393 réponses à ce sujet

[newcomplex]

Kalfear wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

OK, here's what I don't get about all the complaints regarding RPG elements -- or lack thereof. The people who don't like Mass Effect 2 on these grounds appear to be RPG purists, if that's the right word, who want extensive customization of skills and gear and are missing that in mass effect 2. What puzzles me about this is that they keep saying things about how the game is a letdown or is disappointing, which is odd because by traditional RPG standards even ME1 was not heavy on these elements. The hardcore RPG aspects showed up much more in storytelling, dialogue, character interaction and such. The inventory system was never really all the customizable and you spent most of the game discarding supposed "upgrades" as junk because you were already fully outfitted with Level X spectre gear and medigel and had a full bank account -- that you didn't need anyway.

Given all that, why are these RPG fans all so "disappointed" that ME2 stripped away some of what was already RPG-lite, if you will, in the first place. It seems to me that if whole skill point/inventory customization paradigm is what gets you going the ME franchise was never your cup of tea to begin with. If that's what you want, go play KOTOR or NeverwinterNights 2 again, or DA: O (so I'm told, haven't played it yet). Or rail on the whole ME franchise, but don't act surprised that this game isn't something neither in the franchise has been.

*sighs* no one ever listens

No the RPG elements are not there
In BIOWARE GAMES you effect your surroundings and influence those around you. Every choice you make changes how your game ends

In Bioware games you earn the trust of your companions through influence checks and long conversations were you learn about them, their hopes, their dreams, what makes them tick. You just dont do a predetermined loyalty quest and all is good.

In Bioware games, squadmates interact (positively or negatively) while your out and about through out the universe, not just in predetermined cutscreens 1 or 2 times a game!

So no, the RPG elements were not in ME2 and if you played any Bioware RPGs you would know this

Oh and shove you know what up your you know what

Bioware has stated many times this is SUPPOSE TO BE equal parts shooter and RPG so YES, it is what we asking for, with guns! They just havent found the right mix yet!

What on earth are you talking about.   All those elements are present in ME2, beyond the scope of any past bioware game.   Need I remind you in ME1, Tali had two sets of dialogue, and so did garrus?    As a result of your action with squadmates in ME2, you can a)Cause a shift in miranas personality by having her talk to her sister b)Make jacob become a better leader (aka grow a spine), let garrus succumb or defeat his obsession for revenge, choose to let the potential genophage cure survive or die, choose whether Morinth or Samara lives, a free spirited hedonist who was born with a genetic disorder, or a justicar who is haunted by past mistakes causing her to have to hunt her daughter, romance Jack and show her that it is possible to be loved and to love, or to reaffirm her sadomachistic worldview and sexually abuse her, determine Talis future relationship with her species and government, help Thane attone for his past crimes before he dies, determine the future of millions of geth on heretic station, as well as the major plot decision of choosing whether or not to keep the Reaper tech on the Occulus.     Plus, their are more subtle interactions, but obviously wont significantly alter anything, like how you treat people.   

HINT:

When critisizing the game, you should try to act more like this reviewer then an angry basement nerd.   Your complaints might be taken more seriously.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 03 février 2010 - 01:11 .

[Guaritor]

novaseeker wrote...
 — with far fewer skill options than in the first game — 
 

ME1

Assault Training
Fitness
Armor Talent
First Aid
Charm
Intimidate
Spectre Training
class talent
Decryption
Electronics
Hacking
Damping
Medicine
Barrier
Lift
Singularity
Stasis
Throw
Warp

= 19*


ME2

Pull
Adrenaline Rush
Inferno Grenade
Overload
AI Hacking
Neural Shock
Shockwave
Charge
Slam
Reave
Throw
Warp
Barrier
Singularity
Dominate
Combat Drone
Cryo Blast
Incinerate
Tech Armor
Tactical Cloak
Energy Drain
Geth Shield Boost
Concussive Shot
Fortification
class Talent

= 24**

What?

ME2 has more skills, to the point that every class FEELS different.  When im playing a vanguard, I don't feel like an adept with a shotgun.  

Just because we can choose from fewer skills doesn't mean we can't bring team members with a whole huge variety of skills to compliment ours, and we have quite a few options for bonus talents.

*I didn't count weapon skills from ME1 because they are integrated into ME2 by class
**I didn't count Ammo skills from ME2 because ammo was in ME1 but not in the form of talents, I ALSO didn't count any evolutions of powers in ME2.  Plus charm and intimidate are still in ME2, just in the form of class skills.

[Orogenic]

Glad to see at least one major reviewer noticed that portions of the emperor were a bit scantily clad...

[CMD-Shep]

who cares what one dude says? It aint gonna change what I think of the game.

Developers/publishers don't ruin games. Ridiculously high expectations do.

