246 réponses à ce sujet

[Taiko Roshi]

After reading ALL of the replies, the biggest irony I have found is that for a large proportion of people who have posted on this thread saying that dialogue is good they have not bothered to read any of the posts aside from the first.



This is amusing considering most claim to like story driven games, but can not be bothered to follow the evolving discussion (read:story) in this thread. What stands out the most is the typical obnoxious response you usually get from FPS gamers telling me to go play FPS games. Priceless!



I don't rely see the point in reiterating what I have already written in regards to this feature as it seems most posters are incapable of following dialogue unless it is CGI driven. Well done fellow RPG gamers you have shown yourselves to be hypocrites of the highest order.



To those who took the time to actually read the posts, thank you. At least some people understand what RPG is all about. For me the lack of combat features in ME is killing the game.

[Medhia Nox]

Taiko Roshi -



Ever play a "real" RPG? I mean one where you're sitting around a table with your friends rolling dice and acting out a character? That's where these come from - and yes, they have a lot to do with combat, but ultimately, they're used to tell a co-operative story between a group of people.



That is what RPG's are "all about" -



Collecting loot, leveling, battle - all important aspects of the original RPGs, but they were all mechanical contrivances for fairness. In a computer game - the computer runs all the minutae, great yeah? Not so much - video game RPGs pale in comparison to the real thing (since you're discussion what you can, and cannot do, in real life) because you have exactly zero limitations in your imagination - and oppressive amounts in a computer program.



When I tell you that "real" RPGs are about discussing things like the nature of the genophage - forming a belief system around that discussion (Like: Salarians bad!) and then, going out with your band of adventurers and doing something about it - I assure you, the "discussion" part is the more involved.



Incidently - that discussion was one of my favorite parts of the game so far.



My only hope is that future RPGs allow me to alter the storyline more through dialogue options than through combat - combat, I can play in an RTS, FPS, or even RPG (and combat IS a part of all RPGs) - but the computer has a long way to go before the immaterial aspects (character developement/dynamic worlds/storytelling) catch up to the mechanical aspects (combat/skills/leveling/gear)

[Taiko Roshi]

When I tell you that "real" RPGs are about discussing things like the nature of the genophage - forming a belief system around that discussion (Like: Salarians bad!) and then, going out with your band of adventurers and doing something about it - I assure you, the "discussion" part is the more involved.

I have no problem with this aspect of the game. BW did it well in BG, KoTOR, NWN, DA:O etc. However, with ME 2 it is overbalanced to the point where "doing something about it" takes up only a very small proportion of the overall gameplay. If you even compare ME1 to ME2, ME2 is seriously over-bloated with cutscenes. In ME 1 I never had to put my controller down due to the length and number of cut-scenes, in ME 2 I fight for a very very short period of time, maybe 1-2 minutes if that, then its another cut-scene, followed by another cut-scene rinse repeat throughout the entire game. ME 1 was never that bad.


I to also found the genophage discussion the most intriguing, followed by the discussion with Tali and the discussion with Legion. In fact the good Professor is one of my favorite characters. I am not against dialogue and cut-scenes in a RPG. If people bothered to follow the discussion then they would understand that. My problem is that I think that BW have overdone it in ME 2 which killed the game for me.

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 03 février 2010 - 09:48 .

[K2daE]

you do know this is an RPG right?

[Taiko Roshi]

K2daE wrote...

you do know this is an RPG right?

You do know how to read posts and follow a dialogue right? For a "RPG" gamer it seems you have a FPS mentality when it comes to posting.

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 03 février 2010 - 09:50 .

[Pinnatus]

I read this thread, all the posts in it and the responses from the OP.



I have only this to say: Your tastes in games are not wrong, Taiko. However, they will not and should not be fulfilled by a game like Mass Effect 2.



Your insistence on denigrating anyone who seems to actually LIKE Mass Effect 2 for the reasons you don't doesn't do you any favors.



I suggest that this is not your game, and further point out that carping about it not being what you wanted is not going to change the game, the things that other people like about it, or your preferences for a gaming experience. Which essentially means:



This is not the game for you. There are a multitude of other games which deliver the experience you desire, and they are not hard to find, as they dominate the console market, and to a large extent the PC market. I hope you find a title you enjoy more.

[Malanek]

All I would like changed in this reagrd is that the key to skip the current dialogue is different from the key that selects the next dialogue and that you could skip the entire first scene.

[Taiko Roshi]

I suggest that this is not your game, and further point out that carping about it not being what you wanted is not going to change the game, the things that other people like about it, or your preferences for a gaming experience.

Quite on the contrary. I paid for the game and I played it. I am offering some constructive criticism and feedback on why I felt that while the game was good it was not great. In doing so I have not only compared it to other BW games, but also my experience with ME 1. I am just as entitled to voice my concerns over the direction and the development of this game as anyone else is.

If reading the constructive criticism of fellow ME gamers disturbs you then this thread is not for you. I suggest you take your own advice and move onto another thread which praises BW for making ME 2 what it is. You will not find that praise here. Only a rational discussion on what changes for good and bad BW has made with ME 2, and my personal opinions on these changes.

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 03 février 2010 - 09:58 .

[Veex]

I've never played a BioWare game where combat seems to be the main focus. It always feels, in my opinion, to be an addition to the story and simply the avenue of getting from one critical story point to the next.

[Skemte]

Taiko Roshi wrote...

I am comparing this game to the previous RPG games made by BW and ME 2 does not fit your definition by a long shot.

