2439 réponses à ce sujet

[Mox Ruuga]

Sharn01 wrote...

Ah Mox, dont take it out on Tali and Garrus, throw Jacob and Miranda to the sharks to appease your anger.

At the very least save Garrus, who else besides Liara if she is a squaddie can you trust to have your back in ME3?

Nope, sorry! I like Miranda better than either G or (especially) T!

Jacob... yeah, he's no Kaidan replacement. Tolerable, but expendable.

Still, I see no reason for Garrus and Tali to get more episodes in my squad than Liara, Kaidan, Ash, and Wrex. Two games for each is enough.

[Nozybidaj]

Midnight Reyn wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

1) They express their feelings for you and you can express your feelings for them to Kelly.

As an Ash fan, I was so happy when my shep was able to tell Kelly how much Ash meant to him.

That all changed, however, when I started up a ME1 Single Import Shep, and the dialogue with Kelly was exactly the same even though my Shep hadn't romanced Ash. You can say the exact same thing to Kelly and admit Ash is a special woman even though you haven't romanced her.

Since I know the option to tell Kelly about Ash is exactly the same whether your romanced Ash or not, it's now lost some of its allure. It's nice to have and I'm glad it was included, but since single sheps who didn't romance Ash can say word for word the same thing, it doesn't mean much.

Here's a real kicker, even if I romance Liara Kelly still asks me about Ashley.

[RudaOne]

Yeah, she asked me about Kaiden... Couldn't really deny it without being an ass, so "Kaiden's a special guy".

[WilliamShatner]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Midnight Reyn wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

1) They express their feelings for you and you can express your feelings for them to Kelly.

As an Ash fan, I was so happy when my shep was able to tell Kelly how much Ash meant to him.

That all changed, however, when I started up a ME1 Single Import Shep, and the dialogue with Kelly was exactly the same even though my Shep hadn't romanced Ash. You can say the exact same thing to Kelly and admit Ash is a special woman even though you haven't romanced her.

Since I know the option to tell Kelly about Ash is exactly the same whether your romanced Ash or not, it's now lost some of its allure. It's nice to have and I'm glad it was included, but since single sheps who didn't romance Ash can say word for word the same thing, it doesn't mean much.

Here's a real kicker, even if I romance Liara Kelly still asks me about Ashley.

Yep.  And when she ask me about Kaidan I didn't know how to answer.  Would she take it that I had a romance with him or that we were just friends.  So I just picked the neutral option of "It was just a mission," which if BioWare are reading it would make it out that I didn't like the guy at all or something.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I have 13 finished ME1 characters and I am close to finish a 14th. It was my intention to romance Ashley with that character, but she she really isn't my type. So, instead this character will cancel that romance and will be single until ME3.

So, who were the LIs of the other 13 Shepards? Erm... Liara. I think I can consider myself a Liara fan.

I am planning just 3 characters for ME3. One that loves Liara like there is no tomorrow. One that that is disappointed in Liara and refused to do her mission and that single Shepard. None of them are interested in any of the ME2 characters. The one who is disappointed in Liara couldn't resist Kelly, though.

Edit: I think that Liara must have a really good story to get Shepard's trust back. Giving the body to Cyberus (whatever the reason) didn't make me trust her. I hope there is some reverse loyalty quest for her in which she needs to earn my trust, instead of the other way around. Of course the Shepard with the pink glasses would take her back without question.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 février 2010 - 01:22 .

[Shizly]

Mox Ruuga wrote...Nope, sorry! I like Miranda better than either G or (especially) T!

Jacob... yeah, he's no Kaidan replacement. Tolerable, but expendable.

Still, I see no reason for Garrus and Tali to get more episodes in my squad than Liara, Kaidan, Ash, and Wrex. Two games for each is enough.

Garrus and Tali rockz more than Liara, Kaidan and Ash together. That's proberly why. Wrex is nice, but not that good as Grunt.

