2439 réponses à ce sujet

[Daeion]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Or they could have just cynically wrecked her to push up the new ME2 LIs. Out with the old, in with the new.

I'm going to go with this.

[Daeion]

Sharn01 wrote...

I think its because they wanted to force the romance's from ME2 so they intentionally ruined the ME1 character's, Liara just got hit the hardest.

I mean, I could not even talk to Jacob with out my Shep practicly drooling all over him. I went over to talk to the guy, wanted to know if I could trust him and planned to be professional and avoid romance, instead I get forced flirting where Shep looked like she was ready to just tell him take me now you stallion, it pissed me off and I never talked to him again outside of the loyalty mission and ship upgrade.

I know...the way my shep always leaned back and said she was "more interested in talking" made me want to vomit every time.

[DigitalMaster37]

Here's a present

[MoSa09]

Sharn01 wrote...

I think its because they wanted to force the romance's from ME2 so they intentionally ruined the ME1 character's, Liara just got hit the hardest.

I mean, I could not even talk to Jacob with out my Shep practicly drooling all over him. I went over to talk to the guy, wanted to know if I could trust him and planned to be professional and avoid romance, instead I get forced flirting where Shep looked like she was ready to just tell him take me now you stallion, it pissed me off and I never talked to him again outside of the loyalty mission and ship upgrade.

I know that feeling, there are many comrades you can hardly talk to cause nearly everything you say end up in a romance dialogue, and fem Shep with Jacob is one of them. Her voice suddenly get's extremly flirty, i half expected she would hump him in the next instant, while i was still in the "I don't even know you, Cerberus guy, let's find out if i can trust you" phase

[Driveninhifi]

Well, I think they get her half right in the comics. She's still shown as somewhat naive and I think it's reasonable to assume she would defend herself if attacked. She's also really mad at Feron for most of the comics thus far. She shouldn't be a doormat.
What they get wrong is that she really shouldn't ever be the aggressor - and there are a couple situations where she is and it doesn't fit at all (see my earlier comment about comic #2). She should be determined, but she is a kind and thoughtful character at her core. That's really what was appealing about her and it feels like the writers kind of lost that.
The solutions to most of these complaints really aren't that complicated - which makes me wonder why they didn't implement them into the game. That makes me think it was left this way on purpose (to keep the player in dark, essentially) and that's even more troubling. Withholding stuff from the player in that way doesn't build suspense or wonder - it's just frustrating.
That's the trouble with an interactive medium - there are certainly things the player may not know. But the writers really shouldn't limit what the player can ask, as long as it makes logical sense. There are many, many questions you need to be able to ask Liara. (Dragon Age also suffered from this during its endgame.) It's a hard overall problem to solve, sure. You can't provide EVERY possibility. But Bioware constantly touts its superior storytelling so these are valid criticisms to make.

As it stands, it feels like a very clumsy attempt to push the player towards the new love interests.

Modifié par Driveninhifi, 08 février 2010 - 11:11 .

[JrayM16]

I read the first issue of the comic that came w/ the CE. Didn't enjoy it. Gave up.

[speedy111280]

jlb524 wrote...

speedy111280 wrote...

I can't help but compare Liara to Gabrielle. There are some very similar character traits between the two, especially the moments where they are unintentionally funny (i.e. Liara trying to admit her interest and drugged Gabrielle). I see so many similarities that I can't help but think Bioware is setting her up to be the second "hero". Going through what she does to get Shepard's body back, helping kill her own mother, figuring out that they need to go to Ilos and wanting to take down the Shadow Broker are all pretty big story elements. Everyone else's issues/plots are secondary and unrelated to Shepard. Seriously, for me it's like Shep is Xena and Liara is Gabrielle.

Hmmm...maybe this is why I  Liara so much.  I've had a crush on Gabrielle since...forever.

And my Shepard is totally Xena....without the cool leather outfit

There are a lot of thematic similarities between Xena and Mass Effect.

[Deamon023]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Here's a present

oooh 

[speedy111280]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Still, I don't think my scenario will happen. It will be just some mission Liara sends us to do. Probably to extract the desert lizard "friend" she cares so much about. Who will then stay by her side, as her new "assistant", while poor Shepard, unwanted and unloved, goes to risk his/her neck against the Collectors and their masters.

I don't think they'd do that, as it'd have misleading implications about the relationship between Liara and Feron. It'd ****** of alot of the people who romanced Liara in the original game.

I agree. I seriously doubt they'd have Liara have a relationship with Feron. They've done a pretty good job of showing that Liara is in love with Shepard whether Shepard returns those feelings or not. Knowing Liara as we do, does anyone really think it's probable that the woman who had/has never been with anyone (and is so socially inept) would all of a sudden after a very short acquiantance with Feron would start a relationship with him especially as she gives every appearance of being in love with Shepard.

[speedy111280]

Sharn01 wrote...

I think its because they wanted to force the romance's from ME2 so they intentionally ruined the ME1 character's, Liara just got hit the hardest.

