532 réponses à ce sujet

[MANoob]

Hoffburger wrote...

Because Sentinel gets Overload and Warp so they can get AP/Warp ammo as their extra power without losing any offense. Tech Armor also boosts their power damage if they can keep it up during the fight (not worth using in the middle of the fight due to the 12 second cooldown).

Adepts are just watered down Sentinels, Engineers are more of the same except they get the best CC ability in the game, but that doesn't help with speed.

Written by a person who obviously haven't played these classes enough.

Sentinel is not about warp spam at all, you do that only if you are pinned down or have a bad position for targeting (or just for extra damage and brief stun while shooting). Tech armor has 6 seconds cd after -20% upgrade and guardian. Furthermore it stuns everything in 18m radius for a second or two  (shielded enemies, unshielded are knocked down) when destroyed and regenerates half of  base your shields (I mean assault armor, because power armor isn't really worth it, +15% power damage are not that cool as you might think). That means that in mid range fights you are nearly invicible. You can easily beat a scion and a bunch of husks with your bare hands (well, vanguard can do this too). So tech armor is definetely worth using in a fight, in fact a high level sentinel that spams tech armor usually goes to cover only to reload his weapon. Sentilnel != adept or engineer, its more like a heavily armored assault trooper than a power using specialist.

As for engineer, drone helps with speed too, because it can be used to force your enemies out of cover = dead, in fights vs single armored targets like heavy mech it allows you to constantly fire without taking cover. Also, overall incinerate is better than warp (unless you're able to use warp explosion), its not effective vs syntetics or barriers, but its better at everything else and has some nice bonuses like detonating flamethrower mobs. Also, incinerate is an aoe ability, warp deals aoe damage only in case of warp explosion.

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

Regular AR does something like 100% damage. I think the heightened AR has around 125% bonus damage, maybe 135%. estimates from my soldier playthroughs.

HOWEVER, the time dialtion slows you, too. So, it's a double edges sword. unless you are doing high front loaded damage, like a widow, the time dilation cancels much of the damage out you would be doing. And, relative to having a 50% decrease damage, Meh.They basically added it to keep the skill from actually being a "Downgrade", it is already a downgrade if are a machine gunning soldier.

Well if it's increasing your damage by the same amount that it is decreasing your RoF then it doesn't matter. It makes it easier to get headshots and if you get Hardened (which you should because you will never do more DPS by using AR) then you get a damage absorb as well.

I don't really see the point of not spamming AR every time it is up because the weapons do far more damage than any of the powers can and AP/Warp ammo is better than the other ammos that Soldiers have.

[Hoffburger]

Double Post

Modifié par Hoffburger, 09 février 2010 - 08:15 .

[Hoffburger]

MANoob wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

Because Sentinel gets Overload and Warp so they can get AP/Warp ammo as their extra power without losing any offense. Tech Armor also boosts their power damage if they can keep it up during the fight (not worth using in the middle of the fight due to the 12 second cooldown).

Adepts are just watered down Sentinels, Engineers are more of the same except they get the best CC ability in the game, but that doesn't help with speed.

Written by a person who obviously haven't played these classes enough.

Sentinel is not about warp spam at all, you do that only if you are pinned down or have a bad position for targeting (or just for extra damage and brief stun while shooting). Tech armor has 6 seconds cd after -20% upgrade and guardian. Furthermore it stuns everything in 18m radius for a second or two  (shielded enemies, unshielded are knocked down) when destroyed and regenerates half of  base your shields (I mean assault armor, because power armor isn't really worth it, +15% power damage are not that cool as you might think). That means that in mid range fights you are nearly invicible. You can easily beat a scion and a bunch of husks with your bare hands (well, vanguard can do this too). So tech armor is definetely worth using in a fight, in fact a high level sentinel that spams tech armor usually goes to cover only to reload his weapon. Sentilnel != adept or engineer, its more like a heavily armored assault trooper than a power using specialist.

As for engineer, drone helps with speed too, because it can be used to force your enemies out of cover = dead, in fights vs single armored targets like heavy mech it allows you to constantly fire without taking cover. Also, overall incinerate is better than warp (unless you're able to use warp explosion), its not effective vs syntetics or barriers, but its better at everything else and has some nice bonuses like detonating flamethrower mobs. Also, incinerate is an aoe ability, warp deals aoe damage only in case of warp explosion.