[Nozybidaj]

Shizly wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...Nope, sorry! I like Miranda better than either G or (especially) T!

Jacob... yeah, he's no Kaidan replacement. Tolerable, but expendable.

Still, I see no reason for Garrus and Tali to get more episodes in my squad than Liara, Kaidan, Ash, and Wrex. Two games for each is enough.

Garrus and Tali rockz more than Liara, Kaidan and Ash together. That's proberly why. Wrex is nice, but not that good as Grunt.

Well, thats not unexpected since Garrus and Tali (and Wrex) actually had character development in ME2 instead of being ignored or having a hatchet job done on them.

[MoSa09]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I have 13 finished ME1 characters and I am close to finish a 14th. It was my intention to romance Ashley with that character, but she she really isn't my type. So, instead this character will cancel that romance and will be single until ME3.

So, who were the LIs of the other 13 Shepards? Erm... Liara. I think I can consider myself a Liara fan.

I am planning just 3 characters for ME3. One that loves Liara like there is no tomorrow. One that that is disappointed in Liara and refused to do her mission and that single Shepard. None of them are interested in any of the ME2 characters. The one who is disappointed in Liara couldn't resist Kelly, though.

Edit: I think that Liara must have a really good story to get Shepard's trust back. Giving the body to Cyberus (whatever the reason) didn't make me trust her. I hope there is some reverse loyalty quest for her in which she needs to earn my trust, instead of the other way around. Of course the Shepard with the pink glasses would take her back without question.

I still don't see why she needs to earn your trust. She's gone to hell to bring you back from the dead. Sure, she might have made a pact with the devil, but she had no other option, Cerberus were the only ones able to bring you back to life. If Liara would have done nothing, Shepard would simply become some genetic slush feed to the Terminator, sorry my bad, the human Reaper.
What can be a greater example of love and affection than rsiking your own life and well being and obviously sacrificing your own previous life along the way to rescue that of someone else?

Modifié par MoSa09, 12 février 2010 - 01:34 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Shizly wrote...

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

That's nice, dear.

Thanks for the bump!

[AngryFrozenWater]

MoSa09 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I have 13 finished ME1 characters and I am close to finish a 14th. It was my intention to romance Ashley with that character, but she she really isn't my type. So, instead this character will cancel that romance and will be single until ME3.

So, who were the LIs of the other 13 Shepards? Erm... Liara. I think I can consider myself a Liara fan.

I am planning just 3 characters for ME3. One that loves Liara like there is no tomorrow. One that that is disappointed in Liara and refused to do her mission and that single Shepard. None of them are interested in any of the ME2 characters. The one who is disappointed in Liara couldn't resist Kelly, though.

Edit: I think that Liara must have a really good story to get Shepard's trust back. Giving the body to Cyberus (whatever the reason) didn't make me trust her. I hope there is some reverse loyalty quest for her in which she needs to earn my trust, instead of the other way around. Of course the Shepard with the pink glasses would take her back without question.

I still don't see why she needs to earn your trust. She's gone to hell to bring you back from the dead. Sure, she might have made a pact with the devil, but she had no other option, Cerberus were the only ones able to bring you back to live. If Liara would have done nothing, Shepard would simply become some genetic slush feed to the Terminator, sorry my bad, the human Reaper.
What can be a greater example of love and affection than rsiking your own life and well being and obviously sacrificing your own previous life along the way to rescue that of someone else?

Shepard is being given away to an organization which Shepard absolutely hates. That Shepard wouldn't want to be brought back to life anyway, but the game demands it and doesn't offer a way out in ME2, so Shepard fights for Cerberus. Although with great reservations. It's a path Shepard absolutely hates.

BioWare created those choices for her. I know that. Still it is a role playing game. Giving me away to Cerberus is not an act of love. It is betrayal in that Shepard's eyes. Especially because Shepard has no control over it. That Shepard is dead. Leave it like that. Call it the right of self determination. It has been violated.

