92 réponses à ce sujet

[Ambaryerno]

Well, my "Sword Mod" idea has quickly evolved into a much more expansive modification than I originally conceptualized, so I'm going to start a new thread. What follows are the initial set of changes I'm looking to make. This is subject to modification once I get a better idea of what weaponry already exists within the game.

Please note that as of the time of this posting I've decided against attempting to add polearms. Although I'd love to have them, poles will provide a number of challenges due to the sizes of the weapons in indoor environments as well as for cutscenes. Doesn't mean I won't take a shot at it, but it's not part of the initial plan UNLESS I can find help from someone with experience with animations/etc. (most of what I have here could probably be done with animations already present in the game if I really want to keep it simple).

Also bear in mind I've not even looked at ranged weaponry yet to see what to tweak yet. However you can certainly expect longbows to have VERY high Str and Dex requirements, but also some wicked range and penetration power to go with it.

On to the list:

Melee Weaponry (General)

1) Resize all one-handed weapons to more appropriate scaling
2) Rename all stock longswords as "arming sword" or some variation thereof to more accurately reflect the function of these weapons
3) Increase speeds both for greater realism and to increase the pace of combat (see specific sections).

Daggers (1H)

1) Speeds for daggers will be significantly increased
2) Increase piercing damage for all daggers
3) Dagger requirements based on Dex if possible (reflecting skill needed to wield effectively)

Arming Swords (1H)

1) Moderate speed increase
2) Requirements based on Dex if possible (reflecting skill needed to wield effectively)
3) Add small defense bonus (if possible only when used without shield) to reflect use of sword for parry
4) Make damage type cutting if possible

Falchions (1H)

1) Falchions shall be slower than arming swords in speed
2) Falchions shall be given superior cutting power, but no piercing ability
3) Make damage type cutting if possible

Axes (1H)

1) Axes will be slower than falchions
2) Axes shall have superior cutting power of all one-handed weapons, but no piercing ability
3) Axes shall receive a small bonus against armor
4) Make damage type cutting if possible
5) Add small crushing bonus if possible

Maces/Hammers (1H)

1) Remodel hammers if necessary (no big blocks on sticks)
2) Maces and hammers will be roughly the speed of falchions
3) Maces and hammers will be of moderate striking power, with no piercing ability (exceptions when applicable, IE flanged maces and picks)
4) Maces and hammers shall receive a high bonus against armor
5) Make damage type crushing if possible

Longswords (2H)

1) Longswords shall be added as an intermediate between arming swords and greatswords.
2) Longswords shall be roughly equivalent to falchions in speed
3) Longswords shall have equivalent power to axes (1H)
4) Requirements based on Dex if possible (reflecting skill needed to wield effectively)
5) Add small defense bonus to reflect use of sword for parry
6) Make damage type cutting if possible
7) Add new Talents

Longsword Talents

1) Longsword talents shall use Dex as
requirementRow I1) Pommel Strike (Active)  – As in two-handed weapons
2) Ringen (Active)  – The fighter closes in and throws the enemy to the ground
3) Hook (Active)  – The fighter uses the sword hilt to hook an enemy’s shield out of the way and makes a follow-on strike, ignoring shield defense bonus when determining the hit
4) Disarm (Active) – The fighter uses the sword hilt to disarm an enemy

Row II

1) Half-Sword (Sustained)  – The fighter grips with one hand on blade. Speed and piercing bonus at the cost of power for all standard attacks
2) Mordhau (Active) – The fighter grips the blade with both hands and wields it like a club, delivering crushing damage slightly less than a mace/hammer (1H) at cost of speed
3) Finishing Thrust (Active) – The fighter attempts to Ringen (see Row I). If successful, he will deliver a thrust
to his grounded enemy for a critical hit.
4) Harnischfechten (Passive)  – The fighter gains attack bonuses when fighting an opponent that wears heavy (IE plate) armor.

