2439 réponses à ce sujet

[KumoriOokami]

JamieCOTC wrote...



There is a scene w/ Miranda where you can discuss some past ME1 events and she pretty much defends Cerberus the whole time, though she admits that torturing Jack was a "mistake".  However, Akuze is never mentioned except in the beginning if your Shepard is a Sole Survivor.  Odd you don't get to react to Miranda, TIM or anyone as that incident defines the character.  I can see it as being problematic as it is only one of three options the player. Still, it seems to be a glaring omission, though you do get an email from Tombs about it. <_<

Of course Liara doesn't even send me an email, so at least there is that...

[Nozybidaj]

KumoriOokami wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...



There is a scene w/ Miranda where you can discuss some past ME1 events and she pretty much defends Cerberus the whole time, though she admits that torturing Jack was a "mistake".  However, Akuze is never mentioned except in the beginning if your Shepard is a Sole Survivor.  Odd you don't get to react to Miranda, TIM or anyone as that incident defines the character.  I can see it as being problematic as it is only one of three options the player. Still, it seems to be a glaring omission, though you do get an email from Tombs about it. <_<

Of course Liara doesn't even send me an email, so at least there is that...

I got an email from a Salarian guy that said Liara told him how to get in touch with me.  I can't help but think that was the devs just rubbing salt in the wounds.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Deamon023 wrote...

I miss those long elevator rides with Liara

Little something for all the great Liara fans that have shown support in this and the other threads.  Continue to show your support, Liara needs it.

Happy Valentine's day.  Don't forget to think about our little blueberry.

[Mox Ruuga]

bjdbwea wrote...


I always thought we should be able to visit planet Earth some time. In fact, I think it would be the perfect place to have the big finale in ME 3. The place where the fate of the entire galaxy is decided by one man or woman. And of course one of the possible outcomes would have to be: Shepard saves the day, and rides into the sunset with his/her LI. It could really be epic, all ingredients are there to create the best ending(s) of any game, ever. The only thing required is for BioWare to get their act together again, remember their old qualities, and rely on them. Oh, and for EA to allow them to do so... I won't hold my breath, but given the (lack of) competition, they're still our best hope for good video games of this kind.

Heh, the ultimate last shot before credits would be Shepard and his/her LI (or Shep alone if no LI), looking at Earth from the viewport of the Normandy.

Possibly some triumphant speech from Anderson in VO, like Star Control II had the protagonist give, about the destiny of mankind after the defeat of the Reapers:



Sigh, still one of my all time favorites, SC2, after all these years. I think my liking of blue skinned space babes can be traced to playing SC2 in an impressionable age...

They should totally recall that first shot of ME1 with the last in ME3. Bring us full circle, only have the beautiful Liara (or other LI of your choice) at Shepard's side, both of them looking at our beautiful planet.

[maikanix]

 It might be obvious to everyone else, but playing through ME2 again I noticed something in the initial greeting with Liara that makes me feel a lot better.

After you kiss her, she looks directly at you and shakes her head. Seems to me, if I had be paying attention before, that she's trying to say "not now, not here". And that silent understanding is why they don't do more.

[speedy111280]

Nozybidaj wrote...

KumoriOokami wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...



There is a scene w/ Miranda where you can discuss some past ME1 events and she pretty much defends Cerberus the whole time, though she admits that torturing Jack was a "mistake".  However, Akuze is never mentioned except in the beginning if your Shepard is a Sole Survivor.  Odd you don't get to react to Miranda, TIM or anyone as that incident defines the character.  I can see it as being problematic as it is only one of three options the player. Still, it seems to be a glaring omission, though you do get an email from Tombs about it. <_<

Of course Liara doesn't even send me an email, so at least there is that...

I got an email from a Salarian guy that said Liara told him how to get in touch with me.  I can't help but think that was the devs just rubbing salt in the wounds.