Written by a person who has no clue what they are talking about and plays on Normal.

Modifié par Hoffburger, 09 février 2010 - 08:17 .

[MANoob]

Hoffburger wrote...
Written by a person who has no clue what they are talking about and plays on Normal.

I play on insanity and know what Im saying, thanks.

[vhatever]

There is no reason not to spam AR, unless you are in point blank range with the revenant and you are down to your last enemy to kill. You still have a much higher DPS outside of AR mode.



Like i said, heightened is better if you want to play "bang, you're dead" sniper mode.

[Graunt]

MANoob wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

Because Sentinel gets Overload and Warp so they can get AP/Warp ammo as their extra power without losing any offense. Tech Armor also boosts their power damage if they can keep it up during the fight (not worth using in the middle of the fight due to the 12 second cooldown).

Adepts are just watered down Sentinels, Engineers are more of the same except they get the best CC ability in the game, but that doesn't help with speed.

Written by a person who obviously haven't played these classes enough.

Sentinel is not about warp spam at all, you do that only if you are pinned down or have a bad position for targeting (or just for extra damage and brief stun while shooting). Tech armor has 6 seconds cd after -20% upgrade and guardian. Furthermore it stuns everything in 18m radius for a second or two  (shielded enemies, unshielded are knocked down) when destroyed and regenerates half of  base your shields (I mean assault armor, because power armor isn't really worth it, +15% power damage are not that cool as you might think). That means that in mid range fights you are nearly invicible. You can easily beat a scion and a bunch of husks with your bare hands (well, vanguard can do this too). So tech armor is definetely worth using in a fight, in fact a high level sentinel that spams tech armor usually goes to cover only to reload his weapon. Sentilnel != adept or engineer, its more like a heavily armored assault trooper than a power using specialist.

As for engineer, drone helps with speed too, because it can be used to force your enemies out of cover = dead, in fights vs single armored targets like heavy mech it allows you to constantly fire without taking cover. Also, overall incinerate is better than warp (unless you're able to use warp explosion), its not effective vs syntetics or barriers, but its better at everything else and has some nice bonuses like detonating flamethrower mobs. Also, incinerate is an aoe ability, warp deals aoe damage only in case of warp explosion.

My Sentinel is only level 11, so I can't comment on anything mid-late game, but my playstyle has revolved around Tech Armor and just shooting weapons with the occasional overload.  In fact, I probably won't even have Warp on mine at all and would either just pickup Warp Ammo or Reave and leave Warp to Miranda or even Thane.  I'm not arguing whether or not the Sentinel is a better "Warp bot" over an Adept, but so far that's not how I've been using them and I wouldn't be able to even do that for another 4-5 levels anyway and that's if I had bothered to put anything into Warp instead of Overload.  There's really no point in even picking up Warp though over Reave unless you just don't want to bring either of the other members that can cast it and you would need to bring Samara in that case.

Modifié par Graunt, 09 février 2010 - 08:36 .

[MANoob]

Graunt wrote...
My Sentinel is only level 11, so I can't comment on anything mid-late
game, but my playstyle has revolved around Tech Armor and just shooting
weapons with the occasional overload.  In fact, I probably won't even
have Warp on mine at all and would either just pickup Warp Ammo or
Reave and leave Warp to Miranda or even Thane.  I'm not arguing whether
or not the Sentinel is a better "Warp bot" over an Adept, but so far
that's not how I've been using them and I wouldn't be able to even do
that for another 4-5 levels anyway and that's if I had bothered to put
anything into Warp instead of Overload.  There's really no point in
even picking up Warp though over Reave unless you just don't want to
bring either of the other members that can cast it and you would need
to bring Samara in that case.

In fact early levels are best suited for warp spamming, so if you didn't use it then you probably won't use it at all. Tech armor becomes godly once you get -50% on cooldowns and assault armor. Overload is good due to aoe and some CC (even if it doesn't work against shielded enemies).

Sentinel is a better warp bot than adept but being a warp bot is a bad tactic even for adept.

Modifié par MANoob, 09 février 2010 - 08:43 .

[Graunt]

MANoob wrote...