Row III

1) Doubling (Passive) –If an attack is defended by the enemy the fighter immediately attempts a second attack at
slightly reduced power
2) Slice (Active) – The fighter makes a draw cut on the opponent. If successful it will impose a movement penalty
3) Zornhau (Active) – The fighter makes a powerful falling vertical cut, inflicting greater damage. Cannot be executed while Half-Sword is active
4) Blossfechten (Passive)  – Fighter receives attack and defense bonuses when wielding a longsword while wearing light or no armor (leather/studded, or regular garments)

Greatswords (2H)

1) Shall be slower than axes (1H)
2) Shall have higher cutting power than axes (1H)
3) Add Dex requirement if possible (reflecting skill needed to wield effectively)
4) Shall have higher effectiveness against armor than axes (1H)
5) Add small defense bonus to reflect use of sword for parry
6) Make damage type cutting if possible

Axes (2H)

1) Shall be slower than greatswords
2) Shall have higher cutting power than greatswords, but no piercing
3) Shall have higher effectiveness against armor than greatswords
5) Make damage type cutting if possible
6) Add small crushing bonus if possible

Maces/Hammers (2H)

1) Remodel hammers for accuracy if necessary (no giant sledgehammers)
2) Shall be between Axes and Greatswords in speed
3) Higher striking power than greatswords, but less than axes. No piercing ability (exceptions when applicable)
4) Highest effectiveness against armor
5) Make damage type crushing if possible

Armor (General)

1) Fatigue for all armor types will be increased while strength requirements shall be lowered.
2) Armor shall be remodeled/textured as needed for appearance

Studded Leather

1) Fatigue reduced or outright eliminated
2) As possible damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – weak
Crushing – none
Piercing – weak

Mail

1) “Chain” shall be removed from the name
2) Moderate strength requirement
3) Moderately high fatigue
4) As possible, damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – moderate
Crushing – weak
Piercing – weak

Splint

1) Splint should be removed entirely for torso armor, retained only for arms and legs (per historical use)
2) As possible, damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – moderate
Crushing – weak
Piercing – moderate

Scale and Coat-of-Plates/Brigandine

1) Scale should be removed entirely for limb armor, retained only for torso (per historical use)
2) Moderate strength requirement
3) Moderate fatigue
4) As possible, should impose moderate Dex penalty (lack of flexibility)
5) As possible, damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – moderate
Crushing –moderately weak
Piercing – moderate

Plate

1) Low strength requirement – Although heavy, plate wears lighter than mail since it does not hang on the shoulders
2) High fatigue
3) As possible, should impose small Dex penalty (some lack of flexibility)
4) As possible, damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – strong
Crushing – moderate
Piercing – strong

Helms

1) Full-face helms (great helms, etc) shall have very high fatigue due to lack of airflow
2) As possible, helms will increase size of “flanking” zone depending on amount of view restriction

Shields (General)

1) If possible, add movement/speed penalty to shields larger than buckler
2) Increase defense bonus of shields

Modifié par Ambaryerno, 06 novembre 2009 - 05:32 .

[demicraftgod]

I am just curious, is it possible to have a left handed character? or it's embedded in the coding that the model only behaves in the fashion that right hand is the "main hand"...which then it would be too much to ask to get a left handed character. I mean...it's really a complain...that the character has certain preset traits...kind of take away some so-called "freedom" in developing your character...

[MMkain]

How about dual wielding sheilds?

[demicraftgod]

^^^

That could be interesting...but then it will be a very defensive player(like a tank that draws enemies attention)...and can only use shield skills...rather ineffective in combat...dual shields would require reworking the skill-sets...to balance the game out

[Ambaryerno]

demi,



I don't know, but I'm sure there's something that could be done.



MMkain,



I hope you're just being silly. :-P

[Vandrine]

*edit* triple post.  Oops!

Modifié par Vandrine, 11 novembre 2009 - 10:21 .

[Vandrine]

*edit* triple post.  Oops!