I mean, I could not even talk to Jacob with out my Shep practicly drooling all over him. I went over to talk to the guy, wanted to know if I could trust him and planned to be professional and avoid romance, instead I get forced flirting where Shep looked like she was ready to just tell him take me now you stallion, it pissed me off and I never talked to him again outside of the loyalty mission and ship upgrade.

I agree. I avoided talking to any of the ME2 LI's for fem!Shep because she went into automatic flirt mode.  I hate that my head over heels in love Shepard is forced to flirt with anything male. Although I did enjoy a lot of the Asari flirting with my Shep. I did want to ask Shiala if she really thought it was a smart idea to hit on my Shep when she was happily partnered up with up with her former mentor's daughter, especially as said daughter is threatening people left and right.

[StolenThunder]

speedy111280 wrote...

I agree. I seriously doubt they'd have Liara have a relationship with Feron. They've done a pretty good job of showing that Liara is in love with Shepard whether Shepard returns those feelings or not. Knowing Liara as we do, does anyone really think it's probable that the woman who had/has never been with anyone (and is so socially inept) would all of a sudden after a very short acquiantance with Feron would start a relationship with him especially as she gives every appearance of being in love with Shepard.

Judging by how it's going in the comic, Liara is so wrapped up in her feelings with Shepard that Feron seems like he's more of an annoyance and a hindrance than a friend. He's trying to be all buddy-buddy with her though, at least in my opinon. Liara has some funny desperate lines, though.

[Nayt Navare]

Prioris wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
For example, if you cheated on Liara in 2 but reconciled in 3, it ends with Shepard and Liara merely holding hands or kissing. If, however, you've been faithful to her since ME1, then maybe we'll get a special and emotional epilogue in which you see Liara and Shepard marry at the end, and/or perhaps Liara will have pregnancy bump. It'll be amazingly emotional and sweet if it were like that, IMO.

I would love this, this makes for a great final. That would make an appropriate and rewarding conclusion to their story. Sadly they both can't have babies, the Asari inter species mating doesn't seem to work in reverse, so my fem Shep would probably be the only female human throughout the whole galaxy who is the FATHER of a baby.

But i truly hope they implement the option of marrying your LI (no idea if marriage is known to the Asari culture, i only know the Salarians don't) and have a baby together.

+1 to this option.  (Then again, I'm terribly biased in that regard... ) 

I could also see a "five years later" epilogue where you see the Normandy flying into the Citadel, with Shep on his/her way home from a mission.  If you qualified for the best romance ending (stayed faithful in ME2, reaffirmed in DLC and/or ME3), you're greeted by Liara and their daughter at the dock.  Tear Jerker and Crowning Moment of Heartwarming all in one.

Boom! Heartshot!


Give this post a cookie

[Nozybidaj]

Sharn01 wrote...

I think its because they wanted to force the romance's from ME2 so they intentionally ruined the ME1 character's, Liara just got hit the hardest.

I mean, I could not even talk to Jacob with out my Shep practicly drooling all over him. I went over to talk to the guy, wanted to know if I could trust him and planned to be professional and avoid romance, instead I get forced flirting where Shep looked like she was ready to just tell him take me now you stallion, it pissed me off and I never talked to him again outside of the loyalty mission and ship upgrade.

Same here, my FemShep doesn't even go into the armory.

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Or they could have just cynically wrecked her to push up the new ME2 LIs. Out with the old, in with the new.

I'm going to go with this.

Me too.

[Nozybidaj]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Well, I think they get her half right in the comics. She's still shown as somewhat naive and I think it's reasonable to assume she would defend herself if attacked. She's also really mad at Feron for most of the comics thus far. She shouldn't be a doormat.
What they get wrong is that she really shouldn't ever be the aggressor - and there are a couple situations where she is and it doesn't fit at all (see my earlier comment about comic #2). She should be determined, but she is a kind and thoughtful character at her core. That's really what was appealing about her and it feels like the writers kind of lost that.
The solutions to most of these complaints really aren't that complicated - which makes me wonder why they didn't implement them into the game. That makes me think it was left this way on purpose (to keep the player in dark, essentially) and that's even more troubling. Withholding stuff from the player in that way doesn't build suspense or wonder - it's just frustrating.
That's the trouble with an interactive medium - there are certainly things the player may not know. But the writers really shouldn't limit what the player can ask, as long as it makes logical sense. There are many, many questions you need to be able to ask Liara. (Dragon Age also suffered from this during its endgame.) It's a hard overall problem to solve, sure. You can't provide EVERY possibility. But Bioware constantly touts its superior storytelling so these are valid criticisms to make.

As it stands, it feels like a very clumsy attempt to push the player towards the new love interests.

Completely agree.  As much as BW touts its story telling ability is should hit home doubly hard that players being engaged here not by the in game characters or the story but by the writers and their chosen direction of the character.  This could be rectified if they bring out some amazing Liara DLC though.

[Nozybidaj]

speedy111280 wrote...

