2439 réponses à ce sujet

[Driveninhifi]

JrayM16 wrote...

Oh the irony of that scene.  It does explain her motivation, but not how she became so cruel.  She says she didnt become Benezia, but she did.  You can tell.  Regardless of why she's doing the things she does, or to whatever end, she's ruthless and cruel.  She even quotes Benezia.  She's also hunting the SB soley for the the purpose of revenge, not for any other reason.  That's why I still feel she's gone evil, even after watching that vid.

And that's really the problem with her portrayal in game. It just doesn't make sense for her to become that cold. Revenge alone doesn't fit her character at all. She's the least cruel and aggressive character in ME1. Even the comics get this wrong. You read any review/preview of the comic and that's the first thing they mention. "Liara doesn't act like Liara."
It's nearly unbelievable she'd become that way by choice - even seeing her mom brainwashed and killed doesn't do it. She doesn't just want to kill Saren to avenge her mother, she also wants to do it to save the galaxy. 
There needs to be more development of her, she needs more motivation. Maybe an indication that she really doesn't know what else to do other than quote Benezia. She's not good at intimidating people, but she knows what works. Something to make it obvious that this is an act she's had to put on for her own survival. I really she has to be forced into it; it doesn't make sense for her to dive headlong into revenge.

[Deamon023]

JrayM16 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

I dont know. Liara was kind of crazy in ME2. I stopped doing ehr quest chain cause it seemed she'd completely lost it and became obsessed w/ finding the Shadow Broker. She also became renegade to a disgusting degree, willing to kill 5 people cause she knew one of them ahd to be her target. In ME3, I want the ability to put her down.

Feel guilty now?

Oh the irony of that scene.  It does explain her motivation, but not how she became so cruel.  She says she didnt become Benezia, but she did.  You can tell.  Regardless of why she's doing the things she does, or to whatever end, she's ruthless and cruel.  She even quotes Benezia.  She's also hunting the SB soley for the the purpose of revenge, not for any other reason.  That's why I still feel she's gone evil, even after watching that vid.

Shep can go the evil tour (renegade) for less reasons, no species was safe from my Shep but Liara didn't romance him less

[JrayM16]

Basically BW skipped a crucial step in Liara's character developement. I thought it might be in the comic but even at the comic's start she's pretty cold.

[Nozybidaj]

MoSa09 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Wanna speculate on how she'd join the squad in ME3?

For me, I think that after you acquire the standard starting human male and female starting squadmates, I think that you'll be contacted by Liara pretty early in ME3. She'll reveal that she's had a massive breakthrough in her hunt for the Shadow Broker, and reveal his alliance with the Collectors and by extension the Reapers. Eradicating the Shadow Broker with Liara will be the first major goal in ME3, and once he has been disposed of Liara is free to join your squad and fight alongside/continue the relationship with you.

Well, seeing how they handled it in ME 3, i would bet the opposite. You might meet her relatively early, but it would still be unclear where you both stand, and only close to the final will the real background revealed and she is free and her barries broken and you can restart the relationship. As so many people want proper closure with their old romances and this will be a massive hook point for the game, i believe they won't use it before close to the climax

That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

[Nozybidaj]

JrayM16 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

I dont know. Liara was kind of crazy in ME2. I stopped doing ehr quest chain cause it seemed she'd completely lost it and became obsessed w/ finding the Shadow Broker. She also became renegade to a disgusting degree, willing to kill 5 people cause she knew one of them ahd to be her target. In ME3, I want the ability to put her down.

Feel guilty now?

Oh the irony of that scene.  It does explain her motivation, but not how she became so cruel.  She says she didnt become Benezia, but she did.  You can tell.  Regardless of why she's doing the things she does, or to whatever end, she's ruthless and cruel.  She even quotes Benezia.  She's also hunting the SB soley for the the purpose of revenge, not for any other reason.  That's why I still feel she's gone evil, even after watching that vid.

I'm just going to chalk it up to terrible writing till we see where they go with the character after the comic is over.

[Mox Ruuga]

Nozybidaj wrote...


That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

Well, it would forever ruin Liara and her romance with Shepard. After the GrimDarkification she went through in the comic and ME2, the writers are already treading on thin ice.

[Nozybidaj]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...