Modifié par Vandrine, 11 novembre 2009 - 10:22 .

[Vandrine]

Ok so the quick reply function is not working as this is my third attempt to post!

I'd be interested in seeing this simply for the rescaling.  The weapons look stupid.  A greatsword should not be 6 foot with a pommel the size of a grown man's forearm.

Also Ambaryerno, do you think you could put in a bastard sword as a cross class?  So equipped on it's on it's wielded two handed and with a shield or dagger it's done with one hand?

[Mjelnir]

This sounds Awesome The armor and weapon design to a certain degree are this game only weak piont. Very much looking forward to it.

[Ambaryerno]

Vandrine,
While the massive 10-15lb monstrosities were purely ceremonial, some functional two-handed swords actually COULD be 6ft tall with extremely long hilts. I think Grutte Pier was reputed to use a sword over 7ft long.

Just as an example:

My main complaint is the fact that we don't have anything BETWEEN the simple arming swords and the whoppin' HUGE bihanders.

I had been considering the bastard sword as a further intermediate between the arming and longswords that could be used both 1 or 2 handed, (similar to the longsword in NWN2) but that would add more complexity by needing to figure out how to get the stats (probably, more power and slightly faster wielded 2H vs. 1H) and Talents to change as appropriate (though obviously it IS possible since you can have both dual-weapon and shield talents).

I want to make sure I can get the longsword to work first, since those talents could be applied to a bastard sword wielded two-handed as well. I've also been toying with the idea of having the big two-handers use the same Talent set, since historically the same techniques with longsword (the Talents I created are all inspired by historical longsword fencing) were applied to the bihanders as well, and leave the existing two-handed Talents for the big 2H axes and hammers.

[adembroski11]

6 foot swords were used in combat, in a similar fashion to the Saxon huscarls wielded large axes... it was an anti-cavalry unit who operated in a sort of skirmish line while keeping the blade moving very fast at all times, making entering their threatened area suicide.

[Ambaryerno]

There's some debate over how exactly these big swords were used. I think the consensus is the famoyus notion they were used for breaking the heads off pikes is myth, as there was no contemporary reference to such a thing.



Incidentally, I've created a Project for the mod, so y'all feel free to check it out.



:-)

[NewYears1978]

Pretty cool ideas here..though I am more inclined to want the bad textures fixed well before I try any other mods.. but still you have a cool thing going here.

[Ambaryerno]

At least initially this is going to be more of a mechanics and gameplay tweak, with only a few modelling changes (primarily additions of the new weapon types, fixing the scaling, and doing away with the Whack-a-Mole mallets that somehow always find their way into RPGs in place of REAL warhammers). I DO reserve the right to expand it even further into a graphical update at a later date. ;-)

[WillyPete2171]

Ambaryerno wrote...

Well, my "Sword Mod" idea has quickly evolved into a much more expansive modification than I originally conceptualized, so I'm going to start a new thread. What follows are the initial set of changes I'm looking to make. This is subject to modification once I get a better idea of what weaponry already exists within the game.

Please note that as of the time of this posting I've decided against attempting to add polearms. Although I'd love to have them, poles will provide a number of challenges due to the sizes of the weapons in indoor environments as well as for cutscenes. Doesn't mean I won't take a shot at it, but it's not part of the initial plan UNLESS I can find help from someone with experience with animations/etc. (most of what I have here could probably be done with animations already present in the game if I really want to keep it simple).

Also bear in mind I've not even looked at ranged weaponry yet to see what to tweak yet. However you can certainly expect longbows to have VERY high Str and Dex requirements, but also some wicked range and penetration power to go with it.

On to the list:

Melee Weaponry (General)

1) Resize all one-handed weapons to more appropriate scaling
2) Rename all stock longswords as "arming sword" or some variation thereof to more accurately reflect the function of these weapons
3) Increase speeds both for greater realism and to increase the pace of combat (see specific sections).

