532 réponses à ce sujet

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

Ingahootz wrote...

vhatever wrote...

WTF would I get widow with my soldier when I can do twice its damage with the viper? Buy a clue, Hofflamer your widow fetish gets tiresome.

I can definitely see why he likes it so much. In most cases it's better to one shot trash mobs rather than letting them take cover again. Widow will clear rooms of trash much faster than the viper will in most cases. Viper's better for things that won't get one shot/don't take cover often.

IMO using Widow would clear most of the game quicker.

No it wouldn't. The widow is slow caompred to viper with a soldier. And you can use the viper to stun luck yourself or a teammate out of a bad situation.  Widow is overkill on 75% of mobs that are headshottable, too. I can kill three drones and a harbringer in the time it would take the widow to kill one harbinger.

In short, the viper is much, much better. Unless you are infiltrator, then widow could be better,. But that's what happens when your entire game experience is "infiltrator mode" and you try to offer advice.

You are a moron, there is no way you can kill two drones with a Viper faster than you can kill a harbinger with the Widow. Yet you claim you can kill three drones and a harbinger faster than the WIdow can kill a harbinger.

Again your lack of intellect amazes me, you spew out random filth with no data, you should work for The Climatic Research Unit, you would fit right in.

[Ingahootz]

Heh I don't even think you had to show the math to prove that the Widow is better in most cases. It's common sense that killing something as fast as possible against an AI that likes to hide will net a faster kill rate in the long run.

Edit: I honestly thought the Viper would net work damage in the long run against high hp/armor NPCs that didn't take cover, but I guess that's wrong as well.

Modifié par Ingahootz, 06 février 2010 - 09:19 .

[vhatever]

The widows rate of fire isn't awful? It's a basement of 4 seconds from firing to reloading reacquiring target etc. And if a head shot presents itself while you are busy jerking off your widowmaker, you lost the shot, while the viper is there and ready 75% of the time to drop another half dozen shots down someone's throat. there really arent many times in the game where you need to be concerned about return fire with AR going, Only in areas with rocket launchers is it much of a concern. 2%-3% of the game.

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

The widows rate of fire isn't awful? It's a basement of 4 seconds from firing to reloading reacquiring target etc. And if a head shot presents itself while you are busy jerking off your widowmaker, you lost the shot, while the viper is there and ready 75% of the time to drop another half dozen shots down someone's throat. there really arent many times in the game where you need to be concerned about return fire with AR going, Only in areas with rocket launchers is it much of a concern. 2%-3% of the game.

Jim Carrey - "And the truth shall set you free!"

Thanks for clearing it up that you can't aim, now go back to Runescape while the people who can actually aim discuss the subject.

P.S. It's Widow, not widowmaker.

Modifié par Hoffburger, 06 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[Ingahootz]

You know, in 95% of all cases, you can still head shot a NPC while it's under cover.

Edit: To clarify because I could see this coming from you. This is not with ZOMG HACKS or CHEATS. This is by aiming.

Modifié par Ingahootz, 06 février 2010 - 09:27 .

[vhatever]

Hoffburger wrote...

You are a moron, there is no way you can kill two drones with a Viper faster than you can kill a harbinger with the Widow. Yet you claim you can kill three drones and a harbinger faster than the WIdow can kill a harbinger.

Again your lack of intellect amazes me, you spew out random filth with no data, you should work for The Climatic Research Unit, you would fit right in.

Nice mathemtatical red herring. Don't change the math on me. 3 drones and harbinger is a much more likely scenario than just two drones. You want to change the math to only two targets, so you can grossly over exaggerate the performance of the widow thanks to it's absurd front loaded damage, but most batttles invole a a dozen or so enemies, coming in groups of 4ish. Not waves of 1 and 2. nice try, though, junrior. But , you are way out of your league.

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

You are a moron, there is no way you can kill two drones with a Viper faster than you can kill a harbinger with the Widow. Yet you claim you can kill three drones and a harbinger faster than the WIdow can kill a harbinger.

Again your lack of intellect amazes me, you spew out random filth with no data, you should work for The Climatic Research Unit, you would fit right in.

Nice mathemtatical red herring. Don't change the math on me. 3 drones and harbinger is a much more likely scenario than just two drones. You want to change the math to only two targets, so you can grossly over exaggerate the performance of the widow thanks to it's absurd front loaded damage, but most batttles invole a a dozen or so enemies, coming in groups of 4ish. Not waves of 1 and 2. nice try, though, junrior. But , you are way out of your league.

