551 réponses à ce sujet

[talbainx]

Abriael_CG wrote...


Actually i'd find it absolutely assholish if it was a male reporter as well. Maybe less disgusting, but a total douche action none the less.
This, of course, without mentioning that if you punch a reported you're basically playing in his palm, which makes the action twice as stupid. But I guess that's an entirely different matter.

That's the marvelous part of it. IN real life, yes what you said would be correct. But in this game, despite her two attempt at tanking you, disregarding any effect it would have on humanity's future and politics, You can punch her and get away with it. It's complete victory over corrupted press.

[binaryemperor]

talbainx wrote...
That's the marvelous part of it. IN real life, yes what you said would be correct. But in this game, despite her two attempt at tanking you, disregarding any effect it would have on humanity's future and politics, You can punch her and get away with it. It's complete victory over corrupted press.

Symbolism representing justice against The Man. +50 gamerscore.

[Abriael_CG]

I Ryukage I wrote...

(Before I begin, If I sound rude I apologize as I'm not trying to come off as such)

I skimmed through this topic a bit. Ultimately, I believe its there as sort of "comic relief", in the sense that its something probably many of us (or whomever) has wanted to do when dealing with real-life reporters whom act as such. The fact that they have free reign to many times twist stories, and break into peoples personal lives is atrocious, however I am not condoning violence, in the end it still is a work of fiction, and should be left as such.

Yes it can be seen as over-the-top, seeing as life-like it seems and sounds, the reporter having a black eye as well as small spurts of blood across her face. However at the end of the day, as I said before, its a work of fiction, whether well-written or not, it was in the previous game as well. If you enjoyed the first, then when checking on youtube there are tons of a-hole-ish actions/dialogue that the MC takes part in, including punching the reporter, foreshadowing the events to come in this scenario.

Its a mature game, as you said while doing such an action isn't considered well written, the game being labeled as mature should have made it clear that its an "almost" anything goes type of deal. Whether in other games its insane amounts of blood and gore flying across the screen, or mature themes and scenarios in this game (such as Jack's backstory, the potrayl of other elements/races).

On my main, Paragon (slightly renegade maybe 5 points) playthrough, I did NOT hit the reporter, rather talked her down with the Paragon option. I usually naturally play as paragon in any game I'm playing, if i don't agree with soemthing I'll take a neutral path. (Only renegade option i remember was insulting the blonde crooked Noveria officer before the fight).

In the end, I'd just say reload your data if thats not the path you wish to take, its a small part of the game, hitting close to home (figuratively speaking ) to some, as other scenarios in the game might do it for other people.

THIS is how it's done. Thank you very much.

I see your points definitely. And yes, most of my problem comes from the fact of how badly written renegade shepard looks, compared to the rest. I would have definitely preferred a negative but still decently smart chacarter, instead of the stereotyped "chaotic stupid", which is basically the bane of any realistic roleplay.
Still, I was here asking for opinions, and I'm glad that someone, at last, has shown up with the response I was expecting. Again. Thank you.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 03 février 2010 - 09:08 .

[Felix Golden]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Felix Golden wrote...
But in all seriousness, whats wrong with punching a female reporter who's only goal in life is to smear your name? i would certainly do it to a male reporter and it would be sexist of me to not give a female reporter the same respect and response i would give to her male peer!

Actually i'd find it absolutely assholish if it was a male reporter as well. Maybe less disgusting, but a total douche action none the less.
This, of course, without mentioning that if you punch a reported you're basically playing in his hand, giving him/her even more bigger news to report.  Which makes the action twice as stupid. But I guess that's an entirely different matter.
That's exactly the difference between a believable villain and a "chaotic stupid". Unfortunately renegade shepard falls into the chaotic stupid a tad too often to be interesting as a character.

But again, its a video game. Saying that its so horrible shocking is like those people who tried to blame murdering on someone on playing Grandtheft auto.

Oh, come on, hyperbole much? I said that I felt it was a tad over the top. I didn't say it's gonna spawn rank upon rank of women-beating-gamers.

And those rank upon rank shall march into mordor...sorry wrong topic...

But, its not really chaotic stupid if you really think about it, she talks about all these things you have done, you have punched her in the face in the past (depending on your play through, dont know which is "default" though)

So, when she starts insulting you, and accusing you again, she antagonized you in the past, and got the fist, the logical outcome of her antagonizing and degrading you again, is logicaly going to be either escalation or a repeat, if you punish someone once for something you dont deescilate and expect things to stop, you use force again or take it up a notch.