Graunt wrote...
My Sentinel is only level 11, so I can't comment on anything mid-late
game, but my playstyle has revolved around Tech Armor and just shooting
weapons with the occasional overload.  In fact, I probably won't even
have Warp on mine at all and would either just pickup Warp Ammo or
Reave and leave Warp to Miranda or even Thane.  I'm not arguing whether
or not the Sentinel is a better "Warp bot" over an Adept, but so far
that's not how I've been using them and I wouldn't be able to even do
that for another 4-5 levels anyway and that's if I had bothered to put
anything into Warp instead of Overload.  There's really no point in
even picking up Warp though over Reave unless you just don't want to
bring either of the other members that can cast it and you would need
to bring Samara in that case.

In fact early levels are best suited for warp spamming, so if you didn't use it then you probably won't use it at all. Tech armor becomes godly once you get -50% on cooldowns and assault armor. Overload is good due to aoe and some CC (even if it doesn't work against shielded enemies).

Sentinel is a better warp bot than adept but being a warp bot is a bad tactics even for adept.

Overload is good not only for it's CC after shields are gone, but for the simple fact that it completely rapes shields in the first place and makes most Geth encounters an utter joke.  It also makes most Blue Sons encounters a joke. All you need is at least two characters on any non Geth (and mostly shielded) fight with area Overload (Garrus preferred), three if you want to cheese Geth.  I also don't really understand the Warp attraction if you don't already have Reave or Singularity, but since we are talking about how gimped the Adept is compared to the Sentinel, you wouldn't have Singularity anyway.  I would rather have Zaeed for his grenade to take care of armor areas, plus it does extremely good damage.  

If you build up Miranda to have rank 4 Overload and Warp before her passive, I don't know that she would really contribute more outright damage than someone else just based off Warp alone.  After her passive, I'm still not sure she's the best fit for all groups.  She certainly is one of the most versatile characters for most groups at the very least.

Modifié par Graunt, 09 février 2010 - 08:50 .

[MANoob]

Graunt wrote...
Overload is good not only for it's CC after shields are gone, but for the simple fact that it completely rapes shields in the first place and makes most Geth encounters an utter joke.  It also makes most Blue Sons encounters a joke. All you need is at least two characters on any non Geth (and mostly shielded) fight with area Overload (Garrus preferred), three if you want to cheese Geth.  I also don't really understand the Warp attraction if you don't already have Reave or Singularity, but since we are talking about how gimped the Adept is compared to the Sentinel, you wouldn't have Singularity anyway.  I would rather have Zaeed for his grenade to take care of armor areas, plus it does extremely good damage.

Well, once you have tech armor, overload, passive skill and bonus skill you'll have to get warp anyway (unless you want to max trow or cryo, but 1 point is more than enough for these skills and you'll have throw 2 if you want to get warp). That been said getting warp 1 early on isn't such a bad idea because it can help you to save ammo. Personally I don't like reave as a bonus power for sentinel, because you allready have warp, so I'd rather get some type of ammo for exta damage (ofc you can use squad ammo, but its not as good and sentinel doesn't have many damage bonuses).

Modifié par MANoob, 09 février 2010 - 09:01 .

[MANoob]

double post

Modifié par MANoob, 09 février 2010 - 09:01 .

[vhatever]

Meh. Overload is majorly overrated if you tend to use SMG. I only put it up to 3 on miranda and never touch it again on all my characters. Tempest with the 50% damage bonus to shields basically evaporates shields. There are only like 2 geth-centric missions anyway. Warp is often better on teammates than you, especailly if your other teammate has lift. press two buttons and lift+ explode a non protected enemy. Explodes them right where they stand, often times also smacking surrounding enemies. instant biotics are pretty cool.

[Graunt]

vhatever wrote...

Meh. Overload is majorly overrated if you tend to use SMG. I only put it up to 3 on miranda and never touch it again on all my characters. Tempest with the 50% damage bonus to shields basically evaporates shields. There are only like 2 geth-centric missions anyway. Warp is often better on teammates than you, especailly if your other teammate has lift. press two buttons and lift+ explode a non protected enemy. Explodes them right where they stand, often times also smacking surrounding enemies. instant biotics are pretty cool.

You don't have access to the SMG until Tali.  Even after that, the thing is highly inaccurate regardless of your l33t FPS skills.  All of the time you spent mowing down shield after shield could have just been used to actually damage the enemies after one cooldown completely removed shields from 2-4 enemies at once.