I didn't take that as rubbing salt in the wounds, I took to mean that while Liara will let a random Salarian I helped get in contact with me she is still afraid to do so herself because why would the SB (and by extension the Collectors) be interested in the email of an unimportant Salarian worker whereas I'm sure the SB is very interested in Liara's email. She's had an operative of the Shadow Broker spying on her for months, if not years, and she trusts no one around her to not set both her and Shepard up for capture by the SB. Unlike Ash/Kaidan (who aren't risking their lives going against the SB), Liara has a very good reason not to contact Shepard via such easily intercepted methods. The Collectors want Shepard, Liara had to fight tooth and nail to get Shepard's body back from the SB to prevent it being turned over to the Collectors. She's going after the SB because of it, but that doesn't mean that she wants to put Shepard back in the SB's crosshairs. The SB is waiting for his shot at taking out Liara, if she can keep his attention focused on her, Shepard can stop the Collectors without the SB adding to the problem. The SB is obviously not someone who loses well, and he'd probably stop at nothing to get his hands on Shepard again to turn over the Collectors and ruining any chance of stopping them without Liara's vengence keeping him occupied. So I didn't see anything wrong with Liara not emailing Shepard since she makes it plainly obvious that she doesn't trust anyone but Shepard at this point and she's obviously not willing to put at Shepard at risk. Shepard's access to Cerberus' systems and info would probably get her heck of a lot further in her search for the SB than any of her contacts but at least on Illium she's not a spotlight on Shepard's activities. She's essentially set herself up as bait to allow Shepard freedom of movement by keeping the SB's attention on her and her movements. It's just a twist on the "send your lover away to protect them" cliche.

[speedy111280]

maikanix wrote...

 It might be obvious to everyone else, but playing through ME2 again I noticed something in the initial greeting with Liara that makes me feel a lot better.

After you kiss her, she looks directly at you and shakes her head. Seems to me, if I had be paying attention before, that she's trying to say "not now, not here". And that silent understanding is why they don't do more.

Very true, plus I doubt she's forgotten that Nyxeris is standing over in the corner of the room watching everything.

[morrie23]

maikanix wrote...

 It might be obvious to everyone else, but playing through ME2 again I noticed something in the initial greeting with Liara that makes me feel a lot better.

After you kiss her, she looks directly at you and shakes her head. Seems to me, if I had be paying attention before, that she's trying to say "not now, not here". And that silent understanding is why they don't do more.

I like this idea, looking at the scene again it does look like she shakes her head while looking directly at Shep, combined with the dialogue after you ask her to just tell you wants going on, one could come to the conclusion that they are both holding back.

[Nozybidaj]

maikanix wrote...

 It might be obvious to everyone else, but playing through ME2 again I noticed something in the initial greeting with Liara that makes me feel a lot better.

After you kiss her, she looks directly at you and shakes her head. Seems to me, if I had be paying attention before, that she's trying to say "not now, not here". And that silent understanding is why they don't do more.

I took it more as a "I shouldn't have done that" first time I saw it.  Why not just have her actually say "not now, not here", then the entire rest of the reunion would have actually made sense.

[Nozybidaj]

speedy111280 wrote...

I didn't take that as rubbing salt in the wounds, I took to mean that while Liara will let a random Salarian I helped get in contact with me she is still afraid to do so herself because why would the SB (and by extension the Collectors) be interested in the email of an unimportant Salarian worker whereas I'm sure the SB is very interested in Liara's email. She's had an operative of the Shadow Broker spying on her for months, if not years, and she trusts no one around her to not set both her and Shepard up for capture by the SB. Unlike Ash/Kaidan (who aren't risking their lives going against the SB), Liara has a very good reason not to contact Shepard via such easily intercepted methods. The Collectors want Shepard, Liara had to fight tooth and nail to get Shepard's body back from the SB to prevent it being turned over to the Collectors. She's going after the SB because of it, but that doesn't mean that she wants to put Shepard back in the SB's crosshairs. The SB is waiting for his shot at taking out Liara, if she can keep his attention focused on her, Shepard can stop the Collectors without the SB adding to the problem. The SB is obviously not someone who loses well, and he'd probably stop at nothing to get his hands on Shepard again to turn over the Collectors and ruining any chance of stopping them without Liara's vengence keeping him occupied. So I didn't see anything wrong with Liara not emailing Shepard since she makes it plainly obvious that she doesn't trust anyone but Shepard at this point and she's obviously not willing to put at Shepard at risk. Shepard's access to Cerberus' systems and info would probably get her heck of a lot further in her search for the SB than any of her contacts but at least on Illium she's not a spotlight on Shepard's activities. She's essentially set herself up as bait to allow Shepard freedom of movement by keeping the SB's attention on her and her movements. It's just a twist on the "send your lover away to protect them" cliche.

I doubt the SB is too worried about love notes between Liara and Shep. <_<

Besides, this is Shepard, being backed by Cerberus and TIM, on the most advanced ship in the galaxy, full of the (supposedly) most bad ass team in the galaxy.  The Collectors (and by extension the Reapers) are already after me as much as I am after them.  Bring it on.  Like Grunt said "When you kill the most dangerous thing in the galaxy, that leaves....us".

And all that aside, okay so she can't email.  Why not say something when he is "standing right in front of you"?

