105 réponses à ce sujet

[Prolefeed]

Shepard needs a Vacation wrote...

Everyone Seems the for get the story of Battle Star Galactica , where the cyclons (Geth) force humans off their 12 colonies, but then again one could argue that this story is also bases on the Jewish people wandering looking for a home.

Wasn't it supposedly inspired by Vichy France, with modern Iraq and ideas from pretty much any foreign-occupied-country-ever thrown in?

Edit: Checked Wikipedia, and yeah, it totally was.

Modifié par Prolefeed, 03 février 2010 - 04:08 .

[Ghost Harbour]

yukantseame wrote...

funny, i think the volus are the jews of mass effect.

I understand why you think that based on Jewish stereotypes. I also think the Salarians seem Jewish. I'm not exactly flattered by those depictions. Sigh. I'm used to it though... 

IMO, Jews are not a race anymore than Irish or Russian is a race... They are a people. A religion. A culture. Anyone can be Jewish. There are Asian Jews, White Jews, Black Jews. Religious Jews. Non-religious Jews. The fact that the vast majority of Jews can trace their ancestry to Western/Eastern Europe after the diaspora, and therefore share similar genetic traits is just misleading. IMO, Jewish and non-Jewish scholars that have argued that Jews are a race have entirely missed the point. 

Modifié par Ghost Harbour, 03 février 2010 - 04:52 .

[Ghost Harbour]

I also noticed that there are similarities between Quarians and Jewish themes, history.

Modifié par Ghost Harbour, 03 février 2010 - 04:44 .

[AngryTigerP]

Ghost Harbour wrote...

BTW, an Israeli girl named Tali lives next to me. I also noticed that there are similarities between Quarians and Jews.

A similarity between Quarians and Jews, or between Quarians and Israelis?

[Ghost Harbour]

Sorry, I guess that was a bit unclear. I was just saying "Tali" is a pretty common name in Israel. As for the Quarians, I think that their experience in many ways is reminiscent of traditional Jewish themes and history, such as the idea of the homeland.

Modifié par Ghost Harbour, 03 février 2010 - 04:50 .

[mcharj11]

Ghost Harbour wrote...

yukantseame wrote...

funny, i think the volus are the jews of mass effect.

I understand why you think that based on Jewish stereotypes. I also think the Salarians seem Jewish. I'm not exactly flattered by those depictions. Sigh. I'm used to it though... 

IMO, Jews are not a race anymore than Irish or Russian is a race... They are a people. A religion. A culture. Anyone can be Jewish. There are Asian Jews, White Jews, Black Jews. Religious Jews. Non-religious Jews. The fact that the vast majority of Jews can trace their ancestry to Western/Eastern Europe after the diaspora, and therefore share similar genetic traits is just misleading. IMO, Jewish and non-Jewish scholars that have argued that Jews are a race have entirely missed the point. 

That's not the opinion of all your people then, i just listened to a radio program interviewing Israeli and European Jews and every single one said that Jews are a race.

I agree with you on the matter though.

Modifié par mcharj11, 03 février 2010 - 05:02 .

[ussbones]

Think about it. The jewish people looked for their "homeland" for 40 years after Egypt. The Quarians are looking to retake their "homeworld" after almost 400 years in exile. I think the similarities are there. They are just trying to make ties with actually Human historical events so the game feels real and personable to people playing it.

[Ghost Harbour]

mcharj11 wrote...

Ghost Harbour wrote...

yukantseame wrote...

funny, i think the volus are the jews of mass effect.

I understand why you think that based on Jewish stereotypes. I also think the Salarians seem Jewish. I'm not exactly flattered by those depictions. Sigh. I'm used to it though... 

