147 réponses à ce sujet

[pelhikano]

They made a human shaped Reaper just so that Shepard would be physically capable of grabbing its collar.

[Mister Mage]

[quote]ianw92me2 wrote...

The illusive man is not only the avatar of a reaper, BUT is also the shadow broker.
[/quote]
Stupid.

[qutoe]In ME1 Saren has a strange light blue glow from his eyes, which you later find out is emitted because of his robotic implants.
The illusive man also has the same light blue glow, and his eyes look like they are implanted with some sort of robotics. [/quote]
Saren got the implants only after your fight with him on Virmire, when what you tell him fills his head with bothersome doubt.

[quote]Futhermore in ME:Redemption the Shadow Broker was hired by the Collectors to retrieve Shepard's body and deliver it to them. [/quote]
And Liara got the body from the Shadow Broker and gave it to Cerberus.  Why get the body, then have it stolen from you just to have it given back to you?  Stupid.

[quote]TIM did this exactly.[/quote]
Stupid.


[quote]He spent 2 years repairing him, only to send him on a suicide mission.(directly into the collectors hands)
The reason he went through the trouble of everything is so that Shep would be in top condition when delivered to the collectors.[/quote]
Or, that's really, really stupid.  Why?  There are a dozen places the Collectors could have had Shepard with TIM's resources and/or support taken away.  He hurts the Collectors before going on the mission.  This is really, really stupid.  I hope you realize how stupid you are.

[quote]AND the man knows pretty much everything, he has the will, the power, and the resources to be the SB.[/quote]
And, incidentally, fight against himself.

[quote]
So why did the collectors want the body of shep?
As many people have said, the reapers were building a human reaper to replace sovereign because the humans were obviously the most dominant life form in the galaxy.
So why not get the biggest baller of them all to comprise the mind of the new reaper? (this baller being shep)[/quote]

....

The rest of this continues to spiral downwards in a death spiral of idiocy, but I think points have been made here.

[XenogearsOwnsAll]

ianw92me2 wrote...

The illusive man is not only the avatar of a reaper, BUT is also the shadow broker.

Why?

In ME1 Saren has a strange light blue glow from his eyes, which you later find out is emitted because of his robotic implants.
The illusive man also has the same light blue glow, and his eyes look like they are implanted with some sort of robotics.

Futhermore in ME:Redemption the Shadow Broker was hired by the Collectors to retrieve Shepard's body and deliver it to them.

TIM did this exactly.
He spent 2 years repairing him, only to send him on a suicide mission.(directly into the collectors hands)
The reason he went through the trouble of everything is so that Shep would be in top condition when delivered to the collectors.

AND the man knows pretty much everything, he has the will, the power, and the resources to be the SB.

So why did the collectors want the body of shep?
As many people have said, the reapers were building a human reaper to replace sovereign because the humans were obviously the most dominant life form in the galaxy.
So why not get the biggest baller of them all to comprise the mind of the new reaper? (this baller being shep)

In ME1 Saren says something to the effect of Humanity needs to learn its place
(because humans are the new guys and they are seemingly insignificant)

However in ME2 the reapers realize humans potential, as they have gotten attention from those who are infinitely greater. So why not try to advance the already top species even more.

That way the reapers fatten the humans up if you will, as they create a human reaper, and as they enslave humanity to do what the collectors do.

TIM is threatened by anything non-human? why because he just loves humanity? NO.
A perfect front to prevent collaboration, and advance humanity's presence in the galaxy at the cost of other species.

One example of this would be how he sees the Migrant fleet as a threat.
How in the hell would the largest fleet in the galaxy be a threat when the reapers are en route to kick some ass? They are a threat because they could actually put up a fight against the reapers.

So basically I think Martin Sheen is the Antichrist in the ME universe, despite his awesome voice acting.

no no no no no no no NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOO
NO
NO
NO

NO

NO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ianw92me2]

"Or, that's really, really stupid. Why? There are a dozen places the Collectors could have had Shepard with TIM's resources and/or support taken away. He hurts the Collectors before going on the mission. This is really, really stupid. I hope you realize how stupid you are."



