532 réponses à ce sujet

[vhatever]

Get lost Willie. You don't know wtf you are talking about. A soldier deals for more one shot damage, making them superior one-shot, one-kill chaarcters. I'm not making a GOD DAMN ARGUMENT THAT THIS CHARACTER IS THE MOST UBER SOLDIER THERE IS.



ALL I GOD DAMN SAID WAS SOLDIERS PLAY THIS ROLE BETTER THAN INFILTRATORS.



Get your nose out of this discussion if your ass can't be bothered to read through the thread, just as bad as hoffmoron.

[WillieStyle]

Adrenaline Rush increases your "burst" damage. That much is obvious.



However dps or damage per second, implies sustained damage. Adrenaline Rush does not increase your sustained damage per second with ANY weapon.

[vhatever]

Burst damage is ALL the type of damage a "one shot, one kill" sniper character does. That's why you have to know wtf is being talked about before you try to talk about it. Now quit making excuses for your ignorance of the subject at hand and accept you mispoke and perhaps shouldn't have posted at all, let alone calling it "weak".

[AlphaJarmel]

kznlol wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Stupid question, but are you using at least rank 1 disruptor rounds?  The last time I faced a bunch of legionaires was when recruiting Jack at level 7-8, and cloak + headhot most definitely took all of their shields down and half of their life as well.  Are you also using the headshot visor?

I was using rank 2 Shredder. Now, I don't know for a fact how ammo damage is calculated when its not initially hitting its specialty, but my experience was that Shredder was a far better ammo than Disruptor for mainstay use. I could be wrong, I guess.

I don't have the visor, no, because I rushed to Korlus. The visor would make cloaked headshots on the human mercs kills (they aren't without it), but regardless, the fact that you have to cloak to get the headshot to kill makes it take way too long per kill. You go faster through the first section where all of the mobs are humans, but the moment legionnaires and heavies enter the picture you slow down immediately.

Moreover, my guess was right - the SMG is worthless. Without an assault rifle, you cannot get through tougher mobs anywhere near as fast as I did, let alone as fast as a vanguard can. Assault rifles are also significantly more forgiving, because every time you miss a headshot with the starter rifle you've basically added 10 seconds to your time, and you _will_ miss some shots over the course of a full playthrough.

[edit] That said, for a speedrun your ideal weapons are going to be an assault rifle and starter sniper rifle, basically.

LOL you be joking sir.  The second SMG is pretty godly.  The pure amount of damage it does is insane.  

[WillieStyle]

vhatever wrote...

Burst damage is ALL the type of damage a "one shot, one kill" sniper character does.

One can estimate the burst damage and the sustained dps of any character, including characters that use "one shot, one kill" weapons.

Imagine 2 characters:
-Char 1 uses a weapon that deals 1000 damage per shot but fires 1 shot every 5 seconds.
-Char 2 uses a weapon that deals 1000 damage per shot but fires 1 shot ever 10 seconds.'

Both characters are using "one shot, one kill" weapons as their weapons will kill most enemies with a single shot.
The characters have the exact same burst damage.
However, Char 1 has twice the dps of Char 2.

The point of my post isn't just to pick nits with you.  If a Soldier could turnoff Adrenaline Rush before it ran out, then he would basically have a "Super" Tactical Cloak.  Using a weapon like the WIdow, said Soldier could turn on Tactical Cloak for every other Widow shot, then immediately turn it off afterwards. With a 3 sec cooldown, this would significantly increase both burst damage and sustained dps.  
However, becaues Soldiers cannot turn off Adrenaline Rush before it expires, AR only increases burst damage, not sustained dps with a slow hard-hitting weapon like the Widow.

[Graunt]

WillieStyle wrote...

Adrenaline Rush increases your "burst" damage. That much is obvious.

However dps or damage per second, implies sustained damage. Adrenaline Rush does not increase your sustained damage per second with ANY weapon.

