393 réponses à ce sujet

[WarlockSoL]

newcomplex wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Huh??/

Every character had more than 1 dialogue sequence, after every major quest you could retalk to everyone and get more conversations from them.  Nothing massive sure, but it was there.  I think ME2 has more character building conversations with each teammate, but Tali did have more than 1 in ME1.  Since she wasn't a love interest it wasn't as large as Ash or the other love interests.

Tali stops giving out conversations after 1 mission after recruiting her.    Garrus stops after two.   you can try it yourself.   

This is correct.  I think Wrex may have been 3.  Kaiden, Ashley and Liara were the only ones that had a real significant amount of dialog since all three were romance options. 

[Vena_86]

Just because the reviewer didnt say ME2 is the best game ever made like many other reviews, many of them "exclusive" which makes them instantly biased doesnt mean that hes a whining RPG fan. Infact the reviewer said nothing wrong, nothing which can be considered a lie or wrong perception and the overall tone wasnt really negative.



Bashing the review or even putting it on the same line as dissappointed RPG purists or "the vocal minority" (which isnt that minor actually) is simply not fair or objective.

[Marek_Kail]

Orogenic wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

This review was right on the money. It seems to be the only review I've read that was written by someone that really loved ME1.

There is no question that ME2 is a great game. The problem is it does not feel like a spiritual successor to ME1 which was awesome.

I will probably go back and replay ME1 a couple more times, but I doubt I'll even bother with a second playthrough of ME2.

I don't really follow this. The "spirit" of ME1 was undoubtedly in its storytelling. ME2, for whatever differences it has, certainly continues telling that great story.

Ponder this...

After Luke Skywalker was awarded his medal for blowing up the Deathstar, he died in a freak landspeeder accident.

Darth Vader found his dessicated remains a couple years later and reconstituted him (sort of like a sea monkey).

After his revitalization, Luke decides that Darth and his Empire buddies really aren't as bad as he thought....

In fact, they actually have the best interests of the human race at heart. 

It turns out Han Solo really WAS a two-bit criminal and Princess Leia is a tree-hugging space hippie.

Luke gets his own star destroyer and heads out to show the galaxy what human domination is all about.....



Sound like a story you'd like to hear?

I know that analogies are rarely perfect, but this one is laughable. At no point does Shepherd join the equivalent of the Empire. To do so, in SW mythos, would require him to begin working directly for the Reapers.

[newcomplex]

Vena_86 wrote...

Just because the reviewer didnt say ME2 is the best game ever made like many other reviews, many of them "exclusive" which makes them instantly biased doesnt mean that hes a whining RPG fan. Infact the reviewer said nothing wrong, nothing which can be considered a lie or wrong perception and the overall tone wasnt really negative.

Bashing the review or even putting it on the same line as dissappointed RPG purists or "the vocal minority" (which isnt that minor actually) is simply not fair or objective.

The issue here is that a lot of the people (not all) who thought mass effect 2 was disapointing have to dramatasize their complaints, rather then make them on face value.

I've defended Mass Effect 2 a lot of times, and its not that I think ME2 was perfect.   In fact, I agree wholeheartedly with the reviewer, in all aspects except the part where he states that ME2 was a lazy cashgrab by bioware.     The issue is that people can't realize that ME2 is a ****ING VIDEO GAME, so they feel the need to sensationalize their concerns with the game (zomg ME2 is like gears of war, zomg ME1 was such a good RPG, zomg ME2 was a cash grab by EA to get halo fans etc etc etc)

They would wholeheartedly get a better reception if they just acted in a less sensationalist (and just not right) fashion, and objectively pointed out their dislikes with the game (And many of them do, but their are equally many of them who are too busy raging at it to do so)

[ODST 5723]

WarlockSoL wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Huh??/

Every character had more than 1 dialogue sequence, after every major quest you could retalk to everyone and get more conversations from them.  Nothing massive sure, but it was there.  I think ME2 has more character building conversations with each teammate, but Tali did have more than 1 in ME1.  Since she wasn't a love interest it wasn't as large as Ash or the other love interests.

Tali stops giving out conversations after 1 mission after recruiting her.    Garrus stops after two.   you can try it yourself.   

This is correct.  I think Wrex may have been 3.  Kaiden, Ashley and Liara were the only ones that had a real significant amount of dialog since all three were romance options. 

I recall the following convos with Tali off the top of my head though I'm not sure how they worked out

1) Ship is amazing
2) Kind of homesick because it's so quiet
3) No more trouble sleeping since I've gotten used to this.  I'll be ready for the fight
4) My father would probably have us killed for this

[ODST 5723]

newcomplex wrote...

zomg ME2 was a cash grab by EA to get halo fans

*looks at his profile name*

ZOMG, it worked!