And does pull even count as an applied biotic for Warp to explode before defenses are gone?  Otherwise it's pretty much a waste of two cooldowns.  That's the point of having Reave in the first place.  On anything with a barrier, armor or no defenses it's a guaranteed application for Warp to explode.

Modifié par Graunt, 09 février 2010 - 09:13 .

[vhatever]

I didn't read through your build, man. I was just saying warp is especially useful on an NPC because they can insant detonate. If you got reave, you are good. I'd probably have an ammo skill on a sentinel but w/e.

[Graunt]

vhatever wrote...

I didn't read through your build, man. I was just saying warp is especially useful on an NPC because they can insant detonate. If you got reave, you are good. I'd probably have an ammo skill on a sentinel but w/e.

I'm undecided on what I want to get as a bonus.  The ammo seems like it would be the most all around useful, but it progressively gets weaker when your allies start dropping like flies.  On the other hand, it's good for all of those times you need to crouch because you're the only one getting focus fired on while the rest of your squad can continually fire.

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

There is no reason not to spam AR, unless you are in point blank range with the revenant and you are down to your last enemy to kill. You still have a much higher DPS outside of AR mode.

Like i said, heightened is better if you want to play "bang, you're dead" sniper mode.

You don't have a higher DPS because time slows down by half but your damage is doubled. So you do the same DPS.

[vhatever]

Hoffburger wrote...

vhatever wrote...

There is no reason not to spam AR, unless you are in point blank range with the revenant and you are down to your last enemy to kill. You still have a much higher DPS outside of AR mode.

Like i said, heightened is better if you want to play "bang, you're dead" sniper mode.

You don't have a higher DPS because time slows down by half but your damage is doubled. So you do the same DPS.

You do have higher DPS if you are using the "one-shot, one-kill" weapons. And you have an easier time lining up headshots.

How many god damn times do I have to say it? you'd think that after getting proven wrong by me for days on end you would think more about what I say and post less. Jesus christ dude, I'm the one that's TELLING YOU how this stuff works.

Do you never god damn learn? I know wtf I am talking about. You, not so much.

Modifié par vhatever, 09 février 2010 - 09:34 .

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

vhatever wrote...

There is no reason not to spam AR, unless you are in point blank range with the revenant and you are down to your last enemy to kill. You still have a much higher DPS outside of AR mode.

Like i said, heightened is better if you want to play "bang, you're dead" sniper mode.

You don't have a higher DPS because time slows down by half but your damage is doubled. So you do the same DPS.

You do have higher DPS if you are using the "one-shot, one-kill" weapons. And you have an easier time lining up headshots.

How many god damn times do I have to say it? you'd think that after getting proven wrong by me for days on end you would think more about what I say and post less. Jesus christ dude, I'm the one that's TELLING YOU how this stuff works.

Do you never god damn learn? I know wtf I am talking about. You, not so much.

Way to pull a complete 180 on your argument within an hour. You don't do more DPS, if your RoF/Reload speed slows down to 1/2 speed and your damage increases by 2x, your DPS doesn't increase. It's not rocket science, but someone with an IQ < their age wouldn't understand that.

[vhatever]

Good god are you the dumbest person I have ever met?



Jebus.



1 shot weapon, widow. 380 base damage. When using non-heighterned AR, you only get a 100% damage bonus, but with heightened you get another 135% or so damage. Both versions of AR can only fire of an AR-supported widow shot ONCE a AR usage.



It is god damn the most basic math on the planet 135%> 100%



Do you god damn get it yet, kid?

[kznlol]

Graunt wrote...

Stupid question, but are you using at least rank 1 disruptor rounds?  The last time I faced a bunch of legionaires was when recruiting Jack at level 7-8, and cloak + headhot most definitely took all of their shields down and half of their life as well.  Are you also using the headshot visor?

I was using rank 2 Shredder. Now, I don't know for a fact how ammo damage is calculated when its not initially hitting its specialty, but my experience was that Shredder was a far better ammo than Disruptor for mainstay use. I could be wrong, I guess.

I don't have the visor, no, because I rushed to Korlus. The visor would make cloaked headshots on the human mercs kills (they aren't without it), but regardless, the fact that you have to cloak to get the headshot to kill makes it take way too long per kill. You go faster through the first section where all of the mobs are humans, but the moment legionnaires and heavies enter the picture you slow down immediately.