Nice fail at comprehending YOUR OWN POST. Haha, you are classic. I'll reiterate for you since you have a mental disability or something. You said you can kill three drones and a harbinger in the time it takes a Widow to kill a harbinger.

You are amazing. By the way, your argument sounds more like you thought I was using Straw Man, not Red Herring. If you're gonna use wikipedia to try and sound smart, at least read the whole article.

Modifié par Hoffburger, 06 février 2010 - 09:36 .

[Graunt]

vhatever wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

You are a moron, there is no way you can kill two drones with a Viper faster than you can kill a harbinger with the Widow. Yet you claim you can kill three drones and a harbinger faster than the WIdow can kill a harbinger.

Again your lack of intellect amazes me, you spew out random filth with no data, you should work for The Climatic Research Unit, you would fit right in.

Nice mathemtatical red herring. Don't change the math on me. 3 drones and harbinger is a much more likely scenario than just two drones. You want to change the math to only two targets, so you can grossly over exaggerate the performance of the widow thanks to it's absurd front loaded damage, but most batttles invole a a dozen or so enemies, coming in groups of 4ish. Not waves of 1 and 2. nice try, though, junrior. But , you are way out of your league.

Let's forget that you're going to have to crouch more the more enemies you want to add into the mix.  Congrats on a higher RoF that means nothing if you have to spend just as much time crouching in between shots.

[Ingahootz]

Graunt wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

You are a moron, there is no way you can kill two drones with a Viper faster than you can kill a harbinger with the Widow. Yet you claim you can kill three drones and a harbinger faster than the WIdow can kill a harbinger.

Again your lack of intellect amazes me, you spew out random filth with no data, you should work for The Climatic Research Unit, you would fit right in.

Nice mathemtatical red herring. Don't change the math on me. 3 drones and harbinger is a much more likely scenario than just two drones. You want to change the math to only two targets, so you can grossly over exaggerate the performance of the widow thanks to it's absurd front loaded damage, but most batttles invole a a dozen or so enemies, coming in groups of 4ish. Not waves of 1 and 2. nice try, though, junrior. But , you are way out of your league.

Let's forget that you're going to have to crouch more the more enemies you want to add into the mix.  Congrats on a higher RoF that means nothing if you have to spend just as much time crouching in between shots.

That was one of the points I made earlier.

[Hoffburger]

Is it me or is there a huge issue with people not being able to admit they are wrong in this world. People go out of there way to say completely stupid things just to try and prove they weren't wrong, yet they sound even dumber than if they would just admit they were wrong in the first place.

[Magimel]

Soldiers turn this game to easy mode no matter the difficulty. Excellent sniper usage and the ability to use assault rifles is good, but mix that with Adrenaline Rush and you have an unstoppable killing machine.



As I read many of these posts, I believe that an issue of balance does become prevalent. The sniper rifle and assault rifles are continually mentioned, which in my opinion, leads to the play style being very much the one with the BFG wins. All that is needed, and remains continually effective is cover, aim, shoot with the biggest baddest gun you got.

[MGIII]

Anyone know the base power and RoF of the Viper and Widow? I'm curious.



Also, it would be good if this thread was moved in its entirety to the other sub-board.

[vhatever]

LOL. You think I got my calculator out and calculated the damage difference between those weapons? We aren't just comparing weapons here, but a soldier using them. Hofflamer likes to play fast a loose with numbers and facts, like one shotting harbringers. Heh. He doesn't even play on insanity.

[Ingahootz]

vhatever wrote...

LOL. You think I got my calculator out and calculated the damage difference between those weapons? We aren't just comparing weapons here, but a soldier using them. Hofflamer likes to play fast a loose with numbers and facts, like one shotting harbringers. Heh. He doesn't even play on insanity.

Oh lord here we go again. When someone proves him wrong and backs him into a corner all of a sudden they don't play on Insanity. Amazing.

[Mr.Skar]

I don't play on Insanity, so this question may seem a little more antagonistic than it should, but can you really one shot Harbinger? Is it through a combo of class skills and various upgrades or what? I'm curious since my ME1 Lady Shep is an Infiltrator and when I take her through Insanity it would be very cool to one shot this particular enemy.

