154 réponses à ce sujet

[Commisar_V]

Markinator_123 wrote...

"Cerberus is humanity!" - Illusive man

I do not trust Cerberus or the Illusive man at all especially after that quote. In fact I think the illusive man is evil. His d & d reference would definitely be lawful evil.

I don't think D&D rules could really apply to him. He's an extremist, but I think he has humanity's best interests at heart. Two problems... His judgement is off, and he's only interested in humanity.

[Shock35]

Cerberus is ruthless. it is the ultimate "the ends justify the means" organization with a pro human bias. is that evil? if your not human, yes. but they also do many morally gray things as well (looking after humanity is one of them).

[Starscream723]

I used them for their spaceship and resources, then screwed them over. I got to take Miranda with me too, bonus.



"You work for me now" LOL.



Also, I didn't play paragon or renegade, but whatever I felt like. Some people I was nice to, some I decided just needed smacking down. The Illusive Man nearly always got the renegade options, and me being a jerk to him. Obviously I blew the damn base up. Why the hell wouldn't I? In what universe does giving a power-crazy man a super-teched space-base seem like a good idea?

[Markinator_123]

BlackwindTheCommander wrote...

I trust the people who serve and fight alongside me, just not the orginization as a whole.

This

[Brand New]

Just throwing this out there, being the renegade & fighting alongside evil is always more fun. Cereberus seems to not care, where the alliance would be even more dishonest with its political corruption and how they dismissed the Reapers.

[Proud Larry]

The only that Cerberus did right was fix Shepherd. They couldn't even build a spaceship right, have to traipse around the galaxy shooting probes at stuff to go upgrade the ship into something that didn't suck.



And TIM cannot be trusted. Just look at him.

[SCWhiteclaw]

really enjoyed the work, for me its an organisation like all the other races in citadel sector have, too. Only difference is that cerberus has to be unoffical not like STG or Spectre. I am almost sure its intended that the Alliance officially has to see them as crime organisation but in game its said the bucks for the operations comes from the same wealthy origins that offically marks them as terrorists. And iam sure the other races have organisations for same purposes, too. example could be the STG wing with 12 or 13 members mentioned in the codex. And ofcourse they brought you back to life, could there be better reason for someone to stay with them? Shepard still works for the mankind, but just switcht the workplace from N7 "specialforces" to a more special "Force"

[EJon]

And if you watch the ending where shepard dies, TIM even tells Joker that his job was done and he's lost his ship. That guy just uses people, and once your job is done your a liability. Your gone. He's power hungry.

[Urazz]

Cerebus has good goals and ideally are basically Humanity's version of the Salarian's STG, the Council's Spectre, etc. The only difference is that they don't answer to the Alliance and are lead by a single man that is quite a bit too morally ambiguous. That makes them dangerous and untrustable as a whole because we don't know what the Illusive Man wants.



Those like Jacob and Miranda and the Normandy's crew are the good guys in Cerebus but basically they go along with Shepard in the end if you have him destroy the base.

[Eumerin]

It's not their pro-human stance that bothers me.  If they were just a pro-human group, then there would be some stuff I didn't care for much but it would just be a "difference of opinion" thing.  The Admiral who inspects the Normandy in ME1 may not care much for aliens, but it's a legitimate opinion that he's entitled to.

Instead, my problem is with how utterly and completely amoral the organization is.  This is an organization that used Thresher Maws to destroy the *human* colony at Akuze, and then sicced the same Thresher Maws on the Alliance marine unit that arrived to investigate why the colony went silent.

ME2 barely touches the surface of that.  There are hints here and there, but the biggest "hint" (i.e. Jack's backstory) was given at least a little plausible deniability since it's clear that some of the activities there were being hidden even from TIM.

[Delta Green]

Agree with the rhetoric frown on many of their actions. However, there is definitely an undercurrent of truth to what they say. The council has proven unchanged, the alliance as apathetic, only Cerberus rose up to fight for the lost colonists. They were even willing to work with aliens to do so, as tools yes but it still shows some level of trust for individuals of other races.



I really hope that TIM in ME3 does not become comic book villain riding a giant human reaper made to look like himself and laughing maniacally as he crushes the citadel. But a person so convinced and so convicted in their vision for human advancement they see only the big picture.



In any case, the collector station is not to be discarded likely. The thranx cannon after all came about by reverse engineering Sovereign, something useful might be found in the collector base.

[Proud Larry]

Something useful? Like what? How to make seeker swarms? How to make a reaper?



I already collected an intact Particle Beam, what more could you want to study?

[Markinator_123]

Eumerin wrote...

It's not their pro-human stance that bothers me.  If they were just a pro-human group, then there would be some stuff I didn't care for much but it would just be a "difference of opinion" thing.  The Admiral who inspects the Normandy in ME1 may not care much for aliens, but it's a legitimate opinion that he's entitled to.

Instead, my problem is with how utterly and completely amoral the organization is.  This is an organization that used Thresher Maws to destroy the *human* colony at Akuze, and then sicced the same Thresher Maws on the Alliance marine unit that arrived to investigate why the colony went silent.

ME2 barely touches the surface of that.  There are hints here and there, but the biggest "hint" (i.e. Jack's backstory) was given at least a little plausible deniability since it's clear that some of the activities there were being hidden even from TIM.