You are an ****, congratulations on being able to disprove a conspiracy theory, on a thread that pretty much every post has little to no proof. I'm sure you feel better now. In no way are you entitled to be rude, or act like you know everything because in reality you don't know ****. No one knows, that is why the thread is in existence, for people to theorize and guess what is going to happen.



The reapers have all the time in the universe, literally. So perhaps the misdirection, and working against himself would provide a balance that the shadow broker strives to achieve. The end justifies the means, so why do the means have to be completely logical? By gaining trust throughout an entire game, the betrayal would be that much more brutal in the third. It was just food for thought to get the conversation going, not a full-proof scientific discovery.



I hope in normal day to day interaction you don't act like the only possible correct answer is the one you agree with.

[Spectreshadow]

I still think the human reaper was supposed to open a way into the galaxy for the other reapers. Harbinger was pissed because now they have to take the long way into the galaxy. Just think about how much Shepard has ruined the plans of the reapers. That alone is reason to be angry.

[DingoEffect]

That is amazingly scary to think TIM is behind this as well. I like it.

[DingoEffect]

Retribution is set in the universe fans know well from the video game and novel series — one in which humanity has explored the very farthest reaches of the universe, only to discover the ruthless Reapers, a race bent on extinguishing all organic life.



One man is bent on discovering the Reapers' secrets, the mysterious Illusive Man, the leader of a pro-human, black ops group, Cerberus. And he's devised the perfect plan: implant a human subject with Reaper technology in order to study the enemy.



He also has the perfect test subject — Paul Grayson, an ex-Cerberus operative. Grayson betrayed Cerberus in order to save his daughter. So when Grayson is kidnapped and made the subject of Cerberus' evil experiments, the Illusive Man will finally have his revenge...





This is coming from the new Mass Effect book that has yet to be released. So I don't think TIM is helping the Reapers...

http://masseffect.wi...ct:_Retribution

[monika26]

I don't think using the Reaper IFF to access the Omega 4 relay safely had any effect. Think about it, why didn't the Collectors just recover the IFF and use it to access the relay? If they can wander around abducting entire human colonies, surely they could have made a trip to the Reaper ship and picked up the IFF.



Of course one may argue that the Collectors didn't know where it was located, however I think they would have had an easier time locating it than TIM and Cerberus.

[PARAGON87]

In just beating ME2 for the first time about a half hour ago, I was puzzled why the Collectors would want to create a Human-Reaper, also. But thinking of the possibilities that this could be another Sovereign, or a uber-steroid-Reaper, kind of answered my question.

Modifié par PARAGON87, 03 février 2010 - 10:01 .

[Su-do]

Just my thoughts after playing through 1 & 2, the plan seemed fairly simple and sinister from the details gathered through out the game in my opinion.



The Reapers have been doing this for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years. This is how they evolve, they travel around galaxies harvesting sentient beings to "infuse" and evolve their own construction.



The whole relay system was built as a trigger, like fishing bobbers through out the galaxies, when they get a nibble, they send a scout (Sovereign like), to report to see if it was a fluke, or if there is a sentient being ready for harvesting/assimilation.



The Reapers use the Relay systems as well for travel, since randomly jumping around using FTL travel systems, could still account for errors, and issues. Obviously accidents happen (like the mission aboard the dead reaper vessel), but they're not used to the opposition they are currently facing (or are they...).



If you look at the story behind the races, you can see the potential outcome for species domination, so in a sense, the Reapers intentionally, leave galaxies a lone for natural selection processes.



Great game, and my ideals aren't totally cohesive, but the theory fits on why the Reapers do what they do.

[Su-do]

Forgot to include the reason for the Human shaped Reaper. They hinted at it through the dialogue options.



Reapers assimilate/mold/harvest after the species with the greatest potential. If the Genophage hadn't been implemented, its very possible that the Krogans (given enough time), would have been the dominant species in this galaxy, and the Reapers would be coming to harvest them.



Sure other races found the citadel first, but after the events of ME1, it was proven how tenacious, innovative, adaptable as well as diverse humanity is, and if Reapers need new material to harvest, you'd want something just like that.



Galactic evolution if you will, with the Reapers being the ultimate genetic thiefs!

[XenogearsOwnsAll]

Su-do wrote...

Forgot to include the reason for the Human shaped Reaper. They hinted at it through the dialogue options.