She is lucky she didnt get an arm broken or shot reallisticly (and i use the term loosly, depending on your previous play through)

[Popguin]

Abriael_CG wrote...

This, of course, without mentioning that if you punch a reported you're basically playing in his hand, giving him/her even more bigger news to report.  Which makes the action twice as stupid. But I guess that's an entirely different matter.

Renegade Shepard does tend to be pretty stupid.
When you're not killing people or using intimidate, the whitetext renegade options usually result in: Shepard mouths off to someone ->Shepard is immediately rebuked/proven wrong ->Shepard sits there and scowls at them.

fuhuhu~

[DBHolm]

Abriael, if you had a point, it is rapidly vanishing. Attacking people, even people who attack you first, is no way to behave when attempting a civil discussion. It only invites others to attack you back.



As for the original post; no, I do not think it was out of line for a Renegade action, despite the fact that I agree with you regarding violence towards women. While the sex of the person should not matter in most instances, when it comes to violence, there are physical differences to consider -- men are, on average, larger and stronger than women. (This does not mean that I think women should be treated as porcelain, mind you -- I'm quite certain that many women I know would be able to tie me into a knot. But that concerns individuals, not in general.) That being said, gallantry towards women is a form of sexism. Well-intentioned, yes, but it is still sexism. Treat a woman the same as you would a man under most circumstances, keeping in mind that there are physical differences between the sexes; that's my philosophy. (Whether or not I live up to my own standards is up for debate, I suppose.)

[HAGA NAGA]

whatever..........Maleshep can punch women, but Femshep can't romance women


That's EA & Bioware's style i guess

[Abriael_CG]

Felix Golden wrote...

But, its not really chaotic stupid if you really think about it, she talks about all these things you have done, you have punched her in the face in the past (depending on your play through, dont know which is "default" though)

The problem is that she's obviously trying to make you look bad. By punching her in the face you only manage to letting her achieve that goal, damaging your already weakened reputation in the process, hence, making shepard a by-the-book chaotic stupid.

Unfortunately I did notice that Bioware doesn't seem to be able to portray believable villany with a bit of depth since the times of Baldur's Gate (unless there was some in Jade Empire, that unfotunately I missed).

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 03 février 2010 - 09:12 .

[Jzier]

I LOVED PUNCHING THE REPORTER

[Maria Caliban]

binaryemperor wrote...

Oh god, the trolling, it is SPREADING RAPIDLY!

Where's mordin! We NEED a cure FAST!

(in his defense I think I caught a "NO U" type of remark in there somewhere If I am not mistaken, that is an "ad hominem" argument, no?)

bah, I'm not even goin' to begin to try to correct lore. this is vernacular whatever, the idea is there.

An ad hominem refers to a specific type of arguement in which a person’s opinion or argument is wrong because of who they are.

Examples:

"Maria is an idiot" <- Personal attack, but not an ad hominem.

"Maria is an idiot, don't listen to her." <- Again, personal attack, but not ad hom.

"Maria is a tali-lover so of course she hates Liara and thinks she shouldn’t be in ME 3." <- Ad hominem.

I think ‘No, you!’ might be a different fallacy.

[Homebound]

Abriael_CG wrote...

I Ryukage I wrote...

(Before I begin, If I sound rude I apologize as I'm not trying to come off as such)

I skimmed through this topic a bit. Ultimately, I believe its there as sort of "comic relief", in the sense that its something probably many of us (or whomever) has wanted to do when dealing with real-life reporters whom act as such. The fact that they have free reign to many times twist stories, and break into peoples personal lives is atrocious, however I am not condoning violence, in the end it still is a work of fiction, and should be left as such.

Yes it can be seen as over-the-top, seeing as life-like it seems and sounds, the reporter having a black eye as well as small spurts of blood across her face. However at the end of the day, as I said before, its a work of fiction, whether well-written or not, it was in the previous game as well. If you enjoyed the first, then when checking on youtube there are tons of a-hole-ish actions/dialogue that the MC takes part in, including punching the reporter, foreshadowing the events to come in this scenario.

Its a mature game, as you said while doing such an action isn't considered well written, the game being labeled as mature should have made it clear that its an "almost" anything goes type of deal. Whether in other games its insane amounts of blood and gore flying across the screen, or mature themes and scenarios in this game (such as Jack's backstory, the potrayl of other elements/races).