Daggers (1H)

1) Speeds for daggers will be significantly increased
2) Increase piercing damage for all daggers
3) Dagger requirements based on Dex if possible (reflecting skill needed to wield effectively)

Arming Swords (1H)

1) Moderate speed increase
2) Requirements based on Dex if possible (reflecting skill needed to wield effectively)
3) Add small defense bonus (if possible only when used without shield) to reflect use of sword for parry
4) Make damage type cutting if possible

Falchions (1H)

1) Falchions shall be slower than arming swords in speed
2) Falchions shall be given superior cutting power, but no piercing ability
3) Make damage type cutting if possible

Axes (1H)

1) Axes will be slower than falchions
2) Axes shall have superior cutting power of all one-handed weapons, but no piercing ability
3) Axes shall receive a small bonus against armor
4) Make damage type cutting if possible
5) Add small crushing bonus if possible

Maces/Hammers (1H)

1) Remodel hammers if necessary (no big blocks on sticks)
2) Maces and hammers will be roughly the speed of falchions
3) Maces and hammers will be of moderate striking power, with no piercing ability (exceptions when applicable, IE flanged maces and picks)
4) Maces and hammers shall receive a high bonus against armor
5) Make damage type crushing if possible

Longswords (2H)

1) Longswords shall be added as an intermediate between arming swords and greatswords.
2) Longswords shall be roughly equivalent to falchions in speed
3) Longswords shall have equivalent power to axes (1H)
4) Requirements based on Dex if possible (reflecting skill needed to wield effectively)
5) Add small defense bonus to reflect use of sword for parry
6) Make damage type cutting if possible
7) Add new Talents

Longsword Talents

1) Longsword talents shall use Dex as
requirementRow I1) Pommel Strike (Active)  – As in two-handed weapons
2) Ringen (Active)  – The fighter closes in and throws the enemy to the ground
3) Hook (Active)  – The fighter uses the sword hilt to hook an enemy’s shield out of the way and makes a follow-on strike, ignoring shield defense bonus when determining the hit
4) Disarm (Active) – The fighter uses the sword hilt to disarm an enemy

Row II

1) Half-Sword (Sustained)  – The fighter grips with one hand on blade. Speed and piercing bonus at the cost of power for all standard attacks
2) Mordhau (Active) – The fighter grips the blade with both hands and wields it like a club, delivering crushing damage slightly less than a mace/hammer (1H) at cost of speed
3) Finishing Thrust (Active) – The fighter attempts to Ringen (see Row I). If successful, he will deliver a thrust
to his grounded enemy for a critical hit.
4) Harnischfechten (Passive)  – The fighter gains attack bonuses when fighting an opponent that wears heavy (IE plate) armor.

Row III

1) Doubling (Passive) –If an attack is defended by the enemy the fighter immediately attempts a second attack at
slightly reduced power
2) Slice (Active) – The fighter makes a draw cut on the opponent. If successful it will impose a movement penalty
3) Zornhau (Active) – The fighter makes a powerful falling vertical cut, inflicting greater damage. Cannot be executed while Half-Sword is active
4) Blossfechten (Passive)  – Fighter receives attack and defense bonuses when wielding a longsword while wearing light or no armor (leather/studded, or regular garments)

Greatswords (2H)

1) Shall be slower than axes (1H)
2) Shall have higher cutting power than axes (1H)
3) Add Dex requirement if possible (reflecting skill needed to wield effectively)
4) Shall have higher effectiveness against armor than axes (1H)
5) Add small defense bonus to reflect use of sword for parry
6) Make damage type cutting if possible

Axes (2H)

1) Shall be slower than greatswords
2) Shall have higher cutting power than greatswords, but no piercing
3) Shall have higher effectiveness against armor than greatswords
5) Make damage type cutting if possible
6) Add small crushing bonus if possible

Maces/Hammers (2H)