I appreciate people taking the time to try and rationalize the devs intentions, but the ball was simply dropped in the handling of the Liara reunion.  No amount of speculation on our side makes up for that.

[Mox Ruuga]

Yeah, she's openly discussing her plans against the SB in front of Shepard, so why should she be afraid to show affection towards him/her? I'm sure their (possible) love affair was no big secret, and the SB already knows about it.

[speedy111280]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I doubt the SB is too worried about love notes between Liara and Shep. <_<

Besides, this is Shepard, being backed by Cerberus and TIM, on the most advanced ship in the galaxy, full of the (supposedly) most bad ass team in the galaxy.  The Collectors (and by extension the Reapers) are already after me as much as I am after them.  Bring it on.  Like Grunt said "When you kill the most dangerous thing in the galaxy, that leaves....us".

And all that aside, okay so she can't email.  Why not say something when he is "standing right in front of you"?

I appreciate people taking the time to try and rationalize the devs intentions, but the ball was simply dropped in the handling of the Liara reunion.  No amount of speculation on our side makes up for that.

Since Liara managed to steal Shepard's body away from him I'm sure the SB is very concerned with what she's doing, even if it is sending love letters to Shepard. He has had Nyxeris spying on her for who knows how long that's not the actions of someone unconcerned with what Liara's up to. In the end it doesn't matter what we think, it matters what Liara thinks and it's obvious (she's pretty blatant about it) that she doesn't trust anyone else in the galaxy when it comes to Shepard. Honestly, I can't say that I blame her because even the people she should trust, the rest of the ME crew, turn their backs on her (and Shepard) to go do their own thing. She may be acting a tad bit paranoid but it's understandable.

I don't think Liara needed to or do anymore than she did in the reunion. I think her confession about how Shep got into Cerberus' hands is the most obvious declaration of love from any character toward Shepard. The ball was dropped in Shepard not being able to say anything about his/her feelings for Liara. Liara's are out there for all the world to see. I'm upset that Shepard couldn't acknowledge those feelings but I didn't need any more from Liara to know how she feels. She loves Shepard regardless of Shepard's feelings and that's good enough for me. Although I think Liara's story is more heartbreaking with a Shep who didn't romance her because she's fighting so hard to bring you back knowing you won't be with her since you already chose someone else over her. 

Shepard's ties to Cerberus are in no way a protection against the SB or anyone else. Cerberus may have resources but they are an isolated group with a very specific agenda and very limited power in the scheme of the things. The SB has far more power than TIM/Cerberus ever will. He may not be actively going after Shepard but I doubt he'd turn down the opportunity to get a hold of Shepard for the Collectors again if an opportunity presented itself.

Modifié par speedy111280, 14 février 2010 - 09:33 .

[Nozybidaj]

speedy111280 wrote...
I don't think Liara needed to or do anymore than she did in the reunion. I think her confession about how Shep got into Cerberus' hands is the most obvious declaration of love from any character toward Shepard. The ball was dropped in Shepard not being able to say anything about his/her feelings for Liara.

Agreed.  I still think both Liara and Shep should have had more dialouge, the scene is just incomplete without it, but yes the most glaring issue is Shepard's complete apathy to the entire situation.  There still should have been some specific dialogue from Liara if she was your LI as well.

[Zegla]

I played through the part with Liara a couple of minutes ago (my second playthrough) and I just don't know what to think about it.
It really isn't that bad. It's just very short.
I'm also having a hard time believing that she would become so cold despite what she's going through (I mean, it is Liara we're talking about). It just seems way out of character.
I'm not getting my hopes up to much but it would be nice to see some kind of resolution to all this (in dlc and/or in Me3) so that , hopefully, we can get our old Liara back (and get her to join our team ).


Of course, there are some nice moments such as the kiss and to learn that it was Liara that saved Shepard, but still....


I'm confused and frustrated. I need to lie down for a bit .

Modifié par Zegla, 14 février 2010 - 11:12 .

[ComTrav]

http://social.biowar...746/polls/2237/



I made a poll. How much more romance content do you want in ME3?

[Nozybidaj]

ComTrav wrote...

http://social.biowar...746/polls/2237/

I made a poll. How much more romance content do you want in ME3?

Nice.  Voted.

[Nozybidaj]

Zegla wrote...

I'm confused and frustrated. I need to lie down for a bit .

That's a natural first reaction to the Liara reunion.

[mohdhm]

NO

[Nozybidaj]

mohdhm wrote...

NO

Chocolate




(are we playing some weird word dropping game here?)

[HomicidialFrog]

I just thought of something interesting: A morally degrading series of tasks to ensure Liara's safety.