.... Uhh what one specifically?  Because Mass Effect 1, Dragon Age Origins, Knights of the Old Republic literally has dialogue and cutscenes regurgitating from their mouth..  I guess you could say there is too many cutscenes when opposed to Mass Effect 1 in which you drove around through endless desert worlds of boredom.. 

[Pinnatus]

Sorry, Taiko, but your "constructive criticism" is really just thinly veiled "You don't agree with me and therefore you have bad taste". You don't have to agree, but everything you've offered has been the opposite of constructive, particularly when faced with people whose experiences diametrically oppose yours.



You don't like ME2's focus on dialogue. We get that. You would like to see more combat and prefer that the game's storytelling elements focus more on that. We also get that.



It doesn't change the fact that the game isn't like that, and ME1 wasn't either. You're complaining (nothing you've said could be construed as "constructive", in my opinion) about the game not delivering an experience it was never intended to.



Plenty of problems with ME2, but this isn't one.

[Taiko Roshi]

Pinnatus wrote...

Sorry, Taiko, but your "constructive criticism" is really just thinly veiled "You don't agree with me and therefore you have bad taste". You don't have to agree, but everything you've offered has been the opposite of constructive, particularly when faced with people whose experiences diametrically oppose yours.

You don't like ME2's focus on dialogue. We get that. You would like to see more combat and prefer that the game's storytelling elements focus more on that. We also get that.

It doesn't change the fact that the game isn't like that, and ME1 wasn't either. You're complaining (nothing you've said could be construed as "constructive", in my opinion) about the game not delivering an experience it was never intended to.

Plenty of problems with ME2, but this isn't one.

Again, another "rpg" gamer who can not be bothered to read the posts and follow the discussions. I am not going to reiterate what I have already written three times just because you are too lazy to follow the dialogue in this thread. It is very amusing that you choose to denigrate me for something I am not doing whilst being such a condescending sanctimonious child yourself. Rather than post a knee-jerk reply, something that you have done in the last two post, read the entire thread and DO NOT put words that I have not written in my mouth. If you are not mature enough to comprehend what constructive criticism is then by all means return to your threads lauding BW for ME 2.

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 03 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[Sabre120]

If you want action and no story go play Halo, I have had enough of your snide insinuations!

[Freestorm Skinn]

Four pages of posts and nobody remembers METAL GEAR SOLID 4: GUNS OF THE PATRIOTS, with the 20-minute-long cutscenes that you can't interact with, and loaded with the most pompous, pretentious and syntactically awkward speeches ever to be translated from Japanese?



Poor Jennifer Hale was stuck with the worst, most difficult-to-sound-convincing-in speeches any actor could ever be unlucky enough to be given.

[Jackal904]

This is Mass Effect. A huge part of it is the cinematic cutscenes and the immersive dialogue. Go play Gears of War if you just want a game with no depth and characters that act like cavemen.

[Freestorm Skinn]

I love METAL GEAR, but my God, those speeches...

I keep assuming they sound more grand and epic in Japanese.

[cpip]

Taiko Roshi wrote...

Not at all. If you want I will be happy to provide the statistics that show that the cut-scenes and dialogues are longer than the combat component of this game. The bulk of the dialogue with each character is geared towards romance, depending of the sex of the PC.

Well, then: I would like to see the actual statistics.  Not merely ballpark figures, such as "4/5 of the game is talking" -- I want actual time, showing discussions and samples, and a breakdown of the dialogue by character that is indeed geared towards romance.  Preferably by gender.

If you're happy to provide, I'm happy to review them.

[haberman13]

Removing the dialogue from ME2 would leave it as a shabby version of GoW.



If anything keep the dialogue, and add back the other RPG stuff from ME1 with the great combat from ME2 and you've got a true winner.

[FFLB]

I have to ask, but which class are you playing as? Combat goes by a whole lot faster for certain classes than others. If you're playing as Soldier, it makes sense that you don't think there's enough combat. I played with an Adept first and combat took me about 10-15 minutes on average to finish one firefight. As a Soldier now, I just go in and tear them apart within the span of a few minutes. Like DA:O, depending on your class, combat will be a breeze or a pain. If the current combat isn't tough enough, pick a different class and up the difficulty. You may enjoy it more then.



Certain parts of the game could've used more combat due to the nature of those encounters, but I enjoy how not every mission ends up being a firefight. Also, did you play Pinnacle Station? Did you like it? I hated playing it. No story. Barely any dialogue. All combat... restricted by time.



Also, I prefer the cut-scenes to having to backtrack to end a mission.

[mmmu]

Give more cutscenes, more dialogue, more social interaction with the cost of even less combat and I am even happier than I am now. Bioware is dialogue. That's why Bioware is the best.

[artiss68w]

Have you tried playing on insanity with different classes? You don't get any extra skirmishes, but the combat will last longer.



BTW, don't see how DA:O was a perfect balance for you. There were a ton of fights, but that game was dialogue heavy.

[Endurance_117]

mmmu wrote...

Give more cutscenes, more dialogue, more social interaction with the cost of even less combat and I am even happier than I am now. Bioware is dialogue. That's why Bioware is the best.

Less Combat? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 

[Faust1979]

 to the OP have you played the first game or other bioware games? Mass Effect was meant to be an action RPG with strong storylines and lots of dialogue to tell the story. It's an RPG not just a straight up shooter

[Eazy_Ali]

Mass Effect has been and hopefully will always be about great dialog and cinematic story telling. If you were expecting something else you werte playi8ng the wrong game. You want bloated cutscenes play Metal Gear Solid.