Reapers assimilate/mold/harvest after the species with the greatest potential. If the Genophage hadn't been implemented, its very possible that the Krogans (given enough time), would have been the dominant species in this galaxy, and the Reapers would be coming to harvest them.

Sure other races found the citadel first, but after the events of ME1, it was proven how tenacious, innovative, adaptable as well as diverse humanity is, and if Reapers need new material to harvest, you'd want something just like that.

Galactic evolution if you will, with the Reapers being the ultimate genetic thiefs!

Yes, we know that the Reapers are planning on harvesting humanity and turning them into reapers.  The question is, why not wait until they've conqured the galaxy instead of secretly building a Reaper?


Speaking of which, I just thought of something...  What if they really were planning on hitting Earth, as EDI speculated?  The Human Reaper could help them succeed in doing so, and they could have quickly harvested enough humans from Earth to build hundreds of Human Reapers.

Finding the ruins of a Reaper with the IFF was extremely lucky; if they hadn't found that, all anyone would be able to do is sit and wait for the Collectors to assemble the Reaper army.  It doesn't matter if it would take 5 years or 100, once they finish, the Galaxy would be screwed.

They could have harvested all of the humans in the galaxy and eradicated everything else without the rest of the fleet even having to come to the galaxy!  Hell, they could probably do it with 4-5 Reapers.

I mean, they are obviously going to have to replace the Keepers as the species that maintains the Citadel, so they would just take care of that before warping out into dark space to join the rest of the Reapers.

The only thing is, it seems a bit weak that Bioware would let you stop the plan before it even gets off the ground.  I mean, it's bit anticlimactic.  But still, it's a far better "Plan B" than just attacking the Citadel a second time.

Modifié par XenogearsOwnsAll, 03 février 2010 - 10:47 .

[Su-do]

XenogearsOwnsAll wrote...

Su-do wrote...

Forgot to include the reason for the Human shaped Reaper. They hinted at it through the dialogue options.

Reapers assimilate/mold/harvest after the species with the greatest potential. If the Genophage hadn't been implemented, its very possible that the Krogans (given enough time), would have been the dominant species in this galaxy, and the Reapers would be coming to harvest them.

Sure other races found the citadel first, but after the events of ME1, it was proven how tenacious, innovative, adaptable as well as diverse humanity is, and if Reapers need new material to harvest, you'd want something just like that.

Galactic evolution if you will, with the Reapers being the ultimate genetic thiefs!

Yes, we know that the Reapers are planning on harvesting humanity and turning them into reapers.  The question is, why not wait until they've conqured the galaxy instead of secretly building a Reaper?


Speaking of which, I just thought of something...  What if they really were planning on hitting Earth, as EDI speculated?  The Human Reaper could help them succeed in doing so, and they could have quickly harvested enough humans from Earth to build hundreds of Human Reapers.

Finding the ruins of a Reaper with the IFF was extremely lucky; if they hadn't found that, all anyone would be able to do is sit and wait for the Collectors to assemble the Reaper army.  It doesn't matter if it would take 5 years or 100, once they finish, the Galaxy would be screwed.

They could have harvested all of the humans in the galaxy and eradicated everything else without the rest of the fleet even having to come to the galaxy!  Hell, they could probably do it with 4-5 Reapers.

I mean, they are obviously going to have to replace the Keepers as the species that maintains the Citadel, so they would just take care of that before warping out into dark space to join the rest of the Reapers.

The only thing is, it seems a bit weak that Bioware would let you stop the plan before it even gets off the ground.  I mean, it's bit anticlimactic.  But still, it's a far better "Plan B" than just attacking the Citadel a second time.

Why not wait?

My guess would be that the danger posed by humanity if left unchecked for hundreds of years (or how ever long it would take the collectors/reapers), would be too large of a threat to the Reapers. Humans were not the first into space (this harvest cycle), nor were they the first to find the Relay. But their ability to adapt and assimilate is extremely dangerous because of how fast they are able to do so. So much in fact, that other alien species are extremely wary (if not down right scared), of humanity.

I'm sure over the millions of years the Reapers have been doing this, they've developed quite a good routine, and understand the consequences of interfering too soon, or too late. If they wait too late, the species becomes too good, too dangerous.  The Reapers will still harvest them, but they would loose a lot of them, and when you're trying to propegate a species, you want to mitagate the losses.

