105 réponses à ce sujet

[Akimb0]

blank1 wrote...

Jewish. No, not being racist. It's just that the Quarians have so many Hebrew references. The star system named Sheol and the planet named Gei-Hinnom, in a Quarian system, and the fact that the Quarians opened their conclave with a traditional Jewish festival blessing (but in english) that was spoken by one of the female admirality members. It went like, "Blessed be the ancestors who have kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season." This is basically the exact translation of the traditional Jewish blessing, called the "shehecheyanu." Just replace "Ancestors" with "God." It's chanted at every major Jewish festival.

Maybe I'm reaching, but I think there are too many references. Perhasp the Quarians are modeled after Jewish people? I mean, exile from homeland/planet and all...

FYI - Jews are not a "race".

[OverlordNexas]

I thought they were more like Gypsies.

[NeoGuardian86]

interesting....



i've always thought of the Quarians as a bit like the Palestinians.

mind you i'm Arab (Saudi), and from the accents, to the head covers, to the whole idea of losing their 'homeworld' after making the decision to go to war.

The importance of the pilgrimage is interesting, because in Islam, everyone must do the Pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in their life. it's not the same sort of Pilgrimage but the whole idea of having to do it.



they wander, hoping and dreaming of a new homeworld. and as evident in ME2, argue amongst themselves of whether to settle for a different place to call home, or to go to war again.



I can see why people would think it's an analogy of Jewish story of looking for a home.

and it's a strength to the Mass Effect writers.



because that's probably why i've felt so strongly towards the Quarians.



Neither the Jewish or Palestinian idea are word for word spoken there, but there is enough room in it for interpretation.

[Badpie]

Akimb0 wrote...

blank1 wrote...

Jewish. No, not being racist. It's just that the Quarians have so many Hebrew references. The star system named Sheol and the planet named Gei-Hinnom, in a Quarian system, and the fact that the Quarians opened their conclave with a traditional Jewish festival blessing (but in english) that was spoken by one of the female admirality members. It went like, "Blessed be the ancestors who have kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season." This is basically the exact translation of the traditional Jewish blessing, called the "shehecheyanu." Just replace "Ancestors" with "God." It's chanted at every major Jewish festival.

Maybe I'm reaching, but I think there are too many references. Perhasp the Quarians are modeled after Jewish people? I mean, exile from homeland/planet and all...

FYI - Jews are not a "race".

All my Jewish friends say it's both a race and a religion. 

[Shell_Kracker]

Shell_Kracker wrote...

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

Think about it. The Jews were forced to wander in the desert before reaching the promised land.

The quarians are galactic rejects forced to live in the Migrant Fleet.

Quarians are based on Jewish history and culture. Bravo Bioware.

Its not that simple.

The Quarians have 'Zionists' on their fleet, who want to 'retake the homeworld', and some who want peace and to settle elsewhere, etc.

The Geth are a misunderstood enemy that reside behind a 'veil' of secrecy, and people are paranoid of them.  But Legion reveals that the vast majority of Geth don't actually have anything against anyone - but they would defend their 'land' against the Quarians if they ever attacked.

It is another case of science fiction using metaphor to tackle a controversial subject.

Just thought I would quote this, because too many people are thinking its some simplistic 'promised land' metaphor.

[Badpie]

I think realistically the writers probably selectively pulled ideas from a few different backgrounds and histories and such.

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

yeah the Quarians are most defiantly based around the Jewish people wandering the desert (galaxy) for 20 years (300 years), and will eventually return home, or maybe not if my Shepard decides to side with the Geth in ME 3

[Shell_Kracker]

NeoGuardian86 wrote...

interesting....

i've always thought of the Quarians as a bit like the Palestinians.
mind you i'm Arab (Saudi), and from the accents, to the head covers, to the whole idea of losing their 'homeworld' after making the decision to go to war.
The importance of the pilgrimage is interesting, because in Islam, everyone must do the Pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in their life. it's not the same sort of Pilgrimage but the whole idea of having to do it.

they wander, hoping and dreaming of a new homeworld. and as evident in ME2, argue amongst themselves of whether to settle for a different place to call home, or to go to war again.

I can see why people would think it's an analogy of Jewish story of looking for a home.
and it's a strength to the Mass Effect writers.

because that's probably why i've felt so strongly towards the Quarians.

Neither the Jewish or Palestinian idea are word for word spoken there, but there is enough room in it for interpretation.

Interesting NeoGuardian. 