Moreover, my guess was right - the SMG is worthless. Without an assault rifle, you cannot get through tougher mobs anywhere near as fast as I did, let alone as fast as a vanguard can. Assault rifles are also significantly more forgiving, because every time you miss a headshot with the starter rifle you've basically added 10 seconds to your time, and you _will_ miss some shots over the course of a full playthrough.

[edit] That said, for a speedrun your ideal weapons are going to be an assault rifle and starter sniper rifle, basically.

Modifié par kznlol, 09 février 2010 - 10:53 .

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

Good god are you the dumbest person I have ever met?

Jebus.

1 shot weapon, widow. 380 base damage. When using non-heighterned AR, you only get a 100% damage bonus, but with heightened you get another 135% or so damage. Both versions of AR can only fire of an AR-supported widow shot ONCE a AR usage.

It is god damn the most basic math on the planet 135%> 100%

Do you god damn get it yet, kid?

You didn't ever explain your argument fully, you were arguing that you did more DPS by not using AR period. Then you switched and started arguing some other stuff. You never said anything about the Widow doing more damage with one version of AR over another (which is obvious). You fail again. Your ignorance is astounding, it's like you are so mad that people don't agree with you that you just start typing without thinking. Your arguments are all over the place, you can't form a coherent argument. Thank you, come again.

Modifié par Hoffburger, 09 février 2010 - 11:16 .

[vhatever]

Hoffburger wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Good god are you the dumbest person I have ever met?

Jebus.

1 shot weapon, widow. 380 base damage. When using non-heighterned AR, you only get a 100% damage bonus, but with heightened you get another 135% or so damage. Both versions of AR can only fire of an AR-supported widow shot ONCE a AR usage.

It is god damn the most basic math on the planet 135%> 100%

Do you god damn get it yet, kid?

You didn't ever explain your argument fully, you were arguing that you did more DPS by not using AR period. Then you switched and started arguing some other stuff. You never said anything about the Widow doing more damage with one version of AR over another (which is obvious). You fail again. Your ignorance is astounding, it's like you are so mad that people don't agree with you that you just start typing without thinking. Your arguments are all over the place, you can't form a coherent argument. Thank you, come again.

You didn't ask me to fully explain.And I don't have to god damn explain ever single detail to your ass, punk. Like usual, you just make this crap up as you go when you are shown to be nothing more than a moron with with a big moith. I said that if you picked an infiltrator just to play a one shot-one kill type character, you made a big mistake because the soldier is simply much better at it with heightened AR. 

I mean, jesus christ, I sat there and god damn explaiend why heightened sucks for 90% of soldiers. All you needed, and what you apparently lack, is a first grader's reading comprehension.

[WillieStyle]

Hoffburger wrote...


Well if it's increasing your damage by the same amount that it is decreasing your RoF then it doesn't matter. It makes it easier to get headshots and if you get Hardened (which you should because you will never do more DPS by using AR) then you get a damage absorb as well.

I think this is a poor use of the concept of "dps."
Why is dps important?  Because:
1) It allows you to kill things faster so you spend less "real world time" in fights.
2) It allows you to kill the enemy quickly limitting the amount of hurt it can lay on you.

If all you care about is reason 1, then yes Adrenaline Rush doesn't net you anything.
But if you care about reason 2 - and I think most people do - then Adrenaline Rush is a HUGE advantage essentially cutting the dps of all enemies in half while also making them easier to hit and making it easier for you to navigate the battle field.

[WillieStyle]

The "one-shot, one-kill" dps boost argument is kinda weak since you can't turnoff Adrenaline Rush. If you could, then yes, it would increase both your "real world" and relative dps with 1 shot weapons like the Widow.

[MGIII]

Hoffburger wrote...

So I finally got around to actually testing the weapons using FRAPS. The Widow fires at about one round every two seconds while the Viper fires at four per second. When scoping in and using the 2.25 seconds of time dilation you can only get off three rounds of the Viper, the fourth can only come out if it is fired before you zoom in or a split second after the dilation stops.

This was tested using FRAPS and a G15 keyboard set with a macro to mouse click every .01 seconds.

Thanks for doing this.