Thinking about it some more... Maybe that character should never return from the ME2 mission. I could do that in another run. I never finished the game like that anyway.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 février 2010 - 01:51 .

[MoSa09]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I have 13 finished ME1 characters and I am close to finish a 14th. It was my intention to romance Ashley with that character, but she she really isn't my type. So, instead this character will cancel that romance and will be single until ME3.

So, who were the LIs of the other 13 Shepards? Erm... Liara. I think I can consider myself a Liara fan.

I am planning just 3 characters for ME3. One that loves Liara like there is no tomorrow. One that that is disappointed in Liara and refused to do her mission and that single Shepard. None of them are interested in any of the ME2 characters. The one who is disappointed in Liara couldn't resist Kelly, though.

Edit: I think that Liara must have a really good story to get Shepard's trust back. Giving the body to Cyberus (whatever the reason) didn't make me trust her. I hope there is some reverse loyalty quest for her in which she needs to earn my trust, instead of the other way around. Of course the Shepard with the pink glasses would take her back without question.

I still don't see why she needs to earn your trust. She's gone to hell to bring you back from the dead. Sure, she might have made a pact with the devil, but she had no other option, Cerberus were the only ones able to bring you back to live. If Liara would have done nothing, Shepard would simply become some genetic slush feed to the Terminator, sorry my bad, the human Reaper.
What can be a greater example of love and affection than rsiking your own life and well being and obviously sacrificing your own previous life along the way to rescue that of someone else?

Shepard is being given away to an organization which Shepard absolutely hates. That Shepard wouldn't want to be brought back to life anyway, but the game demands it and doesn't offer a way out in ME2, so Shepard fights for Cerberus. Although with great reservations. It's a path Shepard absolutely hates.

BioWare created those choices for her. I know that. Still it is a role playing game. Giving me away to Cerberus is not an act of love. It is betrayal in that Shepard's eyes. Especially because Shepard has no control over it. That Shepard is dead. Leave it like that. Call it the right of self determination. It has been violated.

Thinking about it some more... Maybe that character should never return from the ME2 mission. I could do that in another run. I never finished the game like that anyway.

Yeah, Shepard hates Cerberus. I could understand the hatred against Liara if she sold her/him while still alive, or if she sold her/him to the highest bidder. But she only gave him to Cerberus cause they were the only ones capable bringing Shepard back to life, she did it reluctantly, she feared Shepard might hate her, and it troubled her conscience for two years.
So now Shepard is stuck with Cerberus. But Shepard is alive, and even if there's only a very slight chance, there is the chance that Shep survives all this and might escape Cerberus also and continue her/his normal life. Regardless of how small this chance might be, is way more than Shep has simply being dead.
If given the choice between life and dead, regardless of how bad the chances for a good life might seem, 99,99 % of all people worldwide would choose life without hesitation.
I simply can't see the logical reasoning behind "you risked and sacrificed everything to bring me back to life from the dead - i so much hate you". However slim Shep's chances of a long and happy life are, they are much better than without Liara's intervention.  At least now, Shep can take matters in her/his own hands. The game can't allow this, but theoretically, Shep can refuse to fight the Collector's, refuse to work with Cerberus, and if Shep dislikes being ressurected, she/he can kill her-/himself again. Now Shepard can take matters in her/his own hand and decide her/his fate alone, something this was not possible while being dead.

So sorry, i simply can't see the reasoning behind being mad at Liara for returning me back to life. If i'm mad at someone, it's TIM and Cerberus. I think we have to agree to disagree on this issue, right?

Modifié par MoSa09, 12 février 2010 - 02:11 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

MoSa09 wrote...

