from cloak would be over kill, but you'd net more damage out put over time this way.

I know it's slightly nit picking but the damage rate would definitely add up over time. If you're only talking about RAW damage against one target, then cloak is definitely over kill.

But the extra damage is just that: overkill. It's not like it goes towards anything constructive.

[Ingahootz]

MGIII wrote...

But the extra damage is just that: overkill. It's not like it goes towards anything constructive.

Well yes it is over kill. The point I was trying to make is that by cloaking and having to take cover less (since you don't get shot at with cloak up) would net more sniper shots, which would net more damage over time.

IMO cloaking on cool down isn't a bad idea if you're going to get shot at despite the extra damage going to waste.

Modifié par Ingahootz, 09 février 2010 - 03:18 .

[sinosleep]

vhatever wrote...

Haha. I think Mord needs to play on insanity before offfering insight..

Sino, how did you even get Samara with reave on the collector ship anyway? That mission never opens up for me until after that's cleared. Not like AoE reave is really anything to write home about on insanity. And an AoE reave won't even take down a drones barrier on insanity. They usually spawn in "2 drone 1 ass or/and 1 guardian" groups on the ship

Sorry I thought he was talking about the end game collector ship.

[Graunt]

Mordigan wrote...

lockerlocke wrote...

While fun and viable, when discussing Optimality, vanguards have no place, especially concerning Insanity because their optimal functionality--that is, charging around like a biotic pinball with a shotgun--only works in specific situations.

I'm surprised anyone could come to this conclusion after watching the videos that sinosleep uploaded..

It's like watching a demonstration on how good boats are going across water and acting like they are viable to travel across the ground too.  And you can't argue about how bad they are, because there's no "video proof" to show how they are literally a fish out of water.  You must not understand propaganda very well. Lockerlocke pretty much summed up what I've been repeating in this thread, just with different words.  I'm sure it's just a matter of intelligence and skill though, because this game is really super deep and takes a "pro" to do anything with it.

Give a Vanguard a sniper rifle and they're as potent as any Soldier or Infiltrator

Except for the fact that they don't get the same kind of damage bonuses?

Modifié par Graunt, 09 février 2010 - 07:23 .

[sinosleep]

Graunt, do yourself a favor and just bow out of this discussion. Or go back to the quote fest a couple a page or two back where I made you look like an idiot. There were very specific reasons why I said what I said in regards to being good. That being that when at first the videos weren't good enough, now they are so good you accuse me of cheating because you can't replicate the results. That's why I've been taking digs at your skill. I've said in other threads that my strategy shouldn't really be all that hard to duplicate. And I also responded to Lockerlocke, he's WRONG. The vast majority of the game allows you to charge at will. If anything, the places where you can't charge are the isolated instances being as they make up next to none of the gameplay.

Modifié par sinosleep, 09 février 2010 - 07:20 .

[Graunt]

sinosleep wrote...

Graunt, do yourself a favor and just bow out of this discussion. Or go back to the quote fest a couple a page or two back where I made you look like an idiot. There were very specific reasons why I said what I said.

Notice this is all you can come up with TO PWN ON THE INTERNETS WITH.  Instead of any rational and valid arguement it's just "LOOK SEE, LOOK AT WHAT I CAN DO UNDER OPTIMAL CIRCUMSTANCES GUYS, I"M BAD ASS1111one one one! AND I TOTALLY SHOWED YOU111!"  Just shut up already, only two people in this thread believe the Vanguard is something they aren't.

[sinosleep]

Graunt, again, go back a couple of pages. I quoted your hypocritical ass a bunch of times and made you look like a fool. Do you need me to quote myself, so that you can see that again on page 15 now to see if it sinks in? You are nothing but a hypocrite and liar, and have added nothing to this discussion. Got be a distraction somewhere else.

Modifié par sinosleep, 09 février 2010 - 07:24 .

[MGIII]

Graunt wrote...

Mordigan wrote...

lockerlocke wrote...

While fun and viable, when discussing Optimality, vanguards have no place, especially concerning Insanity because their optimal functionality--that is, charging around like a biotic pinball with a shotgun--only works in specific situations.

I'm surprised anyone could come to this conclusion after watching the videos that sinosleep uploaded..