No, DPS does not imply continual damage.  If you have 10 enemies in a room and you one shot them all within 60 seconds and no shot was overkill, you did the same "DPS" as what someone using a Vindicator that had a continual RoF and killed them all within 60 seconds did as well.  It's too bad you would never beat a one shot, one kill method in "DPS" using something like an Assault Rifle because of crouching.  The only time burst is beaten is on extremely high hit point enemies, and even then it's debateable whether or not it's even better when you wouldn't keep up the "sustained" damage with Assault Rifles without pause.

Your example in the post directly above this is bad because you are not giving relative kill times.

Modifié par Graunt, 09 février 2010 - 11:53 .

[vhatever]

Just STFU. I have toe fungus smarter than you. You are nitpicking over semantics. You didn't bother to read what was being talked about, neither did hoffmoron. No wonder you came out to his defense or so it seems. Now we have had like a dozen posts on you and hofflamers inability to read simple english.

[WillieStyle]

One more thing: both versions of Adrenaline Rush actually reduce your real-world dps. Damage bonuses in this game are treated additively. This means that if you have any other +X% damage bonuses active, the +100% bonus from Adrenaline Rush DOES NOT double your damage. Since your attacks per second are cut in half, but your damage per attack isn't doubled, your real-world dps goes down under Adrenaline Rush.

Of course, real-world dps isn't that important. Adrenaline Rush still confers a MASSIVE dps boost relative to the enemies you're fighting.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 09 février 2010 - 11:54 .

[vhatever]

Ya, let me stick my revenant out the window and just hold the trigger down, and I'll just count all those as headshots.



Might work out nicely in a spreadsheet -- but we aren't playing spreadsheet. The DPS being talked about in this thread, is about the metagame of whatever chararcter is being talked about.

[lockerlocke]

vhatever wrote...

Just STFU. I have toe fungus smarter than you. You are nitpicking over semantics. You didn't bother to read what was being talked about, neither did hoffmoron. No wonder you came out to his defense or so it seems. Now we have had like a dozen posts on you and hofflamers inability to read simple english.

Someone really needs to get banned.  I think half the posts here are from you, and they are all terrible. 

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

Regular AR does something like 100% damage. I think the heightened AR has around 125% bonus damage, maybe 135%. estimates from my soldier playthroughs.

HOWEVER, the time dialtion slows you, too. So, it's a double edges sword. unless you are doing high front loaded damage, like a widow, the time dilation cancels much of the damage out you would be doing. And, relative to having a 50% decrease damage, Meh.They basically added it to keep the skill from actually being a "Downgrade", it is already a downgrade if are a machine gunning soldier.

vhatever wrote...

There is no reason not to spam AR,
unless you are in point blank range with the revenant and you are down
to your last enemy to kill. You still have a much higher DPS outside of
AR mode.

Like i said, heightened is better if you want to play
"bang, you're dead" sniper mode.

vhatever wrote...

You do have higher DPS if
you are using the "one-shot, one-kill" weapons. And you have an easier
time lining up headshots.

How many god damn times do I have to
say it? you'd think that after getting proven wrong by me for days on
end you would think more about what I say and post less. Jesus christ
dude, I'm the one that's TELLING YOU how this stuff works.

Do
you never god damn learn? I know wtf I am talking about. You, not so
much.

Bolded and underlined since you have down syndrome and need help figuring out your own argument. You start off by arguing that AR decreases your DPS. Then say that it increases your DPS with the Widow (which it doesn't, it stays the same because it slows down your reload). Then after you realize that you are a moron you try to start another argument about how Heightened is better than Hardened, which it isn't. It does more damage but slows time down even more

AR doesn't do anything but make enemies do 50% less damage (or 75% less with Hardened) because it slows everything down and gives you a damage bonus to negate the slowdown.

I'll be back in a couple hours to see what moronic story you make up this time in your feeble attempt to not sound like a Jerry's Kid.

[vhatever]

I'm glad you like my posts so much that you went and read them all.

[Hoffburger]

WillieStyle wrote...

One more thing: both versions of Adrenaline Rush actually reduce your real-world dps. Damage bonuses in this game are treated additively. This means that if you have any other +X% damage bonuses active, the +100% bonus from Adrenaline Rush DOES NOT double your damage. Since your attacks per second are cut in half, but your damage per attack isn't doubled, your real-world dps goes down under Adrenaline Rush.