Yeah, Shepard hates Cerberus. I could understand the hatred against Liara if she sold her/him while still alive, or if she sold her/him to the highest bidder. But she only gave him to Cerberus cause they were the only ones capable bringing Shepard back to life, she did it reluctantly, she feared Shepard might hate her, and it troubled her conscience for two years.
So now Shepard is stuck with Cerberus. But Shepard is alive, and even if there's only a very slight chance, there is the chance that Shep survives all this and might escape Cerberus also and continue her/his normal life. Regardless of how small this chance might be, is way more than Shep has simply being dead.
If given the choice between life and dead, regardless of how bad the chances for a good life might seem, 99,99 % of all people worldwide would choose life without hesitation.
I simply can't see the logical reasoning behind "you risked and sacrificed everything to bring me back to life from the dead - i so much hate you". However slim Shep's chances of a long and happy life are, they are much better than without Liara's intervention.  At least now, Shep can take matters in her/his own hands. The game can't allow this, but theoretically, Shep can refuse to fight the Collector's, refuse to work with Cerberus, and if Shep dislikes being ressurected, she/he can kill her-/himself again. Now Shepard can take matters in her/his own hand and decide her/his fate alone, something this was not possible while being dead.

So sorry, i simply can't see the reasoning behind being mad at Liara for returning me back to life. If i'm mad at someone, it's TIM and Cerberus. I think we have to agree to disagree on this issue, right?

You said that Liara fears that Shepard might hate her. After the Illium meeting all that this Shepard sees is that she is interested in her own affairs. She isn't clear at that point and she isn't willing to join Shepard. So, hate is a big word, but she will not reveal what motivates her. The other Shepard (the one with the pink glasses) selected the proper choice with the Shadow Brooker story. The Shepards base their decisions on what they know and I try not use information that I learn from another game.

You also said that "regardless of how bad the chances for a good life might seem, 99,99 %
of all people worldwide would choose life without hesitation". I am afarid that this is not true. In my country for an examply euthanesia is legal. As long as you are sane and there is a chance that the quality of life becomes very low then you have the right to end your life. It is not seen as suicide. It is called the right of self determination. In real life I would never want to be re-animated. Never. Dead is dead. It is actually quite common. I know few people who want it any other way.

Of course in this case you could call being very close to rigor mortis severly ill. In that case, please don't bring me back. I don't want to.

I am sorry, but I cannot explain it any other way. I know a lot of countries have problems with this. In my country it fueled heavy political debates a few decades ago. But we are past that. I can only assume that BioWare a) didn't want to bring it into the equation or it simply never crossed their mind or c) think people like me are mad (which is true of course).

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 février 2010 - 02:38 .

[bjdbwea]

speedy111280 wrote...

The writing in my opinion was fantastic and at times superior to that of ME. The dialogue was generally better, the characters were far more developed.

This is not the thread to pick apart the rest of the game, but let me say this: "Writing" primarily means to me the main story. That really wasn't very well in ME 2. It wasn't well thought out from the beginning, and the presentation was also lacking. Good as a few characters were indeed written, there was almost no integration into the main story, which is one major flaw amongst several. The "middle part of a trilogy" is really no excuse for everything. To me it tastes rather like the well-known phenomenon of hastily produced sequels to successful "first parts" that we also see in the movie industry all too often. But, and now back on topic, usually well-liked characters aren't trashed in the process. On the contrary, you'd think continuing with established characters would even save the creators more time.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 12 février 2010 - 02:43 .

[Nozybidaj]

bjdbwea wrote...

This is not the thread to pick apart the rest of the game, but let me say this: "Writing" primarily means to me the main story. That really wasn't very well in ME 2. It wasn't well thought out from the beginning, and the presentation was also lacking. Good as a few characters were indeed written, there was almost no integration into the main story, which is one major flaw amongst several. The "middle part of a trilogy" is really no excuse for everything. To me it tastes rather like the well-known phenomenon of hastily produced sequels to successful "first parts" that we also see in the movie industry all too often. But, and now back on topic, usually well-liked characters aren't trashed in the process. On the contrary, you'd think continuing with established characters would even save the creators more time.