[Marek_Kail]

Orogenic wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

In the first game Shep, the best human soldier in the galaxy couldnt aim a sniper rifle or hit anything else 2/3rds of the time.

I love progression and char dev as much as the next person, but for a game involving guns where a soldier is already the Elite of the Elite it makes little sense to progress Accuacy of Stability

So once again, by your logic all combat soldiers are snipers?  I thought it added a bit of realisim that your character had to "develop" familiarity with different weapon types to be skilled with them..

If you started out picking one or more weapon which you already excelled, then perhaps. The problem I have with it is that when you start ME1, you suck at all of the weapons. Fact of the matter is you suck all around, like the typical lowbie in all "rpgs" 

The irony is that the setup for ME2 would have me more understanding of a "don't know how to aim a pistol/shotgun/rifle effectively" than ME1. 

ME1 was far less immersive for me simply because you were supposed to be one of "The best of the Best", but still seemed to lack stuff you would learn in basic training.

[newcomplex]

ODST 5723 wrote...

WarlockSoL wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Huh??/

Every character had more than 1 dialogue sequence, after every major quest you could retalk to everyone and get more conversations from them.  Nothing massive sure, but it was there.  I think ME2 has more character building conversations with each teammate, but Tali did have more than 1 in ME1.  Since she wasn't a love interest it wasn't as large as Ash or the other love interests.

Tali stops giving out conversations after 1 mission after recruiting her.    Garrus stops after two.   you can try it yourself.   

This is correct.  I think Wrex may have been 3.  Kaiden, Ashley and Liara were the only ones that had a real significant amount of dialog since all three were romance options. 

I recall the following convos with Tali off the top of my head though I'm not sure how they worked out

1) Ship is amazing
2) Kind of homesick because it's so quiet
3) No more trouble sleeping since I've gotten used to this.  I'll be ready for the fight
4) My father would probably have us killed for this

Three of those are presented in a single investigation question.   yay!

Keep in mind that I'm talking about conversation, she also has 3 investigation questions she starts out with.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 03 février 2010 - 08:50 .

[Parallax Demon]

Completely agree with NYT review. I really love playing ME2. I would say it's the best game since I played Fallout 3. But that would not be the truth because prior to it's release I played the original to get the hang of it once again.

Like any game ME1e has it's faults, who are mentioned in numerous posts.But the overall experience is great (played it 4 times).

Now with ME2 I find myself experience a very good story with very interesting characters, but with very repetitive gameplay. I enter a section and take cover. First wave of enemies arrive. I take down their barrier and / or shield with a biotic power and kill them with a headshot. After that the second wave arrives, rince and repeat etc

I'll continue till the end and will still enjoy it, but the fun of clearing a whole room without a shot due to my biotic or engineering abilities, like I did in ME1, isn't a possibility anymore.

[Ahglock]

WarlockSoL wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Huh??/

Every character had more than 1 dialogue sequence, after every major quest you could retalk to everyone and get more conversations from them.  Nothing massive sure, but it was there.  I think ME2 has more character building conversations with each teammate, but Tali did have more than 1 in ME1.  Since she wasn't a love interest it wasn't as large as Ash or the other love interests.

Tali stops giving out conversations after 1 mission after recruiting her.    Garrus stops after two.   you can try it yourself.   

This is correct.  I think Wrex may have been 3.  Kaiden, Ashley and Liara were the only ones that had a real significant amount of dialog since all three were romance options. 

I just finished the game again a couple weeks ago, I got more than 1 conversation out of Tali.

[CRISIS1717]

I totally agree with the NYT review, if only games magazines honestly critiqued games upon release.

[Taritu]

novaseeker wrote...

Yes, the NYT is not a gaming publication, but its game reviewer, Seth Schiesel, is quite good, generally, in his appraisal of games.  I think it was a balanced review and well worth reading:

 http://www.nytimes.c...effect.html?hpw

Money quote:

"Hybrids are certainly possible. The original Mass Effect was a role-playing game that BioWare was ambitiously, almost rambunctiously, trying to cram into the form of an action game. With Mass Effect 2, by contrast, BioWare clearly decided to build the game as a shooter type first, leaving in only the lightest of customization options for each character — with far fewer skill options than in the first game — and fuse them with a combat system that can be played almost entirely as a real-time shooter. In terms of the combat dynamics, imagine Gears of War lite with some science-fiction magic powers.
There’s nothing wrong with that; it works well. But it leaves Mass Effect 2 feeling a bit generic. By role-playing-game standards, it is unacceptably thin in its core play systems. ...