Of course, real-world dps isn't that important. Adrenaline Rush still confers a MASSIVE dps boost relative to the enemies you're fighting.

Additive is better than multiplicative. +100% is double damage which counters the 1/2 time slowdown.

[vhatever]

AR does decrease your potential DPS, but it it does not decrease the damage of a pure one-shot, one-kill sniper character. Again, it is your simple inability to read and comprehend the most elementary english.

[vhatever]

Thanks a lot willie for providing moron boy more red herrings.

[WillieStyle]

Hoffburger wrote...

Additive is better than multiplicative. +100% is double damage which counters the 1/2 time slowdown.

Huh?! Damage bonuses stacking multiplicatively is always better than stacking additively.

If I have two +100% bonuses that stack additvely, then if my damage before bonuses is X, my damage after bonuses is
X + X + X = 3X.

If I have two double damage bonuses that stack multiplicatively, then if my damage before bonuses is X, my damage after bonuses is
X*2*2= 4X.

If bonuses stacked multiplicatively, then no matter how many other bonuses you had, the double damage bonus from Adrenaline Rush would always double your damage.

But since bonuses stack additvely, the +100% damage bonus only doubles your damage if you have no other bonuses.  If your total damage bonus before Adrenaline Rush is y, then your damage with Adrenaline Rush is
X + yX + X = (2+y)X.
But your damage without  Adrenaline Rush is
X+ yX = (1+y)X.
So Adrenaline Rush increases your damge by
(2+ y)/(1+y) < 2 unless y = 0.

TLDR: Adrenaline Rush only doubles your damage if you have no other damage bonuses.

[Graunt]

Regardless, it's silly to argue whether or not AR is an increase in DPS, the same, or a downgrade when it's most certainly an increase when you factor that it reduces your chance to miss headshots.  I sincerely doubt the vast majority of of even so called expert FPS gamers hit 100% of their attempted headshots on exposed enemies.

[Kurupt87]

additively is better, multiplying percentages is the same as multiplying fractions.

10%+100%=110%

10%*100%=10%

i know which i'd prefer...

[WillieStyle]

A dev just confirmed:

Hardened Adrenaline Rush: 100% damage bonus.

Heightened Adrenaline Rush: 140% damage bonus.

[WillieStyle]

Kurupt87 wrote...

additively is better, multiplying percentages is the same as multiplying fractions.
10%+100%=110%
10%*100%=10%
i know which i'd prefer...

Math is hard.

[Kurupt87]

what i mean is the dmg % increases combine into a single value *before* operating on the actual dmg value, so additively is best.

[WillieStyle]

Kurupt87 wrote...

what i mean is the dmg % increases combine into a single value *before* operating on the actual dmg value, so additively is best.

It makes no sense to treat multiplicative stacking of damage bonuses that way.  If you did, it would mean having two +50% damage bonuses would be worse than having just one of them.  That's obviously meaningless.

[Kurupt87]

that is why its done additively...

what i mean to say is that if the dmg worked the way you thought then yeah, multiplicatively is best, but the way bioware have done it makes addition better.

Modifié par Kurupt87, 10 février 2010 - 01:11 .

[tetracycloide]

Kurupt87 wrote...

additively is better, multiplying percentages is the same as multiplying fractions.
10%+100%=110%
10%*100%=10%
i know which i'd prefer...

Example flawed.  Bonuses differ.  10% and 100%, additive.  -90% and 0%, multiplicative.  Identity function of addition is + 0.  Identity function of multiplication is * 1.  Multiplicative bonuses are thus 110% * 200% = 220%.  Additive 110% bonus plus 100% base.  Total 210%.  I know which I'd prefer.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 10 février 2010 - 05:01 .

[Soruyao]

God vhatever is the most insulting and arrogant and obnoxious person on this entire forum.



He can't have single post that doesn't resort to petty insults that have nothing to do with the topic and changes his argument every single time someone disproves something he's said.



There have been times we've been on the same side of an issue, and he makes me want to argue the other side just to spite him. I agree that he should be banned.



On topic: Keep up the discussion, I like to see the number crunching. This will all come in handy when I go in for a second infiltrator run, maybe. :3