Agreed.  "Middle parts of a trilogy are haaaarrrddd" is really no excuse.  It is certainly no excuse for trashing the existing characters and tossing them to the side. <_<

[Unit-Alpha]

Shizly wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...Nope, sorry! I like Miranda better than either G or (especially) T!

Jacob... yeah, he's no Kaidan replacement. Tolerable, but expendable.

Still, I see no reason for Garrus and Tali to get more episodes in my squad than Liara, Kaidan, Ash, and Wrex. Two games for each is enough.

Garrus and Tali rockz more than Liara, Kaidan and Ash together. That's proberly why. Wrex is nice, but not that good as Grunt.

Please don't troll the Liara thread.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Nozybidaj wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

This is not the thread to pick apart the rest of the game, but let me say this: "Writing" primarily means to me the main story. That really wasn't very well in ME 2. It wasn't well thought out from the beginning, and the presentation was also lacking. Good as a few characters were indeed written, there was almost no integration into the main story, which is one major flaw amongst several. The "middle part of a trilogy" is really no excuse for everything. To me it tastes rather like the well-known phenomenon of hastily produced sequels to successful "first parts" that we also see in the movie industry all too often. But, and now back on topic, usually well-liked characters aren't trashed in the process. On the contrary, you'd think continuing with established characters would even save the creators more time.

Agreed.  "Middle parts of a trilogy are haaaarrrddd" is really no excuse.  It is certainly no excuse for trashing the existing characters and tossing them to the side. <_<

I agree also on this, I am trying to dream up a story so that it at least makes sense.

[Nozybidaj]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

This is not the thread to pick apart the rest of the game, but let me say this: "Writing" primarily means to me the main story. That really wasn't very well in ME 2. It wasn't well thought out from the beginning, and the presentation was also lacking. Good as a few characters were indeed written, there was almost no integration into the main story, which is one major flaw amongst several. The "middle part of a trilogy" is really no excuse for everything. To me it tastes rather like the well-known phenomenon of hastily produced sequels to successful "first parts" that we also see in the movie industry all too often. But, and now back on topic, usually well-liked characters aren't trashed in the process. On the contrary, you'd think continuing with established characters would even save the creators more time.

Agreed.  "Middle parts of a trilogy are haaaarrrddd" is really no excuse.  It is certainly no excuse for trashing the existing characters and tossing them to the side. <_<

I agree also on this, I am trying to dream up a story so that it at least makes sense.

That'll be harder than writing the second part of a trilogy, that's for sure.

[Ajspeed]

Support it Great idea, in fact i want all the survivors of ME1, ME2, and a few more add to ME3, how you going to destory the reapers with only a few people?

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ajspeed wrote...

Support it Great idea, in fact i want all the survivors of ME1, ME2, and a few more add to ME3, how you going to destory the reapers with only a few people?

Well... It has become a shooter. So give me Wrex and Tali both with carnage and give me the Widow and heavy slam and we could come a long way.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 février 2010 - 03:02 .

[Taritu]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I have 13 finished ME1 characters and I am close to finish a 14th. It was my intention to romance Ashley with that character, but she she really isn't my type. So, instead this character will cancel that romance and will be single until ME3.

So, who were the LIs of the other 13 Shepards? Erm... Liara. I think I can consider myself a Liara fan.

I am planning just 3 characters for ME3. One that loves Liara like there is no tomorrow. One that that is disappointed in Liara and refused to do her mission and that single Shepard. None of them are interested in any of the ME2 characters. The one who is disappointed in Liara couldn't resist Kelly, though.

Edit: I think that Liara must have a really good story to get Shepard's trust back. Giving the body to Cyberus (whatever the reason) didn't make me trust her. I hope there is some reverse loyalty quest for her in which she needs to earn my trust, instead of the other way around. Of course the Shepard with the pink glasses would take her back without question.

Funny, I saw giving my body to Cerberus the other way around.  No one else was going to spend 4 billion creds to bring me back, after all.  So... saving my life more than cancels out "handing me to evil terrorists." 