That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

Well, it would forever ruin Liara and her romance with Shepard. After the GrimDarkification she went through in the comic and ME2, the writers are already treading on thin ice.

Agreed, of all the characters they could have set out to ruin I can't imagine why they picked Liara.

[Deamon023]

This cute blue godess can never be evil 


 

[JrayM16]

Nozybidaj wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Wanna speculate on how she'd join the squad in ME3?

For me, I think that after you acquire the standard starting human male and female starting squadmates, I think that you'll be contacted by Liara pretty early in ME3. She'll reveal that she's had a massive breakthrough in her hunt for the Shadow Broker, and reveal his alliance with the Collectors and by extension the Reapers. Eradicating the Shadow Broker with Liara will be the first major goal in ME3, and once he has been disposed of Liara is free to join your squad and fight alongside/continue the relationship with you.

Well, seeing how they handled it in ME 3, i would bet the opposite. You might meet her relatively early, but it would still be unclear where you both stand, and only close to the final will the real background revealed and she is free and her barries broken and you can restart the relationship. As so many people want proper closure with their old romances and this will be a massive hook point for the game, i believe they won't use it before close to the climax

That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

Wait, is the Liara dlc thing real or just specualtion?  Cause I've heard rumors, but I dont know.

[Nozybidaj]

Deamon023 wrote...

This cute blue godess can never be evil 


 

Pictures like this make me hate ME2 even more.

[Nozybidaj]

JrayM16 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Wanna speculate on how she'd join the squad in ME3?

For me, I think that after you acquire the standard starting human male and female starting squadmates, I think that you'll be contacted by Liara pretty early in ME3. She'll reveal that she's had a massive breakthrough in her hunt for the Shadow Broker, and reveal his alliance with the Collectors and by extension the Reapers. Eradicating the Shadow Broker with Liara will be the first major goal in ME3, and once he has been disposed of Liara is free to join your squad and fight alongside/continue the relationship with you.

Well, seeing how they handled it in ME 3, i would bet the opposite. You might meet her relatively early, but it would still be unclear where you both stand, and only close to the final will the real background revealed and she is free and her barries broken and you can restart the relationship. As so many people want proper closure with their old romances and this will be a massive hook point for the game, i believe they won't use it before close to the climax

That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

Wait, is the Liara dlc thing real or just specualtion?  Cause I've heard rumors, but I dont know.

Rumor, with strong hints from BW.

[MoSa09]

Nozybidaj wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Wanna speculate on how she'd join the squad in ME3?

For me, I think that after you acquire the standard starting human male and female starting squadmates, I think that you'll be contacted by Liara pretty early in ME3. She'll reveal that she's had a massive breakthrough in her hunt for the Shadow Broker, and reveal his alliance with the Collectors and by extension the Reapers. Eradicating the Shadow Broker with Liara will be the first major goal in ME3, and once he has been disposed of Liara is free to join your squad and fight alongside/continue the relationship with you.

Well, seeing how they handled it in ME 3, i would bet the opposite. You might meet her relatively early, but it would still be unclear where you both stand, and only close to the final will the real background revealed and she is free and her barries broken and you can restart the relationship. As so many people want proper closure with their old romances and this will be a massive hook point for the game, i believe they won't use it before close to the climax

That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

hey, don't get me wrong, what i wrote i believe is absolutely not what i hope. I hope they solve this earlier, through the Liara dlc that seems possible. Hell, i even expected ME 2 would acknowledge the old romances a bit more. I never expected them fully integrated, but after they claimed the game would acknowledge your old relationships, i expected a bit more than a pic on your desc and a meeting like "Here she is, you have seen her, now move on".
I love BioWare and their games and they deserve some faith and my credit, but after all that noise and fuss they made about reappearance of the old romances for THAT...

Modifié par MoSa09, 08 février 2010 - 10:46 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Agreed, of all the characters they could have set out to ruin I can't imagine why they picked Liara.

Perhaps they tried to push her to becoming likeable for the people who never warmed up to her? Making her more "dark" and "edgy", instead of building on her established character, they seem to have rewritten it.

The sad end result: the people who never liked her are still meh, and most of the people who did are puzzled or angry.

Or they could have just cynically wrecked her to push up the new ME2 LIs. Out with the old, in with the new.