[XenogearsOwnsAll]

Su-do wrote...

XenogearsOwnsAll wrote...

Su-do wrote...

Forgot to include the reason for the Human shaped Reaper. They hinted at it through the dialogue options.

Reapers assimilate/mold/harvest after the species with the greatest potential. If the Genophage hadn't been implemented, its very possible that the Krogans (given enough time), would have been the dominant species in this galaxy, and the Reapers would be coming to harvest them.

Sure other races found the citadel first, but after the events of ME1, it was proven how tenacious, innovative, adaptable as well as diverse humanity is, and if Reapers need new material to harvest, you'd want something just like that.

Galactic evolution if you will, with the Reapers being the ultimate genetic thiefs!

Yes, we know that the Reapers are planning on harvesting humanity and turning them into reapers.  The question is, why not wait until they've conqured the galaxy instead of secretly building a Reaper?


Speaking of which, I just thought of something...  What if they really were planning on hitting Earth, as EDI speculated?  The Human Reaper could help them succeed in doing so, and they could have quickly harvested enough humans from Earth to build hundreds of Human Reapers.

Finding the ruins of a Reaper with the IFF was extremely lucky; if they hadn't found that, all anyone would be able to do is sit and wait for the Collectors to assemble the Reaper army.  It doesn't matter if it would take 5 years or 100, once they finish, the Galaxy would be screwed.

They could have harvested all of the humans in the galaxy and eradicated everything else without the rest of the fleet even having to come to the galaxy!  Hell, they could probably do it with 4-5 Reapers.

I mean, they are obviously going to have to replace the Keepers as the species that maintains the Citadel, so they would just take care of that before warping out into dark space to join the rest of the Reapers.

The only thing is, it seems a bit weak that Bioware would let you stop the plan before it even gets off the ground.  I mean, it's bit anticlimactic.  But still, it's a far better "Plan B" than just attacking the Citadel a second time.

Why not wait?

My guess would be that the danger posed by humanity if left unchecked for hundreds of years (or how ever long it would take the collectors/reapers), would be too large of a threat to the Reapers. Humans were not the first into space (this harvest cycle), nor were they the first to find the Relay. But their ability to adapt and assimilate is extremely dangerous because of how fast they are able to do so. So much in fact, that other alien species are extremely wary (if not down right scared), of humanity.

I'm sure over the millions of years the Reapers have been doing this, they've developed quite a good routine, and understand the consequences of interfering too soon, or too late. If they wait too late, the species becomes too good, too dangerous.  The Reapers will still harvest them, but they would loose a lot of them, and when you're trying to propegate a species, you want to mitagate the losses.

These are good points.  However, if the Reapers were going to take hundreds of years to reach the galaxy then Shepard wouldn't be alive for Mass Effect 3. 

I can see the Reapers wanting to harvest the humans before they arrive in the galaxy in order to stop them from evolving further and to eliminate their biggest threat, though.  I guess that they would eventually hit earth, and the Reapers
produced would be enough to crush any defense that the galaxy might be planning against the incoming horde.

[Time Lord 117]

Reaper: The humans are being very uncooperative with us, we had better just fly over there.

next thing you know Shepard come in to save the day.

Modifié par Time Lord 117, 04 février 2010 - 12:09 .

[Annihilator27]

I wonder how long it'll take them to get to the milky way, I mean Our galaxy is 100,000 light years across.

[mentosman8]

And yet, as soon as they get inside, they have the relay system to transit that 100,000 light years extremely quickly. Not to mention, there is no way to gauge how close they were in the final cutscene, nor how fast they can travel.

[Cablucktocour]

Harbinger: "That which you know as reapers are your salvation through destruction"

With that said I do imagine that the reapers - who aren't able to reproduce-

believe the humans to be most powerful, and therefore the most invaluable of the races in the galaxy and they want to use us as a way to evolve so that they can continue to be a lot of steps ahead of the next race who could be a threat the next time they destroy life in the universe...

In other words, they take the best that the galaxy tries to offer so that they can continue their cycle and continue to be the most powerful race in the universe?