TIM is no better. He ordered an assassination of a political candidate, ordered an attack on the Migrant Fleet, and lets not forget that he even risked your lives in the game.

[Commisar_V]

EJon wrote...

And if you watch the ending where shepard dies, TIM even tells Joker that his job was done and he's lost his ship. That guy just uses people, and once your job is done your a liability. Your gone. He's power hungry.

Or desperate and heartless.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

OpDDay2001 wrote...
 What did he could he mean by saying Cerberus was protecting humanity from the "Reapers and beyond"? Something is very off with Cerberus. O dunno... there are far too many story implications in which Cerberus turns out to be something more insidious than it seems.

I think that just means they won't go away once the reapers are finished. As for my own opinions  of Cerberus, I certainly haven't forgotten what they've done or what they are capable of, and I certainly don't trust them. But the Alliance and the Council have stuck their heads deep in the sand and they're not coming out. I just don't see them acting until it is far, far too late. So as long as our goals are aligned, I'll work with Cerberus. 

[Eristik]

A necessary evil. The Cerberus in ME was shown as completely evil, but ME2 has shown them in a different light. I don't trust TIM, but I trust the crew. TIM is too shady to trust, but he knows I'm useful to him and he's useful to me.

[Eumerin]

Markinator_123 wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

It's not their pro-human stance that bothers me.  If they were just a pro-human group, then there would be some stuff I didn't care for much but it would just be a "difference of opinion" thing.  The Admiral who inspects the Normandy in ME1 may not care much for aliens, but it's a legitimate opinion that he's entitled to.

Instead, my problem is with how utterly and completely amoral the organization is.  This is an organization that used Thresher Maws to destroy the *human* colony at Akuze, and then sicced the same Thresher Maws on the Alliance marine unit that arrived to investigate why the colony went silent.

ME2 barely touches the surface of that.  There are hints here and there, but the biggest "hint" (i.e. Jack's backstory) was given at least a little plausible deniability since it's clear that some of the activities there were being hidden even from TIM.

TIM is no better. He ordered an assassination of a political candidate, ordered an attack on the Migrant Fleet, and lets not forget that he even risked your lives in the game.

I think you're misunderstanding me.  My mention of Jack's background isn't meant to give TIM an "out".  Rather, I'm complaining because it appears that Bioware is giving TIM an out.  In ME1, Cerberus was an utterly abhorrant organization.  In ME2, they do some stuff that you may not like but the worst of the stuff from ME1 wasn't shown.

Not telling you about the trap is bad, yes.  But it's pretty small fries all things considered (mind you, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't get ticked off about it).  Assassinating a political candidate is significantly worse.  And of course there's the incident with the Quarians in which Cerberus agents attempted to blow up a Quarian ship.  But since that's never really explained (beyond the vague details that Tali is aware of) it's possible (albeit unlikely) that there's a justification for it that a decent person would actually agree with.  Try to keep in mind that I'm talking about from the player's PoV, and the player may not be familiar with things like the second Mass Effect novel.  Jack's backstory is somewhat similar.  We know that bad things went on at the facility, but we don't know exactly how many of the bad things are actually the fault of TIM and how many are the fault of the staff deciding to exceed TIM's orders.

Many of the actions that you personally uncover in ME1 are unequivocably bad.  And quite possibly the worst of Cerberus's actions that are revealed in the first game - i.e. the destruction of Akuze basically "just to see what happens when thresher maws attack" - actually involves the Sole Survivor background for Shepard.  This all just more or less got glossed over when the second game was written.  The most that you really get is a radio bulletin announcing that Toombs and Wayne will be testifying against Cerberus (and mentioning the death of Kahoku), and an e-mail from Toombs talking about how angry he is to hear that you're working with Cerberus now.

[InvaderErl]

Whatever doubts I had about blowing the base up were done away with when Illusive Man said that the tech would have ensured Human dominance.

[KalosCast]

These are the people who slaughtered my entire unit on Akuze for research data. **** 'em.

[Exile Isan]

Considering that my Shepard watched her entire unit die on Akuze and that it was Cerberus that set all that up her opinion isn't going to change. Not to mention all the other things: Jack (I don't care if TIM didn't authorize what they did he still started it), using a sentient/sapient species as attack dogs (rachni), turning an entire human colony on Chasca into Husks, want human domination in the galaxy, not equality, domination which doesn't sit well with my Shepard...since her best friend is a quarian. No I still hate Cerberus and I always will.

[Nightvision91]

I never trusted Cerberus. They caused a hell of a lot of problems in ME1, and they killed an Alliance Admiral. I do agree though with whoever said I trust the people fighting alongside of me, but not the organization.

[Spectre_Shepard]

[quote]OpDDay2001 wrote...

I trust them about as much as I'd trust a group of pyjack in a food shed.

This. Exactly this.

[Abirn]

You know what. I'm with cerberus. Regardless of what their end game plot is they at least care about saving us from extinction.



What has the council done other than stick their fingers in their ears shouting "I can't hear you"

[KnightofPhoenix]

Delta Green wrote...
I really hope that TIM in ME3 does not become comic book villain riding a giant human reaper made to look like himself and laughing maniacally as he crushes the citadel. But a person so convinced and so convicted in their vision for human advancement they see only the big picture.

Amen to that. In addition to that, we should have the option to cooperate with him.
I have enough faith in Bioware that I know it doesn't make comic book villains. Just complicated characters.