I agree. I seriously doubt they'd have Liara have a relationship with Feron. They've done a pretty good job of showing that Liara is in love with Shepard whether Shepard returns those feelings or not. Knowing Liara as we do, does anyone really think it's probable that the woman who had/has never been with anyone (and is so socially inept) would all of a sudden after a very short acquiantance with Feron would start a relationship with him especially as she gives every appearance of being in love with Shepard.

No, I don't think it would be believable, that is why I would be worried they are going to do it, for simple shock value like most of the way Liara has been written in ME2.

[Driveninhifi]

Why would Liara wait at home for Shep? Wouldn't she be out saving the galaxy with him/her? They could bring the daughter along leave her on the ship with Mordin watching her. Maybe that's actually not a good idea.....



It begs an interesting question though: what does Liara do when Shepard dies of old age? Become a Justicar? I'm not sure it fits her character to love someone else, plus who can compare to the person that saved all life in the galaxy? She'd definitely be downgrading.



There could definitely be very emotional scenes with Liara and Shep getting back together in ME3. I do feel like it makes more sense to happen sooner rather than later, as well.

[MoSa09]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Why would Liara wait at home for Shep? Wouldn't she be out saving the galaxy with him/her? They could bring the daughter along leave her on the ship with Mordin watching her. Maybe that's actually not a good idea.....
.

Oh boy, of all possible babysitters, Mordin's the worst i can imagine. Even if my daughter could then sing Gilbert & Sullivan at the age of 5 like a pro

[Corti78]

MoSa09 wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

Why would Liara wait at home for Shep? Wouldn't she be out saving the galaxy with him/her? They could bring the daughter along leave her on the ship with Mordin watching her. Maybe that's actually not a good idea.....
.

Oh boy, of all possible babysitters, Mordin's the worst i can imagine. Even if my daughter could then sing Gilbert & Sullivan at the age of 5 like a pro

I'd let Mordin babysit just so she could sing Gilbert and Sullivan. I'd love to see Liara's reaction if their daughter suddenly just started singing it out of nowhere. She'd be confused as hell but I'd guarantee Shepard would be laughing his/her ass off.

[speedy111280]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Why would Liara wait at home for Shep? Wouldn't she be out saving the galaxy with him/her? They could bring the daughter along leave her on the ship with Mordin watching her. Maybe that's actually not a good idea.....

It begs an interesting question though: what does Liara do when Shepard dies of old age? Become a Justicar? I'm not sure it fits her character to love someone else, plus who can compare to the person that saved all life in the galaxy? She'd definitely be downgrading.

There could definitely be very emotional scenes with Liara and Shep getting back together in ME3. I do feel like it makes more sense to happen sooner rather than later, as well.

I don't think Liara would move on with someone else, even though Shepard would would want her to, she's far too loyal for that and I think she'd view it as being disloyal. If Liara and Shepard had a child she would spend all her time teaching her child and making sure the child remembers Shepard. With who her mother was and who she'd been involved with I can picture Liara having enough political clout to be a very influential figure even if it would be reluctantly.

[MoSa09]

Corti78 wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

Why would Liara wait at home for Shep? Wouldn't she be out saving the galaxy with him/her? They could bring the daughter along leave her on the ship with Mordin watching her. Maybe that's actually not a good idea.....
.

Oh boy, of all possible babysitters, Mordin's the worst i can imagine. Even if my daughter could then sing Gilbert & Sullivan at the age of 5 like a pro

I'd let Mordin babysit just so she could sing Gilbert and Sullivan. I'd love to see Liara's reaction if their daughter suddenly just started singing it out of nowhere. She'd be confused as hell but I'd guarantee Shepard would be laughing his/her ass off.

yeah, but the downside is that your daughters would be hyperactive, nervous, continuously gabbling children that would drive their parents mad within weeks

[Driveninhifi]

I don't think it even matters who her mother was. I mean, resurrecting Shep, killing the Shadow Broker, saving the galaxy, being Shep's mate - that's quite a resume. She would have to be greatly respected by everyone so I'd think she would have quite a bit of clout no matter her heritage (which isn't good by asari standards since she's a pureblood).



Something the matriarch said on Illium (about the asari being stagnant or not diverse enough) made me the Asari would want Liara to have a bunch of kids with Shepard to get his/her genes into the Asari bloodline.



They could also have Liara and Shep just disappear together after their daughter is grown. Or Mordin can find some way to extend a human's lifespan via genetic alteration. Miranda does say her modifications mean she'll live longer. Probably not an asari's lifespan, but another hundred years isn't too bad!



Future content involving their daughter, or playing as her would be interesting. Unfortunately it doesn't work for all possible playthroughs, but I think a character that is the daughter of the two would be very interesting to explore.

[Driveninhifi]

I am the very model of a half-human a-sar-i

My parents went through some hard times but then they saved the gal-ax-y



Mordin, what have you done!

[Nozybidaj]

Driveninhifi wrote...

They could also have Liara and Shep just disappear together after their daughter is grown. Or Mordin can find some way to extend a human's lifespan via genetic alteration. .

Shepard is a zombie cyborg now, who knows how long he could possibly live.  Hell his metal skeleton and electronic brain and nervous system might outlive Liara.