On my main, Paragon (slightly renegade maybe 5 points) playthrough, I did NOT hit the reporter, rather talked her down with the Paragon option. I usually naturally play as paragon in any game I'm playing, if i don't agree with soemthing I'll take a neutral path. (Only renegade option i remember was insulting the blonde crooked Noveria officer before the fight).

In the end, I'd just say reload your data if thats not the path you wish to take, its a small part of the game, hitting close to home (figuratively speaking ) to some, as other scenarios in the game might do it for other people.

THIS is how it's done. Thank you very much.

I see your points definitely. And yes, most of my problem comes from the fact of how badly written renegade shepard looks, compared to the rest. I would have definitely preferred a negative but still decently smart chacarter, instead of the stereotyped "chaotic stupid", which is basically the bane of any realistic roleplay.
Still, I was here asking for opinions, and I'm glad that someone, at last, has shown up with the response I was expecting. Again. Thank you.

This is what we've all been saying. Im glad you finally get it. Im happy for you.

[Abriael_CG]

Just_mike wrote...
This is what we've all been saying. Im glad you finally get it. Im happy for you.

Maybe you need to work on your communication skills a bit more then [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Your first post was simply an extremely condescending "If you think so you're a kid and you shouldn't play this game". Which is very, very different from what Ryukage said.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 03 février 2010 - 09:17 .

[KalosCast]

Jzier wrote...

I LOVED PUNCHING THE REPORTER

ME TOO

And in ME1, Hackett is rather quick to point out how horrendously stupid it makes you look, even if he thinks she had it coming.  The sheer audacity of how over-the-top it is makes it so wonderfully satisfying though.

[Felix Golden]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Felix Golden wrote...

But, its not really chaotic stupid if you really think about it, she talks about all these things you have done, you have punched her in the face in the past (depending on your play through, dont know which is "default" though)

The problem is that she's obviously trying to make you look bad. By punching her in the face you only manage to letting her achieve that goal, damaging your already weakened reputation in the process, hence, making shepard a by-the-book chaotic stupid.

Unfortunately I did notice that Bioware doesn't seem to be able to portray believable villany with a bit of depth since the times of Baldur's Gate (unless there was some in Jade Empire, that unfotunately I missed).

Your arguing from the base that Popular support is what you are after. and ontop of what everything else you do is. "Ok he punched reporter A that looks bad, but he also saved the refinery crew on planet C, saved everyone he could from the collectors on planet B, Saved a quarian ship from being destroyed in system Z."

See where im going? Even if he chooses to do some small evil acts, even public ones, he is still doing greater good things. Now im not saying that if you save 100 workers its ok to punch a woman now and again (lol) but in the public eye, she would be crying "but he hit me!" while hundreds of others are saying " he saved me!"

But thats all public support, all you care about for approval (at the moment i nthe story) is your team and your boss. People can cry all they want, but they can only do all that crying because you saved them from the impending doom.

[binaryemperor]

That is for the player to decide. If I want to knock her block off in a live interview, so be it. Quite frankly that action is obviously not a paragon action so it might as well be renegade.



What I find odd is that you pointed out this renegade action in particular, when in other ones you throw an unarmed person out a window, burn people to death, incite a drugged person to charge into their own death, and jab a welder into an unsuspecting person's back.



In addition the previous argument you agreed with basically went over every argument made beforehand, mind that the poster was simply treading on eggshells as to not upset you and send you on a "civil rampage", as I would like to say.



Ah well, no skin off mah nose.

[I Ryukage I]

[

Just_mike wrote...
This is what we've all been saying. Im glad you finally get it. Im happy for you.

This thread seems to get a response every 10 seconds lmao. But seriously, not trying to take sides, but from what i've read, everyone seems to be jumping down his throat rather than bring an actual discussion. I wouldn't consider one-line obscenities an actual discussion if I were debating with people in public. It would be idiotic. In the same token, Ab struck back in whatever tone everyone has been saying he was speaking in, you can't really be upset with him if you attacked him first.

[Abriael_CG]

Felix Golden wrote.
Your arguing from the base that Popular support is what you are after.

This doesn't really change the fact that you basically give the reporter a moral victory over you.
Also, that's my whole point. A believable villanious character would probably seek public support to further his goals instead of alienating it just for the sake of punching someone that made him angry.