1) Remodel hammers for accuracy if necessary (no giant sledgehammers)
2) Shall be between Axes and Greatswords in speed
3) Higher striking power than greatswords, but less than axes. No piercing ability (exceptions when applicable)
4) Highest effectiveness against armor
5) Make damage type crushing if possible

Armor (General)

1) Fatigue for all armor types will be increased while strength requirements shall be lowered.
2) Armor shall be remodeled/textured as needed for appearance

Studded Leather

1) Fatigue reduced or outright eliminated
2) As possible damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – weak
Crushing – none
Piercing – weak

Mail

1) “Chain” shall be removed from the name
2) Moderate strength requirement
3) Moderately high fatigue
4) As possible, damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – moderate
Crushing – weak
Piercing – weak

Splint

1) Splint should be removed entirely for torso armor, retained only for arms and legs (per historical use)
2) As possible, damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – moderate
Crushing – weak
Piercing – moderate

Scale and Coat-of-Plates/Brigandine

1) Scale should be removed entirely for limb armor, retained only for torso (per historical use)
2) Moderate strength requirement
3) Moderate fatigue
4) As possible, should impose moderate Dex penalty (lack of flexibility)
5) As possible, damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – moderate
Crushing –moderately weak
Piercing – moderate

Plate

1) Low strength requirement – Although heavy, plate wears lighter than mail since it does not hang on the shoulders
2) High fatigue
3) As possible, should impose small Dex penalty (some lack of flexibility)
4) As possible, damage resistance shall be set as follows:

Cutting – strong
Crushing – moderate
Piercing – strong

Helms

1) Full-face helms (great helms, etc) shall have very high fatigue due to lack of airflow
2) As possible, helms will increase size of “flanking” zone depending on amount of view restriction

Shields (General)

1) If possible, add movement/speed penalty to shields larger than buckler
2) Increase defense bonus of shields

I think this is an excellent idea and look forward for it to come to fruition.  I feel another area that needs to be adressed is what I feel that all stats and levels seem to raise too quickly at the beggining of the game.  Maybe im too used to the D&D system, but I have characters that hit 21 strength and 18 dex before I even finish the origin story.  It just seems like its too much too fast.  Would it be game-breaking to slow things down?  Is it possible to mod this at all?

[Ambaryerno]

That's not something this mod looks to address as I won't be going much beyond tweaking the weapons and armor. Keep in mind though that as compared to D&D your stats are ALSO going to reach higher levels, anyway (some of the Talents require STR or DEX in the high-30s. I don't think I got CLOSE to that in NWN2, even with the Mask of the Betrayer expansion) so there's a different mechanic at work with stats.



Oh, and something to tease you all with:







This is the base model for the longsword, taken from my own practice sword (although mine is fullered without the ricasso). To give you an idea on scale, the blade is right about 40" long. This particular sword will be the Iron version. I'll need to look up some designs for the higher-tiered swords, though I do have one in mind based on a historical piece....

[WillyPete2171]

Ambaryerno wrote...

That's not something this mod looks to address as I won't be going much beyond tweaking the weapons and armor. Keep in mind though that as compared to D&D your stats are ALSO going to reach higher levels, anyway (some of the Talents require STR or DEX in the high-30s. I don't think I got CLOSE to that in NWN2, even with the Mask of the Betrayer expansion) so there's a different mechanic at work with stats.

Oh, and something to tease you all with:



This is the base model for the longsword, taken from my own practice sword (although mine is fullered without the ricasso). To give you an idea on scale, the blade is right about 40" long. This particular sword will be the Iron version. I'll need to look up some designs for the higher-tiered swords, though I do have one in mind based on a historical piece....

good stuff!  its nice to see someone this dedicated to a game i love.  well, the tool set is out!  Question, will there be a way to mod a specific swordmaship style to a particular weapon?  for example,would a sword like the one above be able to be assigned its own special slashing movements in game?  another question for you if you dont mind - is it possible to mod the pools of blood under a fresh kill to stay instead of dissapearing after a few seconds?  this takes away the game immersion for me...  thanks

[Zihlur]

It seems you have gotten further than I have, please let me know how it goes when implementing these into the core campaign (you saw that I 'tried' earlier, in my thread ). I would love to know how to add items or edit in game items, I'm not that great at modelling, more or less just want to edit what there already is.