Everyone wants the game to measure up to these lofty ideas they have in their heads so badly, that they forget to enjoy the game itself.

[sedrikhcain]

CMD-Shep wrote...

who cares what one dude says? It aint gonna change what I think of the game.
Developers/publishers don't ruin games. Ridiculously high expectations do.
Everyone wants the game to measure up to these lofty ideas they have in their heads so badly, that they forget to enjoy the game itself.

True, and more precisely, many people want it to be EXACTLY what they want in a videogame. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, except that the game if for mass consumption, not custom made for one person. So hoping that it will turn out as if it were made based on your personal wish list is setting yourself up for disappointment. Fine if that's what they want. But the boards would be a more productive place if that didn't translate into trashing and flaming anyone and anything who says something good about it.

[Orogenic]

CMD-Shep wrote...

who cares what one dude says? It aint gonna change what I think of the game.
Developers/publishers don't ruin games. Ridiculously high expectations do.
Everyone wants the game to measure up to these lofty ideas they have in their heads so badly, that they forget to enjoy the game itself.

You apparently didn't read the review:

He's a huge fan of Mass Effect and Bioware just like many of us.

ME 2 was obviously "mainstreamed" in many ways.  A lot of the emotional immersion that made ME 1 famous is missing.

That doesn't mean it's a bad game.... just not a very impressive successor to the first. 

I played through the game once and did enjoy it, but ME 2 is simply not as good or groundbreaking as ME 1.

[Frraksurred]

Excellent review imo.



We do have high expectations, but I knew this going in. I forced myself to do two full play-throughs before I made much comment. ME2 is a good game, but it gives up much of what we knew it as in ME1. This is naturally going to upset fans of those aspects. You cannot blame us for wanting back something we enjoyed so much we helped make ME2's sales figures what they are.

[Kalfear]

hey newcomplexe



troll more kid

[Jaysonie]

Kalfear wrote...

hey newcomplexe

troll more kid

Said the pot to the kettle.

[Twitchmonkey]

Jaysonie wrote...

Said the pot to the kettle.

Kalfear is not going to get that. He's not functioning on a high level.

[Brayton]

Can someone explain mainstream?

Because if mainstream means recognition from everyone like Halo and Call of Duty get then some of the most influential games on the planet are in no way mainstream, including this game.

[Orogenic]

I've finally realized that you can pretty much ignore anyone in a forum that uses the word "troll" or "hater."

[Caion]

DarthCaine wrote...

Reviewers are people like you and me, everyone has different tastes and opinions

How easily people seem to forget or ignore this. I also find it puzzling how people hold up more negative/critical reviews as "honest" in comparison to more favorable ones. Nearly all reviews are honest. Simply saying what one wants to hear doesn't make it more "honest" than someone who says something that one doesn't agree with. In the end it's just one guy with an opinion, and that he or she shares that opinion in a blog or a written publication doesn't change this.

Modifié par Caion, 03 février 2010 - 01:31 .

[Orogenic]

RockingKraut wrote...

Can someone explain mainstream?
Because if mainstream means recognition from everyone like Halo and Call of Duty get then some of the most influential games on the planet are in no way mainstream, including this game.

mainstream = simplifying the core mechanics and storyline of a game to maximize sales by making the material accesible to a larger demographic

[Jaysonie]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

Said the pot to the kettle.

Kalfear is not going to get that. He's not functioning on a high level.

Really, interesting. Another thing to keep in mind.

[CMD-Shep]

Caion wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Reviewers are people like you and me, everyone has different tastes and opinions

How easily people seem to forget or ignore this. I also find it puzzling how people hold up more negative/critical reviews as "honest" in comparison to more favorable ones. Nearly all reviews are honest. Simply saying what one wants to hear doesn't make it more "honest" than someone who says something that one doesn't agree with. In the end it's just one guy with an opinion, and that he or she shares that opinion in a blog or a written publication doesn't change this.

Dude, I was thinking the EXACT same thing.

[Brayton]

Orogenic wrote...

RockingKraut wrote...

Can someone explain mainstream?
Because if mainstream means recognition from everyone like Halo and Call of Duty get then some of the most influential games on the planet are in no way mainstream, including this game.

mainstream = simplifying the core mechanics and storyline of a game to maximize sales by making the material accesible to a larger demographic

If this is true then whats the point in making games that are more easily acceptable. By that logic a hard confusing game like Skate 2 is not mainstream, my brother is screaming and cursing at the screen and controls right now, but yet by mainstream, it implies everyone pays attention to it. Thats what people mean about any other form of media, why are vidoegames held to a different more confusing standard?

Modifié par RockingKraut, 03 février 2010 - 01:34 .

[sedrikhcain]

crackseed wrote...