But certainly, I hope there is no "loyalty" BS with Liara.  Then again, I hope that ME3 does not have the same structure as ME2 at all.  One game of it was, literally, more than enough.

As for Liara, I could never bring myself to romance anyone else in ME1.  Did force myself to do one clean no romance run, but that was just because cheating on Liara was unthinkable.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Taritu wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I have 13 finished ME1 characters and I am close to finish a 14th. It was my intention to romance Ashley with that character, but she she really isn't my type. So, instead this character will cancel that romance and will be single until ME3.

So, who were the LIs of the other 13 Shepards? Erm... Liara. I think I can consider myself a Liara fan.

I am planning just 3 characters for ME3. One that loves Liara like there is no tomorrow. One that that is disappointed in Liara and refused to do her mission and that single Shepard. None of them are interested in any of the ME2 characters. The one who is disappointed in Liara couldn't resist Kelly, though.

Edit: I think that Liara must have a really good story to get Shepard's trust back. Giving the body to Cyberus (whatever the reason) didn't make me trust her. I hope there is some reverse loyalty quest for her in which she needs to earn my trust, instead of the other way around. Of course the Shepard with the pink glasses would take her back without question.

Funny, I saw giving my body to Cerberus the other way around.  No one else was going to spend 4 billion creds to bring me back, after all.  So... saving my life more than cancels out "handing me to evil terrorists." 

But certainly, I hope there is no "loyalty" BS with Liara.  Then again, I hope that ME3 does not have the same structure as ME2 at all.  One game of it was, literally, more than enough.

As for Liara, I could never bring myself to romance anyone else in ME1.  Did force myself to do one clean no romance run, but that was just because cheating on Liara was unthinkable.

Hehe. Well. That's the fun of RPGs. We may not have the same motivations, but our paths in the game are probably very alike.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Do any of you feel that the decisions you made in ME1 really changed how ME2 worked? Especially concerning Liara? I don't have that feeling. It's just the awkward kiss and the picture on the desk in your cabin that make a difference.  The end of the dialog with Liara always ends the same. You still get the mission.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 février 2010 - 03:14 .

[Taritu]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Do any of you feel that the decisions you made in ME1 really changed how ME2 worked? Especially concerning Liara? I don't have that feeling. It's just the awkward kiss and the picture on the desk in your cabin that make a difference.  The end of the dialog with Liara always ends the same. You still get the mission.

No.  In almost all cases, it's just superficial.  With Liara you get a kiss with your hug, but otherwise everything is identical. It was kind of irritating.  I wanted to tell my squadmates, "go wait outside" then turn to Liara and say, "It's me, Shepard, and I still love you.  Talk to me!"

I hope there's more branching in ME3.

[Mox Ruuga]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Do any of you feel that the decisions you made in ME1 really changed how ME2 worked? Especially concerning Liara? I don't have that feeling. It's just the awkward kiss and the picture on the desk in your cabin that make a difference.  The end of the dialog with Liara always ends the same. You still get the mission.

No. I haven't imported my Uber Renegade Adept yet. He was an absolute ass to everyone, including Liara. But from what I hear, she will stil tell you "she couldn't let you go", even if you were a complete bastard, and a human centrist Renegade Terra Firma supporter to boot.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Taritu wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Do any of you feel that the decisions you made in ME1 really changed how ME2 worked? Especially concerning Liara? I don't have that feeling. It's just the awkward kiss and the picture on the desk in your cabin that make a difference.  The end of the dialog with Liara always ends the same. You still get the mission.

No.  In almost all cases, it's just superficial.  With Liara you get a kiss with your hug, but otherwise everything is identical. It was kind of irritating.  I wanted to tell my squadmates, "go wait outside" then turn to Liara and say, "It's me, Shepard, and I still love you.  Talk to me!"

I hope there's more branching in ME3.

You know... I think a rather like DA:O. Even when all dialog options have been exhausted you can pet the dog and walk to Leliana and say "Let's go to bed".