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[Deamon023]

Nozybidaj wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...


People waited two years to see the continuation of these characters and relationship and .... this ... is what we got. You can't blame anyone for feeling angry and bitter about it.

This.

Yeah.

[speedy111280]

WilliamShatner wrote...

flem1 wrote...

This thread started off so nice, and now it's all full of bitterness and anger.

Sort of like...

People waited two years to see the continuation of these characters and relationship and .... this ... is what we got. You can't blame anyone for feeling angry and bitter about it.

Well, Casey did say several times that ME2 is a rocky point in the relationships from ME1. You can't come back from the dead and have everything be all sunshine and rainbows with your LI, that would be far more unrealistic than what they did. I personally like what they did because the relationship hits a rough patch when you encounter your ME1 LI and you have to decide if Shepard is willing to work through it or move on instead of forcing you to continue it. It's a far more realistic approach to romance than I've seen in a game before, although I would have liked Shepard to be able to acknowledge any feelings on the matter which IMO is the only downfall to how the LI's from ME1 were handled. 

[WilliamShatner]

We've just all got the blues from Liara's roles in ME2, that's all.



You see we've got the blues because Asari are blue. Heh heh.

[Movodor]

speedy111280 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

flem1 wrote...

This thread started off so nice, and now it's all full of bitterness and anger.

Sort of like...

People waited two years to see the continuation of these characters and relationship and .... this ... is what we got. You can't blame anyone for feeling angry and bitter about it.

Well, Casey did say several times that ME2 is a rocky point in the relationships from ME1. You can't come back from the dead and have everything be all sunshine and rainbows with your LI, that would be far more unrealistic than what they did. I personally like what they did because the relationship hits a rough patch when you encounter your ME1 LI and you have to decide if Shepard is willing to work through it or move on instead of forcing you to continue it. It's a far more realistic approach to romance than I've seen in a game before, although I would have liked Shepard to be able to acknowledge any feelings on the matter which IMO is the only downfall to how the LI's from ME1 were handled. 

^Precisely my feelings on the matter.

[Nozybidaj]

speedy111280 wrote...

Well, Casey did say several times that ME2 is a rocky point in the relationships from ME1. You can't come back from the dead and have everything be all sunshine and rainbows with your LI,  

For there to be a rocky and troubled patch in the relationship wouldn't there actually need to be a relationship?  How can you have a troubled time with someone who isn't even there?  That's not troubled, that is nonexistant.  Hell I'd take troubled over what we got.  At least that would imply some sort of relationship actually be in the game and require actual content and interaction with the LI's.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Littledoom wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

flem1 wrote...

This thread started off so nice, and now it's all full of bitterness and anger.

Sort of like...

Such is the fate of all Liara themed threads.

I have a theory that Liara might actually be a succubus that has ensorcelled the population of this thread in to fanatic troglodytes with a taste for Bioware blood.

And I have a feeling your just out to provoke people.

Perhaps "troglodyte" was the wrong word. I apologize.

But you can't really deny that a positive Liara thread is an oxymoron.

[Nozybidaj]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Perhaps "troglodyte" was the wrong word. I apologize.

But you can't really deny that a positive Liara thread is an oxymoron.

Surface you've done so well up till now.  We all get it, you don't like Liara.  Please stop trolling our threads.

[Movodor]

How they wrote her wasn't positive..ly handled. I was glad to see the character appear again, and no doubt she'll be in 3, so I'm fine to wait and see how the character develops.

[Nastrod]

Nozybidaj wrote...

speedy111280 wrote...

Well, Casey did say several times that ME2 is a rocky point in the relationships from ME1. You can't come back from the dead and have everything be all sunshine and rainbows with your LI,  

For there to be a rocky and troubled patch in the relationship wouldn't there actually need to be a relationship?  How can you have a troubled time with someone who isn't even there?  That's not troubled, that is nonexistant.  Hell I'd take troubled over what we got.  At least that would imply some sort of relationship actually be in the game and require actual content and interaction with the LI's.