[vhatever]

Do you one-shot habringer's on insanity at level 30?

[Ingahootz]

vhatever wrote...

Do you one-shot habringer's on insanity at level 30?

As an infiltrator with every damage talent, AP ammo, Cloak up and Miranda's group damage bonus? No... but very close to it.

[vhatever]

Yes, I'm aware, It was rhetorical. But Hoff does. Because, you see, he doesn't play on insanity.

[MGIII]

vhatever wrote...

Yes, I'm aware, It was rhetorical. But Hoff does. Because, you see, he doesn't play on insanity.

What does Hoff's preference of dfficulty have to do with a discussion about class optimality?

[vhatever]

MGIII wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Yes, I'm aware, It was rhetorical. But Hoff does. Because, you see, he doesn't play on insanity.

What does Hoff's preference of dfficulty have to do with a discussion about class optimality?

You tell me:

MGIII wrote...

On Insanity difficulty, of course. Everything else doesn't require much more than paying attention to the game.

[Graunt]

MGIII wrote...

Anyone know the base power and RoF of the Viper and Widow? I'm curious.

Also, it would be good if this thread was moved in its entirety to the other sub-board.

http://social.biowar...03/index/895465

[MGIII]

Graunt wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Anyone know the base power and RoF of the Viper and Widow? I'm curious.

Also, it would be good if this thread was moved in its entirety to the other sub-board.

http://social.biowar...03/index/895465

So, RoF for the Viper and Widow is 4/s and 1.16/s respectively? That means they roughly do the same amount of damage per second. Wow, that's boring.

I'm pretty sure damage bonuses like passives and headshots factor in on a per shot basis. 

Anyone feel like doing the math? Rank 4 Assassin bonuses only, we can get to Miranda and TC later.

[MANoob]

Ingahootz wrote...
As an infiltrator with every damage talent, AP ammo, Cloak up and Miranda's group damage bonus? No... but very close to it.

2 full shots is the best you can do and I'm not even sure about that. Usually it takes 3.

Btw, what speed has to do with optimality? And if we're talking about speed only, infiltrator certainly won't be the top choice,  'cloak&shoot' isn't uber fast because its cloack cd + targeting time and then just one shot.

[Ingahootz]

MANoob wrote...

Ingahootz wrote...
As an infiltrator with every damage talent, AP ammo, Cloak up and Miranda's group damage bonus? No... but very close to it.

2 full shots is the best you can do and I'm not even sure about that. Usually it takes 3.

Btw, what speed has to do with optimality? And if we're talking about speed only, infiltrator certainly won't be the top choice,  'cloak&shoot' isn't uber fast because its cloack cd + targeting time and then just one shot.

Speed is a part of being optimum I would say.

Honestly though if I was trying to clear an area as fast as possible I probably wouldn't cloak + shoot against things I could one shot without cloak. I brought up cloak in that quote to answer an earlier "question".

[Graunt]

MANoob wrote...

Ingahootz wrote...
As an infiltrator with every damage talent, AP ammo, Cloak up and Miranda's group damage bonus? No... but very close to it.

2 full shots is the best you can do and I'm not even sure about that. Usually it takes 3.

Btw, what speed has to do with optimality? And if we're talking about speed only, infiltrator certainly won't be the top choice,  'cloak&shoot' isn't uber fast because its cloack cd + targeting time and then just one shot.

The majority of the enemies in the game with only one protection will die to a headshot with just the base rifle and a cloak.  And that's at the lower levels without any upgrades.  Once you have fully upgraded weapons and are beyond the starter garbage rifle, you can one shot anything besides a scion, harbinger and pratorean without using cloak.  With how often you have to crouch in the heavy firefights, you aren't missing out on too many shots over time having to wait for the cloak cooldown.  Also, you won't always just be using only the rifle, sometimes you'll want to use Incinerate and cloak doesn't do anything to that as far as I know.  And targeting time is a non issue at rank 4 Operative.  You wouldn't just pop it randomly and hope you have something to hit anyway.

Honestly though if I was trying to clear an area as fast as possible I
probably wouldn't cloak + shoot against things I could one shot without
cloak.

Exactly, plus you can use it to move into a better position or get out of trouble when pinned down.

Modifié par Graunt, 06 février 2010 - 11:38 .