It's like watching a demonstration on how good boats are going across water and acting like they are viable to travel across the ground too.  And you can't argue about how bad they are, because there's no "video proof" to show how they are literally a fish out of water.  You must not understand propaganda very well. Lockerlocke pretty much summed up what I've been repeating in this thread, just with different words.  I'm sure it's just a matter of intelligence and skill though, because this game is really super deep and takes a "pro" to do anything with it.

Again, optimal =/= easier. And saying things like "you'll see a lot of reloads" (which is wholly irrelevant) means you have no other argument to fall back on. The vast majority of fights in this game are waves of enemies coming in and shooting at you from behind cover, so a Rushdown Vanguard tactic is viable pretty much the whole game. They can use an SR for enemies that cannot be Charged, and Reave-Heavy Weapon/SMG w/ Incend. ammo for bossses. 

I think people are used to only doing one thing with an Infiltrator or Soldier, which is snipe things, and only snipe things, so they must think that a Vanguard's case for "optimality" (which is playing the class at it's best, not to say going through the game the "fastest") is completely contingent on Charge only. That is not the case. Vanguards can be effective with an SR (one-shot normal enemies), or Charge them...or Reave enemies, pull them, or toss multiple enemies around with Shockwave.

[sinosleep]

The worst part of this whole thing is that in the op you said

MGIII wrote...
What I want to stress, however, this not about which class is more fun or whether one is better than another. I want to avoid all that. What I want to achieve is a consensus on the peak ability each class has to offer in ME2's metagame.

Nothing more, nothing less.

This wasn't supposed to be a class war. It was supposed to be a thread about how to optimize each individual class. I came into this thread not to put down other classes, originally not even to big up the vanguard, my first post was this

sinosleep wrote...

Shotguns are fine, I 2 shot fully armored enemies with the claymore shotgun just fine and dandy.

That look like I was looking for a fight?

Modifié par sinosleep, 09 février 2010 - 07:36 .

[Graunt]

MGIII wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Mordigan wrote...

lockerlocke wrote...

While fun and viable, when discussing Optimality, vanguards have no place, especially concerning Insanity because their optimal functionality--that is, charging around like a biotic pinball with a shotgun--only works in specific situations.

I'm surprised anyone could come to this conclusion after watching the videos that sinosleep uploaded..

It's like watching a demonstration on how good boats are going across water and acting like they are viable to travel across the ground too.  And you can't argue about how bad they are, because there's no "video proof" to show how they are literally a fish out of water.  You must not understand propaganda very well. Lockerlocke pretty much summed up what I've been repeating in this thread, just with different words.  I'm sure it's just a matter of intelligence and skill though, because this game is really super deep and takes a "pro" to do anything with it.

Again, optimal =/= easier. And saying things like "you'll see a lot of reloads" (which is wholly irrelevant) means you have no other argument to fall back on. The vast majority of fights in this game are waves of enemies coming in and shooting at you from behind cover, so a Rushdown Vanguard tactic is viable pretty much the whole game. They can use an SR for enemies that cannot be Charged, and Reave-Heavy Weapon/SMG w/ Incend. ammo for bossses. 

I think people are used to only doing one thing with an Infiltrator or Soldier, which is snipe things, and only snipe things, so they must think that a Vanguard's case for "optimality" (which is playing the class at it's best, not to say going through the game the "fastest") is completely contingent on Charge only. That is not the case. Vanguards can be effective with an SR (one-shot normal enemies), or Charge them...or Reave enemies, pull them, or toss multiple enemies around with Shockwave.

Sorry what?  This thread was created by you to talk about the class defining abilities and you can't possibly argue with a straight face that the Vanguard doesn't get stuck on the sidelines for a very large portion of the game until the ranks are thinned out.  In fact, give me a few days and I'll tell you exactly how many enemies you can never use charge on whether it's because of them being grouped up too much (or enemies behind other rows of enemies) or simply up on an unreachable wall.  No other class is limited by the maps on whether or not they can actually even use their class ability.  Stop talking about what a Vanguard *can* do in X situation that doesn't include charge, every class has that option.