IMO, Jews are not a race anymore than Irish or Russian is a race... They are a people. A religion. A culture. Anyone can be Jewish. There are Asian Jews, White Jews, Black Jews. Religious Jews. Non-religious Jews. The fact that the vast majority of Jews can trace their ancestry to Western/Eastern Europe after the diaspora, and therefore share similar genetic traits is just misleading. IMO, Jewish and non-Jewish scholars that have argued that Jews are a race have entirely missed the point. 

That's not the opinion of all your people then, i just listened to a radio program interviewing Israeli and European Jews and every single one said that Jews are a race.

I agree with you on the matter though.

I understand that. It depends who you ask. The debate is pretty tedious IMO. Some people want to believe that Jews are a race because it satisfies their desire for a neat and tidy world where black is black and white is white. It's too bad really.

[TheKnave69]

mcharj11 wrote...

To me Quarians are like Roma Gypsies while the Volus are a very accurate representation of modern or international Jews.
It is however silly for people to say that the Quarians and/or their culture *is* Jewish/Arab ect ect because Earth and Humanity are in the game and that race/religion is part of that.
Notice how i used *like* and *representation* as they may be similar or based on Human faiths/ethnicities but they are not them.

The Volus are more like the stereotypical representation of Jews.  For example, Shakespeare's Shylock the money lender.   

[john william]

I just think it's silly that you think only a Jewish writer would know about Jewish culture.

[SpideyKnight]

No hate for Tali blank, but your persistent antagonizing, "Oh I wonder how far this will go." Ineptly masked behind your would be innocent facade all the while trying to turn this into a flame war is not going unnoticed.

[izmirtheastarach]

john william wrote...

I just think it's silly that you think only a Jewish writer would know about Jewish culture.

This. Both DAO and ME have many references to many different cultures and periods. Also, since the Quarians are clearly Roma Gypsies, I'm not sure how exactly they are Jewish.

[john william]

See also: the Dwarves in the Hobbit.

[NeoGuardian86]

Solmanian wrote...

To me they are more like palastiniens. Instead of trying to live in peace, the moment the saw geth are becoming more than something they can use, they tried to wipe them out, and banished from their homes because of it. The quarian military is weak and can't stand in a stand up fight, so they rely on sabotage, and plan to wage war through indiscriminent bombardment, very similar to the 8 yrs of constant bombardment on civilian settlement that led to "Oferet yezuka". They are seperated into ships, with each has her authority, just like the dozens of seperate gangs that rule the palastiniens. ppl advocating for peace are ridiculed and silenced, and their goverment is controled by ppl calling to launch an invasion to liberate the homeworld, no matter how unfeasible it is, just like the Hamas controled Gaza. Admiral Xen shows the islamic viewpoint, that the geth should be their servents again, just like the Koran that claims that Jews are should only be allowed to live as 2nd class citizens under islamic rule. Legion on the other hand shows the israeli side by being the moral of your sqoudmates, and most democratic (1183 votes for every decisions). He states that while they're are ready for peace, but they have been burned to many times in the past.

interesting way of lookign at it and it seems as though in every case the Quarians would be in the wrong.


eh...
This really isn't the place to start up the debate on the real world situation.


I think the Quarians are very interesting race, I see mostly allusions to the Palestinians and the old Israelites.

The reason i see more of allusions to the Palestinians is probably party due to my ethnocentrism


http://en.wikipedia....i/Ethnocentrism

everyone is guilty of it (and if you say your immune to it then your outright lying to everyone and yourself).

They had workers that they created, they weren't happy and were afraid of what the AI would do and decided to go to war. they lost everything. They yearn for the homeworld again, some are desperate enough that they want to go to war for it again, and other are arguing for peace.

Neither of the two are being downplayed on the Admiralty.
and in the case of real world Palestine, not everybody is for violence. Mahmoud Abbas of the Fatah faction has repeatedly cracked down on militancy, where as Hamas creates it and wants to win an fight that is unfeasible.



ironically

Tali is both an Arabic AND Hebrew name.
check it out

http://babynamesworl...ng_of_Tali.html


This explains a lot eh?