I agree my shep left the meeting with Liara scratching his head thinking " Hmmm maybe the whole being dead messed me up but I could have sworn we were in love"

Modifié par Nastrod, 16 février 2010 - 01:37 .

[WilliamShatner]

speedy111280 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

flem1 wrote...

This thread started off so nice, and now it's all full of bitterness and anger.

Sort of like...

People waited two years to see the continuation of these characters and relationship and .... this ... is what we got. You can't blame anyone for feeling angry and bitter about it.

Well, Casey did say several times that ME2 is a rocky point in the relationships from ME1. You can't come back from the dead and have everything be all sunshine and rainbows with your LI, that would be far more unrealistic than what they did. I personally like what they did because the relationship hits a rough patch when you encounter your ME1 LI and you have to decide if Shepard is willing to work through it or move on instead of forcing you to continue it. It's a far more realistic approach to romance than I've seen in a game before, although I would have liked Shepard to be able to acknowledge any feelings on the matter which IMO is the only downfall to how the LI's from ME1 were handled. 

Casey Hudson also said that despite not being crew members they LI would still have big roles in ME2. 

Liara and my Shepard would be delighted to see each other after two years.  Heck the minute she hears Liara is working on Illium that would be her first stop.

The lack of any joy in their reunion is a huge, colossal mistake that goes against what we know about these characters and their relationship and is also dramatically dead in the water.

The scene could have played out that the moment Liara sees Shepard all her problems would disappear and she would be happy again, and then when we start asking her what she has been doing for the past two year then her "darker" side would surface.  We see the Liara we know and love from the original game and then we see her develop into something different in front of our faces.  More realistic, more dramatic and overall better.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nozybidaj wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Perhaps "troglodyte" was the wrong word. I apologize.

But you can't really deny that a positive Liara thread is an oxymoron.

Surface you've done so well up till now.  We all get it, you don't like Liara.  Please stop trolling our threads.

I'm not trying to troll. Honestly, I just thought troglodyte is a funny word and it so worked in conjunction with Liara ensnaring you all with the majesty of her little head tenticle thingies.

I'm just trying to make some fun is all

[speedy111280]

Nozybidaj wrote...

speedy111280 wrote...

Well, Casey did say several times that ME2 is a rocky point in the relationships from ME1. You can't come back from the dead and have everything be all sunshine and rainbows with your LI,  

For there to be a rocky and troubled patch in the relationship wouldn't there actually need to be a relationship?  How can you have a troubled time with someone who isn't even there?  That's not troubled, that is nonexistant.  Hell I'd take troubled over what we got.  At least that would imply some sort of relationship actually be in the game and require actual content and interaction with the LI's.

We disagree on this as well because I don't think the LI has to be there for there to be a rough patch. All 3 ME1 LI's will acknowledge their feelings for Shepard to some extent so the issue isn't the LI's for me, the issue I have is Shepard doesn't acknowledge the relationships, at all. I know that you can discuss the Ash/Kaidan reunion with Joker and Kelly but I got the same dialogue from my Shep that didn't romance Ash as the Shep that did. Which is why I say the fault of the continued romances in ME2 is in how Shepard responds to them.

[speedy111280]

WilliamShatner wrote...


Casey Hudson also said that despite not being crew members they LI would still have big roles in ME2. 

Liara and my Shepard would be delighted to see each other after two years.  Heck the minute she hears Liara is working on Illium that would be her first stop.

The lack of any joy in their reunion is a huge, colossal mistake that goes against what we know about these characters and their relationship and is also dramatically dead in the water.

The scene could have played out that the moment Liara sees Shepard all her problems would disappear and she would be happy again, and then when we start asking her what she has been doing for the past two year then her "darker" side would surface.  We see the Liara we know and love from the original game and then we see her develop into something different in front of our faces.  More realistic, more dramatic and overall better.