I think however that the Geth are a metaphor for Muslims - because according to Legion, only 5% of them chose to follow Saren - so its like a metaphor for the paranoia that some people in the west have toward the Islamic world - they see everyone as a potential extremist, when in reality, the vast majority of Muslims, hold no grudge against anyone and are decent folk.

This would make hardline Quarians like Admiral Xen, a metaphor for the Zionist movement, in that they want to retake a homeworld that nobody in their living memory has actually seen - just as the Jewish people following WW2 had nothing to do with Palestine, but saw it as a symbolic homeland.

Both sides are victims in their own way - and I hope that in the third game, Shepard can help both put aside their differences.

[Shell_Kracker]

Shepard needs a Vacation wrote...

yeah the Quarians are most defiantly based around the Jewish people wandering the desert (galaxy) for 20 years (300 years), and will eventually return home, or maybe not if my Shepard decides to side with the Geth in ME 3

Or side with both.

Legion made it clear the Geth mean nobody harm.

So it would not neccecarily be a paragon move to side with the Quarians.

The paragon move would be to work out an understanding between both.

Lets not forget that in the game, the Geth had a right to rebel, as the Quarians pre-emptively struck them, just because they gained consciousness.

[Akimb0]

Badpie wrote...

Akimb0 wrote...

blank1 wrote...

Jewish. No, not being racist. It's just that the Quarians have so many Hebrew references. The star system named Sheol and the planet named Gei-Hinnom, in a Quarian system, and the fact that the Quarians opened their conclave with a traditional Jewish festival blessing (but in english) that was spoken by one of the female admirality members. It went like, "Blessed be the ancestors who have kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season." This is basically the exact translation of the traditional Jewish blessing, called the "shehecheyanu." Just replace "Ancestors" with "God." It's chanted at every major Jewish festival.

Maybe I'm reaching, but I think there are too many references. Perhasp the Quarians are modeled after Jewish people? I mean, exile from homeland/planet and all...

FYI - Jews are not a "race".

All my Jewish friends say it's both a race and a religion. 

Either way, I don't like the way you felt you needed to say "not being racist" just because you mentioned Jews.

p.s. That applies to everyone who does that. Oh and sorry to derail your thread somewhat.

On topic: Most religions when they're taken down to bare bones are fundamentally the same so I can see why people find similarities. It's also in human nature to relate the unknown to something we can recognise.

Modifié par Akimb0, 03 février 2010 - 02:36 .

[PingoBlack]

Now I'll throw one into this discussion ...



If they are based on Jewish culture, why do they share so many similarities with Roma and Beduin peoples? Neither of them are Jewish.

[hawat333]

Or simply a cultivated man?

There are always inspirations.



Or it's a signature.

Whenever I build up a new world (either fantasy or scifi) for a novel, I can't help but lay down a reference about buddhism, either in a character or in ancient scrolls, or a name or anything, really. And I found a lot of writers using these kind of signos.

[vigna]

Shell_Kracker wrote...

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

Think about it. The Jews were forced to wander in the desert before reaching the promised land.

The quarians are galactic rejects forced to live in the Migrant Fleet.

Quarians are based on Jewish history and culture. Bravo Bioware.

Its not that simple.

The Quarians have 'Zionists' on their fleet, who want to 'retake the homeworld', and some who want peace and to settle elsewhere, etc.

The Geth are a misunderstood enemy that reside behind a 'veil' of secrecy, and people are paranoid of them.  But Legion reveals that the vast majority of Geth don't actually have anything against anyone - but they would defend their 'land' against the Quarians if they ever attacked.

It is another case of science fiction using metaphor to tackle a controversial subject.

^^^That.

[Prolefeed]

The Quarians can be said to be representative of pretty much any mistreated, displaced people, ever.



There's the Jew thing, which has been covered.



There's the Palestinian thing, which some mentioned earlier.



There's the Gypsy thing, with "Quarians are lying thieves" sentiment many aliens hold.



There's the Mexican immigrant thing, with "the Quarians are coming to take our jobs." (Really it could probably be any number of ethnic immigrants, to any country at any time, but I live in the US so this is the one that struck me.)



There's also an arguable relation between the Quarian/Geth conflict and real-world occurrences of genocide. The Quarians attempted to exterminate the Geth, who they view as "lesser" beings, and failed. They're now obsessed with regaining their "rightful" homeworld from the Geth. It's like what might have happened if the Tutsis had defended themselves from the Hutus in Rwanda.

[xMister Vx]

Interesting. Going for three pages on an official forum about a controversial issue without degenerating into something nasty - that must be a record.