[Ambaryerno]

You're asking the wrong guy for general modding questions, I'm pretty new here. Heck, I never even played the 3rd Party content for NWN2, just the two boxed expansions. I've also always been a modeler first, so a lot of this is new to me.



I AM planning to give the longsword its own Talent set, which I outlined in the OP, which are all drawn from the German school of swordsmanship. Some of them may require custom animations (half-sword almost certainly. The bright side is it could be a foundation for animating spears....) but obviously I'm more concerned right now with just making them actually WORK as intended. Animating can come later.

[The Wild Turkey]

Overall a good idea and a necessary mod in my opinion, although I would point out a couple of tweaks.



As far as I am aware, there was never anything called 'studded leather', that was a pure DnD invention when they mistook the rivets on brigandine armour for studs without realizing they were there to hold the metal plates in place.



Also, I see no need for a speed difference between arming and longswords other than as a pure game mechanic. I never noticed any difference in speed when I sparred with either. (In fact, I think the longsword might have been slightly faster, though that may have just been my perception)

[Ambaryerno]

One option would be to replace "studded" leather with cuir bouilli instead. Certainly, the in-game models seem to look more like a cuirass of hardened leather than they do the "classic" studded, anyway. Less work for me to just rename it. ;-)



After playing around with it, it looks like I may not have TOO much work as far as correcting the models go. Granted, I don't think the toolset shows ALL of each type of weapon (it seems to focus on "unique" and "magical" types, not the run-of-the-mill iron, gray iron, etc). It appears that all weapons appearances are drawn from a handful of "base" designs, although from the looks of things I suppose someone could easily craft completely unique models for each of the "named" weapons. Also, if I'm looking at it right, it should be REALLY easy to change whole category names and I won't need to INDIVIDUALLY rename every stock longsword as an "arming sword."



I need to know what I'm looking at, tho. So far not seeing anywhere that actually controls stats (at least, nothing obvious). It all looks like it's descriptive.



One concern I have with adding these extra weapons to the game, though, is will it be possible to have the new types (longswords, falchions, etc.) randomly available from merchants and loot? I'm positive that if I wanted to create UNIQUE items I'll need to specifically place them, but what about the common ones?

[LokiHades]

Ambaryerno wrote...
...Oh, and something to tease you all with...

This was what I pictured in my mind, keep up the awesome work!

[Oddball_E8]

i love the idea of this mod, but could i suggest some kind of quicky mod to resize the weapon models in the game first?

it just irks me to see the grotesquely sized weapons sometimes (especially the handles on swords and the extreme bows... not to mention the arrows that seem to be made out of a massive chunk of wood)

[Horace the Well Meaning Hybrid]

My recomendation (if it's at all possible) would be to the longsword 2h to either 2h or 1h with a shield. Change the speed to be faster as 1h but considerably less powerful. For 2h do the opposite. Course the 2h wouldn't be as strong as a greatword and 1h, not as fast as the arming swords.

[Ambaryerno]

Oddball,



I'm already considering breaking release up into stages. Resizing the 1H weapons shouldn't be too much of an issue if each type (daggers, axes, hammers, swords) only has a limited number of models, but I'd like to also have something of more substance in the initial release. I haven't had the chance to go in and really start messing with things yet, but I might do that and get the stock longswords renamed to Arming Swords first, since the latter is going to be important for adding the ACTUAL longswords later.



Horace,



As I said, if I do a sword that's both 1H and 2H it'll probably be as a bastard sword with the longsword as a strict 2H, which is somewhat more historical (there's VERY little 1H technique for longsword in the German school, mostly for grappling). However that's something for the future. I don't know where you get the longsword as faster 1H, though....