Mass Effect 2 is a wonderful example of what a world-class developer can produce when it wants to create a comfortably popular and profitable sequel in an established mass-market franchise. It is not, however, an example of what a world-class developer can produce when it challenges itself to new heights. BioWare, we’re waiting."



 

Agreed.  Good game, but not as good as ME1.  I know many disagree, but hey, whatever.

[National_Cause]

Fhaileas wrote...

respected publication like the NYT.

The NYT is a respected publication? I'd list all the reasons why it isn't, but this isn't the place for a debate about journalistic integrity.

As far as the game review is concerned, meh. The guy has his own opinions. Other reviewers have different opinions. Everyone who has played the game has different opinions. Who cares? Why do people feel the need to post links to different reviews, positive or negative, to validate their own opinions on the game?

EDIT: Also, while the two games are different in many ways, better in some and worse in others, I think people are getting caught up in the nostalgia of the first game. I remember the first time I played the original Everquest back in 99. It was like a drug. Years later when I tried to get back into MMOs with Everquest 2, it just wasn't the same. The high from the first experience just couldn't be recaptured. That wasn't the developers fault. Hell, in many ways EQ2 was much better, but I was chasing that first high and I never caught it.

Modifié par National_Cause, 03 février 2010 - 09:25 .

[Taritu]

WarlockSoL wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Huh??/

Every character had more than 1 dialogue sequence, after every major quest you could retalk to everyone and get more conversations from them.  Nothing massive sure, but it was there.  I think ME2 has more character building conversations with each teammate, but Tali did have more than 1 in ME1.  Since she wasn't a love interest it wasn't as large as Ash or the other love interests.

Tali stops giving out conversations after 1 mission after recruiting her.    Garrus stops after two.   you can try it yourself.   

This is correct.  I think Wrex may have been 3.  Kaiden, Ashley and Liara were the only ones that had a real significant amount of dialog since all three were romance options. 

No, this is incorrect.  All of them have at least 3 conversations, 4 is most common. 

[ODST 5723]

newcomplex wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

WarlockSoL wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Huh??/

Every character had more than 1 dialogue sequence, after every major quest you could retalk to everyone and get more conversations from them.  Nothing massive sure, but it was there.  I think ME2 has more character building conversations with each teammate, but Tali did have more than 1 in ME1.  Since she wasn't a love interest it wasn't as large as Ash or the other love interests.

Tali stops giving out conversations after 1 mission after recruiting her.    Garrus stops after two.   you can try it yourself.   

This is correct.  I think Wrex may have been 3.  Kaiden, Ashley and Liara were the only ones that had a real significant amount of dialog since all three were romance options. 

I recall the following convos with Tali off the top of my head though I'm not sure how they worked out

1) Ship is amazing
2) Kind of homesick because it's so quiet
3) No more trouble sleeping since I've gotten used to this.  I'll be ready for the fight
4) My father would probably have us killed for this

Three of those are presented in a single investigation question.   yay!

Keep in mind that I'm talking about conversation, she also has 3 investigation questions she starts out with.    

I'm just going off of what I remember hearing.  Since someone decided not to participate in the convo and address the points I figured I'd take a stab at it.

[haberman13]

Couldn't agree with this review more.



ME2 is fun, but its a corridor shooter with story (basically)



ME1 felt more open, had deeper systems. (could have been much deeper of course, but wayyy more deep than ME2)

[haberman13]

What I'm really sick of is all of these review sites that don't actually review the game.



ME2 highlights this, other than a few reviewers, who actually reviewed the game when it was released (instead of a pre-release deal) all of the major game sites gushed over the game. They didn't even mention the differences between ME1/2, totally glossed over. (other than IGN AU)



No critique, no analysis. I'm done trusting those sites.

[trope]

Ahglock wrote...

WarlockSoL wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Huh??/

Every character had more than 1 dialogue sequence, after every major quest you could retalk to everyone and get more conversations from them.  Nothing massive sure, but it was there.  I think ME2 has more character building conversations with each teammate, but Tali did have more than 1 in ME1.  Since she wasn't a love interest it wasn't as large as Ash or the other love interests.

Tali stops giving out conversations after 1 mission after recruiting her.    Garrus stops after two.   you can try it yourself.   

This is correct.  I think Wrex may have been 3.  Kaiden, Ashley and Liara were the only ones that had a real significant amount of dialog since all three were romance options. 

I just finished the game again a couple weeks ago, I got more than 1 conversation out of Tali.

See I didn't like Fallout 3.  The writing was horrible and the voice acting was so sub-par.  Sure the graphics we're cool, but honestly Bethesda's whole 1st-person RPG thing is not for me.  I guess people are really into that game but I never understood why.  

[hetfool]

Personally I think the BYT review is quite unfair and little "old school" biased.