This thread really needs to have a focus, or at least make up your mind on what you actually think are valid discussions because it's bounced around from class ability to best speed run class to how to play each class the most effectively and tends to switch gears whenever someone doesn't really want to discuss any particular aspect.

Modifié par Graunt, 09 février 2010 - 07:45 .

[MGIII]

sinosleep wrote...

The worst part of this whole thing is that in the op you said

MGIII wrote...
What I want to stress, however, this not about which class is more fun or whether one is better than another. I want to avoid all that. What I want to achieve is a consensus on the peak ability each class has to offer in ME2's metagame.

Nothing more, nothing less.

This wasn't supposed to be a class war. It was supposed to be a thread about how to optimize each individual class. I came into this thread not to put down other classes, originally not even to big up the vanguard, my first post was this

sinosleep wrote...

Shotguns are fine, I 2 shot fully armored enemies with the claymore shotgun just fine and dandy.

That look like I was looking for a fight?

I think that things have stayed objective, more or less. I knew there'd be some loose ends where opinion on which class was "better" would come into it, but on the whole, I've learned a lot about other classes I didn't finish the game with yet, and how I'm going to optimize them.

[sinosleep]

If I post each and every mission in the game 1 by 1, and charge at nearly everything for the majority of the game are you going to accuse me of cheating again? I honestly don't even know if I have the hard drive space for all that video but it's getting to the point where I might do it just to make you look silly, again.

[MGIII]

Graunt wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Mordigan wrote...

lockerlocke wrote...

While fun and viable, when discussing Optimality, vanguards have no place, especially concerning Insanity because their optimal functionality--that is, charging around like a biotic pinball with a shotgun--only works in specific situations.

I'm surprised anyone could come to this conclusion after watching the videos that sinosleep uploaded..

It's like watching a demonstration on how good boats are going across water and acting like they are viable to travel across the ground too.  And you can't argue about how bad they are, because there's no "video proof" to show how they are literally a fish out of water.  You must not understand propaganda very well. Lockerlocke pretty much summed up what I've been repeating in this thread, just with different words.  I'm sure it's just a matter of intelligence and skill though, because this game is really super deep and takes a "pro" to do anything with it.

Again, optimal =/= easier. And saying things like "you'll see a lot of reloads" (which is wholly irrelevant) means you have no other argument to fall back on. The vast majority of fights in this game are waves of enemies coming in and shooting at you from behind cover, so a Rushdown Vanguard tactic is viable pretty much the whole game. They can use an SR for enemies that cannot be Charged, and Reave-Heavy Weapon/SMG w/ Incend. ammo for bossses. 

I think people are used to only doing one thing with an Infiltrator or Soldier, which is snipe things, and only snipe things, so they must think that a Vanguard's case for "optimality" (which is playing the class at it's best, not to say going through the game the "fastest") is completely contingent on Charge only. That is not the case. Vanguards can be effective with an SR (one-shot normal enemies), or Charge them...or Reave enemies, pull them, or toss multiple enemies around with Shockwave.

Sorry what?  This thread was created by you to talk about the class defining abilities and you can't possibly argue with a straight face that the Vanguard doesn't get stuck on the sidelines for a very large portion of the game until the ranks are thinned out.  In fact, give me a few days and I'll tell you exactly how many enemies you can never use charge on whether it's because of them being grouped up too much (or enemies behind other rows of enemies) or simply up on an unreachable wall.  No other class is limited by the maps on whether or not they can actually even use their class ability.  Stop talking about what a Vanguard *can* do in X situation that doesn't include charge, every class has that option.

Well, how about this: Name a situation that isn't a "boss" (i.e, Heavy mechs, Praets, Scions) and I'll snipe the enemies that can't be Charged and then Rushdown the rest. Simple as. I'll try to put up the video as fast as I can (my play time is somewhat limited), so forgive me if I don't immediately accomplish it.

[MGIII]

sinosleep wrote...

If I post each and every mission in the game 1 by 1, and charge at nearly everything for the majority of the game are you going to accuse me of cheating again? I honestly don't even know if I have the hard drive space for all that video but it's getting to the point where I might do it just to make you look silly, again.

Eerie how we had similar responses. I'm too lazy to play every encounter, though, just enough sample sizes to prove their legitimacy in most encounters.