The OP isn't exactly right though. I doubt that someone said "we're going to tackle the Middle Eastern problems, so let's create a metaphor for the Jewish people". They just wrote a pretty interesting story with possible real-world parallels, - always spices up things, but real-world allusions aren't the goal. And those elements are mixed up, of course, so no one would blame them for no being subtle.

[DJ Doc]

Sometimes I wonder if anybody on this board actually do read sci-fi and I'm not talking about Star Wars or Star Trek novels...

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

Seriously with whole lost tribes dynamic and wandering to learn how to conquer their homeland nobody noticed this before?

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

Everyone Seems the for get the story of Battle Star Galactica , where the cyclons (Geth) force humans off their 12 colonies, but then again one could argue that this story is also bases on the Jewish people wandering looking for a home.

[Lucasian]

Perhaps Judaism is based on Quarian culture instead?



THINK ABOUT IT

[Solmanian]

To me they are more like palastiniens. Instead of trying to live in peace, the moment the saw geth are becoming more than something they can use, they tried to wipe them out, and banished from their homes because of it. The quarian military is weak and can't stand in a stand up fight, so they rely on sabotage, and plan to wage war through indiscriminent bombardment, very similar to the 8 yrs of constant bombardment on civilian settlement that led to "Oferet yezuka". They are seperated into ships, with each has her authority, just like the dozens of seperate gangs that rule the palastiniens. ppl advocating for peace are ridiculed and silenced, and their goverment is controled by ppl calling to launch an invasion to liberate the homeworld, no matter how unfeasible it is, just like the Hamas controled Gaza. Admiral Xen shows the islamic viewpoint, that the geth should be their servents again, just like the Koran that claims that Jews are should only be allowed to live as 2nd class citizens under islamic rule. Legion on the other hand shows the israeli side by being the moral of your sqoudmates, and most democratic (1183 votes for every decisions). He states that while they're are ready for peace, but they have been burned to many times in the past.

[Edje Edgar]

Badpie wrote...

Akimb0 wrote...

blank1 wrote...

Jewish. No, not being racist. It's just that the Quarians have so many Hebrew references. The star system named Sheol and the planet named Gei-Hinnom, in a Quarian system, and the fact that the Quarians opened their conclave with a traditional Jewish festival blessing (but in english) that was spoken by one of the female admirality members. It went like, "Blessed be the ancestors who have kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season." This is basically the exact translation of the traditional Jewish blessing, called the "shehecheyanu." Just replace "Ancestors" with "God." It's chanted at every major Jewish festival.

Maybe I'm reaching, but I think there are too many references. Perhasp the Quarians are modeled after Jewish people? I mean, exile from homeland/planet and all...

FYI - Jews are not a "race".

All my Jewish friends say it's both a race and a religion. 

They might consider it a people. As in a group of humans with a shared heritage and culture. But that doesnt make a race, it's as much a race as "The English" are a race.

*edit* Not trying to be racist is thus a mood point.

Modifié par Edje Edgar, 03 février 2010 - 03:36 .

[Barhador]

Tali is indeed a hebrew name.

Jewish: "Blessed are You, Lord our God, Ruler of the Universe,who has granted us life, sustained us and enabled us to reach this moment."
Quarian: "Blessed be the ancestors who have kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season."

They look very similar, but that does not prove the writer is jewish.

Modifié par Barhador, 03 février 2010 - 03:45 .

[mcharj11]

To me Quarians are like Roma Gypsies while the Volus are a very accurate representation of modern or international Jews.
It is however silly for people to say that the Quarians and/or their culture *is* Jewish/Arab ect ect because Earth and Humanity are in the game and that race/religion is part of that.
Notice how i used *like* and *representation* as they may be similar or based on Human faiths/ethnicities but they are not them.

Modifié par mcharj11, 03 février 2010 - 03:52 .

[adriano_c]

NeoGuardian86 wrote...

interesting....

i've always thought of the Quarians as a bit like the Palestinians.
mind you i'm Arab (Saudi), and from the accents, to the head covers, to the whole idea of losing their 'homeworld' after making the decision to go to war.
 

Good points (particularly the latter).

To be honest though, it never even crossed my mind that people would equate 'Quarians' to Jews. Upon reflection, though, they definitely seem more comparable to Palestinians.

[Eludajae]

Actually all science fiction takes it basis in real life, having the Quarians mirror the Jewish people isn't a new thing at all, if you look deeply into Star Wars and Star Trek they do the same thing. I applaud Bioware for making the Quarians so openly based on the Jewish people. Its about time non Christian cultures were openly mirrored in sci fi anyway.