Mass Effect 2 in terms of gaming technology is incredible. I can't think of another game with this many interactive cut-scene quality conversations. The level of detail and work from animators, artists, and designers is incredible and it all works seamlessly!



To complain the game isn't challenging new heights is ridiculous, it's just sour grapes that the RPG elements are watered down. Personally, given the scope and scale of the production - no wonder they hosed them down! We would be waiting another year if Bioware had included them (at least).



All this reviewer has done is demonstrate he doesn't understand the momentum behind the gaming industry at present and what Bioware wanted to achieve. I wonder what he thought of Dragon Age...

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Great to some publications willing to give ME2 its actual due, and not just fawning, biased and possibly paid off 10/10s. They sicken me.



ME2 was a good game. Nothing more, nothing less.



Id still take ME1 over it in a heartbeat.

[Skemte]

I think the game is amazing with several things I hope is fixed.. A) skill rebalance, some skills like pull or throw will rarely be used say on the adept at anything higher then normal just due to the fact of the overall cooldown.. As well as the shields and even armor getting in the way of that.. Fortunately if Bioware doesn't do this, a modder will..



Add more weapons... This game seriously lacks from a serious case of weapons.. I could accept 4 to 5 weapons in each catagory, but some catagories have as little as 2.. The perfect thing would be to add some 8 to 12 weapons throughout the game, rather it be a hidden one on a side quest and what not.. Furthermore I would like to see some variety with no "clear" winners at the end.. What I mean by this is clearly we will have a few upgrades every so often that will be clealry better, but I would like to see the weapon choices in the catagory branch out.. That are not neccesarly more powerful but different, say a more accurate shotgun but weaker damage.. Making it useful to medium and long range..

--- Greater armor choices would be great too, with "set armors".. Weapons and armor to me seem like a pretty small chunk in development, and could be easilly fixed.. I just hope they do this in a DLC.. Outside of that I found the game amazing.

[apples44]

Im on the side of NYT here, he gives a good review. He notes ME2's achievements, and says himself it has kept him captivated, but at the same time the game's story is too dependent on there being a Mass Effect 3. This is the same mistake many Hollywood filmmakers make, where at the end of the story were left hanging so that the sequel can use it's prequel as a crutch for it's own story. The trick is to make the story of each game self-sustaining, while still building on what we learned and experienced in the previous game. ME2 is all about preparing for this so-called "suicide mission".. and in the end, if you make the right choices and do all the side missions.. well, I won't give any spoilers but it can get a little.. disappointing with all the hype. I loved ME2 and played it for two days straight and was totally worth buying, but theres still room for criticism. Good review @ NYT.

[durasteel]

This is the middle chapter of a trilogy, there is no getting around that. The first chapter will always have the magic of introducing us to the world, the last will always be the one that reaches the climax and resolution.



This one advances the story, cleans up some of the game mechanics (which I like, personally, although it seems some miss a cumbersome inventory) and basically offers a fun game to play.



When all is said and done, the ultimate review is the one we who have played ME2 give our friends. I have told all mine that they should definitely pick this game up, because it's a lot of fun. There's a small difference between "You should play it" and "You should get it now, it am teh bestest evar!" So far I haven't heard anyone say "Don't bother" or "If you skip it, you won't have missed much."



I'm surprised by one thing: although many describe this review as 'honest' it lack the most obvious truth... Nowhere in the review does it say "needs more alien side boob."

[SphereofSilence]

haberman13 wrote...

Couldn't agree with this review more.

ME2 is fun, but its a corridor shooter with story (basically)

ME1 felt more open, had deeper systems. (could have been much deeper of course, but wayyy more deep than ME2)

I would like to see an in-depth analysis from you on why ME1 is way deeper than ME2. 

[Karathossen]

I finished ME2 on Insanity difficulty just the other day, and instantly decided to go back to ME1 for a refresher course in what's happened in the past. I instantly found myself seeing exactly what the reviewer on IGN and the reviewer in New York Times were seeing.



ME2 is better, and they upgraded many things that made me facepalm in the first game. But they also removed and simplified many things that made ME1 better than the sequel. ME2 feels like a TPS game with heavy RPG elements, when in my opinion ME1 was an RPG with shooter elements.



Just think about it. ME1 had more skills to choose from, more gear to choose from just to name a couple of points. Sure those aren't the only things you need to make a good RPG, but that's where you start. These are of course all my own personal opinions.



Now that I refreshed myself by playing ME1 again, ME2 does suddenly feel very dumbed down in comparison to what it could have been if they'd stuck with more RPG elements. Still a great game, but nyeh... Here's to BioWare ending the trilogy with a masterpiece in a year or so!