[JrayM16]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Deamon023 wrote...

This cute blue godess can never be evil 


 

Pictures like this make me hate ME2 even more.

Why you gotta hate man?

[Mox Ruuga]

Deamon023 wrote...

This cute blue godess can never be evil 


 

Makes me want to start a new ME1 playthrough, seeing this... You know what, I think I will. A sentinel at that, I haven't played one of those in ME2 yet.

[JrayM16]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Agreed, of all the characters they could have set out to ruin I can't imagine why they picked Liara.

Perhaps they tried to push her to becoming likeable for the people who never warmed up to her? Making her more "dark" and "edgy", instead of building on her established character, they seem to have rewritten it.

The sad end result: the people who never liked her are still meh, and most of the people who did are puzzled or angry.

Or they could have just cynically wrecked her to push up the new ME2 LIs. Out with the old, in with the new.

yeah, I wanted them to evolve her a bit but they definetely went too far.  If they'd had more reason for the change I would have accpeted it but...sigh.

[Driveninhifi]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Evil? Ruthless and cruel? I thought it was fairly obvious that it's nothing more than a facade as a coping mechanism. What you've got to remember is that Liara has had a seriously rough couple of years.

And it's not like she kills all of the Shadow Broker's agents, just the one that is an IMMEDIATE THREAT to her. If she were ruthless and cruel, she'd be murdering kids and burning down houses.

As for becoming Benezia, no. I think the repeat of Benezia's line was more awkward than anything. She struggles to appear threatening herself, so has to copy her mother. And she is acting of her own free will, she knows not to become just like the Shadow Broker. She is fully aware of everything she is doing, and knows not to go too far.

I agree with everything you're saying (it's the only thing that makes sense) and I really like taking the character there. It needs to be more obvious - you need more in-depth conversation options. Something like her quickly confiding how hard this all is for her, etc.

She is totally willing to kill all 5 suspects pretty quickly. That seems extreme.
There's stuff in the comics that's off too, such as her killing a batarian and making an arnold-esque quip (in #2). That's not true to her character. So it's kind of ambiguous, though I agree it makes a whole lot more sense for it to be an act.

[Nozybidaj]

MoSa09 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Wanna speculate on how she'd join the squad in ME3?

For me, I think that after you acquire the standard starting human male and female starting squadmates, I think that you'll be contacted by Liara pretty early in ME3. She'll reveal that she's had a massive breakthrough in her hunt for the Shadow Broker, and reveal his alliance with the Collectors and by extension the Reapers. Eradicating the Shadow Broker with Liara will be the first major goal in ME3, and once he has been disposed of Liara is free to join your squad and fight alongside/continue the relationship with you.

Well, seeing how they handled it in ME 3, i would bet the opposite. You might meet her relatively early, but it would still be unclear where you both stand, and only close to the final will the real background revealed and she is free and her barries broken and you can restart the relationship. As so many people want proper closure with their old romances and this will be a massive hook point for the game, i believe they won't use it before close to the climax

That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

hey, don't get me wrong, what i wrote i believe is absolutely not what i hope. I hope they solve this earlier, through the Liara dlc that seems possible. Hell, i even expected ME 2 would acknowledge the old romances a bit more. I never expected them fully integrated, but after they claimed the game would acknowledge your old relationships, i expected a bit more than a pic on your desc and a meeting like "Here she is, you have seen her, now move on".
I love BioWare and their games and they deserve some faith and my credit, but after all that noise and fuss they made about reappearance of the old romances for THAT...

I can not argue with your logic good sir.  I suppose it is up to BW to prove they can pick the ball back up and run with it at this point.

[Deamon023]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Deamon023 wrote...

This cute blue godess can never be evil 


 

Pictures like this make me hate ME2 even more.

I don't believe BW will let the fans in the cold when it comes to Liara, and I refuse to believe she's not going to play a big role in the near future, and by the godess they better do before my shep lets  Jack lose in the BW offices or a band Krogan mercs

[Nozybidaj]

Driveninhifi wrote...

I agree with everything you're saying (it's the only thing that makes sense) and I really like taking the character there. It needs to be more obvious - you need more in-depth conversation options. Something like her quickly confiding how hard this all is for her, etc.