I saw joy from Liara when Shep walked into her office, though it was short lived. And I would have to heartily disagree about your version of how the reunion could have played out because it would be doing Liara a great disservice.  Her problems aren't going to disappear just because Shep walks back in her door. She's had a life of her own for the last two years with its problems. They won't go away, even temporarily, because she is seeing Shep again. That's a huge cliche for female LI's that I'm actually rather tired of seeing in sci-fi/fantasy. It cheapens the characters and the romance and I'm very glad Bioware didn't do that. Liara is capable of handling herself, she isn't a damsel in distress in need of a big, strong hero to make her troubles go away. The reunions with the ME1 LI's make Liara and Ash/Kaidan their own people outside of their connection to Shepard, that their life doesn't revolve around Shepard. It makes them much better characters in the long run and makes the romance more meaningful.

[speedy111280]

I had an interesting thought regarding Liara just a few minutes ago while washing my hair (yes I tend to get ideas at the strangest times). Liara is the Fox Mulder of ME. In ME1 she's spent decades obsessively searching for the truth about the Prothean extinction and no one believes her theories even though they prove to be pretty much right on the money. After the destruction of the Normandy she gives up everything that had been important to her in order to get Shep's body back even though she knows Shep is dead. In ME2 she's put the rest of her life on hold in an obsessive quest to take down the SB because of what he did to Shep.

[Nozybidaj]

speedy111280 wrote...
 It makes them much better characters in the long run and makes the romance more meaningful.

So you're happy that Liara served no part in 1/3 of the trilogy and feel that having no second chapter of the romance made it more meaningful.  Good for you.  The rest of us are disappointed that the game took one of our favorite characters and strongest emotional ties to the game and threw it out the window.  I'm more than happy to agree to disagree.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

My scene would have played out with Shepard diving over Liara's desk and then "breaking in the furniture."

[SurfaceBeneath]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

I'm not trying to troll. Honestly, I just thought troglodyte is a funny word and it so worked in conjunction with Liara ensnaring you all with the majesty of her little head tenticle thingies.

I'm just trying to make some fun is all

Christ you're obsessive. You say you don't like Liara but every time I look at your recent activity after one of your cnutish posts in her threads it's always chock full of activity in....Liara threads.

Get some help, son. Seriously.

Obsessive? How is making 5 posts in Liara threads over the past hour obsessive?

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 16 février 2010 - 02:42 .

[SurfaceBeneath]

By the way, despite my personal opinions of her, I actually really do hope Liara is a squaddie in ME3.

So I've every right to post in this thread :happy:

[Arcadionn]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

By the way, despite my personal opinions of her, I actually really do hope Liara is a squaddie in ME3.

So I've every right to post in this thread :happy:

These are public forums... You have inherant rights to post in  any thread not locked by moderators...

And yes, Liara for DLC/ME3.

[speedy111280]

Nozybidaj wrote...

speedy111280 wrote...
 It makes them much better characters in the long run and makes the romance more meaningful.

So you're happy that Liara served no part in 1/3 of the trilogy and feel that having no second chapter of the romance made it more meaningful.  Good for you.  The rest of us are disappointed that the game took one of our favorite characters and strongest emotional ties to the game and threw it out the window.  I'm more than happy to agree to disagree.

That line you quoted was in reference to the previously suggested way the Liara reunion could have played out, the entire post was in reference to that suggestion actually, and how cliche I think it would have been. I get that people don't like how it was done in ME2 and I'm in no way saying I wouldn't have approved of more Liara in ME2 or a different approach, just not that particular one.  It was my opinion on a suggestion and I'd gladly take what we got over what I consider to be a cliched portrayal of non-male LI's for the genre. That doesn't mean I don't wish there had been more of Liara but as a female I'm very tired of the cliche that a good man/woman can make all their troubles go away romances because it's not realistic. I am content with what they did in ME2, there are things I'd love to change about it but not at the expense of playing out a tired cliche. If they had done what was suggested I would have had my Shep cheat on Liara in a frakkin' heartbeat.

Modifié par speedy111280, 16 février 2010 - 03:29 .

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Don't get the thread locked...