[Cablucktocour]

Another reason could be that they want to make us the next protheans=collectors because of our DNA properties that Mordin talked about while doing his loyalty mission (it could have been the mission when you recruit grunt) when you see that the krogans experiment with people trying to cure the genophage...

[Anticitizen1]

I've posted this somewhere else, but it fits here as well:

Honestly I don't see the Reapers regarding ANY organic life as equals or a threat. They know they are beyond anything organics can comprehend as well as technologically so far ahead of everything in the Galaxy. So the idea that they find the Human race worthy doesn't seem to fit. They don't regard anyone but themselves as worthy, and humans aren't the first to destroy a Reaper (that is shown in ME2).

So I really don't think the idea that they bring the superior race into their "ranks" every cycle is correct. However, I do think the Reapers might be interested in upgrading their own technology; mixing Reaper tech with organics, and they are experimenting with Humans. That is shown in the Scions that you fight during the game, and obviously the Human-Reaper. And yes, they have taken notice of the Human race, and I'm sure they are a little pissed (anger probably also being something beneath the Reapers). But what better way to experiment, replace Sovereign (who is MUCH closer to the Citadel and can travel through the Omega 4 Relay), and at the same time thin out the numbers of a possible and probable future enemy, than to abduct Humans and use them as test subjects.

I really don't think the Species is important to the Reapers. I think the organic material is all they are concerned with.
They obviously tried with the Protheans, and probably every species before them. Maybe Humans are the only ones that work.

Modifié par Anticitizen1, 04 février 2010 - 12:56 .

[Kharn-ivor]

Well in the long run their plan is to harvest all sapien life to make new reapers.(I think reapers see organics as we see Wheat.)

In the short term, something I noticed is the amount of star that are acting up, maybe thats their doing. Stars going (super)nova give off loads of energy maybe they want to use that as a way of getting to our galaxy, they couldnt fly here its too far.


As for the human reaper I think maybe they wanted to use it to attack the citadel again and use that.

Modifié par Kharn-ivor, 04 février 2010 - 01:03 .

[SunfighterG8]

Im still not certain what the IFF did.... they alluded to the fact that ships pass though that gate without an IFF and 'never return'. We passed though that gate too and got attacked...probably just like anybody else that went though without an IFF. And the IFF showed signs of knowing it wasnt on a reaper by signalling the collectors...so.....why did we need an IFF again?



And im still saying we did something the reapers wanted by entering that gate...there is no reason why that gate should glow red unless its just supposed to be a marker for the player for gameplay reasons...which is a strange thing to do. I think they wanted us to go though that gate....they wanted to collect shepard by having him come to them (hence why they took the normandy crew, to have shep attack them all stupid as the Patriarch says)...... The reapers wanted shepard out of the way because hes the only one taking the reaper threat seriously and the only one thats so far stopped them....we did everything they wanted us to do....The reapers just were not expecting to lose when we fell into their trap of attacking the collector base. The collectors failed, the reapers will find another way to stop/harvest shepard.

[Cablucktocour]

I don't know if it's just me but didn't Harbinger look like the collectors? I think that there were other space traveling races wile the protheans lived but they where the "better ones" and therefore the main enemy in ME2 (Harbinger) who takes the lead on this attack on the galaxy is the leader because he is the most advanced/ best/ newest member of the reapers. Maybe, just maybe the reapers believes that the humans are the next collectors and that the human/reaper/Arnold Schwarzenegger thing is supposed to be the leader on the NEXT galactic genocide because of the reapers long-time plan?

[Urazz]

Spectreshadow wrote...

I still think the human reaper was supposed to open a way into the galaxy for the other reapers. Harbinger was pissed because now they have to take the long way into the galaxy. Just think about how much Shepard has ruined the plans of the reapers. That alone is reason to be angry.

Exactly, my thought.  Also, using Humanity as fuel for a new reaper would either eliminate them as a threat or weaken them enough that the original plan Soveriegn was using in ME1 would work since humanity wouldn't be an obstacle.

[Cablucktocour]

I remember also from the first game that sovereign said that HE is a legion and that makes me believe that:

Harbinger is the representation of the civilization of the protheans therefore, i think that, Terminator reaper is the reaper representation of the human race = the human "legion", meaning that the reapers do in fact believe=

(Harbinger): "That which you know as reapers are your salvation through destruction"