That's my whole gripe with the Paragon/Renegade split actually. It's so extremely stereotyped that it makes me cringe...

binaryemperor wrote...
That is for the player to decide.
If I want to knock her block off in a live interview, so be it. Quite
frankly that action is obviously not a paragon action so it might as
well be renegade.

Eh, the problem that I previously illustrated is that the decision isn't really up to the player (unless he has previous knowledge of ME1 and in that case took the same course of action). You get an icon that tells you "you're going to take a renegade action" but the control you have on what that action will be is absolutely zero.

What I find odd is that you pointed out this
renegade action in particular, when in other ones you throw an unarmed
person out a window, burn people to death, incite a drugged person to
charge into their own death, and jab a welder into an unsuspecting
person's back..

I simply didn't see those.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 03 février 2010 - 09:23 .

[Maria Caliban]

binaryemperor wrote...

That is for the player to decide. If I want to knock her block off in a live interview, so be it. Quite frankly that action is obviously not a paragon action so it might as well be renegade.

What actually bothers me is that there are never any repercussions for any of your actions. Punching a reporter on air ought to be something people react to... but no.

[Felix Golden]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Felix Golden wrote.
Your arguing from the base that Popular support is what you are after.

This doesn't really change the fact that you basically give the reporter a moral victory over you.
Also, that's my whole point. A believable villanious character would probably seek public support to further his goals instead of alienating it just for the sake of punching someone that made him angry.

That's my whole gripe with the Paragon/Renegade split actually. It's so extremely stereotyped that it makes me cringe...

Renegade characters arnt villanious though...they are more akin to anti hero, the person who works outside of moral and social bounds, someone who doesnt care what people think of him so long as they are saved.

Its the difference between Superman and Batman, not Superman and Lex Luthor, if you would prefer that analogy.

[Nomcookie]

A renegade Shepard isn't really evil. He's more of the "act first, think later" kind. *punches reporter* Hmm… maybe I shouldn't have done that. Ah well.

[I Ryukage I]

Maria Caliban wrote...

What actually bothers me is that there are never any repercussions for any of your actions. Punching a reporter on air ought to be something people react to... but no.

Yeah I wish the world re-acted to whatever you were doing. Council (if you saved em) says keep a low profile, however this scenario, and a few others suggest that a decent-sized group of people should know Shepard is still alive, how in another case, react to Shepard's apperance if you become extremely renegade.

[binaryemperor]

Maria Caliban wrote...
What actually bothers me is that there are never any repercussions for any of your actions. Punching a reporter on air ought to be something people react to... but no.

Heh, that's the glory of being a dead spectre.
EDIT: who is a part of Cerberus. Shep could probably bomb the citadel and not feel a thing.

Modifié par binaryemperor, 03 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[talbainx]

Maria Caliban wrote...

binaryemperor wrote...

That is for the player to decide. If I want to knock her block off in a live interview, so be it. Quite frankly that action is obviously not a paragon action so it might as well be renegade.

What actually bothers me is that there are never any repercussions for any of your actions. Punching a reporter on air ought to be something people react to... but no.

Would you really like the see the galaxy doomed because someone clocked a reporter in the face? (One of the very lesser "evil" commited by renegade shepard)

I Ryukage I wrote...

Yeah I wish the world re-acted to
whatever you were doing. Council (if you saved em) says keep a low
profile, however this scenario, and a few others suggest that a
decent-sized group of people should know Shepard is still alive, how in
another case, react to Shepard's apperance if you become extremely
renegade.

There's a newsflash about the mixed response from the news of SHepards return already in game.

Modifié par talbainx, 03 février 2010 - 09:27 .

[Abriael_CG]

Felix Golden wrote...
Renegade characters arnt villanious though...they are more akin to anti hero, the person who works outside of moral and social bounds, someone who doesnt care what people think of him so long as they are saved.

Its the difference between Superman and Batman, not Superman and Lex Luthor, if you would prefer that analogy.

Mmmh maybe superman and Lobo, I doubt  Batman, even in his darkest moments, would really ever punch an unarmed woman in the face.
Not surprising that I love Batman, but i find Lobo quite sub-par, writing-wise...

talbainx wrote...
Would you really like the see the galaxy
doomed because someone clocked a reporter in the face? (One of the very
lesser "evil" commited by renegade shepard)

But the council doesn't believe to the reapers' threat, so they don't feel a "doomsday" danger incoming for the galaxy.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 03 février 2010 - 09:30 .

[Fredgtrer]

How has this thread gone on for so long