[NeoGuardian86]

There is even an Arabic star that has Tali's name in it.



Tali al Najm (a Tauri), 384.



Tali' al Shau'lah, clusters in Scorpio, 370.

[NeoGuardian86]

did i just kill the thread?

Modifié par NeoGuardian86, 03 février 2010 - 06:58 .

[Turthalion_ni]

blank1 wrote...

I never said anything was wrong. Did I put something up for debate or something?

Why are people so argumentative on the internet lol

Because this is the internets, and on the internets your opinions are always right, and everyone elses is a bunch of fabricated lies.

[Capone666]

Of course one of the writers are jewish. Why do you think it was so difficult to amass massive wealth in ME2? Or why the quarians are always complaining about the temperature or lack of an air filter? Jewish. teehee.

[AaronBrudenell]

I'm surprised everyone is set on one nationality/culture as one reference for the Quarians.. They clearly represent immigrants/refugees. In the present day (and recent history) we have had alot of wars which have caused populations to leave their home. The middle-east (Iraq, Iran...ect), Eastern Europe (Bosnia) and of course the Jewish population from Poland in World War Two. It is simply subconsciously connecting your current knowledge of present to the idea of a hundred years in the future. That's why Mass Effect works. Mass Effect has been created by people of different faiths and nationalities.



Eden Prime is clearly a reference to the Garden of Eden.

The Quarian's idea of a Pilgrimage is a reference to Buddism.

Batarians references extremists and terror cells.

Cerberus is a reference to the numerous conspiracy theories (aka Area 51, Illuminati...ect)

The Council is the smaller version of the UN.

The Volus are Capitalist, whereas the Quarians are more Socialist.



And that's just a few! In order to get the wide array of cultures/races to seem believable they need some connection to the real world. And to get that accurately, they need a diverse team from difference faiths, nations, opinions and walks of life.



So yes, the probably is a Jewish writer at Bioware.



Did he/she single handed come up with Quarians? Probally not.

Did they help creating the culture and believability of them? Probally.

[deusofnull]

Obviously..
Only difference is that the Jews didnt make the ****s and the ****s arent robots...


To be honest, I agree and disagree.  I agree because of all the sublte refrences that are made to them and I disagree because of the obvious comparision of voice and accent.  There are only a few Quarians who seem to have Jewish accents, the rest being English or straight American.  Its odd, probably has to do with segregation on the ships in the flotilla or something like that.

[stethnorun]

You all realize that since this series borrows (I won't say steals) from basically all popular sci/fi...that Battlestar Galactica is a much better fit than any bible story. I mean, the quarian backstory is almost a direct copy of the pilot of BSG. The only difference is that quarians are alien looking and require suits. Now, BSG is heavily influenced by the jewish bible stories, but when talking about what inspired the bioware devs, it seems like BSG was more in their minds than the bible.

[PingoBlack]

AaronBrudenell wrote...
Batarians references extremists and terror cells.

And also ... they believe in the caste system, so it gets much more mixed up.

[AtreiyaN7]

Well, they had one entire star system filled with the names of prominent scientists. I don't remember all the names in that system, but there were Crick and Watson, Wallace and Darwin...plus the other two that I forget, but presumably those two planets were named after scientists/naturalists as well. I think they like throwing a lot of references in (vis a vis that system with planets named after Egyptian gods). However, it is particularly interesting to find out this information on Hebrew references in Quarian culture/names.



Yes, I hope it doesn't bring the wackos out though.

[NeoGuardian86]

can't help but feel the bit of Arab factor is being ignored.



but then again, i find Hebrew culture to be very similar to Arab ones regardless of ones political allegiances or POV.

[Colonel_Temp]

Honestly, I understand how everything new is likely influenced by that which has came before. But I prefer it when it's subtle and done in a way where you can't really notice the inspiration, blatently taking names like this just seems lazy on Biowares part in my opinion.