She is totally willing to kill all 5 suspects pretty quickly. That seems extreme.
There's stuff in the comics that's off too, such as her killing a batarian and making an arnold-esque quip (in #2). That's not true to her character. So it's kind of ambiguous, though I agree it makes a whole lot more sense for it to be an act.

I think it is more just poor writing with the writer constanly being yelled at to "amp it up" and "not dark enough".  The characer in the comics and in ME2 isn't even recognizable as the same character from ME1.  I don't consider retcons to be character development.  I am hopeful that once they get all this "dark and amped up" bull out of their systems they'll reel it back in and we get a believable representation of Liara again.

[Daeion]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...


That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

Well, it would forever ruin Liara and her romance with Shepard. After the GrimDarkification she went through in the comic and ME2, the writers are already treading on thin ice.

Agreed, of all the characters they could have set out to ruin I can't imagine why they picked Liara.

Because she was the only one they knew for sure would carry over from ME that wouldn't be on your team

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...


That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

Well, it would forever ruin Liara and her romance with Shepard. After the GrimDarkification she went through in the comic and ME2, the writers are already treading on thin ice.

Agreed, of all the characters they could have set out to ruin I can't imagine why they picked Liara.

Because she was the only one they knew for sure would carry over from ME that wouldn't be on your team

Good point.

[MoSa09]

Nozybidaj wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Wanna speculate on how she'd join the squad in ME3?

For me, I think that after you acquire the standard starting human male and female starting squadmates, I think that you'll be contacted by Liara pretty early in ME3. She'll reveal that she's had a massive breakthrough in her hunt for the Shadow Broker, and reveal his alliance with the Collectors and by extension the Reapers. Eradicating the Shadow Broker with Liara will be the first major goal in ME3, and once he has been disposed of Liara is free to join your squad and fight alongside/continue the relationship with you.

Well, seeing how they handled it in ME 3, i would bet the opposite. You might meet her relatively early, but it would still be unclear where you both stand, and only close to the final will the real background revealed and she is free and her barries broken and you can restart the relationship. As so many people want proper closure with their old romances and this will be a massive hook point for the game, i believe they won't use it before close to the climax

That would about ruin ME3 for me.  I don't want to have to spend the entire game just to get our relationship back to the same point is was prior to the end of ME1.  That would be a monumental waste.  I'm hopeful everything you have said is cleared up b the end of the Liara DLC.

hey, don't get me wrong, what i wrote i believe is absolutely not what i hope. I hope they solve this earlier, through the Liara dlc that seems possible. Hell, i even expected ME 2 would acknowledge the old romances a bit more. I never expected them fully integrated, but after they claimed the game would acknowledge your old relationships, i expected a bit more than a pic on your desc and a meeting like "Here she is, you have seen her, now move on".
I love BioWare and their games and they deserve some faith and my credit, but after all that noise and fuss they made about reappearance of the old romances for THAT...

I can not argue with your logic good sir.  I suppose it is up to BW to prove they can pick the ball back up and run with it at this point.

indeed. I mean, it's their intellectual property, they can do with it whatever they like. If they want to scrap all old comrades for ME 3, it's a free world, they can do that, as it's my freedom to not buy it if i don't like the idea.
But then be honest, don't give lengthy interviews about reappearance of old romances that will carry over and stuff. Just tell the truth: you will see a glimpse of your old LI's, but not very much. You won't have any kind of relationship going, but you can stay true to your LI and continue in ME 3 (assuming that part of the promise will be kept).
Cause that's the truth, and not what they told in length pre release about carry over.
As i said, it's their own property, and they can with it whatever they like, but then give people the truth and no cover up stories or half truths about what to expect.
The anger expressed on these and other boards here would not even be half a s big as it is now if people would have known what to expect from the start

[Sharn01]

I think its because they wanted to force the romance's from ME2 so they intentionally ruined the ME1 character's, Liara just got hit the hardest.



I mean, I could not even talk to Jacob with out my Shep practicly drooling all over him. I went over to talk to the guy, wanted to know if I could trust him and planned to be professional and avoid romance, instead I get forced flirting where Shep looked like she was ready to just tell him take me now you stallion, it pissed me off and I never talked to him again outside of the loyalty mission and ship upgrade.