I figured in the Liara DLC that Liara could get captured by the Shadow Broker, and begin blackmailing Shepard and telling him to do things, such as kill this loving father of 5 children who he's very close to and has a loving wife with a big family who does good deeds alot, but of course did something to get on the Shadow Broker's bad side along with a few other horrible things Shepard has to do and if you don't do it, Liara get's killed.

This would be interesting for my Paragon Shepard, because even he would do anything just to ensure Liara's safety. And my RenegadeShep would do it with a clear conscience, because it doesn't exist. Of course Renegade Shepards will have no trouble in doing this, but Paragon Shepards on the other hand either have to choose to either do some extremely bad Renegade options just to ensure Liara's safety.

The Paragon option of course would be to refuse and thus get Liara killed, it's Paragon because despite Shepard loving her, she's still just ONE person and your only doing it for your own gain.

EDIT: Forget to put this in sorry: It would kinda be like the Fallout 3 quest where you have to do all those bad things to people otherwise you'll never get your Dad back. Only this time, Liara can die and of course there's no way to get Liara back and not do the horrible things that the Shadow Broker tells you to.

Modifié par HomicidialFrog, 15 février 2010 - 12:12 .

[Pineappletree]

Being a Liara fan myself, I don't get the discussion about her "bad written total change into an icecold business woman / killer" at all. (No offense meant to anybody here)

In my eyes there are so many glimpses of her "real" self in every interaction with her ...

The tone of her voice constantly changes between cool distance, rabid hate and even despair, at least on a subtle level. (Kudos for her voice actress btw). She dosen't sit still on her chair, but stands up times and times again just to sit down two sentences later. She is talking about trust and can't look Shepard in the eyes but stares out of the window.

In that first (Kiss) scene, she shows her "real" self for a moment, being overjoyed with Shepards arrival. And when she stops that kiss and shakes her head it's basically because there are so much emotions welling up and confusing her.

She wants to protect her own life and "business" from all those curious, ill-natured eyes that undoubtedly are observing her. She wants to protect Shepards life from them. (This being the more obvious reason that Shepard can see and understand, as maikanix wrote)
But there is also this terrible fear in her that Shepard might reject and hate her because of her role in his/her resurrection by Cerberus. She doesn't want the relationship to go too deep again at the moment because in her deep love for Shepard * she simply can't bear that thought of loosing it (again).

And in the background there's allways all the unprocessed grief for her previous losses and hate for her current situation and she projects all that (not entirely wrongly) on the Shadow Broker...

All this isn't the behaviour of a cold, calculating woman. This is the girl Liara we know from ME1, still not entirely able to deal with all those strong emotions in her young mind. This is the "real" Liara trying to shield her inner self with a cold fassade from a brutal, dark side of the universe she didn't know at all until Shepard, Geth and Reapers burst suddenly in her life, roughly 2 1/2 years ago.

Yes, one can undoubtedly discuss if there should be more options for us in Shepard's role to interact with her. **

But that "change" in Liara's personality makes perfect sense to me and I consider it not bad but - on the contrary - excellent writing!

This is my interpretation, thanks for reading, now /discuss



*(And in my eyes this love is pretty much independent from the actual romance subplot in ME1 or she wouldn't have been so obsessed with finding Shepard's body in the first place. We only decide if Shepard returns that love or not.)

**(Allthough I think it can make sence the way it is, if you think about Shepard - just awoken from the dead - trying to safe life from an imminent threat once again, with all the galaxy looking up to him/her and time, Collectors, Cerberus, the Illusive Man and whatnot at his/her back.)

Modifié par FdL_Ananas, 15 février 2010 - 02:27 .

[Nozybidaj]

HomicidialFrog wrote...

I just thought of something interesting: ....

No.

[Nozybidaj]

FdL_Ananas wrote...
This is my interpretation, thanks for reading, now /discuss

I think we all get the fact that it is supposed to be an act and that the real Liara is still underneath all that.  I think most of us just don't by it. 

Of course when she is talking about the Shadow Broker it is supposed to be anything but an act.  She isn't joking about "wanting to slam him with biotic barriers" and the such.  I don't buy it.  It's too big of a jump in character.  I could totally buy her having gone through something traumatic, getting Feron killed to save Shepard, and wanting to hunt down the SB, but her psycho crazy killer girl dialogue is too much.  Should she be mad, absolutely, should she be distraught and a little paranoid before Shepard returns, sure.  Trying to act like a blue skinned version of Jack though just doesn't work.

There is no reason for her to act that way with Shepard either.  And there is certainly no reason for Shepard to act the way he does.