Well stated Sedrik I found the review inaccurate in multiple areas, but I appreciate that he was concise and clear on his points/opinions - so it was a worthwhile read, even if I disagree heavily xD

As for Kalfear/Kiyyto, I wouldn't bother responding to them too much - when their condescending statements/inaccuracies fail, they resort to the tactics they accuse the fans of displaying [I won't say some fans don't do this, but doing it because others do it is just as sad] Report to Mod, move on and debate with people who are worthwhile IMO 

crackseed, thanks for that. yeah, i will be ignoring the notworthmytime.

I finished reading tha review. I have to disagree that the game wasn't an accomplishment. I can't put it down and it doesn't really feel like anything else I've played (although I must admit I haven't played Gears of War). A friend who reviews games professionally loves ME2 (for Xbox) as well but wanted more dialogue options. I love good dialogue and always want more of what bioware does along those lines, but the entire experience feels immersive and heroic to me.

What would you like to see different in the game?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Guaritor wrote...

*I didn't count weapon skills from ME1 because they are integrated into ME2 by class
**I didn't count Ammo skills from ME2 because ammo was in ME1 but not in the form of talents, I ALSO didn't count any evolutions of powers in ME2.  Plus charm and intimidate are still in ME2, just in the form of class skills.

Sorry, but that is just a flat out misrepresentation. The weapon and armor skills are gone. Each class has fewer skills. Misrepresent things all you want though.

Not to mention that most of the biotic skills are useless past Normal difficulty.

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

Finally someone gets it. ME2 is a stripped down TPS with RPG elements.

[ScroguBlitzen]

This review was right on the money. It seems to be the only review I've read that was written by someone that really loved ME1.



There is no question that ME2 is a great game. The problem is it does not feel like a spiritual successor to ME1 which was awesome.



I will probably go back and replay ME1 a couple more times, but I doubt I'll even bother with a second playthrough of ME2.

[CMD-Shep]

Orogenic wrote...

You apparently didn't read the review:

He's a huge fan of Mass Effect and Bioware just like many of us.

ME 2 was obviously "mainstreamed" in many ways.  A lot of the emotional immersion that made ME 1 famous is missing.

That doesn't mean it's a bad game.... just not a very impressive successor to the first. 

I played through the game once and did enjoy it, but ME 2 is simply not as good or groundbreaking as ME 1.

You're right, I didn't.
But my point remains the same. A reviewers opinion (be it good or bad) will not change how I feel about this game. Also, people pre-concieved notions do taint thier opinions. You can't deny that.
I got ME2 thinking that it was going to be the best game I've ever played and I got exactly that. Why? because I did not have any pre-cocieved notions about RPG this or ammo clip that. I just played the game that was before me and I loved every second of it.
Now if you played ME2 and you did not like it, then kudos to you. I have no issues with that. Just ask yourself why? Was it because it was really that bad? Or was it that it did  not live up to what you were expecting? If so, still nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying...

[Orogenic]

RockingKraut wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

RockingKraut wrote...

Can someone explain mainstream?
Because if mainstream means recognition from everyone like Halo and Call of Duty get then some of the most influential games on the planet are in no way mainstream, including this game.

mainstream = simplifying the core mechanics and storyline of a game to maximize sales by making the material accesible to a larger demographic

If this is true then whats the point in making games that are more easily acceptable. By that logic a hard confusing game like Skate 2 is not mainstream, my brother is screaming and cursing at the screen and controls right now, but yet by mainstream, it implies everyone pays attention to it. Thats what people mean about any other form of media, why are vidoegames held to a different more confusing standard?

Hard and confusing does not mean good.

Many of the fans of the original Mass Effect are unhappy because the storyline and character development in that game were very detailed and allowed for an "emotional immersion" in the game that is (in my experience) without equal.  ME 1 was literally the only reason I did not give my xbox away.

While the production values of ME 2 are fantastic and the game may be a pretty good third person shooter, it is nothing like ME 1 with regard to storytelling and immersion.  Some people never cared about that in the first place, and for them ME 2 is almost certainly a better game.  I happy for them- I just wish they would quit attacking anyone that doesn't think ME 2 is the flawless second coming : )

[jmf4]

Fhaileas wrote...

I'm so glad to see a more rational and objective perspective emerging amongst some of the newer reviews. Lends credence to not only the true nature of the game but also to the repute of a respected publication like the NYT.

Wait, you're serious? Haha, carry on.

Modifié par jmf4, 03 février 2010 - 01:43 .

[Orogenic]

CMD-Shep wrote...

I got ME2 thinking that it was going to be the best game I've ever played and I got exactly that. Why? because I did not have any pre-cocieved notions about RPG this or ammo clip that.

This is the funniest oxymoronic statement I have ever read on a forum.